Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
G'Day Stuart and List My sentiments entirely, but I'm afraid you're going to have to run the gauntlet. All the miracles for this year have been used up :-) Cheers John IMCA # 2125 -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McDaniel Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 6:30 PM To: star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com; Shawn Alan; Mike Bandli; Galactic Stone Ironworks Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July Hopefully this topic won't go down hill like some others have recently. I have been sitting back just reading for a long time and not saying much but I would like to add a comment. I guess it would be in Greg's defense but I remember back when the first pieces of the WI fireball hit ebay there were a couple listers here that really cashed in at $300-400/gr. I know demand drives price and some people will pay what ever to get a piece. That is just free enterprise. Everyone know that anyone that is selling something is out to make money or else they would not be selling something. Greg made it possible for me to add a small WI addition to my collection early in the game when it seemed the going price was way over $100/gr. Thank you! Not all of us have the deep pockets that some here have and we have to sacrifice size to gain quantity. Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secretary, Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society - Original Message - From: star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com; Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net; Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July That was on ebay after I had offered it to metlist members at $60 per gram. To be honest, some paid less then $40 per gram who have been good customers of mine. Once I filled the requests on here, yeah I did try to cash in a little bit on ebay, but keep in mind about 18% of the cost went to fees. I'm not going to play it off like I'm not out to make money selling meteorites but I do know I was the first one to offer samples well under $100 per gram - almost 1/2 the price others were asking. I made a trip out there, came back empty handed, but still had a lot of fun. Same with the PA fall last year. It cost money, I did not find anything but my family and I had a great time. No money lost in my opinion. I do understand costs, and I'm not taking shots at anyone. Just offering my opinion of the fresh fall frenzy and how I feel as a collector being asked to pay $100 per gram for an OC when its all over the papers that people are paying less the $10 per gram for it. I made it to and from WI on less then $200 and stayed for under$50 per night. A week would have cost me about $450. One 4.9g stone bought at $10 per gram pays for the trip. How many found much more then that? That's Real numbers... To top it off and put it into perspective, I have had someone tell me anything over $100 per gram is too much for an angrite like mine, but they pay $100/g for an OC? Haha. Greg Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 13:46:45 To: Mike Bandlifuzzf...@comcast.net; Galactic Stone Ironworksmeteoritem...@gmail.com; Greg Cattertonstar_wars_collec...@yahoo.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July Greg and Listers Greg I am kinda confused by your statement about how much you sold your WI meteorite falls for on eBay when you said this. 'I dont like the trend with new falls and the prices that go with them, its taking advantage of collectors. Thats the whole reason I sold my WI material at $60 or less when others were still getting $100 or more But your sold many WI fall meteorite fragsments for $100 or more per gram on eBay with only buy it now options. Good example is this listing on ebay: awesome 2.30 gram fusion crusted COMPLETE SLICE of the Meteorite that fell in Wisconsin on April 14, 2010. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=390192619325 and you sold it for $230 with only a buy it now option, hmmm. I am confused now by your statement about how you dont like trends where people increse the price on falls when they are new. Another example is you sold many micros on ebay for with only a buy it now option for $10 at that rate the collecter paid well over $500 a gram at that inflated price. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=390196100905 Again trends come and go and this month is going to be a month with a rise with historic falls and rare meteorites going up for record sales in the past few months. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
David is so right when he says We are not entitled to a certain price. This thread has drawn some pretty inane comments. Most are based on the question of why buyers have been unsuccssful in influencing sellers to offer their meteorites at lower prices. Particularly fresh offerings. What is it about a free market system that isn't broadly understood? Nobody has a gun to anyone's head to buy, or sell! The item becomes available. The seller asks a price. His price. There are no rules he has to follow. He offers it. You like it...you want it...then pay his price. If the price is too high for you then don't buy it. If enough buyers elect not to buy at the price offered...guess what? The price will come down. It's called, as David also said, supply and demand. Lets not try to argue the unarguable. It's maddening! Best, Count Deiro IMCA -Original Message- From: Greg Stanley stanleygr...@hotmail.com Sent: Jul 1, 2010 5:25 PM To: dr...@emersonhosp.org, star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com, Mike fuzzf...@comcast.net, mike meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, photoph...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July List: What if during the next fall nobody pays the $100/gm price, then it will come down until people buy it. I know that will be hard to do, but the consumer can dictate the price. Although, there is the chance the sellers will not sell for less, then they have to keep them... the price will eventually come down, I would think. Oh well... it's all part of the hobby. Greg S. From: dr...@emersonhosp.org To: star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com; fuzzf...@comcast.net; meteoritem...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 20:42:09 + CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; photoph...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July Again, it is a matter of supply and demand and whether an individual collector is willing to pay the price. The TKW for the WI fall is currently low, but that wasn't known when the $100/gm prices were being charged. Reports that the material was being bought from landownwers at $10/gm or less don't help the feeling among collectors that they were/are being gouged, but then it is an individual's choice to buy or not to buy. Nobody likes to feel that they are being taken advantage of, but if that is the way it feels, don't buy (I know that's hard!) As a collector, I don't like the price trends either, particularly when old, historic falls with museum provenance are sometimes cheaper per gram, but there is no right level for a fall, we are not entitled to a certain price. The market will decide. Best regards, David -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Greg Catterton Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 4:05 PM To: Mike Bandli; Galactic Stone Ironworks Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Shawn Alan Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July The WI fall was a strange one. I think too many people were trying to get rich of others. Before anyone comes at me with the numbers of the trip, I know and I understand, but at the same time, it can be done for much less. When I see reports of the landowners selling the stones for less then $10 per gram (I know of several who would not pay more the $3 per gram!)and then see them selling it for $100/g or more, thats just too much... Why do you think the 2 kg stone was hushed up so much? I have seen pics of it, so have many others and yet nobody wants to act like it exists and people still call a 330g stone the main mass when in reality, its far from the main mass. I dont like the trend with new falls and the prices that go with them, its taking advantage of collectors. Thats the whole reason I sold my WI material at $60 or less when others were still getting $100 or more... and I got many mean emails filled with profanity over putting that price public... Why? They knew they it would hurt the value. I did not sell it for that to do that, I did it because its not worth any more then that, and anyone who says it is, I ask again, why? There is likely 10kg or more of the fall, its not rare by any means. Sure there is a price to pay for those that cant make it to the fall site, but when is it too much? Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Galactic Stone Ironworks wrote: From: Galactic Stone Ironworks Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July To: Mike Bandli Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, Shawn Alan Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 2:40 PM In the end, I think
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
List: What if during the next fall nobody pays the $100/gm price, then it will come down until people buy it. I know that will be hard to do, but the consumer can dictate the price. Although, there is the chance the sellers will not sell for less, then they have to keep them... the price will eventually come down, I would think. Oh well... it's all part of the hobby. Greg S. From: dr...@emersonhosp.org To: star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com; fuzzf...@comcast.net; meteoritem...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 20:42:09 + CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; photoph...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July Again, it is a matter of supply and demand and whether an individual collector is willing to pay the price. The TKW for the WI fall is currently low, but that wasn't known when the $100/gm prices were being charged. Reports that the material was being bought from landownwers at $10/gm or less don't help the feeling among collectors that they were/are being gouged, but then it is an individual's choice to buy or not to buy. Nobody likes to feel that they are being taken advantage of, but if that is the way it feels, don't buy (I know that's hard!) As a collector, I don't like the price trends either, particularly when old, historic falls with museum provenance are sometimes cheaper per gram, but there is no right level for a fall, we are not entitled to a certain price. The market will decide. Best regards, David -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Greg Catterton Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 4:05 PM To: Mike Bandli; Galactic Stone Ironworks Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Shawn Alan Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July The WI fall was a strange one. I think too many people were trying to get rich of others. Before anyone comes at me with the numbers of the trip, I know and I understand, but at the same time, it can be done for much less. When I see reports of the landowners selling the stones for less then $10 per gram (I know of several who would not pay more the $3 per gram!)and then see them selling it for $100/g or more, thats just too much... Why do you think the 2 kg stone was hushed up so much? I have seen pics of it, so have many others and yet nobody wants to act like it exists and people still call a 330g stone the main mass when in reality, its far from the main mass. I dont like the trend with new falls and the prices that go with them, its taking advantage of collectors. Thats the whole reason I sold my WI material at $60 or less when others were still getting $100 or more... and I got many mean emails filled with profanity over putting that price public... Why? They knew they it would hurt the value. I did not sell it for that to do that, I did it because its not worth any more then that, and anyone who says it is, I ask again, why? There is likely 10kg or more of the fall, its not rare by any means. Sure there is a price to pay for those that cant make it to the fall site, but when is it too much? Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Galactic Stone Ironworks wrote: From: Galactic Stone Ironworks Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July To: Mike Bandli Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, Shawn Alan Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 2:40 PM In the end, I think this is all being overanalyzed to death. There is no magic formula for determining what the price is going to do. Did the price go down on Puerto Lapice, or Villalbeto de la Peña, or Daule, or Leighlinbridge? I bet many wish they did not wait for prices to fall on those. Agreed here. There is only one certainty about the meteorite market - she is fickle mistress. ;) There some falls that will never come down in price, due to scarcity of available specimens. Cali is a good example I think. Whetstone will likely hold it's value well. Maybe a good discussion would be ATW - or available total weight. A fall may have a sizeable TKW, but if the majority of the material is locked away from the private market, then the price will reflect that. Best regards, MikeG On 7/1/10, Mike Bandli wrote: MikeG wrote: The TKW is vastly different, but TKW should not be a factor in a fall being considered historical. I think you mean historic, but I said nothing about TKW meaning something was historic or that Buzzard was not significant. In the end, I think this is all being overanalyzed to death. There is no magic formula for determining what the price is going to do. Did
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
This should be no surprise. Prices rise while the hunt is on and crumble after the attention subsides. That is when you should buy, IMO, if you want the best prices. They will stabilize over the next few months, then rise again after all the material is gone. It happens nearly everytime. Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 -Original Message- From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 02:40:01 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July Hello Listers, I have noticed with the Livingston WI meteorite Fall in April that the prices were at a good high, well over $100 a gram for the first month being sold on eBay and alike. And then a rush happened over night with a few sellers on eBay and the meteorite market and it was mayhem. However, in the past few weeks I have noticed prices dropping low, and I mean low. Tonight on eBay a WI slice weighing at 3.8 sold at $78 and another slice at 9.66g sold at $285. With other recent falls they tend to stay high for the first year from what I have seen with sales and research, but with the WI fall this isn't the case. I am left to wondering why is it with this fall that it had a great led in sales in the first month and dropped so low in less then 2 months, not to mention the lack of WI meteorites found in the field? Is it that majority of the WI fall meteorites are being sold at a recorded high weight, dealers selling the big boys all at once? I see that this coming month that sales with historic falls will keep going up and the exchange of rare and special meteorite falls will be revisited for the fact of the rich history they command in the market and with collectors alike. Also not to mention, the new NWAs that keep popping up will bring a new twist to the collecting world. All I can say is history repeats its self and history can out weigh anything through and through again while trends come and go. Hold on and lets see what July brings for the hot summer month to cool our needs for meteorites. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p4340 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
Hi Shawn and List, Perhaps I am off-base here, but I think we are witnessing (in part) a dynamic of collecting meteorites. New collectors are steadily entering this field/hobby and those who stay will mature and learn. Their knowledge of meteoritics, collecting, and the market will increase with their experience. What we saw with Ash Creek is different than what we are seeing now with Wisconsin because the greater collector market is maturing. Perhaps now we are in-between the influx crowds of newbies and the majority of current collectors are becoming more savvy in their purchases. One of the first lessons about falls that newbies learn is patience. It's the same with most things - the first person on the block to have a thing, pays much more for that thing. So the rest of the people sit back and wait for the price to come down - which it usually does. Those who wanted to be the first on the block to own Wisconsin now have it, and now the rest of us are waiting to get a better price. The new and inexperienced will rush out to pay top dollar for a common chondrite because it is exciting to them, regardless of the petrologic type or circumstances of the fall. Perhaps the Class of Ash Creek has graduated and now we are seeing the benefits of patience, rational assessment, and experience. Of course, this could change in a moment when the second season of Meteorite Men starts and a new flock of eager beginners discovers meteorites. Or when the next brilliant fireball goes viral on YouTube. I still don't own a sizeable specimen of Ash Creek, Whetstone Mountains, Daule, or Wisconsin and I won't until the right price comes along. Those falls just don't fit into my collecting scheme - because they are ordinary chondrites that fell under ordinary circumstances (for the most part). Despite the marketing hype, there is little special about any of them beyond the significance the buyer attaches to them. Do any of the above have the makings of a truly historical fall - maybe, maybe not. Are they rare types? No. I'm not trying to downplay any of these falls, but I think few would argue that these falls were well worth the prices they were introduced at. Best regards, MikeG On 7/1/10, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello Listers, I have noticed with the Livingston WI meteorite Fall in April that the prices were at a good high, well over $100 a gram for the first month being sold on eBay and alike. And then a rush happened over night with a few sellers on eBay and the meteorite market and it was mayhem. However, in the past few weeks I have noticed prices dropping low, and I mean low. Tonight on eBay a WI slice weighing at 3.8 sold at $78 and another slice at 9.66g sold at $285. With other recent falls they tend to stay high for the first year from what I have seen with sales and research, but with the WI fall this isn't the case. I am left to wondering why is it with this fall that it had a great led in sales in the first month and dropped so low in less then 2 months, not to mention the lack of WI meteorites found in the field? Is it that majority of the WI fall meteorites are being sold at a recorded high weight, dealers selling the big boys all at once? I see that this coming month that sales with historic falls will keep going up and the exchange of rare and special meteorite falls will be revisited for the fact of the rich history they command in the market and with collectors alike. Also not to mention, the new NWAs that keep popping up will bring a new twist to the collecting world. All I can say is history repeats its self and history can out weigh anything through and through again while trends come and go. Hold on and lets see what July brings for the hot summer month to cool our needs for meteorites. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p4340 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
I don't see any difference between WI and Ash Creek. Ash Creek was over 100/g right after the fall, and can now be had for 20/g. The laws of economics never change. Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 -Original Message- From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 10:25:34 To: Shawn Alanphotoph...@yahoo.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July Hi Shawn and List, Perhaps I am off-base here, but I think we are witnessing (in part) a dynamic of collecting meteorites. New collectors are steadily entering this field/hobby and those who stay will mature and learn. Their knowledge of meteoritics, collecting, and the market will increase with their experience. What we saw with Ash Creek is different than what we are seeing now with Wisconsin because the greater collector market is maturing. Perhaps now we are in-between the influx crowds of newbies and the majority of current collectors are becoming more savvy in their purchases. One of the first lessons about falls that newbies learn is patience. It's the same with most things - the first person on the block to have a thing, pays much more for that thing. So the rest of the people sit back and wait for the price to come down - which it usually does. Those who wanted to be the first on the block to own Wisconsin now have it, and now the rest of us are waiting to get a better price. The new and inexperienced will rush out to pay top dollar for a common chondrite because it is exciting to them, regardless of the petrologic type or circumstances of the fall. Perhaps the Class of Ash Creek has graduated and now we are seeing the benefits of patience, rational assessment, and experience. Of course, this could change in a moment when the second season of Meteorite Men starts and a new flock of eager beginners discovers meteorites. Or when the next brilliant fireball goes viral on YouTube. I still don't own a sizeable specimen of Ash Creek, Whetstone Mountains, Daule, or Wisconsin and I won't until the right price comes along. Those falls just don't fit into my collecting scheme - because they are ordinary chondrites that fell under ordinary circumstances (for the most part). Despite the marketing hype, there is little special about any of them beyond the significance the buyer attaches to them. Do any of the above have the makings of a truly historical fall - maybe, maybe not. Are they rare types? No. I'm not trying to downplay any of these falls, but I think few would argue that these falls were well worth the prices they were introduced at. Best regards, MikeG On 7/1/10, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello Listers, I have noticed with the Livingston WI meteorite Fall in April that the prices were at a good high, well over $100 a gram for the first month being sold on eBay and alike. And then a rush happened over night with a few sellers on eBay and the meteorite market and it was mayhem. However, in the past few weeks I have noticed prices dropping low, and I mean low. Tonight on eBay a WI slice weighing at 3.8 sold at $78 and another slice at 9.66g sold at $285. With other recent falls they tend to stay high for the first year from what I have seen with sales and research, but with the WI fall this isn't the case. I am left to wondering why is it with this fall that it had a great led in sales in the first month and dropped so low in less then 2 months, not to mention the lack of WI meteorites found in the field? Is it that majority of the WI fall meteorites are being sold at a recorded high weight, dealers selling the big boys all at once? I see that this coming month that sales with historic falls will keep going up and the exchange of rare and special meteorite falls will be revisited for the fact of the rich history they command in the market and with collectors alike. Also not to mention, the new NWAs that keep popping up will bring a new twist to the collecting world. All I can say is history repeats its self and history can out weigh anything through and through again while trends come and go. Hold on and lets see what July brings for the hot summer month to cool our needs for meteorites. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p4340 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
The tkw and number of stones recovered from WI are significantly smaller than those of Ash Creek, so prices are likely to stay fairly high, but...it's a fall like any other, so the price will likely deflate once the typical frenzy fades. I'm still trying to figure out why the price jump occurred, when the price for a new American fall went from $10/g in the mid-to-late 90's -- to $20-60/g for Park Forest -- to Ash Creek at $100/g. That never made much sense to me. I suppose it might be the influx of new collectors, but...even so. I have the feeling that it really does have to do with the fact that more smaller-time dealer/collectors have been going out for each fall, finding fewer stones per person. Then, when they get home looking to recoup enough to cover their trips' expenses, they want to sell only a stone or two to cover their costs. In the old days, fewer people would travel out to recover new falls, and they would return with more material, fully prepared to sell nearly all of it. They would have more material to cover the same expenses/turn a profit. Either way, the fallback price for these larger falls seems to settle at around $20/g, but I would still anticipate higher prices for meteorites like WI and Whetstone, where relatively few stones have been found and the tkw's have remained in the 3-4 kilogram range. Compare to Villalbeto de la Peña. Regards, Jason On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 7:28 AM, m...@mhmeteorites.com wrote: I don't see any difference between WI and Ash Creek. Ash Creek was over 100/g right after the fall, and can now be had for 20/g. The laws of economics never change. Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 -Original Message- From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 10:25:34 To: Shawn Alanphotoph...@yahoo.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July Hi Shawn and List, Perhaps I am off-base here, but I think we are witnessing (in part) a dynamic of collecting meteorites. New collectors are steadily entering this field/hobby and those who stay will mature and learn. Their knowledge of meteoritics, collecting, and the market will increase with their experience. What we saw with Ash Creek is different than what we are seeing now with Wisconsin because the greater collector market is maturing. Perhaps now we are in-between the influx crowds of newbies and the majority of current collectors are becoming more savvy in their purchases. One of the first lessons about falls that newbies learn is patience. It's the same with most things - the first person on the block to have a thing, pays much more for that thing. So the rest of the people sit back and wait for the price to come down - which it usually does. Those who wanted to be the first on the block to own Wisconsin now have it, and now the rest of us are waiting to get a better price. The new and inexperienced will rush out to pay top dollar for a common chondrite because it is exciting to them, regardless of the petrologic type or circumstances of the fall. Perhaps the Class of Ash Creek has graduated and now we are seeing the benefits of patience, rational assessment, and experience. Of course, this could change in a moment when the second season of Meteorite Men starts and a new flock of eager beginners discovers meteorites. Or when the next brilliant fireball goes viral on YouTube. I still don't own a sizeable specimen of Ash Creek, Whetstone Mountains, Daule, or Wisconsin and I won't until the right price comes along. Those falls just don't fit into my collecting scheme - because they are ordinary chondrites that fell under ordinary circumstances (for the most part). Despite the marketing hype, there is little special about any of them beyond the significance the buyer attaches to them. Do any of the above have the makings of a truly historical fall - maybe, maybe not. Are they rare types? No. I'm not trying to downplay any of these falls, but I think few would argue that these falls were well worth the prices they were introduced at. Best regards, MikeG On 7/1/10, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello Listers, I have noticed with the Livingston WI meteorite Fall in April that the prices were at a good high, well over $100 a gram for the first month being sold on eBay and alike. And then a rush happened over night with a few sellers on eBay and the meteorite market and it was mayhem. However, in the past few weeks I have noticed prices dropping low, and I mean low. Tonight on eBay a WI slice weighing at 3.8 sold at $78 and another slice at 9.66g sold at $285. With other recent falls they tend to stay high for the first year from what I have seen with sales and research, but with
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
Hi Matt, Ash Creek for $20/gram? I'll start saving my nickels now and in a few weeks, I'll take a 2-gram piece for $40. :) Best regards, MikeG On 7/1/10, m...@mhmeteorites.com m...@mhmeteorites.com wrote: I don't see any difference between WI and Ash Creek. Ash Creek was over 100/g right after the fall, and can now be had for 20/g. The laws of economics never change. Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 -Original Message- From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 10:25:34 To: Shawn Alanphotoph...@yahoo.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July Hi Shawn and List, Perhaps I am off-base here, but I think we are witnessing (in part) a dynamic of collecting meteorites. New collectors are steadily entering this field/hobby and those who stay will mature and learn. Their knowledge of meteoritics, collecting, and the market will increase with their experience. What we saw with Ash Creek is different than what we are seeing now with Wisconsin because the greater collector market is maturing. Perhaps now we are in-between the influx crowds of newbies and the majority of current collectors are becoming more savvy in their purchases. One of the first lessons about falls that newbies learn is patience. It's the same with most things - the first person on the block to have a thing, pays much more for that thing. So the rest of the people sit back and wait for the price to come down - which it usually does. Those who wanted to be the first on the block to own Wisconsin now have it, and now the rest of us are waiting to get a better price. The new and inexperienced will rush out to pay top dollar for a common chondrite because it is exciting to them, regardless of the petrologic type or circumstances of the fall. Perhaps the Class of Ash Creek has graduated and now we are seeing the benefits of patience, rational assessment, and experience. Of course, this could change in a moment when the second season of Meteorite Men starts and a new flock of eager beginners discovers meteorites. Or when the next brilliant fireball goes viral on YouTube. I still don't own a sizeable specimen of Ash Creek, Whetstone Mountains, Daule, or Wisconsin and I won't until the right price comes along. Those falls just don't fit into my collecting scheme - because they are ordinary chondrites that fell under ordinary circumstances (for the most part). Despite the marketing hype, there is little special about any of them beyond the significance the buyer attaches to them. Do any of the above have the makings of a truly historical fall - maybe, maybe not. Are they rare types? No. I'm not trying to downplay any of these falls, but I think few would argue that these falls were well worth the prices they were introduced at. Best regards, MikeG On 7/1/10, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello Listers, I have noticed with the Livingston WI meteorite Fall in April that the prices were at a good high, well over $100 a gram for the first month being sold on eBay and alike. And then a rush happened over night with a few sellers on eBay and the meteorite market and it was mayhem. However, in the past few weeks I have noticed prices dropping low, and I mean low. Tonight on eBay a WI slice weighing at 3.8 sold at $78 and another slice at 9.66g sold at $285. With other recent falls they tend to stay high for the first year from what I have seen with sales and research, but with the WI fall this isn't the case. I am left to wondering why is it with this fall that it had a great led in sales in the first month and dropped so low in less then 2 months, not to mention the lack of WI meteorites found in the field? Is it that majority of the WI fall meteorites are being sold at a recorded high weight, dealers selling the big boys all at once? I see that this coming month that sales with historic falls will keep going up and the exchange of rare and special meteorite falls will be revisited for the fact of the rich history they command in the market and with collectors alike. Also not to mention, the new NWAs that keep popping up will bring a new twist to the collecting world. All I can say is history repeats its self and history can out weigh anything through and through again while trends come and go. Hold on and lets see what July brings for the hot summer month to cool our needs for meteorites. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p4340 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
That never made much sense to me. I suppose it might be the influx of new collectors, but...even so. I have the feeling that it really does have to do with the fact that more smaller-time dealer/collectors have been going out for each fall, finding fewer stones per person. Then, when they get home looking to recoup enough to cover their trips' expenses, they want to sell only a stone or two to cover their costs. In the old days, fewer people would travel out to recover new falls, and they would return with more material, fully prepared to sell nearly all of it. They would have more material to cover the same expenses/turn a profit. This makes sense. We are seeing the tenets of capitalism at work here, amongst other things. We cannot have our cake and eat it too. Best regards, MikeG On 7/1/10, Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com wrote: The tkw and number of stones recovered from WI are significantly smaller than those of Ash Creek, so prices are likely to stay fairly high, but...it's a fall like any other, so the price will likely deflate once the typical frenzy fades. I'm still trying to figure out why the price jump occurred, when the price for a new American fall went from $10/g in the mid-to-late 90's -- to $20-60/g for Park Forest -- to Ash Creek at $100/g. That never made much sense to me. I suppose it might be the influx of new collectors, but...even so. I have the feeling that it really does have to do with the fact that more smaller-time dealer/collectors have been going out for each fall, finding fewer stones per person. Then, when they get home looking to recoup enough to cover their trips' expenses, they want to sell only a stone or two to cover their costs. In the old days, fewer people would travel out to recover new falls, and they would return with more material, fully prepared to sell nearly all of it. They would have more material to cover the same expenses/turn a profit. Either way, the fallback price for these larger falls seems to settle at around $20/g, but I would still anticipate higher prices for meteorites like WI and Whetstone, where relatively few stones have been found and the tkw's have remained in the 3-4 kilogram range. Compare to Villalbeto de la Peña. Regards, Jason On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 7:28 AM, m...@mhmeteorites.com wrote: I don't see any difference between WI and Ash Creek. Ash Creek was over 100/g right after the fall, and can now be had for 20/g. The laws of economics never change. Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 -Original Message- From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 10:25:34 To: Shawn Alanphotoph...@yahoo.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July Hi Shawn and List, Perhaps I am off-base here, but I think we are witnessing (in part) a dynamic of collecting meteorites. New collectors are steadily entering this field/hobby and those who stay will mature and learn. Their knowledge of meteoritics, collecting, and the market will increase with their experience. What we saw with Ash Creek is different than what we are seeing now with Wisconsin because the greater collector market is maturing. Perhaps now we are in-between the influx crowds of newbies and the majority of current collectors are becoming more savvy in their purchases. One of the first lessons about falls that newbies learn is patience. It's the same with most things - the first person on the block to have a thing, pays much more for that thing. So the rest of the people sit back and wait for the price to come down - which it usually does. Those who wanted to be the first on the block to own Wisconsin now have it, and now the rest of us are waiting to get a better price. The new and inexperienced will rush out to pay top dollar for a common chondrite because it is exciting to them, regardless of the petrologic type or circumstances of the fall. Perhaps the Class of Ash Creek has graduated and now we are seeing the benefits of patience, rational assessment, and experience. Of course, this could change in a moment when the second season of Meteorite Men starts and a new flock of eager beginners discovers meteorites. Or when the next brilliant fireball goes viral on YouTube. I still don't own a sizeable specimen of Ash Creek, Whetstone Mountains, Daule, or Wisconsin and I won't until the right price comes along. Those falls just don't fit into my collecting scheme - because they are ordinary chondrites that fell under ordinary circumstances (for the most part). Despite the marketing hype, there is little special about any of them beyond the significance the buyer attaches to them. Do any of the above have the makings of a truly historical
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
List: I think it boils down to supply/demand. In recent years (perhaps the last 5 or so) there have been many new collectors - myself included, so the demand has increased. Then there is the supply side. Well with these recent falls, dealers and hunters have been selling the falls (Ash creek and WI) relatively soon while people were collecting - I think WI sooner than Ash Creek. It is during the time the supply is very low - and this sets the initial price. So early on, there is a lot of demand and Little supply, so the price starts at ~$100 simply because people will pay it. At this time the TKW is not know or sometimes even the classification - so people are willing to pay a lot in the beginning. Then as more is collected the supply increases a bit and the price then falls - for WI to about $70. It stabilized there for a while. What confused me about yesterday was the demand of WI was not there anymore. Perhaps this is trend like people say. Maybe at some point the interest decreases and collectors are buying others unique finds (like NWA 5400). So the price dropped sinificantly. I suspect it will increase, but not that much; I would be surprized to see it sell for over $50/grm. I think also with the increased publicity (Meteroite men, and news of falls) have made the market for falls increase significently. They are very collectable now; and to the newbee they are probable more attractive then perhaps a brachinite or Angrite because they may not have the knowledge of rare meteorites. So for the next fall - just wait it out, but there is a risk. This brings up another idea for a thread: What class or type of meteorite to you collect the most and are most interested it? I myself like rare ungrouped achondrites and my favorite is the Angrites. Greg S. Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 02:40:01 -0700 From: photoph...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July Hello Listers, I have noticed with the Livingston WI meteorite Fall in April that the prices were at a good high, well over $100 a gram for the first month being sold on eBay and alike. And then a rush happened over night with a few sellers on eBay and the meteorite market and it was mayhem. However, in the past few weeks I have noticed prices dropping low, and I mean low. Tonight on eBay a WI slice weighing at 3.8 sold at $78 and another slice at 9.66g sold at $285. With other recent falls they tend to stay high for the first year from what I have seen with sales and research, but with the WI fall this isn't the case. I am left to wondering why is it with this fall that it had a great led in sales in the first month and dropped so low in less then 2 months, not to mention the lack of WI meteorites found in the field? Is it that majority of the WI fall meteorites are being sold at a recorded high weight, dealers selling the big boys all at once? I see that this coming month that sales with historic falls will keep going up and the exchange of rare and special meteorite falls will be revisited for the fact of the rich history they command in the market and with collectors alike. Also not to mention, the new NWAs that keep popping up will bring a new twist to the collecting world. All I can say is history repeats its self and history can out weigh anything through and through again while trends come and go. Hold on and lets see what July brings for the hot summer month to cool our needs for meteorites. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p4340 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
Hello MikeG, Maybe you don't mean it, but your post implies that those that don't wait for some kind of price drop are inexperienced, impatient, or naïve. This couldn't be further from the truth. Many of those that purchase immediately are just the opposite - experienced, long-time collectors. It has nothing to do with being the first on the block to own it. In the case of Wisconsin, many wanted complete stones, which were few and far between. Many wanted pre-rain material. Whatever the reason, they are all good reasons, and everyone is happy. MikeG wrote: Despite the marketing hype, there is little special about any of them beyond the significance the buyer attaches to them. I won't attach any significance to them, but will state the facts: Whetstone Mountains - the first recovered Arizona fall in nearly 100 years. Probably the most documented recovery in history. Very little available to collectors. Fireball captured on video. Daule - the first and only Ecuadorian meteorite to ever be recovered. Obviously an historic event for Ecuador. Beautiful shock breccia. Under one kilo available to collectors. Wisconsin - the most covered fall in history. Witnessed by tens of thousands of people. Stunning breccia. Low recovered weight and horrible search/find ratio (much more expensive to find). The pre-rain, low-oxidized material will always hold a premium, because the contrast of the breccia is lost with oxidation. I believe this one will also be orbit calculated. For those of us who don't view things through the prisms of type or price, all meteorite falls and recoveries are special and significant events. Best regards, Mike Bandli -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com IMCA #5765 --- -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Galactic Stone Ironworks Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 7:26 AM To: Shawn Alan Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July Hi Shawn and List, Perhaps I am off-base here, but I think we are witnessing (in part) a dynamic of collecting meteorites. New collectors are steadily entering this field/hobby and those who stay will mature and learn. Their knowledge of meteoritics, collecting, and the market will increase with their experience. What we saw with Ash Creek is different than what we are seeing now with Wisconsin because the greater collector market is maturing. Perhaps now we are in-between the influx crowds of newbies and the majority of current collectors are becoming more savvy in their purchases. One of the first lessons about falls that newbies learn is patience. It's the same with most things - the first person on the block to have a thing, pays much more for that thing. So the rest of the people sit back and wait for the price to come down - which it usually does. Those who wanted to be the first on the block to own Wisconsin now have it, and now the rest of us are waiting to get a better price. The new and inexperienced will rush out to pay top dollar for a common chondrite because it is exciting to them, regardless of the petrologic type or circumstances of the fall. Perhaps the Class of Ash Creek has graduated and now we are seeing the benefits of patience, rational assessment, and experience. Of course, this could change in a moment when the second season of Meteorite Men starts and a new flock of eager beginners discovers meteorites. Or when the next brilliant fireball goes viral on YouTube. I still don't own a sizeable specimen of Ash Creek, Whetstone Mountains, Daule, or Wisconsin and I won't until the right price comes along. Those falls just don't fit into my collecting scheme - because they are ordinary chondrites that fell under ordinary circumstances (for the most part). Despite the marketing hype, there is little special about any of them beyond the significance the buyer attaches to them. Do any of the above have the makings of a truly historical fall - maybe, maybe not. Are they rare types? No. I'm not trying to downplay any of these falls, but I think few would argue that these falls were well worth the prices they were introduced at. Best regards, MikeG On 7/1/10, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello Listers, I have noticed with the Livingston WI meteorite Fall in April that the prices were at a good high, well over $100 a gram for the first month being sold on eBay and alike. And then a rush happened over night with a few sellers on eBay and the meteorite market and it was mayhem. However, in the past few weeks I have noticed prices dropping low, and I mean low. Tonight on eBay a WI slice weighing at 3.8 sold at $78 and another slice at 9.66g sold at $285. With other recent falls they tend to stay high for the first year from what I have
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
Hi Mike and List, No, I did not mean that first buyers are all inexperienced or impatient. Some are. Some are not. We all have different reasons for acquiring certain meteorites and the first on the block mentality appeals to many. If money was no concern for me, I would all sizeable specimens of every fall I mentioned. But I must be very careful with my funds - or my wife will kill me or the pantry will go empty. Whetstone Mountains - the first recovered Arizona fall in nearly 100 years. Probably the most documented recovery in history. Very little available to collectors. Fireball captured on video. Buzzard Coulee - first ever recovered fall in Saskatchewan. Fireball captured on video to great effect. The TKW is vastly different, but TKW should not be a factor in a fall being considered historical (IMO) - if so, every tiny Antarctic fragment would have historical significance despite not being witnessed. The prices for Buzzard are much lower than Whetstone and the only difference is TKW - not historical significance. Daule - the first and only Ecuadorian meteorite to ever be recovered. Obviously an historic event for Ecuador. Beautiful shock breccia. Under one kilo available to collectors. Ok, I am schooled on this one. I did not recall that the TKW was less than one kilo and I did not recall that it was Ecuador's first. I think the price on Daule has remained high not because of it's historical significance, but because the supply is tied up in the hands of a very few dealers who have coordinated their prices - essentially the price is fixed on Daule and the same could be argued (true or not) for Whetstone. Wisconsin - the most covered fall in history. Witnessed by tens of thousands of people. Stunning breccia. Low recovered weight and horrible search/find ratio (much more expensive to find). The pre-rain, low-oxidized material will always hold a premium, because the contrast of the breccia is lost with oxidation. I believe this one will also be orbit calculated. Like Ecuador, it is a beautiful breccia - but that is an aesthetic concern. There are tons of gorgeous breccias on the market. NWA 788 is a gorgeous breccia but it sells for pennies compared to Daule, Ash Creek, Peekskill or Wisconsin. Of course, I am comparing a NWA find to a witnessed fall, but a pretty breccia is a pretty breccia, and it's not rare. I am very eager to hear more about Wisconsin, including the classification data and orbit if it is calculated. It is odd that the TKW of Wisconsin will likely be much lower than Ash Creek, yet already the Wisconsin prices are dropping faster than Ash Creek did. Odd. For those of us who don't view things through the prisms of type or price, all meteorite falls and recoveries are special and significant events. I agree here. These are truly amazing events and opportunities to educate people about science. But I would remiss to ignore the economic factors behind the valuation criteria. Whetstone Mountains is a great fall and I do not mean to denigrate it in any way. But few would argue that the promotional strategy behind that fall played a significant role in it's market pricing. Schrader, Gheesling, Farmer and others did a great job in promoting the highlights of this fall - without that marketing machine, it may have faded into obscurity (and the bargain bin) much quicker. Some would argue that it was not marketing or promotion per-se, but perceptions cannot be ignored and there is a perception that these forces were at work behind that fall. Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG On 7/1/10, Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net wrote: Hello MikeG, Maybe you don't mean it, but your post implies that those that don't wait for some kind of price drop are inexperienced, impatient, or naïve. This couldn't be further from the truth. Many of those that purchase immediately are just the opposite - experienced, long-time collectors. It has nothing to do with being the first on the block to own it. In the case of Wisconsin, many wanted complete stones, which were few and far between. Many wanted pre-rain material. Whatever the reason, they are all good reasons, and everyone is happy. MikeG wrote: Despite the marketing hype, there is little special about any of them beyond the significance the buyer attaches to them. I won't attach any significance to them, but will state the facts: Whetstone Mountains - the first recovered Arizona fall in nearly 100 years. Probably the most documented recovery in history. Very little available to collectors. Fireball captured on video. Daule - the first and only Ecuadorian meteorite to ever be recovered. Obviously an historic event for Ecuador. Beautiful shock breccia. Under one kilo available to collectors. Wisconsin - the most covered fall in history. Witnessed by tens of thousands of people. Stunning breccia. Low recovered weight and horrible search/find ratio (much more expensive to find). The
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
MikeB: I agree: I think many people that wait are the long time experienced collectors, trying to get the most for their buck. I think however, there's something about having one of the most fresh (complete stones) or even a hammer from a highly publicized fall like WI. If you have the money - why not. Greg S. From: fuzzf...@comcast.net To: meteoritem...@gmail.com; photoph...@yahoo.com Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 08:59:48 -0700 CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July Hello MikeG, Maybe you don't mean it, but your post implies that those that don't wait for some kind of price drop are inexperienced, impatient, or naïve. This couldn't be further from the truth. Many of those that purchase immediately are just the opposite - experienced, long-time collectors. It has nothing to do with being the first on the block to own it. In the case of Wisconsin, many wanted complete stones, which were few and far between. Many wanted pre-rain material. Whatever the reason, they are all good reasons, and everyone is happy. MikeG wrote: Despite the marketing hype, there is little special about any of them beyond the significance the buyer attaches to them. I won't attach any significance to them, but will state the facts: Whetstone Mountains - the first recovered Arizona fall in nearly 100 years. Probably the most documented recovery in history. Very little available to collectors. Fireball captured on video. Daule - the first and only Ecuadorian meteorite to ever be recovered. Obviously an historic event for Ecuador. Beautiful shock breccia. Under one kilo available to collectors. Wisconsin - the most covered fall in history. Witnessed by tens of thousands of people. Stunning breccia. Low recovered weight and horrible search/find ratio (much more expensive to find). The pre-rain, low-oxidized material will always hold a premium, because the contrast of the breccia is lost with oxidation. I believe this one will also be orbit calculated. For those of us who don't view things through the prisms of type or price, all meteorite falls and recoveries are special and significant events. Best regards, Mike Bandli -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com IMCA #5765 --- -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Galactic Stone Ironworks Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 7:26 AM To: Shawn Alan Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July Hi Shawn and List, Perhaps I am off-base here, but I think we are witnessing (in part) a dynamic of collecting meteorites. New collectors are steadily entering this field/hobby and those who stay will mature and learn. Their knowledge of meteoritics, collecting, and the market will increase with their experience. What we saw with Ash Creek is different than what we are seeing now with Wisconsin because the greater collector market is maturing. Perhaps now we are in-between the influx crowds of newbies and the majority of current collectors are becoming more savvy in their purchases. One of the first lessons about falls that newbies learn is patience. It's the same with most things - the first person on the block to have a thing, pays much more for that thing. So the rest of the people sit back and wait for the price to come down - which it usually does. Those who wanted to be the first on the block to own Wisconsin now have it, and now the rest of us are waiting to get a better price. The new and inexperienced will rush out to pay top dollar for a common chondrite because it is exciting to them, regardless of the petrologic type or circumstances of the fall. Perhaps the Class of Ash Creek has graduated and now we are seeing the benefits of patience, rational assessment, and experience. Of course, this could change in a moment when the second season of Meteorite Men starts and a new flock of eager beginners discovers meteorites. Or when the next brilliant fireball goes viral on YouTube. I still don't own a sizeable specimen of Ash Creek, Whetstone Mountains, Daule, or Wisconsin and I won't until the right price comes along. Those falls just don't fit into my collecting scheme - because they are ordinary chondrites that fell under ordinary circumstances (for the most part). Despite the marketing hype, there is little special about any of them beyond the significance the buyer attaches to them. Do any of the above have the makings of a truly historical fall - maybe, maybe not. Are they rare types? No. I'm not trying to downplay any of these falls, but I think few would argue that these falls were well worth the prices they were
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
MikeG wrote: The TKW is vastly different, but TKW should not be a factor in a fall being considered historical. I think you mean historic, but I said nothing about TKW meaning something was historic or that Buzzard was not significant. In the end, I think this is all being overanalyzed to death. There is no magic formula for determining what the price is going to do. Did the price go down on Puerto Lapice, or Villalbeto de la Peña, or Daule, or Leighlinbridge? I bet many wish they did not wait for prices to fall on those. Cheers! Mike Bandli -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com IMCA #5765 --- -Original Message- From: Galactic Stone Ironworks [mailto:meteoritem...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 9:23 AM To: Mike Bandli Cc: Shawn Alan; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July Hi Mike and List, No, I did not mean that first buyers are all inexperienced or impatient. Some are. Some are not. We all have different reasons for acquiring certain meteorites and the first on the block mentality appeals to many. If money was no concern for me, I would all sizeable specimens of every fall I mentioned. But I must be very careful with my funds - or my wife will kill me or the pantry will go empty. Whetstone Mountains - the first recovered Arizona fall in nearly 100 years. Probably the most documented recovery in history. Very little available to collectors. Fireball captured on video. Buzzard Coulee - first ever recovered fall in Saskatchewan. Fireball captured on video to great effect. The TKW is vastly different, but TKW should not be a factor in a fall being considered historical (IMO) - if so, every tiny Antarctic fragment would have historical significance despite not being witnessed. The prices for Buzzard are much lower than Whetstone and the only difference is TKW - not historical significance. Daule - the first and only Ecuadorian meteorite to ever be recovered. Obviously an historic event for Ecuador. Beautiful shock breccia. Under one kilo available to collectors. Ok, I am schooled on this one. I did not recall that the TKW was less than one kilo and I did not recall that it was Ecuador's first. I think the price on Daule has remained high not because of it's historical significance, but because the supply is tied up in the hands of a very few dealers who have coordinated their prices - essentially the price is fixed on Daule and the same could be argued (true or not) for Whetstone. Wisconsin - the most covered fall in history. Witnessed by tens of thousands of people. Stunning breccia. Low recovered weight and horrible search/find ratio (much more expensive to find). The pre-rain, low-oxidized material will always hold a premium, because the contrast of the breccia is lost with oxidation. I believe this one will also be orbit calculated. Like Ecuador, it is a beautiful breccia - but that is an aesthetic concern. There are tons of gorgeous breccias on the market. NWA 788 is a gorgeous breccia but it sells for pennies compared to Daule, Ash Creek, Peekskill or Wisconsin. Of course, I am comparing a NWA find to a witnessed fall, but a pretty breccia is a pretty breccia, and it's not rare. I am very eager to hear more about Wisconsin, including the classification data and orbit if it is calculated. It is odd that the TKW of Wisconsin will likely be much lower than Ash Creek, yet already the Wisconsin prices are dropping faster than Ash Creek did. Odd. For those of us who don't view things through the prisms of type or price, all meteorite falls and recoveries are special and significant events. I agree here. These are truly amazing events and opportunities to educate people about science. But I would remiss to ignore the economic factors behind the valuation criteria. Whetstone Mountains is a great fall and I do not mean to denigrate it in any way. But few would argue that the promotional strategy behind that fall played a significant role in it's market pricing. Schrader, Gheesling, Farmer and others did a great job in promoting the highlights of this fall - without that marketing machine, it may have faded into obscurity (and the bargain bin) much quicker. Some would argue that it was not marketing or promotion per-se, but perceptions cannot be ignored and there is a perception that these forces were at work behind that fall. Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG On 7/1/10, Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net wrote: Hello MikeG, Maybe you don't mean it, but your post implies that those that don't wait for some kind of price drop are inexperienced, impatient, or naïve. This couldn't be further from the truth. Many of those that purchase immediately are just the opposite - experienced, long-time collectors. It has nothing to do with being the first on
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
In the end, I think this is all being overanalyzed to death. There is no magic formula for determining what the price is going to do. Did the price go down on Puerto Lapice, or Villalbeto de la Peña, or Daule, or Leighlinbridge? I bet many wish they did not wait for prices to fall on those. Agreed here. There is only one certainty about the meteorite market - she is fickle mistress. ;) There some falls that will never come down in price, due to scarcity of available specimens. Cali is a good example I think. Whetstone will likely hold it's value well. Maybe a good discussion would be ATW - or available total weight. A fall may have a sizeable TKW, but if the majority of the material is locked away from the private market, then the price will reflect that. Best regards, MikeG On 7/1/10, Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net wrote: MikeG wrote: The TKW is vastly different, but TKW should not be a factor in a fall being considered historical. I think you mean historic, but I said nothing about TKW meaning something was historic or that Buzzard was not significant. In the end, I think this is all being overanalyzed to death. There is no magic formula for determining what the price is going to do. Did the price go down on Puerto Lapice, or Villalbeto de la Peña, or Daule, or Leighlinbridge? I bet many wish they did not wait for prices to fall on those. Cheers! Mike Bandli -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com IMCA #5765 --- -Original Message- From: Galactic Stone Ironworks [mailto:meteoritem...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 9:23 AM To: Mike Bandli Cc: Shawn Alan; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July Hi Mike and List, No, I did not mean that first buyers are all inexperienced or impatient. Some are. Some are not. We all have different reasons for acquiring certain meteorites and the first on the block mentality appeals to many. If money was no concern for me, I would all sizeable specimens of every fall I mentioned. But I must be very careful with my funds - or my wife will kill me or the pantry will go empty. Whetstone Mountains - the first recovered Arizona fall in nearly 100 years. Probably the most documented recovery in history. Very little available to collectors. Fireball captured on video. Buzzard Coulee - first ever recovered fall in Saskatchewan. Fireball captured on video to great effect. The TKW is vastly different, but TKW should not be a factor in a fall being considered historical (IMO) - if so, every tiny Antarctic fragment would have historical significance despite not being witnessed. The prices for Buzzard are much lower than Whetstone and the only difference is TKW - not historical significance. Daule - the first and only Ecuadorian meteorite to ever be recovered. Obviously an historic event for Ecuador. Beautiful shock breccia. Under one kilo available to collectors. Ok, I am schooled on this one. I did not recall that the TKW was less than one kilo and I did not recall that it was Ecuador's first. I think the price on Daule has remained high not because of it's historical significance, but because the supply is tied up in the hands of a very few dealers who have coordinated their prices - essentially the price is fixed on Daule and the same could be argued (true or not) for Whetstone. Wisconsin - the most covered fall in history. Witnessed by tens of thousands of people. Stunning breccia. Low recovered weight and horrible search/find ratio (much more expensive to find). The pre-rain, low-oxidized material will always hold a premium, because the contrast of the breccia is lost with oxidation. I believe this one will also be orbit calculated. Like Ecuador, it is a beautiful breccia - but that is an aesthetic concern. There are tons of gorgeous breccias on the market. NWA 788 is a gorgeous breccia but it sells for pennies compared to Daule, Ash Creek, Peekskill or Wisconsin. Of course, I am comparing a NWA find to a witnessed fall, but a pretty breccia is a pretty breccia, and it's not rare. I am very eager to hear more about Wisconsin, including the classification data and orbit if it is calculated. It is odd that the TKW of Wisconsin will likely be much lower than Ash Creek, yet already the Wisconsin prices are dropping faster than Ash Creek did. Odd. For those of us who don't view things through the prisms of type or price, all meteorite falls and recoveries are special and significant events. I agree here. These are truly amazing events and opportunities to educate people about science. But I would remiss to ignore the economic factors behind the valuation criteria. Whetstone Mountains is a great fall and I do not mean to denigrate it in any way. But few would argue that the
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
The WI fall was a strange one. I think too many people were trying to get rich of others. Before anyone comes at me with the numbers of the trip, I know and I understand, but at the same time, it can be done for much less. When I see reports of the landowners selling the stones for less then $10 per gram (I know of several who would not pay more the $3 per gram!)and then see them selling it for $100/g or more, thats just too much... Why do you think the 2 kg stone was hushed up so much? I have seen pics of it, so have many others and yet nobody wants to act like it exists and people still call a 330g stone the main mass when in reality, its far from the main mass. I dont like the trend with new falls and the prices that go with them, its taking advantage of collectors. Thats the whole reason I sold my WI material at $60 or less when others were still getting $100 or more... and I got many mean emails filled with profanity over putting that price public... Why? They knew they it would hurt the value. I did not sell it for that to do that, I did it because its not worth any more then that, and anyone who says it is, I ask again, why? There is likely 10kg or more of the fall, its not rare by any means. Sure there is a price to pay for those that cant make it to the fall site, but when is it too much? Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July To: Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 2:40 PM In the end, I think this is all being overanalyzed to death. There is no magic formula for determining what the price is going to do. Did the price go down on Puerto Lapice, or Villalbeto de la Peña, or Daule, or Leighlinbridge? I bet many wish they did not wait for prices to fall on those. Agreed here. There is only one certainty about the meteorite market - she is fickle mistress. ;) There some falls that will never come down in price, due to scarcity of available specimens. Cali is a good example I think. Whetstone will likely hold it's value well. Maybe a good discussion would be ATW - or available total weight. A fall may have a sizeable TKW, but if the majority of the material is locked away from the private market, then the price will reflect that. Best regards, MikeG On 7/1/10, Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net wrote: MikeG wrote: The TKW is vastly different, but TKW should not be a factor in a fall being considered historical. I think you mean historic, but I said nothing about TKW meaning something was historic or that Buzzard was not significant. In the end, I think this is all being overanalyzed to death. There is no magic formula for determining what the price is going to do. Did the price go down on Puerto Lapice, or Villalbeto de la Peña, or Daule, or Leighlinbridge? I bet many wish they did not wait for prices to fall on those. Cheers! Mike Bandli -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com IMCA #5765 --- -Original Message- From: Galactic Stone Ironworks [mailto:meteoritem...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 9:23 AM To: Mike Bandli Cc: Shawn Alan; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July Hi Mike and List, No, I did not mean that first buyers are all inexperienced or impatient. Some are. Some are not. We all have different reasons for acquiring certain meteorites and the first on the block mentality appeals to many. If money was no concern for me, I would all sizeable specimens of every fall I mentioned. But I must be very careful with my funds - or my wife will kill me or the pantry will go empty. Whetstone Mountains - the first recovered Arizona fall in nearly 100 years. Probably the most documented recovery in history. Very little available to collectors. Fireball captured on video. Buzzard Coulee - first ever recovered fall in Saskatchewan. Fireball captured on video to great effect. The TKW is vastly different, but TKW should not be a factor in a fall being considered historical (IMO) - if so, every tiny Antarctic fragment would have historical significance despite not being witnessed. The prices for Buzzard are much lower than Whetstone and the only difference is TKW - not historical significance. Daule - the first and only Ecuadorian meteorite to ever be recovered.
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
Greg and Listers Greg I am kinda confused by your statement about how much you sold your WI meteorite falls for on eBay when you said this. 'I dont like the trend with new falls and the prices that go with them, its taking advantage of collectors. Thats the whole reason I sold my WI material at $60 or less when others were still getting $100 or more But your sold many WI fall meteorite fragsments for $100 or more per gram on eBay with only buy it now options. Good example is this listing on ebay: awesome 2.30 gram fusion crusted COMPLETE SLICE of the Meteorite that fell in Wisconsin on April 14, 2010. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=390192619325 and you sold it for $230 with only a buy it now option, hmmm. I am confused now by your statement about how you dont like trends where people increse the price on falls when they are new. Another example is you sold many micros on ebay for with only a buy it now option for $10 at that rate the collecter paid well over $500 a gram at that inflated price. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=390196100905 Again trends come and go and this month is going to be a month with a rise with historic falls and rare meteorites going up for record sales in the past few months. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p4340 --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July To: Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 2:05 PM The WI fall was a strange one. I think too many people were trying to get rich of others. Before anyone comes at me with the numbers of the trip, I know and I understand, but at the same time, it can be done for much less. When I see reports of the landowners selling the stones for less then $10 per gram (I know of several who would not pay more the $3 per gram!)and then see them selling it for $100/g or more, thats just too much... Why do you think the 2 kg stone was hushed up so much? I have seen pics of it, so have many others and yet nobody wants to act like it exists and people still call a 330g stone the main mass when in reality, its far from the main mass. I dont like the trend with new falls and the prices that go with them, its taking advantage of collectors. Thats the whole reason I sold my WI material at $60 or less when others were still getting $100 or more... and I got many mean emails filled with profanity over putting that price public... Why? They knew they it would hurt the value. I did not sell it for that to do that, I did it because its not worth any more then that, and anyone who says it is, I ask again, why? There is likely 10kg or more of the fall, its not rare by any means. Sure there is a price to pay for those that cant make it to the fall site, but when is it too much? Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July To: Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 2:40 PM In the end, I think this is all being overanalyzed to death. There is no magic formula for determining what the price is going to do. Did the price go down on Puerto Lapice, or Villalbeto de la Peña, or Daule, or Leighlinbridge? I bet many wish they did not wait for prices to fall on those. Agreed here. There is only one certainty about the meteorite market - she is fickle mistress. ;) There some falls that will never come down in price, due to scarcity of available specimens. Cali is a good example I think. Whetstone will likely hold it's value well. Maybe a good discussion would be ATW - or available total weight. A fall may have a sizeable TKW, but if the majority of the material is locked away from the private market, then the price will reflect that. Best regards, MikeG On 7/1/10, Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net wrote: MikeG wrote: The TKW is vastly different, but TKW should not be a factor in a fall being considered historical. I think you mean historic, but I said nothing about TKW meaning something was historic or that Buzzard was not significant. In the end, I think this is all being overanalyzed to death. There is no magic formula for determining what the price is going to do. Did the price go down on Puerto Lapice, or
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
That was on ebay after I had offered it to metlist members at $60 per gram. To be honest, some paid less then $40 per gram who have been good customers of mine. Once I filled the requests on here, yeah I did try to cash in a little bit on ebay, but keep in mind about 18% of the cost went to fees. I'm not going to play it off like I'm not out to make money selling meteorites but I do know I was the first one to offer samples well under $100 per gram - almost 1/2 the price others were asking. I made a trip out there, came back empty handed, but still had a lot of fun. Same with the PA fall last year. It cost money, I did not find anything but my family and I had a great time. No money lost in my opinion. I do understand costs, and I'm not taking shots at anyone. Just offering my opinion of the fresh fall frenzy and how I feel as a collector being asked to pay $100 per gram for an OC when its all over the papers that people are paying less the $10 per gram for it. I made it to and from WI on less then $200 and stayed for under$50 per night. A week would have cost me about $450. One 4.9g stone bought at $10 per gram pays for the trip. How many found much more then that? That's Real numbers... To top it off and put it into perspective, I have had someone tell me anything over $100 per gram is too much for an angrite like mine, but they pay $100/g for an OC? Haha. Greg Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 13:46:45 To: Mike Bandlifuzzf...@comcast.net; Galactic Stone Ironworksmeteoritem...@gmail.com; Greg Cattertonstar_wars_collec...@yahoo.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July Greg and Listers Greg I am kinda confused by your statement about how much you sold your WI meteorite falls for on eBay when you said this. 'I dont like the trend with new falls and the prices that go with them, its taking advantage of collectors. Thats the whole reason I sold my WI material at $60 or less when others were still getting $100 or more But your sold many WI fall meteorite fragsments for $100 or more per gram on eBay with only buy it now options. Good example is this listing on ebay: awesome 2.30 gram fusion crusted COMPLETE SLICE of the Meteorite that fell in Wisconsin on April 14, 2010. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=390192619325 and you sold it for $230 with only a buy it now option, hmmm. I am confused now by your statement about how you dont like trends where people increse the price on falls when they are new. Another example is you sold many micros on ebay for with only a buy it now option for $10 at that rate the collecter paid well over $500 a gram at that inflated price. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=390196100905 Again trends come and go and this month is going to be a month with a rise with historic falls and rare meteorites going up for record sales in the past few months. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p4340 --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July To: Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 2:05 PM The WI fall was a strange one. I think too many people were trying to get rich of others. Before anyone comes at me with the numbers of the trip, I know and I understand, but at the same time, it can be done for much less. When I see reports of the landowners selling the stones for less then $10 per gram (I know of several who would not pay more the $3 per gram!)and then see them selling it for $100/g or more, thats just too much... Why do you think the 2 kg stone was hushed up so much? I have seen pics of it, so have many others and yet nobody wants to act like it exists and people still call a 330g stone the main mass when in reality, its far from the main mass. I dont like the trend with new falls and the prices that go with them, its taking advantage of collectors. Thats the whole reason I sold my WI material at $60 or less when others were still getting $100 or more... and I got many mean emails filled with profanity over putting that price public... Why? They knew they it would hurt the value. I did not sell it for that to do that, I did it because its not worth any more then that, and anyone who says it is, I ask again, why? There is likely 10kg or more of the fall, its not rare by any means. Sure there is a price to pay for those that cant make it to the fall site, but when is it too much? Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
Again, it is a matter of supply and demand and whether an individual collector is willing to pay the price. The TKW for the WI fall is currently low, but that wasn't known when the $100/gm prices were being charged. Reports that the material was being bought from landownwers at $10/gm or less don't help the feeling among collectors that they were/are being gouged, but then it is an individual's choice to buy or not to buy. Nobody likes to feel that they are being taken advantage of, but if that is the way it feels, don't buy (I know that's hard!) As a collector, I don't like the price trends either, particularly when old, historic falls with museum provenance are sometimes cheaper per gram, but there is no right level for a fall, we are not entitled to a certain price. The market will decide. Best regards, David -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Greg Catterton Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 4:05 PM To: Mike Bandli; Galactic Stone Ironworks Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Shawn Alan Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July The WI fall was a strange one. I think too many people were trying to get rich of others. Before anyone comes at me with the numbers of the trip, I know and I understand, but at the same time, it can be done for much less. When I see reports of the landowners selling the stones for less then $10 per gram (I know of several who would not pay more the $3 per gram!)and then see them selling it for $100/g or more, thats just too much... Why do you think the 2 kg stone was hushed up so much? I have seen pics of it, so have many others and yet nobody wants to act like it exists and people still call a 330g stone the main mass when in reality, its far from the main mass. I dont like the trend with new falls and the prices that go with them, its taking advantage of collectors. Thats the whole reason I sold my WI material at $60 or less when others were still getting $100 or more... and I got many mean emails filled with profanity over putting that price public... Why? They knew they it would hurt the value. I did not sell it for that to do that, I did it because its not worth any more then that, and anyone who says it is, I ask again, why? There is likely 10kg or more of the fall, its not rare by any means. Sure there is a price to pay for those that cant make it to the fall site, but when is it too much? Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July To: Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 2:40 PM In the end, I think this is all being overanalyzed to death. There is no magic formula for determining what the price is going to do. Did the price go down on Puerto Lapice, or Villalbeto de la Peña, or Daule, or Leighlinbridge? I bet many wish they did not wait for prices to fall on those. Agreed here. There is only one certainty about the meteorite market - she is fickle mistress. ;) There some falls that will never come down in price, due to scarcity of available specimens. Cali is a good example I think. Whetstone will likely hold it's value well. Maybe a good discussion would be ATW - or available total weight. A fall may have a sizeable TKW, but if the majority of the material is locked away from the private market, then the price will reflect that. Best regards, MikeG On 7/1/10, Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net wrote: MikeG wrote: The TKW is vastly different, but TKW should not be a factor in a fall being considered historical. I think you mean historic, but I said nothing about TKW meaning something was historic or that Buzzard was not significant. In the end, I think this is all being overanalyzed to death. There is no magic formula for determining what the price is going to do. Did the price go down on Puerto Lapice, or Villalbeto de la Peña, or Daule, or Leighlinbridge? I bet many wish they did not wait for prices to fall on those. Cheers! Mike Bandli -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com IMCA #5765 --- -Original Message- From: Galactic Stone Ironworks [mailto:meteoritem...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 9:23 AM To: Mike Bandli Cc: Shawn Alan; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
Hey Greg, Back in the 1990s I was told by a friend who runs a number of successful software businesses some sage advice. You charge what your product is worth, not what it costs. One reason I like buying meteorites on ebay is because the gavel prices reflect what the market is, not what someone thinks it should be. If you price your material at $X per gram but some other dealer gets $X times two at auction the fair market value is twice what you are charging. Unfortunately this also works the other way. If a meteorite cost you $X per gram, be it something you bought from another dealer or hunted yourself, and no collector is going to pay 1/2X per gram, unfortunately the worth of the material is half your cost. You can try to sell it for your cost plus a profit, but it isn't worth that. In this case you can only sell at what its worth, not what it cost. I've seen plenty of material on dealer websites that are priced at cost plus profit and they don't move, but if it was priced at what it was worth it'd fly off the shelves. Of course they would lose money in this case, but I can't understand how some dealers can have they money tied up in material that isn't selling, for what it cost, not what its worth... As for Wisconsin, if there are buyers willing to plunk down $100 per gram, when the dealer only paid $10 per, or even $3 per, that's good for everyone. The buyer got the material at what they thought it was worth and the seller moved it at what it was worth. The actual cost to the dealer is irrelevant. For me personally, this fall isn't worth $10 per gram, so I have only been an interested bystander in seeing the sales prices. Come down to $5 per gram and I'll discuss buying it, but not at anything above that. For me, that's what these stones are worth. I assume that those paying $100 per gram felt their stones were worth %100 per gram. They too paid what they felt it was worth, not what it cost the dealer to obtain... That's the demand side of the equation that I feel is often lost in these discussions. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
Greg C wrote: When I see reports of the landowners selling the stones for less then $10 per gram (I know of several who would not pay more the $3 per gram!)and then see them selling it for $100/g or more, thats just too much... What a hunter or dealer pays for a meteorite in the field is irrelevant. -It is a wholesale purchase- Don't forget the expenses incurred to be there in the first place. Personally, I had over $3k in expenses for a single week and didn't find a single stone. Still, I ended up paying another hunter the going retail price for a stone without hesitation. And what about the hunters that found stones for 'free' on the side of the road or didn't pay anything? Should they charge less than the ones that paid landowners? See, it really doesn't matter. It might sting a little, at the register, to think about what the movie theatre really paid for the popcorn, coke, and Raisinettes I was about to enjoy, but I am not going to think about it or let it ruin my movie. Enjoy the movies, my friend! Best regards, Mike Bandli -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com IMCA #5765 --- -Original Message- From: Greg Catterton [mailto:star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 1:05 PM To: Mike Bandli; Galactic Stone Ironworks Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Shawn Alan Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July The WI fall was a strange one. I think too many people were trying to get rich of others. Before anyone comes at me with the numbers of the trip, I know and I understand, but at the same time, it can be done for much less. When I see reports of the landowners selling the stones for less then $10 per gram (I know of several who would not pay more the $3 per gram!)and then see them selling it for $100/g or more, thats just too much... Why do you think the 2 kg stone was hushed up so much? I have seen pics of it, so have many others and yet nobody wants to act like it exists and people still call a 330g stone the main mass when in reality, its far from the main mass. I dont like the trend with new falls and the prices that go with them, its taking advantage of collectors. Thats the whole reason I sold my WI material at $60 or less when others were still getting $100 or more... and I got many mean emails filled with profanity over putting that price public... Why? They knew they it would hurt the value. I did not sell it for that to do that, I did it because its not worth any more then that, and anyone who says it is, I ask again, why? There is likely 10kg or more of the fall, its not rare by any means. Sure there is a price to pay for those that cant make it to the fall site, but when is it too much? Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July To: Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 2:40 PM In the end, I think this is all being overanalyzed to death. There is no magic formula for determining what the price is going to do. Did the price go down on Puerto Lapice, or Villalbeto de la Peña, or Daule, or Leighlinbridge? I bet many wish they did not wait for prices to fall on those. Agreed here. There is only one certainty about the meteorite market - she is fickle mistress. ;) There some falls that will never come down in price, due to scarcity of available specimens. Cali is a good example I think. Whetstone will likely hold it's value well. Maybe a good discussion would be ATW - or available total weight. A fall may have a sizeable TKW, but if the majority of the material is locked away from the private market, then the price will reflect that. Best regards, MikeG On 7/1/10, Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net wrote: MikeG wrote: The TKW is vastly different, but TKW should not be a factor in a fall being considered historical. I think you mean historic, but I said nothing about TKW meaning something was historic or that Buzzard was not significant. In the end, I think this is all being overanalyzed to death. There is no magic formula for determining what the price is going to do. Did the price go down on Puerto Lapice, or Villalbeto de la Peña, or Daule, or Leighlinbridge? I bet many wish they did not wait for prices to fall on those. Cheers! Mike Bandli -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com IMCA #5765
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
In my book: Every stone is worth what I paid for it, and all my finds are priceless. I spent 5 days in WI and came up empty, but had a blast - even my feet where covered with blisters. But I marched on; I loved every minute of hunting. Greg S. From: fuzzf...@comcast.net To: star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com; meteoritem...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 14:46:48 -0700 CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; photoph...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July Greg C wrote: When I see reports of the landowners selling the stones for less then $10 per gram (I know of several who would not pay more the $3 per gram!)and then see them selling it for $100/g or more, thats just too much... What a hunter or dealer pays for a meteorite in the field is irrelevant. -It is a wholesale purchase- Don't forget the expenses incurred to be there in the first place. Personally, I had over $3k in expenses for a single week and didn't find a single stone. Still, I ended up paying another hunter the going retail price for a stone without hesitation. And what about the hunters that found stones for 'free' on the side of the road or didn't pay anything? Should they charge less than the ones that paid landowners? See, it really doesn't matter. It might sting a little, at the register, to think about what the movie theatre really paid for the popcorn, coke, and Raisinettes I was about to enjoy, but I am not going to think about it or let it ruin my movie. Enjoy the movies, my friend! Best regards, Mike Bandli -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com IMCA #5765 --- -Original Message- From: Greg Catterton [mailto:star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 1:05 PM To: Mike Bandli; Galactic Stone Ironworks Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Shawn Alan Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July The WI fall was a strange one. I think too many people were trying to get rich of others. Before anyone comes at me with the numbers of the trip, I know and I understand, but at the same time, it can be done for much less. When I see reports of the landowners selling the stones for less then $10 per gram (I know of several who would not pay more the $3 per gram!)and then see them selling it for $100/g or more, thats just too much... Why do you think the 2 kg stone was hushed up so much? I have seen pics of it, so have many others and yet nobody wants to act like it exists and people still call a 330g stone the main mass when in reality, its far from the main mass. I dont like the trend with new falls and the prices that go with them, its taking advantage of collectors. Thats the whole reason I sold my WI material at $60 or less when others were still getting $100 or more... and I got many mean emails filled with profanity over putting that price public... Why? They knew they it would hurt the value. I did not sell it for that to do that, I did it because its not worth any more then that, and anyone who says it is, I ask again, why? There is likely 10kg or more of the fall, its not rare by any means. Sure there is a price to pay for those that cant make it to the fall site, but when is it too much? Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Galactic Stone Ironworks wrote: From: Galactic Stone Ironworks Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July To: Mike Bandli Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, Shawn Alan Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 2:40 PM In the end, I think this is all being overanalyzed to death. There is no magic formula for determining what the price is going to do. Did the price go down on Puerto Lapice, or Villalbeto de la Peña, or Daule, or Leighlinbridge? I bet many wish they did not wait for prices to fall on those. Agreed here. There is only one certainty about the meteorite market - she is fickle mistress. ;) There some falls that will never come down in price, due to scarcity of available specimens. Cali is a good example I think. Whetstone will likely hold it's value well. Maybe a good discussion would be ATW - or available total weight. A fall may have a sizeable TKW, but if the majority of the material is locked away from the private market, then the price will reflect that. Best regards, MikeG On 7/1/10, Mike Bandli wrote: MikeG wrote: The TKW is vastly different, but TKW should not be a factor in a fall being considered historical. I think you mean historic, but I said nothing about TKW meaning something was historic or that Buzzard was not significant.
Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
Hopefully this topic won't go down hill like some others have recently. I have been sitting back just reading for a long time and not saying much but I would like to add a comment. I guess it would be in Greg's defense but I remember back when the first pieces of the WI fireball hit ebay there were a couple listers here that really cashed in at $300-400/gr. I know demand drives price and some people will pay what ever to get a piece. That is just free enterprise. Everyone know that anyone that is selling something is out to make money or else they would not be selling something. Greg made it possible for me to add a small WI addition to my collection early in the game when it seemed the going price was way over $100/gr. Thank you! Not all of us have the deep pockets that some here have and we have to sacrifice size to gain quantity. Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secretary, Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society - Original Message - From: star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com; Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net; Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July That was on ebay after I had offered it to metlist members at $60 per gram. To be honest, some paid less then $40 per gram who have been good customers of mine. Once I filled the requests on here, yeah I did try to cash in a little bit on ebay, but keep in mind about 18% of the cost went to fees. I'm not going to play it off like I'm not out to make money selling meteorites but I do know I was the first one to offer samples well under $100 per gram - almost 1/2 the price others were asking. I made a trip out there, came back empty handed, but still had a lot of fun. Same with the PA fall last year. It cost money, I did not find anything but my family and I had a great time. No money lost in my opinion. I do understand costs, and I'm not taking shots at anyone. Just offering my opinion of the fresh fall frenzy and how I feel as a collector being asked to pay $100 per gram for an OC when its all over the papers that people are paying less the $10 per gram for it. I made it to and from WI on less then $200 and stayed for under$50 per night. A week would have cost me about $450. One 4.9g stone bought at $10 per gram pays for the trip. How many found much more then that? That's Real numbers... To top it off and put it into perspective, I have had someone tell me anything over $100 per gram is too much for an angrite like mine, but they pay $100/g for an OC? Haha. Greg Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 13:46:45 To: Mike Bandlifuzzf...@comcast.net; Galactic Stone Ironworksmeteoritem...@gmail.com; Greg Cattertonstar_wars_collec...@yahoo.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July Greg and Listers Greg I am kinda confused by your statement about how much you sold your WI meteorite falls for on eBay when you said this. 'I dont like the trend with new falls and the prices that go with them, its taking advantage of collectors. Thats the whole reason I sold my WI material at $60 or less when others were still getting $100 or more But your sold many WI fall meteorite fragsments for $100 or more per gram on eBay with only buy it now options. Good example is this listing on ebay: awesome 2.30 gram fusion crusted COMPLETE SLICE of the Meteorite that fell in Wisconsin on April 14, 2010. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=390192619325 and you sold it for $230 with only a buy it now option, hmmm. I am confused now by your statement about how you dont like trends where people increse the price on falls when they are new. Another example is you sold many micros on ebay for with only a buy it now option for $10 at that rate the collecter paid well over $500 a gram at that inflated price. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=390196100905 Again trends come and go and this month is going to be a month with a rise with historic falls and rare meteorites going up for record sales in the past few months. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p4340 --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July To: Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 2:05 PM The WI fall was a strange one. I think too many people were trying to get rich of others. Before anyone comes at me with the
