Re: [meteorite-list] Solar flares (ot) ? or are ions meteorites?
Hi, List, On the relative strength of solar flares, take a look at: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap120315.html In the first photo, you can see that the Vela Pulsar is (as usual) the brightest gamma ray source in the Galaxy. In the second photo, the March 7, 2012 flare from our little Sun outshines it by a factor of almost 100-fold. From the Fermi Gamma-ray Space Telescope. Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: c...@alumni.caltech.edu; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Solar flares (ot) ? or are ions meteorites? Well, if we are talking billions and billions of years, life has certainly taken a few good ones on the chin during that time, and robust as it seems to be, it acts as a unified being, just changing form, where we species are all just incidental cogs climbing a particular hill in a particular moment ... as we see from out extinction. The generalization of 'weak solar flares to do any damage' is a useful tool, but in the real world out there multiplied by billions and billions of years, it's easy to fall into a statistical trap ... Earth represents about one part in 300,000,000,000,000,000,000 of the area at 1 AU. What is the highest intensity solar flare cross sectional area of a powerful finger? Probably very big and delocalized, but if we are talking about the Sun delivering a real, narrow earth-sized punch once every ten years, in 10 billion years, no catastrophic flare impact is likely - another useful tool to think about to better get a handle on this. and billions and billions ... shouldn't be taken too the bit too far IMO. A once in a billion year event can certainly cripple the biosphere and send it in a new direction. Take gamma ray bursts, the bigger brother of solar flares from distant, more powerful sources, which as Chris implies,might be detrimental vs. our Sun's relative burst flux, ... the gamma proton storms realistically could score a direct hit on Earth every billion years and thus are interesting to consider side-by-side or as in some case, alternative, with asteroid impact extinction theories. If a gamma storm hits, everyone flying above 30,000 feet gets to automatically becomes hulky, but the problem isn't confined to the stratosphere. The atmospheric overload would likely initiate a chain of reactions wiping out the ozone layers and take out many species not protected enough or overly sensitive in the ensuing time. Not only that, it would get ... paradoxically dark and acidic and global warming would be history as the surface hit a low temperature. It is quite possible, if not probable, that at least one extinction even was punctuated with a gamma storm like this, which rivaled any doomsday asteroid scenario by playing with similar large scale climate and radiation changes. Back to the billions of years of life vs. the solar flare. I really don't have time to go skiing with some magnetic poles to Antarctica, but I sure as heck wouldn't want to be there while this 'deflection' was in progress ... especially on a big-ozone hole year! Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Chris Peterson c...@alumni.caltech.edu To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:19 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Solar flares (ot) ? or are ions meteorites? Our Sun isn't active enough to produce flares large enough to dangerously irradiate the Earth. If it were, given hundreds of millions of years of land-based life, we almost certainly wouldn't be here. Keep in mind that those CMEs that look so impressive in the videos produce a particle density at the Earth that represents a harder vacuum than can be achieved in a lab, and what's left is effectively blocked by our magnetic field and atmosphere. Other stars are more active, and ours may become so billions of years from now. But at the moment, we're safe (assuming we can recover from having our power grids or satellites knocked out... which are very possible consequences of flares that we know the Sun can produce). Chris *** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com On 3/14/2012 10:58 AM, Steve Dunklee wrote: What level of flare would cause death on earth from radiation and is it possible? like just the flare going in the wrong direction. cheers Steve __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Solar flares (ot) ? or are ions meteorites?
But in terms of absolute energy reaching the Earth, all of the sources are very small. Chris *** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com On 3/15/2012 2:07 PM, Sterling K. Webb wrote: Hi, List, On the relative strength of solar flares, take a look at: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap120315.html In the first photo, you can see that the Vela Pulsar is (as usual) the brightest gamma ray source in the Galaxy. In the second photo, the March 7, 2012 flare from our little Sun outshines it by a factor of almost 100-fold. From the Fermi Gamma-ray Space Telescope. Sterling K. Webb __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Solar flares (ot) ? or are ions meteorites?
What level of flare would cause death on earth from radiation and is it possible? like just the flare going in the wrong direction. cheers Steve __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Solar flares (ot) ? or are ions meteorites?
Our Sun isn't active enough to produce flares large enough to dangerously irradiate the Earth. If it were, given hundreds of millions of years of land-based life, we almost certainly wouldn't be here. Keep in mind that those CMEs that look so impressive in the videos produce a particle density at the Earth that represents a harder vacuum than can be achieved in a lab, and what's left is effectively blocked by our magnetic field and atmosphere. Other stars are more active, and ours may become so billions of years from now. But at the moment, we're safe (assuming we can recover from having our power grids or satellites knocked out... which are very possible consequences of flares that we know the Sun can produce). Chris *** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com On 3/14/2012 10:58 AM, Steve Dunklee wrote: What level of flare would cause death on earth from radiation and is it possible? like just the flare going in the wrong direction. cheers Steve __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Solar flares (ot) ? or are ions meteorites?
Well, if we are talking billions and billions of years, life has certainly taken a few good ones on the chin during that time, and robust as it seems to be, it acts as a unified being, just changing form, where we species are all just incidental cogs climbing a particular hill in a particular moment ... as we see from out extinction. The generalization of 'weak solar flares to do any damage' is a useful tool, but in the real world out there multiplied by billions and billions of years, it's easy to fall into a statistical trap ... Earth represents about one part in 300,000,000,000,000,000,000 of the area at 1 AU. What is the highest intensity solar flare cross sectional area of a powerful finger? Probably very big and delocalized, but if we are talking about the Sun delivering a real, narrow earth-sized punch once every ten years, in 10 billion years, no catastrophic flare impact is likely - another useful tool to think about to better get a handle on this. and billions and billions ... shouldn't be taken too the bit too far IMO. A once in a billion year event can certainly cripple the biosphere and send it in a new direction. Take gamma ray bursts, the bigger brother of solar flares from distant, more powerful sources, which as Chris implies,might be detrimental vs. our Sun's relative burst flux, ... the gamma proton storms realistically could score a direct hit on Earth every billion years and thus are interesting to consider side-by-side or as in some case, alternative, with asteroid impact extinction theories. If a gamma storm hits, everyone flying above 30,000 feet gets to automatically becomes hulky, but the problem isn't confined to the stratosphere. The atmospheric overload would likely initiate a chain of reactions wiping out the ozone layers and take out many species not protected enough or overly sensitive in the ensuing time. Not only that, it would get ... paradoxically dark and acidic and global warming would be history as the surface hit a low temperature. It is quite possible, if not probable, that at least one extinction even was punctuated with a gamma storm like this, which rivaled any doomsday asteroid scenario by playing with similar large scale climate and radiation changes. Back to the billions of years of life vs. the solar flare. I really don't have time to go skiing with some magnetic poles to Antarctica, but I sure as heck wouldn't want to be there while this 'deflection' was in progress ... especially on a big-ozone hole year! Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Chris Peterson c...@alumni.caltech.edu To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, Mar 14, 2012 1:19 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Solar flares (ot) ? or are ions meteorites? Our Sun isn't active enough to produce flares large enough to dangerously irradiate the Earth. If it were, given hundreds of millions of years of land-based life, we almost certainly wouldn't be here. Keep in mind that those CMEs that look so impressive in the videos produce a particle density at the Earth that represents a harder vacuum than can be achieved in a lab, and what's left is effectively blocked by our magnetic field and atmosphere. Other stars are more active, and ours may become so billions of years from now. But at the moment, we're safe (assuming we can recover from having our power grids or satellites knocked out... which are very possible consequences of flares that we know the Sun can produce). Chris *** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com On 3/14/2012 10:58 AM, Steve Dunklee wrote: What level of flare would cause death on earth from radiation and is it possible? like just the flare going in the wrong direction. cheers Steve __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
