Re: [meteorite-list] Hot flash more goof balls?

2005-02-02 Thread Thomas Randall - KB2SMS
On Wed, 2005-02-02 at 01:51, Darren Garrison wrote:
 
 Ah, he's a rank amature compaired to Nancy Lieder (familar to anyone who 
 visits sci.astro)


NO NO NO!!! Do NOT bring up THAT name for the love of all good on the
planet!!!


Tom


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Re: [meteorite-list] Hot flash more goof balls?

2005-02-02 Thread Sterling K. Webb
 Hi, Darren,

 I give up. Your kook wins the prize!

 Sterling

--

Darren Garrison wrote:

 On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 00:16:01 -0600, Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:

  So, let's talk about the Xenotech website. I don't know how
  much of it you've looked at, but I'd already spent quite a few
  hours on its hundreds of pages. First, it's not these jokers;
  it's one individual who seems to done a truly massive amount of
  work completely on his own and seems to have examined every image

 Ah, he's a rank amature compaired to Nancy Lieder (familar to anyone who 
 visits sci.astro)

 Check out the insanity here:
 http://www.zetatalk.com/


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Re: [meteorite-list] Hot flash more goof balls?

2005-02-01 Thread Sterling K. Webb
 Hi, Dave, and List,

 Obviously, we are entering the Tucson Lull when The List goes
 unnaturally quiet! Time for the supremely silly Post! Mine, I
 mean.

 So, let's talk about the Xenotech website. I don't know how
 much of it you've looked at, but I'd already spent quite a few
 hours on its hundreds of pages. First, it's not these jokers;
 it's one individual who seems to done a truly massive amount of
 work completely on his own and seems to have examined every image
 from every camera  -- hazard cam, pan cam, microscopic imager, you
 name it  --  through every filter from every sol.

 I can draw some conclusions about him:  1. he's hard-working
 and thorough; 2. there are some large gaps in his knowledge which
 suggests to me that he's probably entirely self-taught; 3. he's
 honest enough that when he went way overboard with one object
 which later photos showed to be just a rock, he left the page up
 on his site to show how easy it was to be deceived; 4. he's right
 about some (but maybe not most) things.

 Actually, Marcin at meteoryt.net posted to the List this guy's
 page on assembling true color images of the martian surface:
 http://www.xenotechresearch.com/truecol1.htm
 http://www.xenotechresearch.com/opsol15a.htm
 http://www.xenotechresearch.com/marsq.htm and
 http://www.xenotechresearch.com/marsbcb1.htm.
 This is one of the things he's right about. And the images he
 assembles using the calibration data are really nice, vivid, and
 probably accurate.

 Now, the fossils.  I think he's wrong.  But a few of his
 images are almost convincing, like the stereo view at the top of
 the page you referenced in your email.  If it's not a fossil, then
 it's a geologically produced feature. What kind of geology
 produces that? Of course, we know jack nothing about Mars'
 geological processes except for sweeping generalizations, so we
 can't answer that question.

 Quite reasonably, he sees only very primitive soft-bodied
 and simple shelled forms (no shark's teeth!), what you would have
 seen on Earth 500,000,000 years ago. Remember, we went to these
 locations because we thought they would be old sea beds. There are
 probably lots of people on this List with fossil expertise. Maybe
 they should look at his site:
 http://www.xenotechresearch.com/marsindx.htm

 I think he suffers from Pattern Recognition Syndrome. Human
 beings are so attuned to finding patterns that they find them when
 they are not there! I spent a long time staring at one his really
 big processed images from the microscopic imager that suddenly I
 saw an Hallucinogena fossil, like in the Burgess Shale. I went and
 banged my head against the wall for a while and it went away.
 Appropriate name, though.

 He really applies very heavy processing to the images to bring
 out the features he decribes. He may be overdoing it, but I see
 few signs of processing artifacts. Frankly, the images do not go
 far enough to establish anything incontrovertibly. Are those sand
 dunes in the bottom of Endurance crater, or eroded ice? The photos
 are eerie and inconclusive, but beautiful.

 The other thing he has a problem with is the accepted time
 scale.  He sees certain features in the photos and says These
 can't be more than a few weeks old! because he assumes more
 Earth-like rates of erosion and modification, when an always
 cautious professional would say These features have remained
 essentially unmodified for many millions of years. The truth? We
 don't really know.

 Mars obviously modifies its surface much more slowly than
 Earth (hence the craters). The Tharsis volcanoes were first said
 to be inactive for 1.3 billion years, then 800 million years, then
 150 million years, and a just released NASA study says some of the
 flows are only 2 million years old, maybe younger, and there may
 be water ice glaciers on the upper slopes. The professional starts
 with the most cautious judgment and inches slowly forward over the
 decades...

 This guy sees very active water features, what would fit with
 the high aquifer model, with wet soil just under the surface and
 assembles a certain amount of evidence for a wet (and very salty)
 Mars. Did you know that the humidity on Mars is almost always
 100%? Hmmm.

 The essential question is: how Earth-like is Mars?  We don't
 know the answer; that's why we want to go there! And occasionally
 he has a real point:
 http://www.xenotechresearch.com/wetclay1.htm
 Whatever the RAT got into, it was gooey goop, not rock!

 Another possibly valid point is his reaction to the photos
 that show countless trillions of blueberries spread out over the
 

Re: [meteorite-list] Hot flash more goof balls?

2005-02-01 Thread Darren Garrison
On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 00:16:01 -0600, Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:


 So, let's talk about the Xenotech website. I don't know how
 much of it you've looked at, but I'd already spent quite a few
 hours on its hundreds of pages. First, it's not these jokers;
 it's one individual who seems to done a truly massive amount of
 work completely on his own and seems to have examined every image

Ah, he's a rank amature compaired to Nancy Lieder (familar to anyone who visits 
sci.astro)

Check out the insanity here:
http://www.zetatalk.com/
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