Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices
Dear friends, I agree with Guy and can assure that our slices have at least one side polished. We keep sometimes one side rough from sawing when it helps to see some details of the structure to appear compared with a polished surface that makes it darker, and when it does not affect structure details we polish both sides. But anyway, I agree that this information should always be indicated when proposing a slice for sale, a good picture of the item being also necessary for a buyer to know what he pays for. And in addition to that, polishing causes a loss of material, and even if some few collectors can polish themselves a slice that they have purchased, they should not pay for material that will go off later! All the best. Frederic Beroud www.meteoriteshow.com IMCA #2491 - Original Message - From: Guy Heinen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 5:46 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices Dear listies, what do you think about meteorite slices showing still the marks of the saw blade, giving you even the opportunity to calculate the saw blade's diameter? Alas, times of mirror-finished slices sold by dealers like David New seem to be gone. A proposal to dealers: Sell your slices or partslices a-quality: polished surface b-quality: sawed surface. Most meteorite collectors don't have grinding or polishing tools and are collecting meteorites also for the aesthetics of a mirror-finished surface showing fine details. A partslice showing saw marks is something very ugly. Some collectors seem to sublimate this ugliness by the thrill to held something extraterrestrial in their hands and are not demanding for a quality finished surface. My 2 (Euro)cents, Guy Heinen __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices
All, Happy new year everyone ang GO Spirit!!! Good points raised here by Guy. While we must recognize that some specimens cannot be polished due to their frangible nature others probably are not done because of the time and expense it takes. For those of us who have saw marks on some specimens, how can we go about polishing them out? All the best, Greg Redfern JPL NASA Solar System Ambassador http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/ambassador/index.html International Meteorite Collectors Association #5781 http://www.meteoritecollectors.org/ Member Meteoritical Society http://www.meteoriticalsociety.org/ Sorry I forgot something important! As polishing should be done under running water to get the best results, it is a good idea to dry your slices after. Letting them dry by themselves is a solution, but as it is a slow process (depending on the size of the slice and quantity of water trapped inside) and then metal flakes can start corroding on the surface (chondrites for instance). My advice is then to put them in the oven for about 20 to 40 minutes, at about 50°C, turning the slices up side down in the middle of the drying process. This is faster, and corrosion will not have time to develop. Bye now. Fred B - Lyon (France) __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices
100% agree! Fred B - Lyon (France) - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices Dear List Members, I agree, there are a lot of meteorites with saw marks ruining an otherwise good looking appearance offered by dealers. I see no reason a dealer should not invest in a diamond lap and use it other than trying to save money and time to increase profits. Yes, it cost money and the material losses add up but it is important for the following reasons: If a new collector purchases a poorly prepared specimen he may not appreciate the true beauty of meteorites and be turned off to collecting any more. Viewing of characteristics on a polished surface is far better than one with unsightly saw marks. If a dealer does not polish he or she probably does not take the time to dry out specimens cut in water. On the same note, they probably do not dissolve the oil left behind by the saw with ethyl alcohol ether. A slice with saw marks can not be wiped off properly after handling. The chemicals (sweat) left behind from touching a specimen will be trapped in the saw grooves causing metal to corrode and the matrix to become stained. Some dealers say only one side of a slice is viewed so only one side needs to be polished. I disagree, the customer is paying for a prepared slice and this means both sides should be polished for the same reasons listed above. I enjoy preparing specimens because it is part of my avocation. Polishing meteorite slices I find to be relaxing. There is nothing like seeing a properly prepared slice under magnification for the first time or the 10,000th time. Each surface is different and deserves decent preparation. We have never sold a cut specimen that was not polished on both sides except on a very rare occasion like a Nahklite which would turn to mud if such an attempt were made. The only excuse I see is if something is extraordinarily rare and a scientist advised against polishing it as has been the case on a few planetary meteorites we have worked on. Other specimens can be stabilized so there is no excuse for not polished cut examples. Sorry so long winded about this. Poor workmanship has always bothered me. All the best, Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection IMCA 2185 - Original Message - From: Guy Heinen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 8:46 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices Dear listies, what do you think about meteorite slices showing still the marks of the saw blade, giving you even the opportunity to calculate the saw blade's diameter? Alas, times of mirror-finished slices sold by dealers like David New seem to be gone. A proposal to dealers: Sell your slices or partslices a-quality: polished surface b-quality: sawed surface. Most meteorite collectors don't have grinding or polishing tools and are collecting meteorites also for the aesthetics of a mirror-finished surface showing fine details. A partslice showing saw marks is something very ugly. Some collectors seem to sublimate this ugliness by the thrill to held something extraterrestrial in their hands and are not demanding for a quality finished surface. My 2 (Euro)cents, Guy Heinen __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices
Yes, this take alot of time, You must have professional equipment and also You get another weight loses on specimen. But finish effect is usualy good and Your slices looks beautifull. And becouse I alvays polish my slices to mirror quality from 2 sides. -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of: Polish Meteoritical Society ] Dear listies, what do you think about meteorite slices showing still the marks of the saw blade, giving you even the opportunity to calculate the saw blade's diameter? Alas, times of mirror-finished slices sold by dealers like David New seem to be gone. A proposal to dealers: Sell your slices or partslices a-quality: polished surface b-quality: sawed surface. Most meteorite collectors don't have grinding or polishing tools and are collecting meteorites also for the aesthetics of a mirror-finished surface showing fine details. A partslice showing saw marks is something very ugly. Some collectors seem to sublimate this ugliness by the thrill to held something extraterrestrial in their hands and are not demanding for a quality finished surface. My 2 (Euro)cents, Guy Heinen __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices
I can confirm that. His slices are extremely beautiful, and he polishes even unclassified NWA stuff. _ Best regards, Bernhard Rendelius Rems CEO RPGDot Network This outgoing mail has been virus-checked. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of PolandMET.com Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 11:40 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices Yes, this take alot of time, You must have professional equipment and also You get another weight loses on specimen. But finish effect is usualy good and Your slices looks beautifull. And becouse I alvays polish my slices to mirror quality from 2 sides. -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of: Polish Meteoritical Society ] Dear listies, what do you think about meteorite slices showing still the marks of the saw blade, giving you even the opportunity to calculate the saw blade's diameter? Alas, times of mirror-finished slices sold by dealers like David New seem to be gone. A proposal to dealers: Sell your slices or partslices a-quality: polished surface b-quality: sawed surface. Most meteorite collectors don't have grinding or polishing tools and are collecting meteorites also for the aesthetics of a mirror-finished surface showing fine details. A partslice showing saw marks is something very ugly. Some collectors seem to sublimate this ugliness by the thrill to held something extraterrestrial in their hands and are not demanding for a quality finished surface. My 2 (Euro)cents, Guy Heinen __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices
Polishing can be done on a piece of leather with any of the synthetic alumina based polished. They are white and don't stain the slice like rouge or cerium oxide. Clean up is easy. You will need to make a slurry of the polish about the consistency of heavy cream. Use distilled water to make the liquid. Stroke randomly around on the hard leather using firm finger pressure. Not so much as to crack the slice though. Hello Can You tell me full name of this alumina based polished ? Becouse I use polishing dust produced from dwuchromian amonu (its a green dust) -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of: Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices
There seems to be some interest in this topic so I will add my procedures to the discussion. I cut everything in pure water (except irons which I rarely cut). It is harder on the saw blades, but there isn't a problem with additives on the slices. When a slice comes off, it is dried on a paper towel and put into a small container of ethyl alcohol. When I have finished cutting that meteorite all the slices are removed from the alcohol and allowed to dry on a paper towel in the sun while the next piece is cut. Nice to have a hot sunny climate most of the year. When everything is cut, it is off to the flat lap machine. When I first started in meteorites most slices were polished on a lapidary wheel and all the edges were rounded over. I hated the look and started sanding everything on a flat granite slab so the slices would be flat all the way to the edges. The lap machine makes things a lot easier. Pieces are lapped on a 220 grit diamond wheel on both sides using water. Lapped pieces are plopped into ethyl alcohol again until a batch is done. They are then put on a cookie sheet, propped on each other so air gets below as well as on top, and baked at 220 degrees for 30 minutes. They are never exposed to water again except for what is in the atmosphere. What happens next depends on the meteorite. I don't believe that all meteorites need to be polished. They need to be lapped flat to remove the saw marks, but polishing is another story. Selma for instance looks awful polished. It is a waste to even polish one side and any polishing beyond the 220 grit flat lap starts obscuring the visible chondrules. So after drying, Selma and others like it, get one more short lap on a dry 220 grit lap wheel. It probably isn't necessary, but I see it as removing any oxidation or surface contamination remaining from the water and ethyl alcohol and leaving a fresh dry surface. Some have mentioned weight loss as a reason for not sanding, but that is almost never a consideration in my sanding decisions. Weighing experiments over the years have shown that of a 15-20% cut loss only about 1-2% comes from sanding and most of that is in the flat lapping which I am doing anyway. So sanding or not sanding makes very little difference in the final weight. On most pieces the difference in final sanding is 0.1 grams or less. When I polish something new I polish up one side of one piece working with dry sand paper on my granite slab running through 220, 320, and 600 grits and sometimes 1200. I compare the piece each step of the way with an unpolished piece to see what looks better or shows off the structure better. It is an esthetics decision which I readily admit may or may not match others views. However, the purpose of the slice is to be displayed by somebody and the better it looks the more likely it will find a new home. So it is best to make it look good regardless of any weight loss or time expended finishing the slice. All things being equal the piece gets polished because it removes the lines from the flat lap. If polishing darkens a piece quite a bit usually I will polish one side and leave the other alone so the more natural lighter version can be seen as well. I don't ever put anything on a finished slice. If a buyer wants it coated it is easy for them to do, but not all buyers want things coated so I don't coat anything. I do all sanding by hand because I feel I have better control than on a flat lap. A couple tips for hand sanders (1) always end your polishing with a back and forth motion. Fine scratches left by the sand paper are less visible than with an orbital motion. (2) When sanding allende the CAIs will look dingy. Use a clean 600 grit paper and make a single quick short stroke to clean the CAIs leaving them bright white. Now that I have had the audacity to say not every meteorite needs to be polished those who disagree can start throwing rocks my way, just make them NWAs please. Eric Olson ELKK Meteorites http://www.star-bits.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices
Guy I fully agree with you. Almost all meteorites can be polished and it is a real work, much more than slicing. Polishing a large slice is not so easy. And the result is obviously what is expected by any customer. Best regards Michel FRANCO IMCA 3869 - Original Message - From: Guy Heinen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 5:46 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices Dear listies, what do you think about meteorite slices showing still the marks of the saw blade, giving you even the opportunity to calculate the saw blade's diameter? Alas, times of mirror-finished slices sold by dealers like David New seem to be gone. A proposal to dealers: Sell your slices or partslices a-quality: polished surface b-quality: sawed surface. Most meteorite collectors don't have grinding or polishing tools and are collecting meteorites also for the aesthetics of a mirror-finished surface showing fine details. A partslice showing saw marks is something very ugly. Some collectors seem to sublimate this ugliness by the thrill to held something extraterrestrial in their hands and are not demanding for a quality finished surface. My 2 (Euro)cents, Guy Heinen __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices
All, Happy new year everyone ang GO Spirit!!! Good points raised here by Guy. While we must recognize that some specimens cannot be polished due to their frangible nature others probably are not done because of the time and expense it takes. For those of us who have saw marks on some specimens, how can we go about polishing them out? All the best, Greg Redfern JPL NASA Solar System Ambassador http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/ambassador/index.html International Meteorite Collectors Association #5781 http://www.meteoritecollectors.org/ Member Meteoritical Society http://www.meteoriticalsociety.org/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Guy Heinen Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 11:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices Dear listies, what do you think about meteorite slices showing still the marks of the saw blade, giving you even the opportunity to calculate the saw blade's diameter? Alas, times of mirror-finished slices sold by dealers like David New seem to be gone. A proposal to dealers: Sell your slices or partslices a-quality: polished surface b-quality: sawed surface. Most meteorite collectors don't have grinding or polishing tools and are collecting meteorites also for the aesthetics of a mirror-finished surface showing fine details. A partslice showing saw marks is something very ugly. Some collectors seem to sublimate this ugliness by the thrill to held something extraterrestrial in their hands and are not demanding for a quality finished surface. My 2 (Euro)cents, Guy Heinen __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices
Hello I polished my cut slices personaly with my hands, I use in first a little rounded broken diamond blade for microbottoming drill over the all surface for eliminated the all signs of the blades, after I use papers with 150 - 400 - 800 grid and finaly, if possible, I use a 1200 grid. In conclusion I put over a varnish for restoration that uses my father in laboratory, if possible to use it on the piece. Regards Matteo --- Greg redfern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All, Happy new year everyone ang GO Spirit!!! Good points raised here by Guy. While we must recognize that some specimens cannot be polished due to their frangible nature others probably are not done because of the time and expense it takes. For those of us who have saw marks on some specimens, how can we go about polishing them out? All the best, Greg Redfern JPL NASA Solar System Ambassador http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/ambassador/index.html International Meteorite Collectors Association #5781 http://www.meteoritecollectors.org/ Member Meteoritical Society http://www.meteoriticalsociety.org/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Guy Heinen Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 11:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices Dear listies, what do you think about meteorite slices showing still the marks of the saw blade, giving you even the opportunity to calculate the saw blade's diameter? Alas, times of mirror-finished slices sold by dealers like David New seem to be gone. A proposal to dealers: Sell your slices or partslices a-quality: polished surface b-quality: sawed surface. Most meteorite collectors don't have grinding or polishing tools and are collecting meteorites also for the aesthetics of a mirror-finished surface showing fine details. A partslice showing saw marks is something very ugly. Some collectors seem to sublimate this ugliness by the thrill to held something extraterrestrial in their hands and are not demanding for a quality finished surface. My 2 (Euro)cents, Guy Heinen __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices
Hello List, Gee it has been awhile since I posted to the list. My article this month in MeteoriteTimes is on cutting and maybe a little helpful. It mostly describes the cutting process and how I do lapping after cutting. So here is a little more info. It is very possible and actually fairly easy to smooth off a slice using the wet and dry type of aluminum oxide sandpaper. I used it years ago before I made the lapping equipment. Use it dry and be careful about the dust created. It comes in many grits. Start with the 150 and go to 350 or 400, then use 600 and lastly 800. Keep the old worn out paper since it continues to work a little and the worn out 800 gives a nice pre polish. I used a piece of hard smooth plastic to stroke the slice on so that it did not get the turned down edge. Polishing can be done on a piece of leather with any of the synthetic alumina based polished. They are white and don't stain the slice like rouge or cerium oxide. Clean up is easy. You will need to make a slurry of the polish about the consistency of heavy cream. Use distilled water to make the liquid. Stroke randomly around on the hard leather using firm finger pressure. Not so much as to crack the slice though. One point though which I also make in the article is, not all meteorites are enhanced by high polishing. Some lose visible detail as the matrix darkens with polishing. But, to be sure all slices should be smooth and saw mark free before selling. Happy New Year by the way, and looking forward to seeing many of you in Tucson. Jim -- Jim Tobin [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Meteorite Exchange, Inc. PMB 455 PO Box 7000 Redondo Beach, CA 90277 USA www.meteorite.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices
Dear List Members, I agree, there are a lot of meteorites with saw marks ruining an otherwise good looking appearance offered by dealers. I see no reason a dealer should not invest in a diamond lap and use it other than trying to save money and time to increase profits. Yes, it cost money and the material losses add up but it is important for the following reasons: If a new collector purchases a poorly prepared specimen he may not appreciate the true beauty of meteorites and be turned off to collecting any more. Viewing of characteristics on a polished surface is far better than one with unsightly saw marks. If a dealer does not polish he or she probably does not take the time to dry out specimens cut in water. On the same note, they probably do not dissolve the oil left behind by the saw with ethyl alcohol ether. A slice with saw marks can not be wiped off properly after handling. The chemicals (sweat) left behind from touching a specimen will be trapped in the saw grooves causing metal to corrode and the matrix to become stained. Some dealers say only one side of a slice is viewed so only one side needs to be polished. I disagree, the customer is paying for a prepared slice and this means both sides should be polished for the same reasons listed above. I enjoy preparing specimens because it is part of my avocation. Polishing meteorite slices I find to be relaxing. There is nothing like seeing a properly prepared slice under magnification for the first time or the 10,000th time. Each surface is different and deserves decent preparation. We have never sold a cut specimen that was not polished on both sides except on a very rare occasion like a Nahklite which would turn to mud if such an attempt were made. The only excuse I see is if something is extraordinarily rare and a scientist advised against polishing it as has been the case on a few planetary meteorites we have worked on. Other specimens can be stabilized so there is no excuse for not polished cut examples. Sorry so long winded about this. Poor workmanship has always bothered me. All the best, Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection IMCA 2185 - Original Message - From: Guy Heinen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 8:46 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices Dear listies, what do you think about meteorite slices showing still the marks of the saw blade, giving you even the opportunity to calculate the saw blade's diameter? Alas, times of mirror-finished slices sold by dealers like David New seem to be gone. A proposal to dealers: Sell your slices or partslices a-quality: polished surface b-quality: sawed surface. Most meteorite collectors don't have grinding or polishing tools and are collecting meteorites also for the aesthetics of a mirror-finished surface showing fine details. A partslice showing saw marks is something very ugly. Some collectors seem to sublimate this ugliness by the thrill to held something extraterrestrial in their hands and are not demanding for a quality finished surface. My 2 (Euro)cents, Guy Heinen __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices
Guy, I have purchased many poorly sawed meteorites. Most of these I have successfully polished using emory paper on glass. It takes some muscle power and patients but with very little cash outlay you can get very professional results. Cheers, tett Owen Sound, Ontario - Original Message - From: Guy Heinen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 11:46 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite slices Dear listies, what do you think about meteorite slices showing still the marks of the saw blade, giving you even the opportunity to calculate the saw blade's diameter? Alas, times of mirror-finished slices sold by dealers like David New seem to be gone. A proposal to dealers: Sell your slices or partslices a-quality: polished surface b-quality: sawed surface. Most meteorite collectors don't have grinding or polishing tools and are collecting meteorites also for the aesthetics of a mirror-finished surface showing fine details. A partslice showing saw marks is something very ugly. Some collectors seem to sublimate this ugliness by the thrill to held something extraterrestrial in their hands and are not demanding for a quality finished surface. My 2 (Euro)cents, Guy Heinen __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
