Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869

2011-11-06 Thread James Baxter
Hi Melanie,

I was lucky enough to get a dinner plate sized 895 gram slice of NWA 869 from 
Blaine Reed back in 2008. I asked him and the mass he cut to produce it weighed 
84 pounds, just short of 40kg. Not sure if anyone out there knows of a larger 
one. The Metoritical Bulletin just says individual masses to >20kg.

Best,
Jim Baxter
- Original Message -
From: "Melanie Matthews" 
To: "MeteoriteList" 
Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 5:28:12 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869

How big is/was the largest NWA869 mass found? 

 
---
-Melanie "MetMel" - avid meteorite collector/enthusiast from Canada! 
IMCA#: 2975
eBay: metmel2775


I eat, sleep and breath meteorites 24/7.

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Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869

2011-11-04 Thread Melanie Matthews
How big is/was the largest NWA869 mass found? 

 
---
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IMCA#: 2975
eBay: metmel2775


I eat, sleep and breath meteorites 24/7.

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Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869

2011-11-04 Thread MexicoDoug
Just saw Zelimir's informative post from yesterday, if that is what he 
does for 869, he must have the world's best megadocumebnted collection 
;-), like we all aspire.


I need a correction to what I just posted a few minutes ago:

I gave the amount lost to ablation in the prior post, the correct 
numbers for the amount dropped as meteorites are as follws and Dean 
Bessey's estimate for NWA 869 of 7 tons of rocks in the strewn field 
and fits just right for the diameters/radii given in the paper and by 
John,


diameter (meters)max recoverable mass
0.1 0.14kg
0.3 3.8 
0.5 18  
1.0 141 
1.5 477 
2.0  1.1ton
2.5  2.2
3.0  3.8
3.5  6.1
4.0  9.0
4.5  13 
5.0  18 

Nice to keep these numbers in mind when we think about our well cared 
for boxes of space chocolates!  If NWA 869 were a limited fall the 
prices would have sent it right back to the cosmos ... something to 
think about.  Nice to think about next time you see your 
wife/husband/boy/girlfriend!


Best
Doug



-Original Message-
From: MexicoDoug 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Fri, Nov 4, 2011 1:58 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869


Yes Mel, John's 4-5 meters in diameter statement corresponds to the
average 2 meter radius in the reference.  FYI, a typical entering
meteoroid that experiences a loss of 92.5% (the factor of its material
ton ablation as concluded by the authors) would drop this much material
for our collections:

diameter (meters)max recoverable mass
0.12 kg
0.350
0.5 200
1.0 1.7 ton
1.5 5.9
2.014
2.527
3.047
3.575
4.0  112
4.5  159
5.0   218

Of course the factor of 92.5% loss will vary depending on the angle it
enters, speed, composition and integrity, as well as the initial size
and shape, so they are all gross estimates.

Kindest wishes
Doufg



-Original Message-
From: Melanie Matthews 
To: MexicoDoug ; meteorite-list

Sent: Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:42 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869


Found this:


"Scientists figure the meteoroid that was blasted off the  parent body
was maybe
4 to 5 meters in diameter before atmospheric entry. Even  with ablation
loss of
90 to 95% about 7 tons dropped on the Sahara Desert."

http://www.meteorite-times.com/micro-visions/nwa-869-inclusions/


 
---
-Melanie "MetMel" - avid meteorite collector/enthusiast from Canada!
IMCA#: 2975
eBay: metmel2775


I eat, sleep and breath meteorites 24/7.


- Original Message -
From: MexicoDoug 
To: miss_meteor...@yahoo.ca; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Cc:
Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 1:03:47 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869

PS

Referencing the same article that considered the free floating for 4-5
million
year 869-parent meteoroid, also commented that the age of some of the
regolith
soil/glue that formed the fantastically brecciated meteoroid of our
envy had
itself exposure time of as long as 16 million years:

"Assuming that 4 Ma is the time of transit irradiation, several
lithologies have
been preirradiated up to 16 Ma in the parent body regolith."


-Original Message-
From: MexicoDoug 
To: miss_meteorite ; meteorite-list

Sent: Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:49 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869


NWA 869 represents an L chondritic regolith breccia containing
preirradiated components.  The meteoroid had an initial radius of about
2 m with a mass of about 110 metric tons. The transit time to Earth was
about 4-5 Ma. Large variations of shielding depths between samples
indicate that break-up of the meteoroid must have occured high in
atmosphere. This would also explain the large inferred ablation loss,
which is typical for large chondrite showers.

Ref:

"The L3-6 Regolith Breccia Northwest Africa 869: Petrology, Noble
Gases, and Cosmogenic Radionuclides"
Metzler, K.; Ott, U.; Welten, K. C.; Caffee, M. W.; Franke, L.
39th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference, (Lunar and Planetary
Science XXXIX), held March 10-14, 2008 in League City, Texas.
LPI Contribution No. 1391., p.1120
Publication Date: 03/2008

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/1120.pdf



-Original Message-
From: Melanie Matthews 
To: MeteoriteList 
Sent: Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:10 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869


Hi list,

Are there any estimates in how long ago this wonderful meteorite fell
to Earth,
and how large it might have been before it entered the atmosphere? It
must have
been a massive meteoroid, much larger than the one that produced the
Buzzard
Coulees.

 
---
-Melanie "MetMel" - avid meteorite collector/enthusia

Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869

2011-11-04 Thread MexicoDoug

Yes Mel, John's 4-5 meters in diameter statement corresponds to the
average 2 meter radius in the reference.  FYI, a typical entering
meteoroid that experiences a loss of 92.5% (the factor of its material
ton ablation as concluded by the authors) would drop this much material
for our collections:

diameter (meters)max recoverable mass
0.12 kg
0.350
0.5 200
1.0 1.7 ton
1.5 5.9
2.014
2.527
3.047
3.575
4.0  112
4.5  159
5.0   218

Of course the factor of 92.5% loss will vary depending on the angle it
enters, speed, composition and integrity, as well as the initial size
and shape, so they are all gross estimates.

Kindest wishes
Doufg



-Original Message-
From: Melanie Matthews 
To: MexicoDoug ; meteorite-list 


Sent: Fri, Nov 4, 2011 12:42 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869


Found this:


"Scientists figure the meteoroid that was blasted off the  parent body 
was maybe
4 to 5 meters in diameter before atmospheric entry. Even  with ablation 
loss of

90 to 95% about 7 tons dropped on the Sahara Desert."

http://www.meteorite-times.com/micro-visions/nwa-869-inclusions/


 
---
-Melanie "MetMel" - avid meteorite collector/enthusiast from Canada!
IMCA#: 2975
eBay: metmel2775


I eat, sleep and breath meteorites 24/7.


- Original Message -
From: MexicoDoug 
To: miss_meteor...@yahoo.ca; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Cc:
Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 1:03:47 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869

PS

Referencing the same article that considered the free floating for 4-5 
million
year 869-parent meteoroid, also commented that the age of some of the 
regolith
soil/glue that formed the fantastically brecciated meteoroid of our 
envy had

itself exposure time of as long as 16 million years:

"Assuming that 4 Ma is the time of transit irradiation, several 
lithologies have

been preirradiated up to 16 Ma in the parent body regolith."


-Original Message-
From: MexicoDoug 
To: miss_meteorite ; meteorite-list

Sent: Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:49 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869


NWA 869 represents an L chondritic regolith breccia containing
preirradiated components.  The meteoroid had an initial radius of about
2 m with a mass of about 110 metric tons. The transit time to Earth was
about 4-5 Ma. Large variations of shielding depths between samples
indicate that break-up of the meteoroid must have occured high in
atmosphere. This would also explain the large inferred ablation loss,
which is typical for large chondrite showers.

Ref:

"The L3-6 Regolith Breccia Northwest Africa 869: Petrology, Noble
Gases, and Cosmogenic Radionuclides"
Metzler, K.; Ott, U.; Welten, K. C.; Caffee, M. W.; Franke, L.
39th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference, (Lunar and Planetary
Science XXXIX), held March 10-14, 2008 in League City, Texas.
LPI Contribution No. 1391., p.1120
Publication Date: 03/2008

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/1120.pdf



-Original Message-
From: Melanie Matthews 
To: MeteoriteList 
Sent: Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:10 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869


Hi list,

Are there any estimates in how long ago this wonderful meteorite fell
to Earth,
and how large it might have been before it entered the atmosphere? It
must have
been a massive meteoroid, much larger than the one that produced the
Buzzard
Coulees.

 
---
-Melanie "MetMel" - avid meteorite collector/enthusiast from Canada!
IMCA#: 2975
eBay: metmel2775


I eat, sleep and breath meteorites 24/7.
__
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
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Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869

2011-11-04 Thread Melanie Matthews
Found this: 


"Scientists figure the meteoroid that was blasted off the  parent body was 
maybe 4 to 5 meters in diameter before atmospheric entry. Even  with ablation 
loss of 90 to 95% about 7 tons dropped on the Sahara Desert." 

http://www.meteorite-times.com/micro-visions/nwa-869-inclusions/


 
---
-Melanie "MetMel" - avid meteorite collector/enthusiast from Canada! 
IMCA#: 2975
eBay: metmel2775


I eat, sleep and breath meteorites 24/7.


- Original Message -
From: MexicoDoug 
To: miss_meteor...@yahoo.ca; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Cc: 
Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 1:03:47 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869

PS

Referencing the same article that considered the free floating for 4-5 million 
year 869-parent meteoroid, also commented that the age of some of the regolith 
soil/glue that formed the fantastically brecciated meteoroid of our envy had 
itself exposure time of as long as 16 million years:

"Assuming that 4 Ma is the time of transit irradiation, several lithologies 
have been preirradiated up to 16 Ma in the parent body regolith."


-Original Message-
From: MexicoDoug 
To: miss_meteorite ; meteorite-list 

Sent: Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:49 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869


NWA 869 represents an L chondritic regolith breccia containing
preirradiated components.  The meteoroid had an initial radius of about
2 m with a mass of about 110 metric tons. The transit time to Earth was
about 4-5 Ma. Large variations of shielding depths between samples
indicate that break-up of the meteoroid must have occured high in
atmosphere. This would also explain the large inferred ablation loss,
which is typical for large chondrite showers.

Ref:

"The L3-6 Regolith Breccia Northwest Africa 869: Petrology, Noble
Gases, and Cosmogenic Radionuclides"
Metzler, K.; Ott, U.; Welten, K. C.; Caffee, M. W.; Franke, L.
39th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference, (Lunar and Planetary
Science XXXIX), held March 10-14, 2008 in League City, Texas.
LPI Contribution No. 1391., p.1120
Publication Date: 03/2008

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/1120.pdf



-Original Message-
From: Melanie Matthews 
To: MeteoriteList 
Sent: Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:10 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869


Hi list,

Are there any estimates in how long ago this wonderful meteorite fell
to Earth,
and how large it might have been before it entered the atmosphere? It
must have
been a massive meteoroid, much larger than the one that produced the
Buzzard
Coulees.

 
---
-Melanie "MetMel" - avid meteorite collector/enthusiast from Canada!
IMCA#: 2975
eBay: metmel2775


I eat, sleep and breath meteorites 24/7.
__
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869

2011-11-04 Thread Dan Furlan
NWA 869 is a very sexy meteorite, I would marry it if i could.
Daniel Furlan
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Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869

2011-11-04 Thread Dan Furlan
NWA 869 is a very sexy meteorite.. i would marry it if i could.
Daniel Furlan
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Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869

2011-11-04 Thread Zelimir . Gabelica

Hi Melanie, Doug, list,

Doug, your reference is very appropriate.

In cataloging my collection, in some specific cases, when I feel the  
meteorite I am describing is important, I use to add a short  
introduction summarizing its historical and scientific background.


Here is my write-up for NWA 869, hoping it be of help to Melanie:

--

NWA 869 (Algeria, L3-6 rbr)(S3W1), found 2000, tkw: many++@7+ tons.

History and scientific significance.

It appears quite clear that meteorite collectors in Northwest Africa  
have discovered a large L chondrite strewnfield at an undisclosed  
location, most probably around Tindouf, Algeria. Thousands of stones  
has been sold under the name NWA 869 in the market places of Morocco  
and around the world, totaling about 7+ metric tons (April 2008,  
confirmed by J. Kashuba in: “Meteorite Times, Micro Visions”, March  
2010), thereby making it one of the largest tkw’s to come out of NWA.


The corresponding meteorid was supposed weighing about 110 tons (4+m  
in diameter), suggesting important ablation and fragmentation (Metzler  
et al., LPS, 2008; Welten et al., LPS Conf. abstract, 2010, pp 2611).

Individual masses are known to range from <1 g to >20 kg.

This meteorite was classified a number of times by different  
institutions (e.g. L4, that became later L5 –UCLA, also L3.9-6 or L6…  
brecciated or not), before the above final classification by A. Rubin.


It is certain that NWA 869 is paired with other NWA meteorites  
although no systematic survey has been done.
Among many examples cited are NWA 787, NWA 900, SAH 02500 (“Wadi  
Mellene”), possibly also “AC-001”(see the 2 samples named “NWA-aaa”  
below still under investigation since its find in 2000) and likely  
many, many more.
One other famous example is NWA 904 (L5 br, also S3 W1), of which the  
numerous pics reported in MetBull database are strangely similar to  
those of NWA 869, further confirming the similarity of the samples of  
both meteorites in this collection .


It is also possible that some stones sold as NWA 869 are not part of  
the same fall, although dealers are confident that most of the known  
masses are sufficiently distinctive from other NWA meteorites in terms  
of surface and internal appearance, so that the error rate should be  
fairly low.


Although the source of the NWA 869 samples of this collection is  
reliable (purchase by "MV" in a Moroccan “selected reliable place”  
where it has been confirmed that the origin is Algeria, just as for  
NWA 904 (MV, personal communication), it is suggested (MetBull) that  
scientists are advised to confirm the classification of any specimens  
they obtain before publishing results under this name.


Much info was published regarding the composition of that strange and  
very attractive meteorite.
When cut and polished, the matrix is full of color and chondrules of  
all size, some armored.  Literature reports 74% gray matrix, 20% light  
tan (oxide staining) texture (type 5/6 clasts), 4% shock-darkened  
sulfide-impregnated matrix, 1% type 3 clasts, <1% achondritic textured  
clasts.
J. Kashuba (Met. Times, 03/ 2010) suggests it being a regolith  
(coarse) breccia (asteroid soil) with chunks > 5.5 cm (Kashuba’s  
picture in above reference; see also the extraordinary dual lithology  
of the 27.30 g sample described below), also containing rare foreign  
carbonaceous fragments.
Some pieces also display large metal grains and significant troilite  
domains (35.42 g sample below).


The terrestrial age (4.4 ± 0.7 ky) is consistent with the low degree  
of weathering, W1.
Since the abundance of regolith breccias among L-chondrites is only  
~3% [Welten et al., 2010)], NWA 869 represents a rather unique and  
large sample of the lithified regolith of the L-chondrite parent  
body

-

Best wishes,

Zelimir



MexicoDoug  a écrit :

NWA 869 represents an L chondritic regolith breccia containing  
preirradiated components.  The meteoroid had an initial radius of  
about 2 m with a mass of about 110 metric tons. The transit time to  
Earth was about 4-5 Ma. Large variations of shielding depths between  
samples indicate that break-up of the meteoroid must have occured  
high in atmosphere. This would also explain the large inferred  
ablation loss, which is typical for large chondrite showers.


Ref:

"The L3-6 Regolith Breccia Northwest Africa 869: Petrology, Noble  
Gases, and Cosmogenic Radionuclides"

Metzler, K.; Ott, U.; Welten, K. C.; Caffee, M. W.; Franke, L.
39th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference, (Lunar and Planetary  
Science XXXIX), held March 10-14, 2008 in League City, Texas.

LPI Contribution No. 1391., p.1120
Publication Date: 03/2008

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/1120.pdf



-Original Message-
From: Melanie Matthews 
To: MeteoriteList 
Sent: Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:10 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869


Hi list,

Are the

Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869

2011-11-04 Thread MexicoDoug

PS

Referencing the same article that considered the free floating for 4-5 
million year 869-parent meteoroid, also commented that the age of some 
of the regolith soil/glue that formed the fantastically brecciated 
meteoroid of our envy had itself exposure time of as long as 16 million 
years:


"Assuming that 4 Ma is the time of transit irradiation, several 
lithologies have been preirradiated up to 16 Ma in the parent body 
regolith."



-Original Message-
From: MexicoDoug 
To: miss_meteorite ; meteorite-list 


Sent: Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:49 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869


NWA 869 represents an L chondritic regolith breccia containing
preirradiated components.  The meteoroid had an initial radius of about
2 m with a mass of about 110 metric tons. The transit time to Earth was
about 4-5 Ma. Large variations of shielding depths between samples
indicate that break-up of the meteoroid must have occured high in
atmosphere. This would also explain the large inferred ablation loss,
which is typical for large chondrite showers.

Ref:

"The L3-6 Regolith Breccia Northwest Africa 869: Petrology, Noble
Gases, and Cosmogenic Radionuclides"
Metzler, K.; Ott, U.; Welten, K. C.; Caffee, M. W.; Franke, L.
39th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference, (Lunar and Planetary
Science XXXIX), held March 10-14, 2008 in League City, Texas.
LPI Contribution No. 1391., p.1120
Publication Date: 03/2008

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/1120.pdf



-Original Message-
From: Melanie Matthews 
To: MeteoriteList 
Sent: Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:10 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869


Hi list,

Are there any estimates in how long ago this wonderful meteorite fell
to Earth,
and how large it might have been before it entered the atmosphere? It
must have
been a massive meteoroid, much larger than the one that produced the
Buzzard
Coulees.

 
---
-Melanie "MetMel" - avid meteorite collector/enthusiast from Canada!
IMCA#: 2975
eBay: metmel2775


I eat, sleep and breath meteorites 24/7.
__
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
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Re: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869

2011-11-04 Thread MexicoDoug
NWA 869 represents an L chondritic regolith breccia containing 
preirradiated components.  The meteoroid had an initial radius of about 
2 m with a mass of about 110 metric tons. The transit time to Earth was 
about 4-5 Ma. Large variations of shielding depths between samples 
indicate that break-up of the meteoroid must have occured high in 
atmosphere. This would also explain the large inferred ablation loss, 
which is typical for large chondrite showers.


Ref:

"The L3-6 Regolith Breccia Northwest Africa 869: Petrology, Noble 
Gases, and Cosmogenic Radionuclides"

Metzler, K.; Ott, U.; Welten, K. C.; Caffee, M. W.; Franke, L.
39th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference, (Lunar and Planetary 
Science XXXIX), held March 10-14, 2008 in League City, Texas.

LPI Contribution No. 1391., p.1120
Publication Date: 03/2008

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/1120.pdf



-Original Message-
From: Melanie Matthews 
To: MeteoriteList 
Sent: Fri, Nov 4, 2011 2:10 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869


Hi list,

Are there any estimates in how long ago this wonderful meteorite fell 
to Earth,
and how large it might have been before it entered the atmosphere? It 
must have
been a massive meteoroid, much larger than the one that produced the 
Buzzard

Coulees.

 
---
-Melanie "MetMel" - avid meteorite collector/enthusiast from Canada!
IMCA#: 2975
eBay: metmel2775


I eat, sleep and breath meteorites 24/7.
__
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http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html

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[meteorite-list] Question about NWA 869

2011-11-03 Thread Melanie Matthews
Hi list, 

Are there any estimates in how long ago this wonderful meteorite fell to Earth, 
and how large it might have been before it entered the atmosphere? It must have 
been a massive meteoroid, much larger than the one that produced the Buzzard 
Coulees. 

 
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-Melanie "MetMel" - avid meteorite collector/enthusiast from Canada! 
IMCA#: 2975
eBay: metmel2775


I eat, sleep and breath meteorites 24/7.
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