Re: [meteorite-list] WAS Cyanobacteria in meteorites? NOW: Life in Meteorites
Perhaps... But, are you referring to the Orgueil meteorite claim of fossilized bacteria, Murchison, or the whole claim of fossilized microbial life in meteorites all together? We already know that microbial life can survive in space. The question is for how long. The conclusion sounds accurate enough to say... Plausible: Life is not restricted to Earth, nor is there evidence that says empirically that life could NOT survive in the harshness of space. In fact there is more evidence that suggested it's probable than not. Based on the fact that it has already been observed that life can survive in space without the insulative protection that asteroid, meteoroid, or ejecta material could provide. Look at this: http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/1998/ast01sep98_1/#anchor179666 Granted that's only 2.6 years, and we brought it back to Earth. What's to say it wouldn't have survived in the camera longer if left alone, or if it were cocooned within the safe confines of a meteoroid or asteroid that it couldn't survive for millions of years. There's an interesting article on survival of microbes in space in the Journal of Cosmology titled Microbial Survival Mechanisms and the Interplanetary Transfer of Life Through Space. http://journalofcosmology.com/Panspermia9.html And the Plausibility of Martian Microbes - Which was posted/linked to on the Met-List in 2004 http://www.mail-archive.com/meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com/msg21972.html Original Article: http://www.astrobio.net/pressrelease/941/plausibility-of-martian-microbes Also good reads from LPI, NASA, and Astrobiology Magazine. Fossil Life in ALH 84001? http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lpi/meteorites/life.html Evidence of Ancient Martian Life in Meteorite ALH84001? http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/marslife.html And these articles on extremophiles and other extreme life propagating environs: http://www.astrobio.net/hottopic_origins_extremelife.php The evidence of life transfer from reputable sources is growing. The more we learn about meteorites the more we realize that they are the key to understanding everything. Regards, Eric On 8/21/2010 10:18 AM, Charles O'Dale wrote: Apparently this is a hoax, sorry about that guys !! : ( Chuck http://ottawa-rasc.ca/wiki/index.php?title=Odale-Articles - Forwarded Message From: Charles O'Dalecodale0...@rogers.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, August 20, 2010 8:35:04 AM Subject: Cyanobacteria in meteorites? http://www.panspermia.org/hoover4.htm __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] WAS Cyanobacteria in meteorites? NOW: Life in Meteorites
Martian meteorite NWA 998 displays an abundance of these fossils and is proving to be much richer than ALH84001: If the scientific community ever completely embraces the idea, then we will witness another surge in the importance they represent. In any case, all of the talk of Martian fossils and life helped lift Mars into the forefront making it easier to justify all of the missions taking place there. In my opinion, ALH84001 and the scientists who studied it are mostly responsible for the renewed interest in Mars. Here is a link to a recent article on NWA 998: http://skymania.com/wp/2010/04/new-meteorite-clues-to-life-on-mars.html Best Regards, Adam - Original Message From: Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sat, August 21, 2010 12:15:39 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WAS Cyanobacteria in meteorites? NOW: Life in Meteorites Perhaps... But, are you referring to the Orgueil meteorite claim of fossilized bacteria, Murchison, or the whole claim of fossilized microbial life in meteorites all together? We already know that microbial life can survive in space. The question is for how long. The conclusion sounds accurate enough to say... Plausible: Life is not restricted to Earth, nor is there evidence that says empirically that life could NOT survive in the harshness of space. In fact there is more evidence that suggested it's probable than not. Based on the fact that it has already been observed that life can survive in space without the insulative protection that asteroid, meteoroid, or ejecta material could provide. Look at this: http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/1998/ast01sep98_1/#anchor179666 Granted that's only 2.6 years, and we brought it back to Earth. What's to say it wouldn't have survived in the camera longer if left alone, or if it were cocooned within the safe confines of a meteoroid or asteroid that it couldn't survive for millions of years. There's an interesting article on survival of microbes in space in the Journal of Cosmology titled Microbial Survival Mechanisms and the Interplanetary Transfer of Life Through Space. http://journalofcosmology.com/Panspermia9.html And the Plausibility of Martian Microbes - Which was posted/linked to on the Met-List in 2004 http://www.mail-archive.com/meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com/msg21972.html Original Article: http://www.astrobio.net/pressrelease/941/plausibility-of-martian-microbes Also good reads from LPI, NASA, and Astrobiology Magazine. Fossil Life in ALH 84001? http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lpi/meteorites/life.html Evidence of Ancient Martian Life in Meteorite ALH84001? http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/marslife.html And these articles on extremophiles and other extreme life propagating environs: http://www.astrobio.net/hottopic_origins_extremelife.php The evidence of life transfer from reputable sources is growing. The more we learn about meteorites the more we realize that they are the key to understanding everything. Regards, Eric On 8/21/2010 10:18 AM, Charles O'Dale wrote: Apparently this is a hoax, sorry about that guys !! : ( Chuck http://ottawa-rasc.ca/wiki/index.php?title=Odale-Articles - Forwarded Message From: Charles O'Dalecodale0...@rogers.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, August 20, 2010 8:35:04 AM Subject: Cyanobacteria in meteorites? http://www.panspermia.org/hoover4.htm __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] WAS Cyanobacteria in meteorites? NOW: Life in Meteorites
Hi Adam, I think eventually the scientific community will embrace it. A large collection of highly intelligent minds think rather slowly apparently. ;) Patience... Historically there's a process of belief vs proof and that helps hypothesis and theory to evolves into self evident fact.. At first people are not receptive and it gets ignored, then they argue against it, then it becomes plausible, and finally it becomes a viable theory, which in turn becomes fact based on empirical evidence. Only then will something become accepted. Like I said before, the evidence of extraterrestrial life is growing. You mention Mars and exploration... I found this the other day. Symphony of Science - The Case For Mars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ5sWfhkpE0 Enjoy... Eric On 8/21/2010 1:17 PM, Adam Hupe wrote: Martian meteorite NWA 998 displays an abundance of these fossils and is proving to be much richer than ALH84001: If the scientific community ever completely embraces the idea, then we will witness another surge in the importance they represent. In any case, all of the talk of Martian fossils and life helped lift Mars into the forefront making it easier to justify all of the missions taking place there. In my opinion, ALH84001 and the scientists who studied it are mostly responsible for the renewed interest in Mars. Here is a link to a recent article on NWA 998: http://skymania.com/wp/2010/04/new-meteorite-clues-to-life-on-mars.html Best Regards, Adam - Original Message From: Meteorites USAe...@meteoritesusa.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sat, August 21, 2010 12:15:39 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WAS Cyanobacteria in meteorites? NOW: Life in Meteorites Perhaps... But, are you referring to the Orgueil meteorite claim of fossilized bacteria, Murchison, or the whole claim of fossilized microbial life in meteorites all together? We already know that microbial life can survive in space. The question is for how long. The conclusion sounds accurate enough to say... Plausible: Life is not restricted to Earth, nor is there evidence that says empirically that life could NOT survive in the harshness of space. In fact there is more evidence that suggested it's probable than not. Based on the fact that it has already been observed that life can survive in space without the insulative protection that asteroid, meteoroid, or ejecta material could provide. Look at this: http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/1998/ast01sep98_1/#anchor179666 Granted that's only 2.6 years, and we brought it back to Earth. What's to say it wouldn't have survived in the camera longer if left alone, or if it were cocooned within the safe confines of a meteoroid or asteroid that it couldn't survive for millions of years. There's an interesting article on survival of microbes in space in the Journal of Cosmology titled Microbial Survival Mechanisms and the Interplanetary Transfer of Life Through Space. http://journalofcosmology.com/Panspermia9.html And the Plausibility of Martian Microbes - Which was posted/linked to on the Met-List in 2004 http://www.mail-archive.com/meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com/msg21972.html Original Article: http://www.astrobio.net/pressrelease/941/plausibility-of-martian-microbes Also good reads from LPI, NASA, and Astrobiology Magazine. Fossil Life in ALH 84001? http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lpi/meteorites/life.html Evidence of Ancient Martian Life in Meteorite ALH84001? http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/marslife.html And these articles on extremophiles and other extreme life propagating environs: http://www.astrobio.net/hottopic_origins_extremelife.php The evidence of life transfer from reputable sources is growing. The more we learn about meteorites the more we realize that they are the key to understanding everything. Regards, Eric On 8/21/2010 10:18 AM, Charles O'Dale wrote: Apparently this is a hoax, sorry about that guys !! : ( Chuck http://ottawa-rasc.ca/wiki/index.php?title=Odale-Articles - Forwarded Message From: Charles O'Dalecodale0...@rogers.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, August 20, 2010 8:35:04 AM Subject: Cyanobacteria in meteorites? http://www.panspermia.org/hoover4.htm __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http
Re: [meteorite-list] WAS Cyanobacteria in meteorites? NOW: Life in Meteorites
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 13:39:48 -0700, you wrote: ;) Patience... Historically there's a process of belief vs proof and that helps hypothesis and theory to evolves into self evident fact.. At first people are not receptive and it gets ignored, then they argue against it, then it becomes plausible, and finally it becomes a viable theory, which in turn becomes fact based on empirical evidence. And, at times, the evidence is ambigious and questionable. ALH84001 is one of those times. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lpi/meteorites/alhnpap.html http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lpi/meteorites/alhnpapers_archive.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] WAS Cyanobacteria in meteorites? NOW: Life in Meteorites
If one looks hard enough at anything with a skeptical mind ambiguity will present itself in all it's subjective glory. I understand about contamination with regard to meteorites falling, then sitting for thousands if not hundreds of thousands of years before their discovery. I also admit that improper handling of specimens could contaminate and void results as well. The only way to fix this apparent problem of doubt is to reduce the amount of it by acquiring and compiling more evidential data through proper sampling. Data that might be considered absolutely irrefutable. Is there such a thing? Perhaps one could argue the only way to prove it would be to send a probe to an asteroid, recover samples in a sterile environment, with sterile equipment, and preserve the sample through the entire journey back to Earth, to a sterile lab where the piece could be examined. Even then, doubt could still be cast, and it could be argued that contamination could happen at any point during the entire process from manufacture and assemblage of the probe, to launch, collection method, sample return, processing, etc. How do you cut out all of that doubt? Is it with a manned mission to the surface of an asteroid? Whereby that astronaut/scientist would sample and examine the asteroid onsite and report findings IF any evidence was found. How long would that manned mission take to find evidence? Perhaps forever if it doesn't exist But think of the knowledge that could be learned during that time. I'm sure there are those that would find fault with this method too. Humans are more fallible than machines. I'm not arguing against doubt. I'm for it to an extent. But we should temper doubt with logic. When does scientific evidence become accepted fact? Eric On 8/21/2010 3:20 PM, Darren Garrison wrote: On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 13:39:48 -0700, you wrote: ;) Patience... Historically there's a process of belief vs proof and that helps hypothesis and theory to evolves into self evident fact.. At first people are not receptive and it gets ignored, then they argue against it, then it becomes plausible, and finally it becomes a viable theory, which in turn becomes fact based on empirical evidence. And, at times, the evidence is ambigious and questionable. ALH84001 is one of those times. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lpi/meteorites/alhnpap.html http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lpi/meteorites/alhnpapers_archive.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] WAS Cyanobacteria in meteorites? NOW: Life in Meteorites
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 15:15:18 -0700, you wrote: If one looks hard enough at anything with a skeptical mind ambiguity will present itself in all it's subjective glory. As does confirmation bias. Are you REALLY suggesting that people shouldn't look at information skeptically and point out flaws in it? __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] WAS Cyanobacteria in meteorites? NOW: Life in Meteorites
Of course not, as evidenced by my comment.. ...I'm not arguing against doubt. I'm for it to an extent. But we should temper doubt with logic...' My point was that we can reduce the amount of doubt by proper sampling and testing. That in turn frees the mind to be open to more radical possibilities. Too much skepticism makes for a constipated mind. ;) Eric On 8/21/2010 4:36 PM, Darren Garrison wrote: On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 15:15:18 -0700, you wrote: If one looks hard enough at anything with a skeptical mind ambiguity will present itself in all it's subjective glory. As does confirmation bias. Are you REALLY suggesting that people shouldn't look at information skeptically and point out flaws in it? __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
