AW: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
Each meteorite has its time. Nowadays the usual price for Murchison is 60-100$/g. 7-5 years ago it was at 50-100$/g. A German collector told me, that shortly after the fall, he sent a letter to Murchison enquiring about the circumstances of this new fall. A while later a parcel came back, with nice wording and because in Murchison they were so delighted, that somebody from such a far country paid attention to that fall, they added a 50g stone for free as a little thank you. It is very simple. Meteorites are the rarest good on Earth. If from a locales the lion share is once distributed, the prices are getting higher. The pattern with new falls nowadays is always the same. First there is a hype, many fear to miss out, the first one or two offerers make the price. Depending on the quantity available and the number of additional offerors getting access to the material, the price will fall. After a while, when most of the material is gone, the prices will raise again, not so seldom transcending the initial prices. To expect a meteorite offeror to give away his goodies at the all-time lowest price, is silly. In acquiring material, he has to bear also often the same price fluctuations as the collector too and anyway they are working with lower profit than your next MomPop grocery shop around the corner. To expect a dealer to sell an Allende at 30cents/g, a Zagami at 50$/g or a Gibeon at 30$/kg, because in some golden days they were sold like this or to snigger at collectors, who are willing to purchase at higher prices today is so meaningful as to pay at present 30$/g for Campo because Ward and Cohen did so 100 years ago or to give 8$/g and 12$/g for Sikhote and Brahin as it was paid a dozen years ago or to spent 600$/g for a desert acapulcoite. The supply of meteoritical material is extremely limited, a fact of which many collectors, especially the newer ones aren't aware and in future only a very small fraction of that amount of material hitting the market in our fat years will be available. The comparably easy availability and the extreme low prices are solely caused by the evanescently small number of specialized collectors, the release of the new desert finds within a few years only and finally by the dedication of the professional and non-professional meteorite offerors. The transfiguration and praise of the good ol' Golden days I can't share. Certainly in the 70ies, 80ies and partially still in the 90ies locales today highly paid were cheap (but by far not all), but there were at the best not more than perhaps 200 different locales permanently available, we had a handful of offerors, the communication was slow and the possibility for a collector to compare prices was very limited. Now, those very days, the collector can choose from 10,000 meteorites, among them the absolutely rarest types at ridiculous low prices, which one in former times simply couldn't find or where one had to go in debt to afford a specimen larger than a fingernail. Internet lead to a much higher transparency, the number of offerors and collectors hasn't increased to such an extend, that the meteorite scene wouldn't be cosy and familial anymore (or for some: so exclusively), on contrary through the possibility of immediate communication via internet, the members in the Petri dish got much more closer than ever. (O.k. disadvantage is, that you have to abide such insupportable prattlers like me). Maybe from the psychology of collecting the veterans could have the sensation, that the present times are poorer as it takes much less efforts to get a rare stone into one's collection, so that there isn't such a thrill left. But does this change the properties of the material, have the stones themselves changed?? Does a remarkably lower price derogate the properties of and the fascination about a meteorite? O tempora, o mores - I bet in 20 or already in 10 years lugubriously we will think back to the early years of the new millennium, where one could buy a Moon at thousand bucks, a howardite at 5$ and where we had the full palette of types. Legends will be built about that Canadian selling chondrites by the tons at prices of fancy cakes, about the keen Russian hunters blowing out lunaites - one slice each to fill the tanks of their jeeps with diesel - about a funny guy always jumping in the plane, when he heard about a new fall, spending 90% of his income for travels, about collectors bitterly complaining, that the sellers betrayed them in asking 3$ to much shipment costs for their 20g ureilite slices, about buyers rejecting offers for Moons at 500$, cause it would be to risky, about two strange guys bringing out each week small polished sliced of the most whack exotics throwing them away in hundred auctions per week, about flame wars between dealers, whether 5$ more or less per gram for an eucrite would be a bottomless daylight robbery, about some French carving cheesy figurines from meteorites, about desert hunters not picking up
AW: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
Little addendum: in remembering the prices from past days, we always forget about the inflation. I just found that nice tool: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ According this calculator, USA had an inflation of roughly 50% from 1990 to 2005. And 150% from 1980 to 2005. Sniff, I paid 2$/g 1986 for Chinga at Carion. Would be 3.50$/g today... Uuuh, Buehler asked 8 years ago 7.43$/g for the first Udei Stations! Would be now: 8.7$/g. Hey, we have a slice left: 5.5$/g + 3$ ship. Buckleboo! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von David Weir Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Oktober 2006 11:52 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference Don, Perhaps some people remember that Murchison typically sold for $30-40/g a dozen years ago and refuse to see the justification for such high pricing today, while others newer to the scene are content to buy high. David __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
have an old piece of space rubble than a shining ingot of gold. That fall, ... hmmm ... two tons? Let's see. Each collector can have a couple of kilos. How much is a gram worth? Let German eBay figure it out. Unsatisfied, they will try to negotiate with the nouveau rich of a unified China. have you ever negotiated with them? They're a lot tougher than Germans... Oh yes, the locked up in museums defense. Maybe the Ensisheim Stone won't crack its shackles. Which other ones are so locked up...there must be a few less speculative investments no doubt, like that. But no guarantees...that's why its called business... Right now you can buy a gram of Eucrite for the price of a Big Mac hamburger. We can revisit that ratio when the US starts paying back $400 billion for Iraq and faces high oil prices despite best intentions. Then we can see is a gram of Lunar meteorites can fill my gas tank. (or maybe 10 grams a Russian's tank). Maybe Martians will be $10,000 per gram:) As long as gas isn't $200 per liter Then I'll send you some Dutch tulip bulbs to start a garden. Have a cup of Earl Grey and reminisce about when a good marketer could painfully break even buying and selling meteorites. Meteorites are not rarer than antiques. They are not rarer than anything that can be described as unique. There are a lot of unique things out there. They are rocks with a great story. And we do just love them. Money and love don't always mix well, though. Sometimes when it rains it pours and when it is dry, it's parched as a bone. Speculating about speculating is quite a spectacle, economists are never wrong! The problem is when they really start believing what they say...and convince everyone else that forward looking statements in 10-K's are sure things ... and that 8-K's don't happen... Best wishes, Doug Above is fictitious scenario. No claims are made nor is it the intention to create expectations of truth. The future is unpredictable. Scenario planning is simply a useful tool to understand and manage risks. - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'David Weir' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 6:44 AM Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference Each meteorite has its time. Nowadays the usual price for Murchison is 60-100$/g. 7-5 years ago it was at 50-100$/g. A German collector told me, that shortly after the fall, he sent a letter to Murchison enquiring about the circumstances of this new fall. A while later a parcel came back, with nice wording and because in Murchison they were so delighted, that somebody from such a far country paid attention to that fall, they added a 50g stone for free as a little thank you. It is very simple. Meteorites are the rarest good on Earth. If from a locales the lion share is once distributed, the prices are getting higher. The pattern with new falls nowadays is always the same. First there is a hype, many fear to miss out, the first one or two offerers make the price. Depending on the quantity available and the number of additional offerors getting access to the material, the price will fall. After a while, when most of the material is gone, the prices will raise again, not so seldom transcending the initial prices. To expect a meteorite offeror to give away his goodies at the all-time lowest price, is silly. In acquiring material, he has to bear also often the same price fluctuations as the collector too and anyway they are working with lower profit than your next MomPop grocery shop around the corner. To expect a dealer to sell an Allende at 30cents/g, a Zagami at 50$/g or a Gibeon at 30$/kg, because in some golden days they were sold like this or to snigger at collectors, who are willing to purchase at higher prices today is so meaningful as to pay at present 30$/g for Campo because Ward and Cohen did so 100 years ago or to give 8$/g and 12$/g for Sikhote and Brahin as it was paid a dozen years ago or to spent 600$/g for a desert acapulcoite. The supply of meteoritical material is extremely limited, a fact of which many collectors, especially the newer ones aren't aware and in future only a very small fraction of that amount of material hitting the market in our fat years will be available. The comparably easy availability and the extreme low prices are solely caused by the evanescently small number of specialized collectors, the release of the new desert finds within a few years only and finally by the dedication of the professional and non-professional meteorite offerors. The transfiguration and praise of the good ol' Golden days I can't share. Certainly in the 70ies, 80ies and partially still in the 90ies locales today highly paid were cheap (but by far not all), but there were at the best not more than perhaps 200 different locales permanently available, we had a handful of offerors, the communication was slow and the possibility for a collector
AW: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
Doug wrote: In 20 years a Moon Colony will be established... Hi Doug, and All, 20 years ago a lot of people believed: In 20 years a Mars Colony will be established... In Kubrick's 2001 we even made it to Jupiter, and its moon Europa in a shorter period of time. And look at where we are now - they (ESA, NASA, etc.) are even having big troubles in getting the ISS ready until 2010, not to speak about returning to the Moon :-( Don't get me wrong, I'd be the first to book a room in the Luna Hilton, and I perfectly agree that our future is out there... I'm just trying to be a bit more realistic ,-) Just a few thoughts on the future from our snapshot in time. And before ideologies change and we catch up to it... Yeap, ideologies and paradigms change pretty fast, these days... But, to come back to meteorites, I believe Martin is right - meteorites are a non-renewable resource. Maybe they might be recycleable up to some point, as you say, but just imagine that the number of collectors might double in a few years, and then again double in a few years more, etc., and all those tiny stocks we have now will be a drop lost in an ocean. Exponentially yours, Norbert __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
Hi Don, although the difference is astounding and the seller decided to hide his feedback and to make anonymous the bid history - (I ask myself, why any seller is doing that in a branch, where a dealer essentially lives from his/her reputation??), I can assure you that it was no shill bidding, as I know the seller in person. He had also enormous defeats to bear on ebay before... Most ebay-meteorite-sellers will be able to explain, how such differences between prices for the very same stuff happen, but they won't do, because it would mean to judge the abilities of their clients on ebay Buckleboo! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Don Merchant Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Oktober 2006 00:18 An: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference Hi List. If I am out of line here I sincerely apologize to any and all I may offend. Can some one explain why such a HUGE difference in auction price! I'm confused here. Check out both auctions and compare. Maybe there is something I'm missing here except my wallet! Sincerely Don Merchant http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemih=011item=320021921340rd=1; sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AITrd=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemih=011item=320032119384rd=1; sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AITrd=1 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
