Re: [meteorite-list] ill need more
Wow Dave, I hadn't thought of that possibility. They had a celebratory barbeque (or maybe sacrifice to the God of thunderstones), and the dog was the munchies of honor. I can see that. David __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ill need more
Mark has done an excellent job in researching and publishing these fabricated accounts to the List. Here are a few of the more memorable ones: February 22, 1934 -US-Meteor Crushes Spanish Home http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/02221934.htm December 22, 1928 -US-Meteor Fall Kills Woman Baby http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/12221928.htm July 29, 1925 -US-Meteors fall in Neb and SD http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/7291925.htm September 12, 1922 -US-Meteor Discharges Gas In Its Flight http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/9121922.htm January 17, 1916 -US-Meteor Explodes Before Bank and Church http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/01171916.html December 14, 1915 Large Meteorite Kills Three Dogs -Alaska- http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/12141915.htm November 21, 1914 -US-Falling Meteor Digs Up Tunips http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/11211914.htm August 31, 1913 -Spain-Aerolite Wrecks Village http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/8311913.htm January 26, 1907 -US-Meteor Exploded Near Powder Car http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/01261907.htm April 19, 1906 -US-Found Meteor Fragment http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/04191906.htm September 10, 1904 -US-Meteor Explodes on Farm http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/9101904.htm November 17, 1899 -US-Meteorite Wrecks Dwelling http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/11171899.htm July 14, 1896 -Mexico-Meteorite Kills Children, Brings Rain http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/7141896.htm May 8, 1895 -Newfoundland-Hit By A Meteor http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/581895.htm December 03, 1892 -US-Part of a Comet? http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/11031892.htm February 09, 1891 -Hungary-The Work of an Aerolite http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/2091891.htm March 14, 1890 -US-Meteorite Fall Cooks Fish Dinner http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/03141890.htm June 13, 1887 -US-An Immense Meteor http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/6131887.htm July 21, 1886 -US-A Meteoric Stone Takes A Trip To Wisconsin http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/7211886.htm January 19, 1879 -US-The Murderous Meteorite http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/mm.html November 14, 1817 -France-Paris Fall http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/11141817.htm Best, Ken Newton MARK BOSTICK wrote: Michael Blood asked: However, I was wondering what the NAME of this meteorite is Zvezvan is not listed in Meteorites A to Z. Because newspaper reports are not always correct. I wouldn't add any of these to your list either Michael. http://www.meteoritearticles.com/meteorwrongsMT.html Clear Skies, Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ill need more AGAIN
Here's the article you requested: New York Times, March 11 1897, p. 1 EXPLOSION OF A METEOR --- One Man Rendered Unconscious and the Head of a Horse Crushed Parkersburg, West Va., March 10. - A meteor burst over the town of New Martinsville yesterday. The noise of the explosion resembled the shock of a heavy artillery salute, and was heard for twenty miles. The cylindrical shaped ball of fire was forging along in a southwesterly direction when first discovered. The hissing sound of the fire could be heard for miles, and the smoke gave the meteor the appearance of a burning balloon. When the meteor exploded the pieces flew in all directions, like a volcanic upheaval, and solid walls were pierced by the fragments. David Leisure was knocked down by the force of the air caused by the rapidity with which the body passed, before it broke. The blow rendered him unconscious. One horse had its head crushed and nearly torn from the trunk by a fragment of the meteor, and another horse in the next stall was discovered to be stone deaf. The coming of the meteor was heralded by a rumbling noise, followed in an instant by the hissing sound, and immediately the ball of fire, spitting and smoking, burst into full view, and before the people had time to collect their senses, the explosion occurred. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ill need more AGAIN
One horse had its head crushed and nearly torn from the trunk by a fragment of the meteor, and another horse in the next stall was discovered to be stone deaf. stone deaf. Intentional pun? Cheers, Pete From: Jeffrey Shallit [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ill need more AGAIN Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 07:17:09 -0500 (EST) Here's the article you requested: New York Times, March 11 1897, p. 1 EXPLOSION OF A METEOR --- One Man Rendered Unconscious and the Head of a Horse Crushed Parkersburg, West Va., March 10. - A meteor burst over the town of New Martinsville yesterday. The noise of the explosion resembled the shock of a heavy artillery salute, and was heard for twenty miles. The cylindrical shaped ball of fire was forging along in a southwesterly direction when first discovered. The hissing sound of the fire could be heard for miles, and the smoke gave the meteor the appearance of a burning balloon. When the meteor exploded the pieces flew in all directions, like a volcanic upheaval, and solid walls were pierced by the fragments. David Leisure was knocked down by the force of the air caused by the rapidity with which the body passed, before it broke. The blow rendered him unconscious. One horse had its head crushed and nearly torn from the trunk by a fragment of the meteor, and another horse in the next stall was discovered to be stone deaf. The coming of the meteor was heralded by a rumbling noise, followed in an instant by the hissing sound, and immediately the ball of fire, spitting and smoking, burst into full view, and before the people had time to collect their senses, the explosion occurred. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Dont waste time standing in linetry shopping online. Visit Sympatico / MSN Shopping today! http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ill need more
Hi Mark, Ken, all - The problem as I see it is that if the exposure of these frauds is not given with them, then people will continue to be swindled by them. The original writers made money with these frauds the first time around, and there are still writers today who are interested in making money. good hunting, EP --- ken newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark has done an excellent job in researching and publishing these fabricated accounts to the List. Here are a few of the more memorable ones: February 22, 1934 -US-Meteor Crushes Spanish Home http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/02221934.htm December 22, 1928 -US-Meteor Fall Kills Woman Baby http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/12221928.htm July 29, 1925 -US-Meteors fall in Neb and SD http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/7291925.htm September 12, 1922 -US-Meteor Discharges Gas In Its Flight http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/9121922.htm January 17, 1916 -US-Meteor Explodes Before Bank and Church http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/01171916.html December 14, 1915 Large Meteorite Kills Three Dogs -Alaska- http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/12141915.htm November 21, 1914 -US-Falling Meteor Digs Up Tunips http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/11211914.htm August 31, 1913 -Spain-Aerolite Wrecks Village http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/8311913.htm January 26, 1907 -US-Meteor Exploded Near Powder Car http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/01261907.htm April 19, 1906 -US-Found Meteor Fragment http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/04191906.htm September 10, 1904 -US-Meteor Explodes on Farm http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/9101904.htm November 17, 1899 -US-Meteorite Wrecks Dwelling http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/11171899.htm July 14, 1896 -Mexico-Meteorite Kills Children, Brings Rain http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/7141896.htm May 8, 1895 -Newfoundland-Hit By A Meteor http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/581895.htm December 03, 1892 -US-Part of a Comet? http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/11031892.htm February 09, 1891 -Hungary-The Work of an Aerolite http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/2091891.htm March 14, 1890 -US-Meteorite Fall Cooks Fish Dinner http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/03141890.htm June 13, 1887 -US-An Immense Meteor http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/6131887.htm July 21, 1886 -US-A Meteoric Stone Takes A Trip To Wisconsin http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/7211886.htm January 19, 1879 -US-The Murderous Meteorite http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/mm.html November 14, 1817 -France-Paris Fall http://home.earthlink.net/~mwnews/11141817.htm Best, Ken Newton MARK BOSTICK wrote: Michael Blood asked: However, I was wondering what the NAME of this meteorite is Zvezvan is not listed in Meteorites A to Z. Because newspaper reports are not always correct. I wouldn't add any of these to your list either Michael. http://www.meteoritearticles.com/meteorwrongsMT.html Clear Skies, Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ill need more AGAIN
Hi Sterling - Thanks much for the link. The Rev. Dick's work was probably the ultimate source for the face on mars stuff we see today. Incorporated into American spiritualist movements, Dick's nonsense lives on to today. My favorite hoax was a trans-Atlantic balloon crossing fabricated by Edgar Allen Poe to avenge himself on an editor who had stiffed him. good hunting, E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas --- Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Mark is certainly correct about the hoaxing propensities of 19th century (and early 20th century) newspapers. The ultimate example is that is the Great Moon Hoax of 1832: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Moon_Hoax You will note that Mark's list is of very dramatic accounts. OK, the death of a wedding guest has a certain drama, but the death of a horse in West Virginia is not the stuff of a real blockbuster. To be sure, we need to be certain. Somebody has to go there, get the stone, and do all the scientific dirty work. BUT, that does not mean the obverse, that all unverified events are untrue, hoaxes, folk tales, urban legends, and the like. SOME are; others are not. When we get back to older historical records, they are most often just that: records, official, never made public, internal documents, private correspondence, and so forth. Gervase of Canterbury's description of a dramatic Lunar impact event witnessed on the evening of June 18, 1178, was recorded in the day book of the monastery and not discovered for many centuries; it was not sent immediately to cable TV. [Currently that event is on the debunking calendar: http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news118.html but the debunker's arguments are themselves bunk, well, that's not the topic here.] But, in Mark's wonderful collection of newspaper accounts of real meteorites that actually fell, one will find lots of bizarre details that sound fake. So, if REAL falls produce partially unbelievable accounts, why should a reasonably sober account be dismissed out of hand? Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: MARK BOSTICK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ill need more Michael Blood asked: However, I was wondering what the NAME of this meteorite is Zvezvan is not listed in Meteorites A to Z. Because newspaper reports are not always correct. I wouldn't add any of these to your list either Michael. http://www.meteoritearticles.com/meteorwrongsMT.html Clear Skies, Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ill need more
Hi Sterling - To state the obvisous, fire was the primary way of cooking food and heating in those days, and accounts of fires must be read in that light. good hunting, E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas --- Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Michael, Jeffrey, List Michael, as you well know, if the stone is not preserved, conserved, abducted by a museum, university, or government agency, examined by a geologist, mineralogist, scholar, savant, published, mentioned, noted, or abstracted, and then, in more scientific times, cut, sectioned, analyzed, poked in the noble gases and asked to cough --- it does not exist. There is no meteorite named ZVEZVAN, no entries in the Catalogue, no specimens, no slices, no nothing. Just an article in the NYTimes and one dead wedding guest. Not much, unless the wedding guest mattered to you. Doesn't mean it didn't happen. What? Slow news day in Zvezvan? There are innumerable historical accounts of fabulous events for which at the time there was no rational explanation that are perfectly and consistently what would be expected from a meteorite that are presently blythely dismissed as being without proof. There is a well-known case of a Franciscan monk of Milan being killed by a meteorite striking him in the leg (17th century). This is a much disputed account despite a large number of witness and perfectly consistent details. It was called a celestial stoning, the notion of meteorites being unknown at the time, and was widely reported and well attested, but is widely regarded by the experts of today as the report of the ignorant and the credulous. Then, in 1985, a historian quite accidentally discovered a lengthy account written by the physician who attempted to save the monk's life (and failed). The autopsy report is clear: the man's thigh was punctured side-to-side by a blocky piece of heavy dark stone larger than a bullet; the wound would have been survivable except that the stone severed the femoral artery and the victim bled out. Those 17th century guys just didn't realize that without a video tape of the whole thing, nobody was ever going to believe them! No guest shot on Oprah for them... But, frankly, to dismiss entirely these accounts for which there is no inherent clause for dismissal as the report of the ignorant and the credulous is... What's the word? Oh, yes: ignorant and credulous. But I'm just re-iterating in a minor way the discussion in Chap. 13 of Lewis book. Go read that, an excellent book on meteorites. Jeffrey, if you have archival access to the NYT, you might try for March 11, 1897 (1:4) account of a meteorite whose fragments pierced walls, killed one horse, injured another, and knocked out cold a man named David Leisure, in New Martinsville, West Virginia, apparently an explosive air-burst. (That's all I have, and that may have been all that was in the Times.) As for the glowing hot references in such accounts, that is the result of one of the great fallacies of human perception and need not invalidate an account. Ascribing heat to meteorites is akin to seeing lightening as red. Before 1800, in the many hundreds of descriptions of lightening to be found in the literatures of every culture on the planet, lightening is described as being red in color. I accumulated 700 references to the color of lightening prior to the late 18th century and found only one reference to blue lightening; ALL others were red. Since the early 19th century, lightening is always described as blue, blue-white, bluish white. Why? Better eyesight nowadays? No. Before 1800, everyone knew lightening was fire from heaven, and fire is red. Now, everyone knows that lightening is electrical, a gigantic atmospheric spark, and electricity is blue (or blue-white). Any (and every) fool knows that. Human beings DO NOT SEE what's in front of them; they DO SEE what they know to be true. They know meteorites are fiery objects, so they're hot. Reality has nothing to do with it. A great many genuine in-the-book historical falls come with witness descriptions of hot rocks. Whether there are ever any real hot rocks is impossible to determine because they're going to be reported as hot whether they were or not. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jeffrey Shallit [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ill need more Hi Jeffrey, Thanks! However, I was wondering what the NAME of this meteorite is Zvezvan is not listed in Meteorites A to Z. Michael on 2/24/07 5:26 PM
Re: [meteorite-list] ill need more
Dear Sterling; There are innumerable historical accounts of fabulous events for which at the time there was no rational explanation that are perfectly and consistently what would be expected from a meteorite that are presently blythely dismissed as being without proof. Sort of reminds me of that dog discussion, did the dog die from being bumped in the head by the meteorite or was he just turned to ashes because he was barbecued? Long live Nakhala dog and other odd stories that can't be proven like this one. Dave F. latenight Sterling K. Webb wrote: Hi, Michael, Jeffrey, List Michael, as you well know, if the stone is not preserved, conserved, abducted by a museum, university, or government agency, examined by a geologist, mineralogist, scholar, savant, published, mentioned, noted, or abstracted, and then, in more scientific times, cut, sectioned, analyzed, poked in the noble gases and asked to cough --- it does not exist. There is no meteorite named ZVEZVAN, no entries in the Catalogue, no specimens, no slices, no nothing. Just an article in the NYTimes and one dead wedding guest. Not much, unless the wedding guest mattered to you. Doesn't mean it didn't happen. What? Slow news day in Zvezvan? There are innumerable historical accounts of fabulous events for which at the time there was no rational explanation that are perfectly and consistently what would be expected from a meteorite that are presently blythely dismissed as being without proof. There is a well-known case of a Franciscan monk of Milan being killed by a meteorite striking him in the leg (17th century). This is a much disputed account despite a large number of witness and perfectly consistent details. It was called a celestial stoning, the notion of meteorites being unknown at the time, and was widely reported and well attested, but is widely regarded by the experts of today as the report of the ignorant and the credulous. Then, in 1985, a historian quite accidentally discovered a lengthy account written by the physician who attempted to save the monk's life (and failed). The autopsy report is clear: the man's thigh was punctured side-to-side by a blocky piece of heavy dark stone larger than a bullet; the wound would have been survivable except that the stone severed the femoral artery and the victim bled out. Those 17th century guys just didn't realize that without a video tape of the whole thing, nobody was ever going to believe them! No guest shot on Oprah for them... But, frankly, to dismiss entirely these accounts for which there is no inherent clause for dismissal as the report of the ignorant and the credulous is... What's the word? Oh, yes: ignorant and credulous. But I'm just re-iterating in a minor way the discussion in Chap. 13 of Lewis book. Go read that, an excellent book on meteorites. Jeffrey, if you have archival access to the NYT, you might try for March 11, 1897 (1:4) account of a meteorite whose fragments pierced walls, killed one horse, injured another, and knocked out cold a man named David Leisure, in New Martinsville, West Virginia, apparently an explosive air-burst. (That's all I have, and that may have been all that was in the Times.) As for the glowing hot references in such accounts, that is the result of one of the great fallacies of human perception and need not invalidate an account. Ascribing heat to meteorites is akin to seeing lightening as red. Before 1800, in the many hundreds of descriptions of lightening to be found in the literatures of every culture on the planet, lightening is described as being red in color. I accumulated 700 references to the color of lightening prior to the late 18th century and found only one reference to blue lightening; ALL others were red. Since the early 19th century, lightening is always described as blue, blue-white, bluish white. Why? Better eyesight nowadays? No. Before 1800, everyone knew lightening was fire from heaven, and fire is red. Now, everyone knows that lightening is electrical, a gigantic atmospheric spark, and electricity is blue (or blue-white). Any (and every) fool knows that. Human beings DO NOT SEE what's in front of them; they DO SEE what they know to be true. They know meteorites are fiery objects, so they're hot. Reality has nothing to do with it. A great many genuine in-the-book historical falls come with witness descriptions of hot rocks. Whether there are ever any real hot rocks is impossible to determine because they're going to be reported as hot whether they were or not. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jeffrey Shallit [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ill need more Hi Jeffrey, Thanks! However, I
Re: [meteorite-list] ill need more
Hi Jeffrey, Thanks! However, I was wondering what the NAME of this meteorite is Zvezvan is not listed in Meteorites A to Z. Michael on 2/24/07 5:26 PM, Jeffrey Shallit at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ask and ye shall receive: Little thing like a meteor fails to discourage bride New York Times December 8 1929 p. E1 Special correspondence of the New York Times Belgrade, Nov. 20. - The heavens blessed a bride in unwonted and unwelcome form in the village of Zvezvan today. As the wedding party was nearing the church a meteor fell into one of the carriages immediately in front of that in which the bride was seated. One of the wedding guests, a man, was killed, the woman sitting opposite him was badly injured and the bride fainted. The crowd scattered in panic, but after a brief delay the marriage was duly solemnized. The meteor, which was glowing hot, measured forty centimeters in diameter. -- You can complain because roses have thorns, or you can rejoice because thorns have roses. - Ziggy - in a comic strip by Tom Wilson -- __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ill need more
Michael Blood asked: However, I was wondering what the NAME of this meteorite is Zvezvan is not listed in Meteorites A to Z. Because newspaper reports are not always correct. I wouldn't add any of these to your list either Michael. http://www.meteoritearticles.com/meteorwrongsMT.html Clear Skies, Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ill need more
Hi, Michael, Jeffrey, List Michael, as you well know, if the stone is not preserved, conserved, abducted by a museum, university, or government agency, examined by a geologist, mineralogist, scholar, savant, published, mentioned, noted, or abstracted, and then, in more scientific times, cut, sectioned, analyzed, poked in the noble gases and asked to cough --- it does not exist. There is no meteorite named ZVEZVAN, no entries in the Catalogue, no specimens, no slices, no nothing. Just an article in the NYTimes and one dead wedding guest. Not much, unless the wedding guest mattered to you. Doesn't mean it didn't happen. What? Slow news day in Zvezvan? There are innumerable historical accounts of fabulous events for which at the time there was no rational explanation that are perfectly and consistently what would be expected from a meteorite that are presently blythely dismissed as being without proof. There is a well-known case of a Franciscan monk of Milan being killed by a meteorite striking him in the leg (17th century). This is a much disputed account despite a large number of witness and perfectly consistent details. It was called a celestial stoning, the notion of meteorites being unknown at the time, and was widely reported and well attested, but is widely regarded by the experts of today as the report of the ignorant and the credulous. Then, in 1985, a historian quite accidentally discovered a lengthy account written by the physician who attempted to save the monk's life (and failed). The autopsy report is clear: the man's thigh was punctured side-to-side by a blocky piece of heavy dark stone larger than a bullet; the wound would have been survivable except that the stone severed the femoral artery and the victim bled out. Those 17th century guys just didn't realize that without a video tape of the whole thing, nobody was ever going to believe them! No guest shot on Oprah for them... But, frankly, to dismiss entirely these accounts for which there is no inherent clause for dismissal as the report of the ignorant and the credulous is... What's the word? Oh, yes: ignorant and credulous. But I'm just re-iterating in a minor way the discussion in Chap. 13 of Lewis book. Go read that, an excellent book on meteorites. Jeffrey, if you have archival access to the NYT, you might try for March 11, 1897 (1:4) account of a meteorite whose fragments pierced walls, killed one horse, injured another, and knocked out cold a man named David Leisure, in New Martinsville, West Virginia, apparently an explosive air-burst. (That's all I have, and that may have been all that was in the Times.) As for the glowing hot references in such accounts, that is the result of one of the great fallacies of human perception and need not invalidate an account. Ascribing heat to meteorites is akin to seeing lightening as red. Before 1800, in the many hundreds of descriptions of lightening to be found in the literatures of every culture on the planet, lightening is described as being red in color. I accumulated 700 references to the color of lightening prior to the late 18th century and found only one reference to blue lightening; ALL others were red. Since the early 19th century, lightening is always described as blue, blue-white, bluish white. Why? Better eyesight nowadays? No. Before 1800, everyone knew lightening was fire from heaven, and fire is red. Now, everyone knows that lightening is electrical, a gigantic atmospheric spark, and electricity is blue (or blue-white). Any (and every) fool knows that. Human beings DO NOT SEE what's in front of them; they DO SEE what they know to be true. They know meteorites are fiery objects, so they're hot. Reality has nothing to do with it. A great many genuine in-the-book historical falls come with witness descriptions of hot rocks. Whether there are ever any real hot rocks is impossible to determine because they're going to be reported as hot whether they were or not. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jeffrey Shallit [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ill need more Hi Jeffrey, Thanks! However, I was wondering what the NAME of this meteorite is Zvezvan is not listed in Meteorites A to Z. Michael on 2/24/07 5:26 PM, Jeffrey Shallit at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ask and ye shall receive: Little thing like a meteor fails to discourage bride New York Times December 8 1929 p. E1 Special correspondence of the New York Times Belgrade, Nov. 20. - The heavens blessed a bride in unwonted and unwelcome form in the village of Zvezvan today. As the wedding party was nearing the church a meteor fell into one of the carriages
Re: [meteorite-list] ill need more AGAIN
Hi, Mark is certainly correct about the hoaxing propensities of 19th century (and early 20th century) newspapers. The ultimate example is that is the Great Moon Hoax of 1832: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Moon_Hoax You will note that Mark's list is of very dramatic accounts. OK, the death of a wedding guest has a certain drama, but the death of a horse in West Virginia is not the stuff of a real blockbuster. To be sure, we need to be certain. Somebody has to go there, get the stone, and do all the scientific dirty work. BUT, that does not mean the obverse, that all unverified events are untrue, hoaxes, folk tales, urban legends, and the like. SOME are; others are not. When we get back to older historical records, they are most often just that: records, official, never made public, internal documents, private correspondence, and so forth. Gervase of Canterbury's description of a dramatic Lunar impact event witnessed on the evening of June 18, 1178, was recorded in the day book of the monastery and not discovered for many centuries; it was not sent immediately to cable TV. [Currently that event is on the debunking calendar: http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news118.html but the debunker's arguments are themselves bunk, well, that's not the topic here.] But, in Mark's wonderful collection of newspaper accounts of real meteorites that actually fell, one will find lots of bizarre details that sound fake. So, if REAL falls produce partially unbelievable accounts, why should a reasonably sober account be dismissed out of hand? Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: MARK BOSTICK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ill need more Michael Blood asked: However, I was wondering what the NAME of this meteorite is Zvezvan is not listed in Meteorites A to Z. Because newspaper reports are not always correct. I wouldn't add any of these to your list either Michael. http://www.meteoritearticles.com/meteorwrongsMT.html Clear Skies, Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ill need more
. Webb - - Original Message - From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jeffrey Shallit [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ill need more Hi Jeffrey, Thanks! However, I was wondering what the NAME of this meteorite is Zvezvan is not listed in Meteorites A to Z. Michael on 2/24/07 5:26 PM, Jeffrey Shallit at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ask and ye shall receive: Little thing like a meteor fails to discourage bride New York Times December 8 1929 p. E1 Special correspondence of the New York Times Belgrade, Nov. 20. - The heavens blessed a bride in unwonted and unwelcome form in the village of Zvezvan today. As the wedding party was nearing the church a meteor fell into one of the carriages immediately in front of that in which the bride was seated. One of the wedding guests, a man, was killed, the woman sitting opposite him was badly injured and the bride fainted. The crowd scattered in panic, but after a brief delay the marriage was duly solemnized. The meteor, which was glowing hot, measured forty centimeters in diameter. -- You can complain because roses have thorns, or you can rejoice because thorns have roses. - Ziggy - in a comic strip by Tom Wilson -- -- You can complain because roses have thorns, or you can rejoice because thorns have roses. - Ziggy - in a comic strip by Tom Wilson -- __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
