Re: [meteorite-list] Baygorria vs Campo
Hi Jason, Mike and all, Baygorria is NOT Campo. Here is the story: E.T. Recovered Baygorria. However, while he was in The midst of cutting, etching distributing it, another dealer distributed dozens of slices of Campo AS BAYGORRIA to numerous institutions and individuals. This ultimately lead to multiple institutions stating that Baygorria was not a separate fall, but merely Campo sold under a different name. Ask E.T. About this. Michael On 2/28/13 10:24 PM, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Mike, All, Good catch. Uruacu's something else, while Baygorria is Campo, along with Las Palmas and a few other newbies supposedly from...other places. Gotta love globalization... Jason On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Uruacu could hardly be more different than Campo. Jason, are you confusing Baygorria with Uruacu? I saw Adam mention Baygorria (which is a total scam to claim campo under another name). Uruacu from Brazil is an extremely stable iron. It is old, but amazingly when cut is perfect and so have yet to see a piece that rusts on a cut surface. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Feb 28, 2013, at 11:31 PM, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Adam, All, Actually, Uruacu does appear to be distinct from Campo del Cielo. Uruacu appears to be a much older meteorite that has weathered in different conditions, and many individuals show cohenite when cut -- a mineral I have never seen in Campo del Cielo. Generally speaking, Campos run the full range from freshly-fusion crusted to rusty lumps, and everything in-between. But, Campo fell within the past ~5,000 years, so we're talking about rapid weathering in a wet environment (also why it's a ruster). Uruacu fell in a drier area, and most individuals exhibit a much more uniform covering of shale that does not readily flake off due to rusting. They seem to have fallen much longer ago, and are generally more weathered due to the fact that they've been around for longer. Uruacu generally resists rusting better. It would be like comparing Sikhote Alin to Henbury. No Henburies I know of rust, but, by and large, they're not as fresh as most Sikhotes. But some Sikhotes appear to have fallen into swampy areas and look pretty bad -- and rust. It's hard to mix the two up. The trouble is that I've also seen Campos sold as Uruacu, which complicates things. Uruacu is a very old fall. Even some reputable dealers have been selling specimens of new Campo (crust, regmaglypts) as Uruacu. Very different. I assume this is due to dishonest suppliers. There's a stunning, fairly large Uruacu for sale at the moment. Not mine, but I wonder if this will bring it out of the woodwork. Regards, Jason From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Date: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] sharp protrusion from an iron meteorite To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Isn't Baygorria another meteorite with a fake provenance? Basically a cleaned up Campo with a delaminated section protruding after a not-so-careful makeover. I would just tell him to seek first aid so he doesn't catch the dreaded Lawrencite disease. Adam - Original Message - From: Randy Korotev koro...@wustl.edu To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:41 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] sharp protrusion from an iron meteorite I recieved a well prepared letter from a fellow with a question that I can't begin to answer. Maybe someone on the list has seen this kind of thing before. He bought a Baygorria (Iron, IAB complex) from a dealer 3 years ago. He picked it up recently to find a metal protrusion sticking out of the thing that was sharp enough to prick his thumb. Here's a jpg of his scanned photo. http://meteorites.wustl.edu/baygorria.jpg What's happened here? Randy Korotev St. Louis __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Baygorria vs Campo
I went to Uruaguay, I know a about Baygorria. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 1, 2013, at 2:50 PM, Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net wrote: Hi Jason, Mike and all, Baygorria is NOT Campo. Here is the story: E.T. Recovered Baygorria. However, while he was in The midst of cutting, etching distributing it, another dealer distributed dozens of slices of Campo AS BAYGORRIA to numerous institutions and individuals. This ultimately lead to multiple institutions stating that Baygorria was not a separate fall, but merely Campo sold under a different name. Ask E.T. About this. Michael On 2/28/13 10:24 PM, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Mike, All, Good catch. Uruacu's something else, while Baygorria is Campo, along with Las Palmas and a few other newbies supposedly from...other places. Gotta love globalization... Jason On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Uruacu could hardly be more different than Campo. Jason, are you confusing Baygorria with Uruacu? I saw Adam mention Baygorria (which is a total scam to claim campo under another name). Uruacu from Brazil is an extremely stable iron. It is old, but amazingly when cut is perfect and so have yet to see a piece that rusts on a cut surface. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Feb 28, 2013, at 11:31 PM, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Adam, All, Actually, Uruacu does appear to be distinct from Campo del Cielo. Uruacu appears to be a much older meteorite that has weathered in different conditions, and many individuals show cohenite when cut -- a mineral I have never seen in Campo del Cielo. Generally speaking, Campos run the full range from freshly-fusion crusted to rusty lumps, and everything in-between. But, Campo fell within the past ~5,000 years, so we're talking about rapid weathering in a wet environment (also why it's a ruster). Uruacu fell in a drier area, and most individuals exhibit a much more uniform covering of shale that does not readily flake off due to rusting. They seem to have fallen much longer ago, and are generally more weathered due to the fact that they've been around for longer. Uruacu generally resists rusting better. It would be like comparing Sikhote Alin to Henbury. No Henburies I know of rust, but, by and large, they're not as fresh as most Sikhotes. But some Sikhotes appear to have fallen into swampy areas and look pretty bad -- and rust. It's hard to mix the two up. The trouble is that I've also seen Campos sold as Uruacu, which complicates things. Uruacu is a very old fall. Even some reputable dealers have been selling specimens of new Campo (crust, regmaglypts) as Uruacu. Very different. I assume this is due to dishonest suppliers. There's a stunning, fairly large Uruacu for sale at the moment. Not mine, but I wonder if this will bring it out of the woodwork. Regards, Jason From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Date: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] sharp protrusion from an iron meteorite To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Isn't Baygorria another meteorite with a fake provenance? Basically a cleaned up Campo with a delaminated section protruding after a not-so-careful makeover. I would just tell him to seek first aid so he doesn't catch the dreaded Lawrencite disease. Adam - Original Message - From: Randy Korotev koro...@wustl.edu To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:41 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] sharp protrusion from an iron meteorite I recieved a well prepared letter from a fellow with a question that I can't begin to answer. Maybe someone on the list has seen this kind of thing before. He bought a Baygorria (Iron, IAB complex) from a dealer 3 years ago. He picked it up recently to find a metal protrusion sticking out of the thing that was sharp enough to prick his thumb. Here's a jpg of his scanned photo. http://meteorites.wustl.edu/baygorria.jpg What's happened here? Randy Korotev St. Louis __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at
Re: [meteorite-list] Baygorria vs Campo
LOLoud. Jim Strope 421 4th Street Glen Dale, WV. 26038 Sent from my iPad On Mar 1, 2013, at 2:50 PM, Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net wrote: Hi Jason, Mike and all, Baygorria is NOT Campo. Here is the story: E.T. Recovered Baygorria. However, while he was in The midst of cutting, etching distributing it, another dealer distributed dozens of slices of Campo AS BAYGORRIA to numerous institutions and individuals. This ultimately lead to multiple institutions stating that Baygorria was not a separate fall, but merely Campo sold under a different name. Ask E.T. About this. Michael On 2/28/13 10:24 PM, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Mike, All, Good catch. Uruacu's something else, while Baygorria is Campo, along with Las Palmas and a few other newbies supposedly from...other places. Gotta love globalization... Jason On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Uruacu could hardly be more different than Campo. Jason, are you confusing Baygorria with Uruacu? I saw Adam mention Baygorria (which is a total scam to claim campo under another name). Uruacu from Brazil is an extremely stable iron. It is old, but amazingly when cut is perfect and so have yet to see a piece that rusts on a cut surface. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Feb 28, 2013, at 11:31 PM, jason utas jasonu...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Adam, All, Actually, Uruacu does appear to be distinct from Campo del Cielo. Uruacu appears to be a much older meteorite that has weathered in different conditions, and many individuals show cohenite when cut -- a mineral I have never seen in Campo del Cielo. Generally speaking, Campos run the full range from freshly-fusion crusted to rusty lumps, and everything in-between. But, Campo fell within the past ~5,000 years, so we're talking about rapid weathering in a wet environment (also why it's a ruster). Uruacu fell in a drier area, and most individuals exhibit a much more uniform covering of shale that does not readily flake off due to rusting. They seem to have fallen much longer ago, and are generally more weathered due to the fact that they've been around for longer. Uruacu generally resists rusting better. It would be like comparing Sikhote Alin to Henbury. No Henburies I know of rust, but, by and large, they're not as fresh as most Sikhotes. But some Sikhotes appear to have fallen into swampy areas and look pretty bad -- and rust. It's hard to mix the two up. The trouble is that I've also seen Campos sold as Uruacu, which complicates things. Uruacu is a very old fall. Even some reputable dealers have been selling specimens of new Campo (crust, regmaglypts) as Uruacu. Very different. I assume this is due to dishonest suppliers. There's a stunning, fairly large Uruacu for sale at the moment. Not mine, but I wonder if this will bring it out of the woodwork. Regards, Jason From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Date: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] sharp protrusion from an iron meteorite To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Isn't Baygorria another meteorite with a fake provenance? Basically a cleaned up Campo with a delaminated section protruding after a not-so-careful makeover. I would just tell him to seek first aid so he doesn't catch the dreaded Lawrencite disease. Adam - Original Message - From: Randy Korotev koro...@wustl.edu To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:41 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] sharp protrusion from an iron meteorite I recieved a well prepared letter from a fellow with a question that I can't begin to answer. Maybe someone on the list has seen this kind of thing before. He bought a Baygorria (Iron, IAB complex) from a dealer 3 years ago. He picked it up recently to find a metal protrusion sticking out of the thing that was sharp enough to prick his thumb. Here's a jpg of his scanned photo. http://meteorites.wustl.edu/baygorria.jpg What's happened here? Randy Korotev St. Louis __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at
Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo
And can me someone tell me details about NWA 849 vs. Campo? http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/HB2W.jpg Looks so similar and the values are so similar. - Original Message - From: Steve Arnold, Chicago!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:07 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo Hello list.Can someone answer this for me?BAYGORRIA VS. CAMPO!They look alike.They say it is similar in composition.Yet 2 different strewnfields.I saw a slew of baygorria pieces on ebay and am just wondering,has the analysis come in yet for this meteorite?I hear that they are just campos and someone has put another name on them.I know that they are meteorites,but I know of 1 good place to get campos,for myself,no reason to get more using another name.HELP STEVE ARNOLD,CHICAGO Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 Illinois Meteorites,Ltd! website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo
Hi List Members, Martin asked about the similarities between NWA 849 and Campo with this statement: ** And can me someone tell me details about NWA 849 vs. Campo? http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/HB2W.jpg Looks so similar and the values are so similar. ** Coordinates were provided for NWA 849 by the Aronsons of Sahara Overland and I believe this piece was studied at UCLA. I am sure if UCLA suspected this material was Campo they would have noted this since they run into Campo all time according to an article I read in Meteorite Magazine. I have had nothing but honest business dealings with Sahara Overland and have no reason to doubt the meteorites origin. There are a few other high-integrity dealers like the Jensens who also carry NWA 849. IAB Course octahedrites are one of the most common Iron type meteorites out there so the provenance is very important. In the Case of Baygorria, it is my belief that these are all definitely paired to Campo del Cielo. The dealers who brought this material to Tucson admitted the fraud to Mike Farmer in Spanish which Mike speaks fluently. Not only that, the entry in the Meteoritical Bulletin states that they are similar in composition. Given the heterogeneity of iron meteorites and the slight differences in calibration of equipment used to study them, I would state the original Baygorria consisting of a single stone and Campo del Cielo are virtually identical. All course octahedrites are susceptible to weathering because of the relatively low nickel content so this cannot be used to distinguish them from one another. Only one Baygorria has ever been submitted for lab work and was determined to be similar to Campo del Cielo, everything else is a fraud. Expressing my opinion, if in doubt, check it out! Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 5:05 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo And can me someone tell me details about NWA 849 vs. Campo? http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/HB2W.jpg Looks so similar and the values are so similar. - Original Message - From: Steve Arnold, Chicago!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:07 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo Hello list.Can someone answer this for me?BAYGORRIA VS. CAMPO!They look alike.They say it is similar in composition.Yet 2 different strewnfields.I saw a slew of baygorria pieces on ebay and am just wondering,has the analysis come in yet for this meteorite?I hear that they are just campos and someone has put another name on them.I know that they are meteorites,but I know of 1 good place to get campos,for myself,no reason to get more using another name.HELP STEVE ARNOLD,CHICAGO Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 Illinois Meteorites,Ltd! website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo
--- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Hi List Members, Martin asked about the similarities between NWA 849 and Campo with this statement: ** And can me someone tell me details about NWA 849 vs. Campo? http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/HB2W.jpg Looks so similar and the values are so similar. ** Coordinates were provided for NWA 849 by the Aronsons of Sahara Overland and I believe this piece was studied at UCLA. I am sure if UCLA suspected this material was Campo they would have noted this since they run into Campo all time according to an article I read in Meteorite Magazine. I have had nothing but honest business dealings with Sahara Overland and have no reason to doubt the meteorites origin. There are a few other high-integrity dealers like the Jensens who also carry NWA 849. IAB Course octahedrites are one of the most common Iron type meteorites out there so the provenance is very important. My opinio is NWA 849 its a real NWA iron, not other similar irons...I have say the same when I have buy a little slice years ago from Pittmann if its a Campo del Cielo and he have say no. One particular its important, NWA 849 its a IAB but not have any rusty, when the rusty its tipycal of the Campo del cielo slices. Matteo M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ ___ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo
Baygorria (iron meteorite IAB), Rio Negro Province, Uruguay. Found 1994 July 8. A single mass, ~80 kg, was found in a grass field near Baygorria dam. Classification (F. Wlotzka, MPI, Mainz) and analysis (B. Spettel, Max Planck Inst. f r Chemie, Mainz, Germany): Ni, 6.5%; Co, 0.43%; Ga 97.8 ppm; Ge, 10.9 ppm; Ir, 3.69 ppm; composition similar to Campo del Cielo Matteo --- Rob Wesel [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: It will take a scientist to make the determination on Baygorria. The partslices of Baygorria on my website were cut by Marlin Cilz from the single mass classified as Baygorria several years ago. They were not purchased at the Tucson show. Could there be a little Port Orford going on here, sure. Any scientist wanting to take it on...I will lend the material for study. Obviously, the Tucson situation has damaged my sales of my material but I don't plan to take it down or change the name any time soon as it was CLASSIFIED as Baygorria. Rob Wesel http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 11:43 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo Hi List Members, Martin asked about the similarities between NWA 849 and Campo with this statement: ** And can me someone tell me details about NWA 849 vs. Campo? http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/HB2W.jpg Looks so similar and the values are so similar. ** Coordinates were provided for NWA 849 by the Aronsons of Sahara Overland and I believe this piece was studied at UCLA. I am sure if UCLA suspected this material was Campo they would have noted this since they run into Campo all time according to an article I read in Meteorite Magazine. I have had nothing but honest business dealings with Sahara Overland and have no reason to doubt the meteorites origin. There are a few other high-integrity dealers like the Jensens who also carry NWA 849. IAB Course octahedrites are one of the most common Iron type meteorites out there so the provenance is very important. In the Case of Baygorria, it is my belief that these are all definitely paired to Campo del Cielo. The dealers who brought this material to Tucson admitted the fraud to Mike Farmer in Spanish which Mike speaks fluently. Not only that, the entry in the Meteoritical Bulletin states that they are similar in composition. Given the heterogeneity of iron meteorites and the slight differences in calibration of equipment used to study them, I would state the original Baygorria consisting of a single stone and Campo del Cielo are virtually identical. All course octahedrites are susceptible to weathering because of the relatively low nickel content so this cannot be used to distinguish them from one another. Only one Baygorria has ever been submitted for lab work and was determined to be similar to Campo del Cielo, everything else is a fraud. Expressing my opinion, if in doubt, check it out! Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 5:05 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo And can me someone tell me details about NWA 849 vs. Campo? http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/HB2W.jpg Looks so similar and the values are so similar. - Original Message - From: Steve Arnold, Chicago!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:07 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo Hello list.Can someone answer this for me?BAYGORRIA VS. CAMPO!They look alike.They say it is similar in composition.Yet 2 different strewnfields.I saw a slew of baygorria pieces on ebay and am just wondering,has the analysis come in yet for this meteorite?I hear that they are just campos and someone has put another name on them.I know that they are meteorites,but I know of 1 good place to get campos,for myself,no reason to get more using another name.HELP STEVE ARNOLD,CHICAGO Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 Illinois Meteorites,Ltd! website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo
My opinio is NWA 849 its a real NWA iron, not other similar irons...I have say the same when I have buy a little slice years ago from Pittmann if its a Campo del Cielo and he have say no. One particular its important, NWA 849 its a IAB but not have any rusty, when the rusty its tipycal of the Campo del cielo slices. Matteo Hi I think its just verry easy to tell if this can be Campo or not. Can anyone show us outside surface of NWA849 (main mass photo)? I think that rusty surface like in Campo cant be seen on any NWA iron meteorite. Dont You think it will be the best method to be sure ? -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo
Hi Marcin and List, I think it is very important to take pictures before cutting any iron. It would be great if somebody had a picture of the 12 Kilogram NWA849 main mass. I will check with Sahara Overland since they are the ones who had this sent to UCLA for study and brought it to market. Take Care, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo
Hi Adam, I didn't want to doubt, just wanted to have the circumstances, that the trace elements are almost identical is the natural crux, as accordingt to them the irons are grouped to the chemical classes. And as here additionally NWA 849 is said to have silicate inclusions as Campo has too, but which aren't found in all IABs, I was just curious, to learn about the provenance! Best! Martin - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo Hi List Members, Martin asked about the similarities between NWA 849 and Campo with this statement: ** And can me someone tell me details about NWA 849 vs. Campo? http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/HB2W.jpg Looks so similar and the values are so similar. ** Coordinates were provided for NWA 849 by the Aronsons of Sahara Overland and I believe this piece was studied at UCLA. I am sure if UCLA suspected this material was Campo they would have noted this since they run into Campo all time according to an article I read in Meteorite Magazine. I have had nothing but honest business dealings with Sahara Overland and have no reason to doubt the meteorites origin. There are a few other high-integrity dealers like the Jensens who also carry NWA 849. IAB Course octahedrites are one of the most common Iron type meteorites out there so the provenance is very important. In the Case of Baygorria, it is my belief that these are all definitely paired to Campo del Cielo. The dealers who brought this material to Tucson admitted the fraud to Mike Farmer in Spanish which Mike speaks fluently. Not only that, the entry in the Meteoritical Bulletin states that they are similar in composition. Given the heterogeneity of iron meteorites and the slight differences in calibration of equipment used to study them, I would state the original Baygorria consisting of a single stone and Campo del Cielo are virtually identical. All course octahedrites are susceptible to weathering because of the relatively low nickel content so this cannot be used to distinguish them from one another. Only one Baygorria has ever been submitted for lab work and was determined to be similar to Campo del Cielo, everything else is a fraud. Expressing my opinion, if in doubt, check it out! Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 5:05 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo And can me someone tell me details about NWA 849 vs. Campo? http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/HB2W.jpg Looks so similar and the values are so similar. - Original Message - From: Steve Arnold, Chicago!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:07 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo Hello list.Can someone answer this for me?BAYGORRIA VS. CAMPO!They look alike.They say it is similar in composition.Yet 2 different strewnfields.I saw a slew of baygorria pieces on ebay and am just wondering,has the analysis come in yet for this meteorite?I hear that they are just campos and someone has put another name on them.I know that they are meteorites,but I know of 1 good place to get campos,for myself,no reason to get more using another name.HELP STEVE ARNOLD,CHICAGO Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 Illinois Meteorites,Ltd! website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo
Hi Martin and List, I have no problem with questions being asked about the provenance of a particular piece as this is very important. It is unfortunate that there are numerous IAB Course Octahedrites in existence because of the similarities to Campo del Cielo. Several Course Octahedrites from the Mojave desert including the Old Woman have been located before this was even an issue. Now every time one is found collectors assume the worse and that some kind of fraud is being committed. In my opinion, there is only one meteorite that can be called Baygorria and that is the original 80 Kg piece that was studied. It could be a transported Campo, either in ancient or modern times, no one knows for sure. Canyon Diablos have been transported for centuries by Indians and not for fraudulent purposes. A good laboratory can spot the differences in most cases and that is why it is important to have them studied. Kind Regards, Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 2:10 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo Hi Adam, I didn't want to doubt, just wanted to have the circumstances, that the trace elements are almost identical is the natural crux, as accordingt to them the irons are grouped to the chemical classes. And as here additionally NWA 849 is said to have silicate inclusions as Campo has too, but which aren't found in all IABs, I was just curious, to learn about the provenance! Best! Martin - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo Hi List Members, Martin asked about the similarities between NWA 849 and Campo with this statement: ** And can me someone tell me details about NWA 849 vs. Campo? http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/HB2W.jpg Looks so similar and the values are so similar. ** Coordinates were provided for NWA 849 by the Aronsons of Sahara Overland and I believe this piece was studied at UCLA. I am sure if UCLA suspected this material was Campo they would have noted this since they run into Campo all time according to an article I read in Meteorite Magazine. I have had nothing but honest business dealings with Sahara Overland and have no reason to doubt the meteorites origin. There are a few other high-integrity dealers like the Jensens who also carry NWA 849. IAB Course octahedrites are one of the most common Iron type meteorites out there so the provenance is very important. In the Case of Baygorria, it is my belief that these are all definitely paired to Campo del Cielo. The dealers who brought this material to Tucson admitted the fraud to Mike Farmer in Spanish which Mike speaks fluently. Not only that, the entry in the Meteoritical Bulletin states that they are similar in composition. Given the heterogeneity of iron meteorites and the slight differences in calibration of equipment used to study them, I would state the original Baygorria consisting of a single stone and Campo del Cielo are virtually identical. All course octahedrites are susceptible to weathering because of the relatively low nickel content so this cannot be used to distinguish them from one another. Only one Baygorria has ever been submitted for lab work and was determined to be similar to Campo del Cielo, everything else is a fraud. Expressing my opinion, if in doubt, check it out! Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 5:05 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo And can me someone tell me details about NWA 849 vs. Campo? http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/HB2W.jpg Looks so similar and the values are so similar. - Original Message - From: Steve Arnold, Chicago!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:07 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo Hello list.Can someone answer this for me?BAYGORRIA VS. CAMPO!They look alike.They say it is similar in composition.Yet 2 different strewnfields.I saw a slew of baygorria pieces on ebay and am just wondering,has the analysis come in yet for this meteorite?I hear that they are just campos and someone has put another name on them.I know that they are meteorites,but I know of 1
Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo
Canyon Diablos have been transported for centuries by Indians and not for fraudulent purposes. A good laboratory can spot the differences in most cases and that is why it is important to have them studied. What does that mean? What fraudulent motive would an ancient native american have? Thanks for absolving them. Get to the lavatory. Stick to meteorites. Don't start babbling again. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo
Dear Thomas and List, Thomas rudely stated the following: What does that mean? What fraudulent motive would an ancient native American have? Thanks for absolving them. Get to the lavatory. Stick to meteorites. Don't start babbling again. That was exactly my point. A Campo del Cielo could have been innocently transported in ancient times to Baygorria by natives living in the area and then re-found sometime later. This is a well documented fact with Canyon Diablo. CDs have been found hundreds of miles from the impact site and were known to have been transported by Native Americans who had more than just a passing curiosity in them. Not everything has to be a fraud just because it was reported from a different location. I don't know how you took this statement but it sounds like you have taken this statement out of its proper context. No need to get defensive. Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo
Hi Adam and list, I was told by at friend that hunts the areathat the meteorites that were sold as Baygorria in Tucson last year were cleaned up Campo Del Cielo's . Sonny -Original Message- From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Thomas Uza [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 16:54:41 -0800 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo Dear Thomas and List, Thomas rudely stated the following: What does that mean? What fraudulent motive would an ancient native American have? Thanks for absolving them. Get to the lavatory. Stick to meteorites. Don't start babbling again. That was exactly my point. A Campo del Cielo could have been innocently transported in ancient times to Baygorria by natives living in the area and then re-found sometime later. This is a well documented fact with Canyon Diablo. CDs have been found hundreds of miles from the impact site and were known to have been transported by Native Americans who had more than just a passing curiosity in them. Not everything has to be a fraud just because it was reported from a different location. I don't know how you took this statement but it sounds like you have taken this statement out of its proper context. No need to get defensive. Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo
Steve and List, Whether they are Baygorria or Campo, who would want to pay the shipping asked by the seller?!!! Thomas --- Steve Arnold, Chicago!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello list.Can someone answer this for me?BAYGORRIA VS. CAMPO!They look alike.They say it is similar in composition.Yet 2 different strewnfields.I saw a slew of baygorria pieces on ebay and am just wondering,has the analysis come in yet for this meteorite?I hear that they are just campos and someone has put another name on them.I know that they are meteorites,but I know of 1 good place to get campos,for myself,no reason to get more using another name.HELP STEVE ARNOLD,CHICAGO Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 Illinois Meteorites,Ltd! website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
