Re: [meteorite-list] Weird inclusion in NWA 2086 CV3
That's a Dark Inclusion (DI) as per my email yesterday about them. There are a number of different types of them which have commonly and traditionally been mistaken for other carbonaceous-type clasts. Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com Cc: Jeff Grossman jgross...@usgs.gov; Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Weird inclusion in NWA 2086 CV3 Wow, see this photo - http://www.meteorite-house.com/MHContentFiles/MHmetPix/PicStoneCHotherNWA208612.html Andreas' specimen does have a clast like mine! Notice the close-up of the clast in his piece. It is very similar to the light-colored regions in my stone. There is even chondrule deformation. :) On 8/10/10, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jason and List, Jason makes a great point about this being an inclusion within an inclusion. These specimens were taken from a small, jagged, fragment that was obviously a remnant of a larger mass. Before that mass fragmented (either in flight, on impact, or through weathering), it was presumably a whole stone with a more representative lithology of this meteorite. This light-colored region with squashed chondrules and it's brown inclusion was previously embedded in the larger stone. It would have been great to see a slice of the whole stone that this fragment came from. As for being NWA 2086 or not, I would question it also if presented with my initial post and photos. But, I did cut a larger batch of this material and all of it (except for this fragment) looked exactly like typical NWA 2086 - darker matrix, more spherical chondrules, more colorful chondrules, CAI's, etc. Also, I asked my source about the chain of provenance regarding this batch and I was told that it came directly from a very respected source. I don't want to name drop, but contact me off-list if curious. The provenance is very solid. So I am very confident that this material is indeed NWA 2086. The question in my mind now is about the brown inclusion - is it a product of weathering/oxidation, or was it originally present in the meteorite? If the latter, then what is it? This question will be answered soon, because one List member has offered to thin-section this material for me and another list-member with thin-section experience purchased the largest piece. So, two different veteran list members are going to make qualitative examinations and analysis of these specimens in the future. And I hope they will share the results with us. Also, for those who might inquire, this brown inclusion / light lithology material is sold out. I kept one slice and sold the remaining pieces. All I have remaining are small crumbs and a few sub-gram pieces that show some chondrules. The slice I kept will likely become another thin-section, pending further discussion. I did some looking on the web, and I found a single photo of NWA 2086 that has a clast that somewhat resembles the lighter lithology in my specimens. In this linked photo, look in the lower left-hand portion of the specimen, near the 7-oclock position. You will see a clast on the edge that is a different lithology than the rest of the specimen. The clast is similar in color to my specimens, but it lacks the squashed ellipsoidal chondrules. http://www.meteorite-house.com/MHContentFiles/MHmetPix/PicStoneCHotherNWA208611.html I examined my slice under the microscope at 60x tonight, and the matrix in the light-colored area looks stippled. It appears to be composed of tiny black dots set into a whitish background matrix. Whatever it is, it is very fine-grained compared to the darker lithology that is seen on the same specimen. I am glad there is the boundary line and region of common NWA 2086 lithology in these pieces, because it provides a good contrast for comparing the two lithologies. Best regards, MikeG Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone On 8/10/10, Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Jeff, All, The only reason that I assumed that this slice *might* be a piece of NWA 2089 is because of that dark corner - it's the only part of this stone that looks *like* NWA 2086. The light lithology that you say looks like NWA 2086 looks very unlike other samples of 2086: http://www.aerolite.org/prizes/nwa-2086.htm http://www.meteoriteguy.com/catalog/nwa2086.htm http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2008/march/Accretion_Desk.htm So what we're looking at here, if it's a piece of NWA 2086, is a slice comprised almost entirely of a light clast that is in no way typical of most NWA 2086 specimens. That strange brown thing that everyone's arguing about
Re: [meteorite-list] Weird inclusion in NWA 2086 CV3
G'day Mike, Interesting piece. I've seen a bit of a new CV3 meteorite coming out from Morocco lately and much of it looks similar to yours. Firstly, take a look at this page on Dark Inclusions: http://www.meteorites.com.au/oddsends/DarkInclusions.html It could be possible that the unusual inclusion in yours is a weathered one of these. But at the same time, this new CV material coming out of Morocco is different to the stuff I've seen in the past. I think the only way I can explain it is to say that it almost appears 'muddy'. I guess it's like saying that there are a few largish chondrules set in a very fine-grained 'muddy' matrix. It's possible yours could be an exaggerated example of that? Nice piece, Jeff - Original Message - From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:28 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Weird inclusion in NWA 2086 CV3 Hi List, Has anyone ever seen an inclusion like this in a CV3 meteorite? It is a brown. featureless, area that snakes through the surrounding matrix and chondrules. I have seen light and dark inclusions in different carbonaceous meteorites, including Allende, but I have not seen an inclusion like this one. I cut several fragments of this meteorite and most had a predominately dark-matrix lithology. One fragment had a small portion of dark matrix lithology, and a predominate lighter-grey matrix lithology. It was in this light-matrix stone that this weird glassy brown inclusion appeared during cutting. It resembles caramel and has a slick texture compared to the rest of the meteorite. Under the loupe, it appears very fine grained, almost glassy, like an olivine. It does not appear to be oxidation of any kind. The inclusion ran through the entire fragment and I have 4 different pieces that show it. Besides this inclusion, there is the expected mixture of chondrules and CAI's. The pieces shown in the photos are rough-sawn - no sanding or polishing yet. The pieces shown are an endcut and a slice. The endcut weighs 5.18g and the slice weighs 3.27g. The close-up photo of the ? (question mark) shaped inclusion is the clearest. I'll try to snap some better photos tomorrow under outside natural lighting. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-inclusion-3.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-inclusion-1.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-inclusion-2.jpg Does anyone know what this inclusion might be? Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Weird inclusion in NWA 2086 CV3
Hi Jeff and List, The color balance in my first set of photos was way off. Here is another photo showing what the color should look like. This photo is split, the left shows my original photo, and the right shows a better representation of what the stones actually look like in person - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-inclusion.jpg Here is a photo of some other slices from the same batch. Notice that the matrix is darker in these pieces. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-slices.jpg The fragment with the brown caramel-like inclusion was the smallest of the bunch and more weathered than the others. So I am thinking that there must have been a surface fracture that extended down into the interior of the stone. Weathering products intruded through this crack and the brown inclusion is probably just a clay-like replacement mineral. If the brown area was a typical rust stain, then one would see chondrules and other features under the staining. But this brown area is not a stain because it flows around the chondrules and it extends all the way through the matrix. None of this material had a chance to rust during cutting because it literally went straight from the saw into a waiting hot oven. It was wet for about 60-90 seconds before it went into the oven. Well, whatever it is, I'm keeping one slice of it, giving one to my source, and selling the other two pieces. 5.18g endcut and 3.27g slice are now available to list members for $10/g with free shipping. Contact me off-list if interested. For those who may be wondering - I spoke to my source about it (after someone emailed me off-list questioning whether or not this material is actually NWA 2086), and I am satisfied that this material is 2086. Best regards, MikeG On 8/10/10, Jeff Kuyken i...@meteorites.com.au wrote: G'day Mike, Interesting piece. I've seen a bit of a new CV3 meteorite coming out from Morocco lately and much of it looks similar to yours. Firstly, take a look at this page on Dark Inclusions: http://www.meteorites.com.au/oddsends/DarkInclusions.html It could be possible that the unusual inclusion in yours is a weathered one of these. But at the same time, this new CV material coming out of Morocco is different to the stuff I've seen in the past. I think the only way I can explain it is to say that it almost appears 'muddy'. I guess it's like saying that there are a few largish chondrules set in a very fine-grained 'muddy' matrix. It's possible yours could be an exaggerated example of that? Nice piece, Jeff - Original Message - From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:28 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Weird inclusion in NWA 2086 CV3 Hi List, Has anyone ever seen an inclusion like this in a CV3 meteorite? It is a brown. featureless, area that snakes through the surrounding matrix and chondrules. I have seen light and dark inclusions in different carbonaceous meteorites, including Allende, but I have not seen an inclusion like this one. I cut several fragments of this meteorite and most had a predominately dark-matrix lithology. One fragment had a small portion of dark matrix lithology, and a predominate lighter-grey matrix lithology. It was in this light-matrix stone that this weird glassy brown inclusion appeared during cutting. It resembles caramel and has a slick texture compared to the rest of the meteorite. Under the loupe, it appears very fine grained, almost glassy, like an olivine. It does not appear to be oxidation of any kind. The inclusion ran through the entire fragment and I have 4 different pieces that show it. Besides this inclusion, there is the expected mixture of chondrules and CAI's. The pieces shown in the photos are rough-sawn - no sanding or polishing yet. The pieces shown are an endcut and a slice. The endcut weighs 5.18g and the slice weighs 3.27g. The close-up photo of the ? (question mark) shaped inclusion is the clearest. I'll try to snap some better photos tomorrow under outside natural lighting. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-inclusion-3.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-inclusion-1.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-inclusion-2.jpg Does anyone know what this inclusion might be? Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net
[meteorite-list] Weird inclusion in NWA 2086 CV3
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-inclusion.jpg Hello All, Michael G. wrote: So I am thinking that there must have been a surface fracture that extended down into the interior of the stone. Weathering products intruded through this crack and the brown 'inclusion' is probably just a clay-like replacement mineral. clay-like = phyllosilicates are clay minerals! .. and *if* it is preterrestrial, this might be an extended area of phyllosilicates, saponite, smectite or something! Cheers, Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Weird inclusion in NWA 2086 CV3
Hi Bernd and List, That's funny you mention that because Bob King also raised the possibility of phyllosilicates. I took some more photos of the specimen that show a better representation of what the specimen looks like. You can also see a distinct boundary line between the typical NWA 2086 lithology (darker matrix) and the strange lighter colored lithology that the majority of this stone has. One area near the end shows the type of matrix we expect from NWA 2086. The brown inclusion does not show any features under it or through it, except in one small spot where two chondrules appear to be immersed in it, while the rest of the inclusion flows around the chondrules like a river flows around islands. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/endcut-519-a.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/endcut-326-1.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-slice-weird-1.jpg Best regards, MikeG Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone On 10 Aug 2010 15:21:51 UT, bernd.pa...@paulinet.de bernd.pa...@paulinet.de wrote: http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-inclusion.jpg Hello All, Michael G. wrote: So I am thinking that there must have been a surface fracture that extended down into the interior of the stone. Weathering products intruded through this crack and the brown 'inclusion' is probably just a clay-like replacement mineral. clay-like = phyllosilicates are clay minerals! .. and *if* it is preterrestrial, this might be an extended area of phyllosilicates, saponite, smectite or something! Cheers, Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Weird inclusion in NWA 2086 CV3
My money's on terrestrial weathering as the cause of the brown area, although there is a clear lithologic boundary on the right side of photo: http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-slice-weird-1.jpg. Jeff On 2010-08-10 2:22 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks wrote: Hi Bernd and List, That's funny you mention that because Bob King also raised the possibility of phyllosilicates. I took some more photos of the specimen that show a better representation of what the specimen looks like. You can also see a distinct boundary line between the typical NWA 2086 lithology (darker matrix) and the strange lighter colored lithology that the majority of this stone has. One area near the end shows the type of matrix we expect from NWA 2086. The brown inclusion does not show any features under it or through it, except in one small spot where two chondrules appear to be immersed in it, while the rest of the inclusion flows around the chondrules like a river flows around islands. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/endcut-519-a.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/endcut-326-1.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-slice-weird-1.jpg Best regards, MikeG Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone On 10 Aug 2010 15:21:51 UT, bernd.pa...@paulinet.de bernd.pa...@paulinet.de wrote: http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-inclusion.jpg Hello All, Michael G. wrote: So I am thinking that there must have been a surface fracture that extended down into the interior of the stone. Weathering products intruded through this crack and the brown 'inclusion' is probably just a clay-like replacement mineral. clay-like = phyllosilicates are clay minerals! .. and *if* it is preterrestrial, this might be an extended area of phyllosilicates, saponite, smectite or something! Cheers, Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Weird inclusion in NWA 2086 CV3
Hello Jeff, All, The only reason that I assumed that this slice *might* be a piece of NWA 2089 is because of that dark corner - it's the only part of this stone that looks *like* NWA 2086. The light lithology that you say looks like NWA 2086 looks very unlike other samples of 2086: http://www.aerolite.org/prizes/nwa-2086.htm http://www.meteoriteguy.com/catalog/nwa2086.htm http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2008/march/Accretion_Desk.htm So what we're looking at here, if it's a piece of NWA 2086, is a slice comprised almost entirely of a light clast that is in no way typical of most NWA 2086 specimens. That strange brown thing that everyone's arguing about has chondrules in it. If it has discolored differently than the rest of the meteorite due to weathering or some other process, it would still point towards that area being composed of a different material (why would it weather differently if it were made of the same stuff?). Given that it seems to have a lesser concentration of chondrules within it (as opposed to the rest of the lighter clast), I would assume that it is indeed foreign meteoric material. But CV3's have strange C-type inclusions in 'em all the time. What's the biggie? ...It's an inclusion within an inclusion? That's cool... Regards, Jason On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Jeff Grossman jgross...@usgs.gov wrote: My money's on terrestrial weathering as the cause of the brown area, although there is a clear lithologic boundary on the right side of photo: http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-slice-weird-1.jpg. Jeff On 2010-08-10 2:22 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks wrote: Hi Bernd and List, That's funny you mention that because Bob King also raised the possibility of phyllosilicates. I took some more photos of the specimen that show a better representation of what the specimen looks like. You can also see a distinct boundary line between the typical NWA 2086 lithology (darker matrix) and the strange lighter colored lithology that the majority of this stone has. One area near the end shows the type of matrix we expect from NWA 2086. The brown inclusion does not show any features under it or through it, except in one small spot where two chondrules appear to be immersed in it, while the rest of the inclusion flows around the chondrules like a river flows around islands. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/endcut-519-a.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/endcut-326-1.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-slice-weird-1.jpg Best regards, MikeG Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone On 10 Aug 2010 15:21:51 UT, bernd.pa...@paulinet.de bernd.pa...@paulinet.de wrote: http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-inclusion.jpg Hello All, Michael G. wrote: So I am thinking that there must have been a surface fracture that extended down into the interior of the stone. Weathering products intruded through this crack and the brown 'inclusion' is probably just a clay-like replacement mineral. clay-like = phyllosilicates are clay minerals! .. and *if* it is preterrestrial, this might be an extended area of phyllosilicates, saponite, smectite or something! Cheers, Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Weird inclusion in NWA 2086 CV3
Hi Jason and List, Jason makes a great point about this being an inclusion within an inclusion. These specimens were taken from a small, jagged, fragment that was obviously a remnant of a larger mass. Before that mass fragmented (either in flight, on impact, or through weathering), it was presumably a whole stone with a more representative lithology of this meteorite. This light-colored region with squashed chondrules and it's brown inclusion was previously embedded in the larger stone. It would have been great to see a slice of the whole stone that this fragment came from. As for being NWA 2086 or not, I would question it also if presented with my initial post and photos. But, I did cut a larger batch of this material and all of it (except for this fragment) looked exactly like typical NWA 2086 - darker matrix, more spherical chondrules, more colorful chondrules, CAI's, etc. Also, I asked my source about the chain of provenance regarding this batch and I was told that it came directly from a very respected source. I don't want to name drop, but contact me off-list if curious. The provenance is very solid. So I am very confident that this material is indeed NWA 2086. The question in my mind now is about the brown inclusion - is it a product of weathering/oxidation, or was it originally present in the meteorite? If the latter, then what is it? This question will be answered soon, because one List member has offered to thin-section this material for me and another list-member with thin-section experience purchased the largest piece. So, two different veteran list members are going to make qualitative examinations and analysis of these specimens in the future. And I hope they will share the results with us. Also, for those who might inquire, this brown inclusion / light lithology material is sold out. I kept one slice and sold the remaining pieces. All I have remaining are small crumbs and a few sub-gram pieces that show some chondrules. The slice I kept will likely become another thin-section, pending further discussion. I did some looking on the web, and I found a single photo of NWA 2086 that has a clast that somewhat resembles the lighter lithology in my specimens. In this linked photo, look in the lower left-hand portion of the specimen, near the 7-oclock position. You will see a clast on the edge that is a different lithology than the rest of the specimen. The clast is similar in color to my specimens, but it lacks the squashed ellipsoidal chondrules. http://www.meteorite-house.com/MHContentFiles/MHmetPix/PicStoneCHotherNWA208611.html I examined my slice under the microscope at 60x tonight, and the matrix in the light-colored area looks stippled. It appears to be composed of tiny black dots set into a whitish background matrix. Whatever it is, it is very fine-grained compared to the darker lithology that is seen on the same specimen. I am glad there is the boundary line and region of common NWA 2086 lithology in these pieces, because it provides a good contrast for comparing the two lithologies. Best regards, MikeG Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone On 8/10/10, Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Jeff, All, The only reason that I assumed that this slice *might* be a piece of NWA 2089 is because of that dark corner - it's the only part of this stone that looks *like* NWA 2086. The light lithology that you say looks like NWA 2086 looks very unlike other samples of 2086: http://www.aerolite.org/prizes/nwa-2086.htm http://www.meteoriteguy.com/catalog/nwa2086.htm http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2008/march/Accretion_Desk.htm So what we're looking at here, if it's a piece of NWA 2086, is a slice comprised almost entirely of a light clast that is in no way typical of most NWA 2086 specimens. That strange brown thing that everyone's arguing about has chondrules in it. If it has discolored differently than the rest of the meteorite due to weathering or some other process, it would still point towards that area being composed of a different material (why would it weather differently if it were made of the same stuff?). Given that it seems to have a lesser concentration of chondrules within it (as opposed to the rest of the lighter clast), I would assume that it is indeed foreign meteoric material. But CV3's have strange C-type inclusions in 'em all the time. What's the biggie? ...It's an inclusion within an inclusion? That's cool... Regards, Jason On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Jeff Grossman jgross...@usgs.gov wrote: My money's on terrestrial weathering as the cause of the brown area, although there is a clear lithologic boundary on the right side of photo:
Re: [meteorite-list] Weird inclusion in NWA 2086 CV3
Wow, see this photo - http://www.meteorite-house.com/MHContentFiles/MHmetPix/PicStoneCHotherNWA208612.html Andreas' specimen does have a clast like mine! Notice the close-up of the clast in his piece. It is very similar to the light-colored regions in my stone. There is even chondrule deformation. :) On 8/10/10, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jason and List, Jason makes a great point about this being an inclusion within an inclusion. These specimens were taken from a small, jagged, fragment that was obviously a remnant of a larger mass. Before that mass fragmented (either in flight, on impact, or through weathering), it was presumably a whole stone with a more representative lithology of this meteorite. This light-colored region with squashed chondrules and it's brown inclusion was previously embedded in the larger stone. It would have been great to see a slice of the whole stone that this fragment came from. As for being NWA 2086 or not, I would question it also if presented with my initial post and photos. But, I did cut a larger batch of this material and all of it (except for this fragment) looked exactly like typical NWA 2086 - darker matrix, more spherical chondrules, more colorful chondrules, CAI's, etc. Also, I asked my source about the chain of provenance regarding this batch and I was told that it came directly from a very respected source. I don't want to name drop, but contact me off-list if curious. The provenance is very solid. So I am very confident that this material is indeed NWA 2086. The question in my mind now is about the brown inclusion - is it a product of weathering/oxidation, or was it originally present in the meteorite? If the latter, then what is it? This question will be answered soon, because one List member has offered to thin-section this material for me and another list-member with thin-section experience purchased the largest piece. So, two different veteran list members are going to make qualitative examinations and analysis of these specimens in the future. And I hope they will share the results with us. Also, for those who might inquire, this brown inclusion / light lithology material is sold out. I kept one slice and sold the remaining pieces. All I have remaining are small crumbs and a few sub-gram pieces that show some chondrules. The slice I kept will likely become another thin-section, pending further discussion. I did some looking on the web, and I found a single photo of NWA 2086 that has a clast that somewhat resembles the lighter lithology in my specimens. In this linked photo, look in the lower left-hand portion of the specimen, near the 7-oclock position. You will see a clast on the edge that is a different lithology than the rest of the specimen. The clast is similar in color to my specimens, but it lacks the squashed ellipsoidal chondrules. http://www.meteorite-house.com/MHContentFiles/MHmetPix/PicStoneCHotherNWA208611.html I examined my slice under the microscope at 60x tonight, and the matrix in the light-colored area looks stippled. It appears to be composed of tiny black dots set into a whitish background matrix. Whatever it is, it is very fine-grained compared to the darker lithology that is seen on the same specimen. I am glad there is the boundary line and region of common NWA 2086 lithology in these pieces, because it provides a good contrast for comparing the two lithologies. Best regards, MikeG Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone On 8/10/10, Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Jeff, All, The only reason that I assumed that this slice *might* be a piece of NWA 2089 is because of that dark corner - it's the only part of this stone that looks *like* NWA 2086. The light lithology that you say looks like NWA 2086 looks very unlike other samples of 2086: http://www.aerolite.org/prizes/nwa-2086.htm http://www.meteoriteguy.com/catalog/nwa2086.htm http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2008/march/Accretion_Desk.htm So what we're looking at here, if it's a piece of NWA 2086, is a slice comprised almost entirely of a light clast that is in no way typical of most NWA 2086 specimens. That strange brown thing that everyone's arguing about has chondrules in it. If it has discolored differently than the rest of the meteorite due to weathering or some other process, it would still point towards that area being composed of a different material (why would it weather differently if it were made of the same stuff?). Given that it seems to have a lesser concentration of chondrules within it (as opposed to the rest of the lighter clast), I would assume that it is indeed foreign meteoric material. But
[meteorite-list] Weird inclusion in NWA 2086 CV3
Hi List, Has anyone ever seen an inclusion like this in a CV3 meteorite? It is a brown. featureless, area that snakes through the surrounding matrix and chondrules. I have seen light and dark inclusions in different carbonaceous meteorites, including Allende, but I have not seen an inclusion like this one. I cut several fragments of this meteorite and most had a predominately dark-matrix lithology. One fragment had a small portion of dark matrix lithology, and a predominate lighter-grey matrix lithology. It was in this light-matrix stone that this weird glassy brown inclusion appeared during cutting. It resembles caramel and has a slick texture compared to the rest of the meteorite. Under the loupe, it appears very fine grained, almost glassy, like an olivine. It does not appear to be oxidation of any kind. The inclusion ran through the entire fragment and I have 4 different pieces that show it. Besides this inclusion, there is the expected mixture of chondrules and CAI's. The pieces shown in the photos are rough-sawn - no sanding or polishing yet. The pieces shown are an endcut and a slice. The endcut weighs 5.18g and the slice weighs 3.27g. The close-up photo of the ? (question mark) shaped inclusion is the clearest. I'll try to snap some better photos tomorrow under outside natural lighting. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-inclusion-3.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-inclusion-1.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-inclusion-2.jpg Does anyone know what this inclusion might be? Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Weird inclusion in NWA 2086 CV3
Hi Mike...great looking stuff. Are you putting this up for sale? As far as the brown...naa I'm not going to do it... the best.. Barry On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 8:28 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi List, Has anyone ever seen an inclusion like this in a CV3 meteorite? It is a brown. featureless, area that snakes through the surrounding matrix and chondrules. I have seen light and dark inclusions in different carbonaceous meteorites, including Allende, but I have not seen an inclusion like this one. I cut several fragments of this meteorite and most had a predominately dark-matrix lithology. One fragment had a small portion of dark matrix lithology, and a predominate lighter-grey matrix lithology. It was in this light-matrix stone that this weird glassy brown inclusion appeared during cutting. It resembles caramel and has a slick texture compared to the rest of the meteorite. Under the loupe, it appears very fine grained, almost glassy, like an olivine. It does not appear to be oxidation of any kind. The inclusion ran through the entire fragment and I have 4 different pieces that show it. Besides this inclusion, there is the expected mixture of chondrules and CAI's. The pieces shown in the photos are rough-sawn - no sanding or polishing yet. The pieces shown are an endcut and a slice. The endcut weighs 5.18g and the slice weighs 3.27g. The close-up photo of the ? (question mark) shaped inclusion is the clearest. I'll try to snap some better photos tomorrow under outside natural lighting. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-inclusion-3.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-inclusion-1.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-inclusion-2.jpg Does anyone know what this inclusion might be? Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Weird inclusion in NWA 2086 CV3
Hey Mike, Almost looks like staining (rust) to me especially in photos 2 and 3. Bob On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 8:28 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi List, Has anyone ever seen an inclusion like this in a CV3 meteorite? It is a brown. featureless, area that snakes through the surrounding matrix and chondrules. I have seen light and dark inclusions in different carbonaceous meteorites, including Allende, but I have not seen an inclusion like this one. I cut several fragments of this meteorite and most had a predominately dark-matrix lithology. One fragment had a small portion of dark matrix lithology, and a predominate lighter-grey matrix lithology. It was in this light-matrix stone that this weird glassy brown inclusion appeared during cutting. It resembles caramel and has a slick texture compared to the rest of the meteorite. Under the loupe, it appears very fine grained, almost glassy, like an olivine. It does not appear to be oxidation of any kind. The inclusion ran through the entire fragment and I have 4 different pieces that show it. Besides this inclusion, there is the expected mixture of chondrules and CAI's. The pieces shown in the photos are rough-sawn - no sanding or polishing yet. The pieces shown are an endcut and a slice. The endcut weighs 5.18g and the slice weighs 3.27g. The close-up photo of the ? (question mark) shaped inclusion is the clearest. I'll try to snap some better photos tomorrow under outside natural lighting. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-inclusion-3.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-inclusion-1.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/2086-inclusion-2.jpg Does anyone know what this inclusion might be? Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
