Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial Breccia Being Offered Up As Lunar// Fake KREEP

2017-11-27 Thread Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list 
Adam I agree with you fully. But haven’t you learned after decades that eBay 
doesn’t give a rat’s ass about fraud? They make money on sales. All sales, even 
scams. They will never police the site. 

Michael Farmer

> On Nov 27, 2017, at 9:55 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yes, counterfeits and fakes are hardly anything new.  Some counterfeit 
> Chinese made medications sold in the U.S. market through national chain 
> stores put my mother-in-law in the hospital for several weeks and could have 
> resulted in her death.  How about counterfeit batteries that blow up in your 
> face while talking on a cell phone?  How about sawdust in your baby formula 
> or rat turds ground into your dog's food?
> 
> I remember having to write checks to acquire meteorites from a handful of 
> dealers a few decades ago.  I had no concerns whatsoever about about them 
> being fake until around 1998 when a dealer was substituting a DAG Howardite 
> for Kapoeta.  This was my first encounter with fraud in meteorites and now it 
> is so common place that some just take it for granted. It is a pretty sad 
> situation.
> 
> Just because it is common place doesn't excuse anybody from engaging in the 
> unsavory practice.
> 
> Adam
> 
> 
> 
>> On 11/26/2017 5:18 PM, Michael Farmer wrote:
>> Fake things being sold for money. Wow color me shocked. Hardly anything new. 
>> What’s next? Knock-off Rolex and Prada shoes?
>> Come on Adam. Yes it’s terrible but hardly news. Let them get scammed. 
>> Perhaps they should buy from real dealers.
>> Michael Farmer
>>> On Nov 27, 2017, at 8:28 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> This same seller fleeced $400.00 out of some poor collector last week:
>>> 
>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lunar-Meteorite-from-KREEP-Basalt-to-Lunar-Granite-0-4g-Moon-Breccia-Granite/222713435793?hash=item33dac15691:g:-EMAAOSwv~RZ04Hn
>>> 
>>> It is a bad sign when undocumented stones are starting to outnumber 
>>> official material.
>>> 
>>> I have seen the same thing happen in other collectable markets.
>>> 
>>> What next, witnessed falls again?
>>> 
>>> Adam
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 11/26/2017 4:17 PM, drtanuki wrote:
 Adam and List,
   There is also a seller from Taiwan selling fake Lunar KREEP. Buyer 
 beware!Help this guy by "liking" his post! Thanks!
 jacwon_7
 https://www.ebay.com/sch/jacwon_7/m.html?item=222713434677=item33dac15235%3Ag%3AReUAAOSw2oJZ04cE=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562
 Best Regards,
 Dirk Ross...Tokyo
 
 From: Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
 To: metlist 
 Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 9:04 AM
 Subject: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial Breccia Being Offered Up As Lunar
 Some more terrestrial breccia lacking any kind of fusion crust or
 flight-markings being added to the huge pile being sold as lunar:
 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lunar-Meteorite-Breccia-37g/263346210852?hash=item3d50a84824:g:zzwAAOSwEEBaGyPN
 This demonstrates the need to have every piece tested and made official.
 To me it is obvious this is not a lunar specimen but it is close enough
 to fool many.  Remember, a COA is worthless without official scientific
 data to back it up.  A recent national auction demonstrated that there
 is simply no secondary market for undocumented, untested and unofficial
 material.
 Material like this only undermines collector confidence which is at an
 all time low right now because of the amount of undocumented crap being
 dumped onto the market.  Fake Martian material is making a comeback as 
 well.
 Adam
 __
 Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the 
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 Meteorite-list mailing list
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Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial Breccia Being Offered Up As Lunar// Fake KREEP

2017-11-27 Thread Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list 
Fake things being sold for money. Wow color me shocked. Hardly anything new. 
What’s next? Knock-off Rolex and Prada shoes? 
Come on Adam. Yes it’s terrible but hardly news. Let them get scammed. Perhaps 
they should buy from real dealers. 

Michael Farmer

> On Nov 27, 2017, at 8:28 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
>  wrote:
> 
> This same seller fleeced $400.00 out of some poor collector last week:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lunar-Meteorite-from-KREEP-Basalt-to-Lunar-Granite-0-4g-Moon-Breccia-Granite/222713435793?hash=item33dac15691:g:-EMAAOSwv~RZ04Hn
> 
> It is a bad sign when undocumented stones are starting to outnumber official 
> material.
> 
> I have seen the same thing happen in other collectable markets.
> 
> What next, witnessed falls again?
> 
> Adam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 11/26/2017 4:17 PM, drtanuki wrote:
>> Adam and List,
>>   There is also a seller from Taiwan selling fake Lunar KREEP. Buyer 
>> beware!Help this guy by "liking" his post! Thanks!
>> jacwon_7
>> https://www.ebay.com/sch/jacwon_7/m.html?item=222713434677=item33dac15235%3Ag%3AReUAAOSw2oJZ04cE=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562
>> Best Regards,
>> Dirk Ross...Tokyo
>> 
>> From: Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
>> To: metlist 
>> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 9:04 AM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial Breccia Being Offered Up As Lunar
>> Some more terrestrial breccia lacking any kind of fusion crust or
>> flight-markings being added to the huge pile being sold as lunar:
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lunar-Meteorite-Breccia-37g/263346210852?hash=item3d50a84824:g:zzwAAOSwEEBaGyPN
>> This demonstrates the need to have every piece tested and made official.
>> To me it is obvious this is not a lunar specimen but it is close enough
>> to fool many.  Remember, a COA is worthless without official scientific
>> data to back it up.  A recent national auction demonstrated that there
>> is simply no secondary market for undocumented, untested and unofficial
>> material.
>> Material like this only undermines collector confidence which is at an
>> all time low right now because of the amount of undocumented crap being
>> dumped onto the market.  Fake Martian material is making a comeback as well.
>> Adam
>> __
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>> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial Breccia Being Offered Up As Lunar// Fake KREEP

2017-11-26 Thread Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
It is unfortunate that fraudulent sales on eBay has consequences on the 
rest of market.  These days, most collectors, new to the market, start 
on eBay where they acquire their first stone.  Advanced collectors have 
learned that one fake piece can jeopardize the standing of the rest of 
their collections so demand proper documentation and provenance. 
Unfortunately, these standards don't exist on eBay which has become a 
clearing house for fakes.


I have filed a couple of NOCI forms with eBay and they did follow up 
since plagiarizing copyrighted material like Meteoritical Bulletin 
entries for an official meteorite to describe an unclassified stone is 
not tolerable.


It makes me sad to see some IMCA members, who are also acting as 
dealers, not upholding the strict standards put in place to protect 
collectors.  Code of Ethics rule number six is not being followed by 
many who promised to uphold these standards as a part of becoming a member:


***
6.I agree that unclassified 'meteorites' that have not been verified 
as meteorites might not be meteorites. I will not sell or trade any 
meteorites or any questionable meteoritic material unless I first obtain 
verification. I agree to specify verified but unclassified material as 
such in connection with any sale, trade, or other transaction related to 
the same. Meteoritical Society guidelines will prevail in the 
circumstance of meteorite naming and pairing. I understand and agree 
that, as a member, I may be required to provide further evidence to the 
Board (or other relevant I.M.C.A. Committee), including but not limited 
to: the verification process utilized for unclassified meteorites, 
and/or documentation from an approved testing institution or approved 
individual of the Board's choosing.

**


Adam

On 11/26/2017 6:18 PM, Michael Farmer wrote:

Adam I agree with you fully. But haven’t you learned after decades that eBay 
doesn’t give a rat’s ass about fraud? They make money on sales. All sales, even 
scams. They will never police the site.

Michael Farmer


On Nov 27, 2017, at 9:55 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:

Yes, counterfeits and fakes are hardly anything new.  Some counterfeit Chinese 
made medications sold in the U.S. market through national chain stores put my 
mother-in-law in the hospital for several weeks and could have resulted in her 
death.  How about counterfeit batteries that blow up in your face while talking 
on a cell phone?  How about sawdust in your baby formula or rat turds ground 
into your dog's food?

I remember having to write checks to acquire meteorites from a handful of 
dealers a few decades ago.  I had no concerns whatsoever about about them being 
fake until around 1998 when a dealer was substituting a DAG Howardite for 
Kapoeta.  This was my first encounter with fraud in meteorites and now it is so 
common place that some just take it for granted. It is a pretty sad situation.

Just because it is common place doesn't excuse anybody from engaging in the 
unsavory practice.

Adam




On 11/26/2017 5:18 PM, Michael Farmer wrote:
Fake things being sold for money. Wow color me shocked. Hardly anything new. 
What’s next? Knock-off Rolex and Prada shoes?
Come on Adam. Yes it’s terrible but hardly news. Let them get scammed. Perhaps 
they should buy from real dealers.
Michael Farmer

On Nov 27, 2017, at 8:28 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:

This same seller fleeced $400.00 out of some poor collector last week:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lunar-Meteorite-from-KREEP-Basalt-to-Lunar-Granite-0-4g-Moon-Breccia-Granite/222713435793?hash=item33dac15691:g:-EMAAOSwv~RZ04Hn

It is a bad sign when undocumented stones are starting to outnumber official 
material.

I have seen the same thing happen in other collectable markets.

What next, witnessed falls again?

Adam







On 11/26/2017 4:17 PM, drtanuki wrote:
Adam and List,
   There is also a seller from Taiwan selling fake Lunar KREEP. Buyer beware!Help this 
guy by "liking" his post! Thanks!
jacwon_7
https://www.ebay.com/sch/jacwon_7/m.html?item=222713434677=item33dac15235%3Ag%3AReUAAOSw2oJZ04cE=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562
Best Regards,
Dirk Ross...Tokyo

From: Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
To: metlist 
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 9:04 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial Breccia Being Offered Up As Lunar
Some more terrestrial breccia lacking any kind of fusion crust or
flight-markings being added to the huge pile being sold as lunar:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lunar-Meteorite-Breccia-37g/263346210852?hash=item3d50a84824:g:zzwAAOSwEEBaGyPN
This demonstrates the need to have every piece tested and made official.
To me it is obvious this is not a

Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial Breccia Being Offered Up As Lunar// Fake KREEP

2017-11-26 Thread Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
Yes, counterfeits and fakes are hardly anything new.  Some counterfeit 
Chinese made medications sold in the U.S. market through national chain 
stores put my mother-in-law in the hospital for several weeks and could 
have resulted in her death.  How about counterfeit batteries that blow 
up in your face while talking on a cell phone?  How about sawdust in 
your baby formula or rat turds ground into your dog's food?


I remember having to write checks to acquire meteorites from a handful 
of dealers a few decades ago.  I had no concerns whatsoever about about 
them being fake until around 1998 when a dealer was substituting a DAG 
Howardite for Kapoeta.  This was my first encounter with fraud in 
meteorites and now it is so common place that some just take it for 
granted. It is a pretty sad situation.


Just because it is common place doesn't excuse anybody from engaging in 
the unsavory practice.


Adam



On 11/26/2017 5:18 PM, Michael Farmer wrote:

Fake things being sold for money. Wow color me shocked. Hardly anything new. 
What’s next? Knock-off Rolex and Prada shoes?
Come on Adam. Yes it’s terrible but hardly news. Let them get scammed. Perhaps 
they should buy from real dealers.

Michael Farmer


On Nov 27, 2017, at 8:28 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:

This same seller fleeced $400.00 out of some poor collector last week:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lunar-Meteorite-from-KREEP-Basalt-to-Lunar-Granite-0-4g-Moon-Breccia-Granite/222713435793?hash=item33dac15691:g:-EMAAOSwv~RZ04Hn

It is a bad sign when undocumented stones are starting to outnumber official 
material.

I have seen the same thing happen in other collectable markets.

What next, witnessed falls again?

Adam







On 11/26/2017 4:17 PM, drtanuki wrote:
Adam and List,
   There is also a seller from Taiwan selling fake Lunar KREEP. Buyer beware!Help this 
guy by "liking" his post! Thanks!
jacwon_7
https://www.ebay.com/sch/jacwon_7/m.html?item=222713434677=item33dac15235%3Ag%3AReUAAOSw2oJZ04cE=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562
Best Regards,
Dirk Ross...Tokyo

From: Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
To: metlist 
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 9:04 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial Breccia Being Offered Up As Lunar
Some more terrestrial breccia lacking any kind of fusion crust or
flight-markings being added to the huge pile being sold as lunar:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lunar-Meteorite-Breccia-37g/263346210852?hash=item3d50a84824:g:zzwAAOSwEEBaGyPN
This demonstrates the need to have every piece tested and made official.
To me it is obvious this is not a lunar specimen but it is close enough
to fool many.  Remember, a COA is worthless without official scientific
data to back it up.  A recent national auction demonstrated that there
is simply no secondary market for undocumented, untested and unofficial
material.
Material like this only undermines collector confidence which is at an
all time low right now because of the amount of undocumented crap being
dumped onto the market.  Fake Martian material is making a comeback as well.
Adam
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Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial Breccia Being Offered Up As Lunar// Fake KREEP

2017-11-26 Thread Galactic Stone & Ironworks via Meteorite-list 
Worse yet, eBay has ZERO interest in combating fake meteorites and tektites.

A sizeable portion of the moldavite on eBay is obviously fake - not
even good fakes. They scream "FAKE!" from the minute you first see
them. And people keep buying them, and eBay keeps letting the sellers
list them.

Many members of the meteorite community, myself included, have
contacted eBay countless times to report fraudulent items and offer
advice on how to prevent fraud. At every turn, we were ignored or
rebuffed. In my opinion, eBay is an accessory to criminal acts by
knowingly allowing fraud to transpire in their marketplace so they can
collect fees and profit from the sales. For every buyer who demands a
refund, there are several who unknowingly treasure their fraudulent
specimen and are happy with it. So, eBay comes out ahead by looking
the other way.

When the Tiffany company confronted eBay about fake Tiffany items,
they threatened to sue and/or prosecute eBay if they didn't take
action. And to eBay's credit, they did take some action - but only
because they were faced with an old and powerful company with legions
of lawyers. The meteorite community has no such clout or power.

The scammers and thieves are doing this because they can. They know
eBay is a joke when it comes to security and fraud prevention. I blame
eBay more than the scammers. Scammers will always exist as long as
there is greed, and it is eBay's greed that allows their marketplace
to become a minefield of fakes.

That's my two cents. Actual worth will likely vary.



On 11/26/17, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list
 wrote:
> This same seller fleeced $400.00 out of some poor collector last week:
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lunar-Meteorite-from-KREEP-Basalt-to-Lunar-Granite-0-4g-Moon-Breccia-Granite/222713435793?hash=item33dac15691:g:-EMAAOSwv~RZ04Hn
>
> It is a bad sign when undocumented stones are starting to outnumber
> official material.
>
> I have seen the same thing happen in other collectable markets.
>
> What next, witnessed falls again?
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/26/2017 4:17 PM, drtanuki wrote:
>> Adam and List,
>>There is also a seller from Taiwan selling fake Lunar KREEP. Buyer
>> beware!Help this guy by "liking" his post! Thanks!
>> jacwon_7
>>
>> https://www.ebay.com/sch/jacwon_7/m.html?item=222713434677=item33dac15235%3Ag%3AReUAAOSw2oJZ04cE=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Dirk Ross...Tokyo
>>
>> 
>> From: Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
>> To: metlist 
>> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 9:04 AM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial Breccia Being Offered Up As Lunar
>>
>>
>>
>> Some more terrestrial breccia lacking any kind of fusion crust or
>>
>> flight-markings being added to the huge pile being sold as lunar:
>>
>>
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lunar-Meteorite-Breccia-37g/263346210852?hash=item3d50a84824:g:zzwAAOSwEEBaGyPN
>>
>>
>> This demonstrates the need to have every piece tested and made official.
>>
>> To me it is obvious this is not a lunar specimen but it is close enough
>>
>> to fool many.  Remember, a COA is worthless without official scientific
>>
>> data to back it up.  A recent national auction demonstrated that there
>>
>> is simply no secondary market for undocumented, untested and unofficial
>>
>> material.
>>
>>
>> Material like this only undermines collector confidence which is at an
>>
>> all time low right now because of the amount of undocumented crap being
>>
>> dumped onto the market.  Fake Martian material is making a comeback as
>> well.
>>
>>
>> Adam
>>
>> __
>>
>>
>> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the
>> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
>>
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>
>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>>
>> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> __
>
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> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
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-- 
---
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Instagram : www.instagram.com/galacticstone
Twitter : www.twitter.com/galacticstone
---
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Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial Breccia Being Offered Up As Lunar// Fake KREEP

2017-11-26 Thread Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 

This same seller fleeced $400.00 out of some poor collector last week:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lunar-Meteorite-from-KREEP-Basalt-to-Lunar-Granite-0-4g-Moon-Breccia-Granite/222713435793?hash=item33dac15691:g:-EMAAOSwv~RZ04Hn

It is a bad sign when undocumented stones are starting to outnumber 
official material.


I have seen the same thing happen in other collectable markets.

What next, witnessed falls again?

Adam






On 11/26/2017 4:17 PM, drtanuki wrote:

Adam and List,
   There is also a seller from Taiwan selling fake Lunar KREEP. Buyer beware!Help this 
guy by "liking" his post! Thanks!
jacwon_7

https://www.ebay.com/sch/jacwon_7/m.html?item=222713434677=item33dac15235%3Ag%3AReUAAOSw2oJZ04cE=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

Best Regards,
Dirk Ross...Tokyo


From: Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
To: metlist 
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 9:04 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial Breccia Being Offered Up As Lunar



Some more terrestrial breccia lacking any kind of fusion crust or

flight-markings being added to the huge pile being sold as lunar:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lunar-Meteorite-Breccia-37g/263346210852?hash=item3d50a84824:g:zzwAAOSwEEBaGyPN


This demonstrates the need to have every piece tested and made official.

To me it is obvious this is not a lunar specimen but it is close enough

to fool many.  Remember, a COA is worthless without official scientific

data to back it up.  A recent national auction demonstrated that there

is simply no secondary market for undocumented, untested and unofficial

material.


Material like this only undermines collector confidence which is at an

all time low right now because of the amount of undocumented crap being

dumped onto the market.  Fake Martian material is making a comeback as well.


Adam

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Re: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial Breccia Being Offered Up As Lunar// Fake KREEP

2017-11-26 Thread drtanuki via Meteorite-list 
Adam and List,
  There is also a seller from Taiwan selling fake Lunar KREEP. Buyer 
beware!Help this guy by "liking" his post! Thanks! 
jacwon_7

https://www.ebay.com/sch/jacwon_7/m.html?item=222713434677=item33dac15235%3Ag%3AReUAAOSw2oJZ04cE=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

Best Regards,
Dirk Ross...Tokyo 


From: Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
To: metlist  
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 9:04 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial Breccia Being Offered Up As Lunar



Some more terrestrial breccia lacking any kind of fusion crust or 

flight-markings being added to the huge pile being sold as lunar:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lunar-Meteorite-Breccia-37g/263346210852?hash=item3d50a84824:g:zzwAAOSwEEBaGyPN


This demonstrates the need to have every piece tested and made official. 

To me it is obvious this is not a lunar specimen but it is close enough 

to fool many.  Remember, a COA is worthless without official scientific 

data to back it up.  A recent national auction demonstrated that there 

is simply no secondary market for undocumented, untested and unofficial 

material.


Material like this only undermines collector confidence which is at an 

all time low right now because of the amount of undocumented crap being 

dumped onto the market.  Fake Martian material is making a comeback as well.


Adam

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