Re: [meteorite-list] Weird pic...Apollo 14
Hi all - When dealing with the man did not walk on the Moon nuts (and for these folks man did not walk on the Moon because either 1) they did not see the reamins of another civilization there, or 2) NASA was hiding the real astronauts, who did see the remains, by staging fake landings Ahem,as I was saying... When dealing with the man did not walk on the Moon nuts, I simply tell them that NASA lied to them about the flim used, and that it was really recon film which was loaded in the astronauts cameras. These folks usually readliy accept that NASA lied to them, and given the premise the consequence follows: man walked on the Moon. If questioned, I tell them to take a roll of kodachrome or ektachrome, put it in the referigerator, then put it in an oven, and see how it works. Then imagine doing it in a vacuum. If they're really stubborn, I ask them if they remember Kodak running any ads claiming that now you could buy the same film used on the Moon, like Tang. They don't, and end of arguement. good hunting, Ed --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sterling, Your explanation about the Apollo 14 photograph is correct. During the Apollo 14 mission I was the Mission Science Advisor for the A-14 mission in the Lunar Receiving Laboratory. I participated in the Apollo 14 crew debriefings with Alan Sheppard, Ed Mitchell and Stuart Rousa along with the backup crew of Gene Cernan and Joe Engle. During the debriefs, all of the mission photographs were examined and detailed discussions were held with the crew (across a quarantine barrier window) regarding their surface activities and what was displayed in the images. We discussed the particular photograph of the ALSEP station with the blue streak above the horizon. The crew commented that it was difficult to not get sun reflections in the camera. In fact, there were additional images from the surface photographs which had smaller streaks above the horizon. The debriefings were an amazing experience, expecially when Ed Mitchell and Al Sheppard began pulling lunar rocks from a large white bag. Lunar samples 14301 thru 14321 were loosely stowed inside the bag. The samples were laid out on a table which had been covered with aluminum foil. Sample 14321 was the size of a soccer ball and the largest lunar sample returned from the mission. It was given the name Big Bertha. Hope these comments help clarify the situation with the streaks in the photograph. Everett Gibson __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Weird pic...Apollo 14
. So, who's working on vacuum- indifferent, high-load machine lubricants of every type and function, with a 500-600 degree working range? Raise your hands... anybody? How about seals? Gaskets? Anybody? Or do we expect them to magically appear when we need them? (Bitch, bitch, bitch...) Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: E.P. Grondine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:01 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Weird pic...Apollo 14 Hi all - When dealing with the man did not walk on the Moon nuts (and for these folks man did not walk on the Moon because either 1) they did not see the reamins of another civilization there, or 2) NASA was hiding the real astronauts, who did see the remains, by staging fake landings Ahem,as I was saying... When dealing with the man did not walk on the Moon nuts, I simply tell them that NASA lied to them about the flim used, and that it was really recon film which was loaded in the astronauts cameras. These folks usually readliy accept that NASA lied to them, and given the premise the consequence follows: man walked on the Moon. If questioned, I tell them to take a roll of kodachrome or ektachrome, put it in the referigerator, then put it in an oven, and see how it works. Then imagine doing it in a vacuum. If they're really stubborn, I ask them if they remember Kodak running any ads claiming that now you could buy the same film used on the Moon, like Tang. They don't, and end of arguement. good hunting, Ed __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Weird pic...Apollo 14
Sterling, Your explanation about the Apollo 14 photograph is correct. During the Apollo 14 mission I was the Mission Science Advisor for the A-14 mission in the Lunar Receiving Laboratory. I participated in the Apollo 14 crew debriefings with Alan Sheppard, Ed Mitchell and Stuart Rousa along with the backup crew of Gene Cernan and Joe Engle. During the debriefs, all of the mission photographs were examined and detailed discussions were held with the crew (across a quarantine barrier window) regarding their surface activities and what was displayed in the images. We discussed the particular photograph of the ALSEP station with the blue streak above the horizon. The crew commented that it was difficult to not get sun reflections in the camera. In fact, there were additional images from the surface photographs which had smaller streaks above the horizon. The debriefings were an amazing experience, expecially when Ed Mitchell and Al Sheppard began pulling lunar rocks from a large white bag. Lunar samples 14301 thru 14321 were loosely stowed inside the bag. The samples were laid out on a table which had been covered with aluminum foil. Sample 14321 was the size of a soccer ball and the largest lunar sample returned from the mission. It was given the name Big Bertha. Hope these comments help clarify the situation with the streaks in the photograph. Everett Gibson __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Weird pic...Apollo 14
Kevin, I assume you are referring to the blue streaks in the sky. I suspect those are reflections from the studio lights against the false back-drop... BIG GRIN Other than that guess, I'm stumped as well. Ed - Original Message - From: kevin decker To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 7:03 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Weird pic...Apollo 14 Hello,Anybody here care to help me figure out what's in this Photo in the Apollo 14 Archives?..I'm stumped..:http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a14/AS14-67-9384HR.jpg Thanks..Kevin...:) -- Get FREE Web site and company branded e-mail from Microsoft Office Live -- __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Weird pic...Apollo 14
Hi, If you take a look at the thumbnails page for magazine 67: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a14/Ap14_Mag67.jpg you will see everything is blue-lit. These guys are not professional photographers and the Moon is a hard place to shoot pictures of. In photo 9384, the Sun is just outside the frame. Look at 9382, it's all sun flare (also 9367, 9368, 9387, 9388, equally wasted). They tried shooting into the Sun (with lousy results); they tried shooting with the Sun behind them and got black shadows that stretched for yards and yards (low Sun angle). I now disagree with the official film defect explanation; the blue streaks in the sky are an internal reflection from the Sun which is just above and to the right of camera. The blue light (not a glow or halo) you note is nothing but the blue sunlight to be seen in every frame of that magazine. Remember, this is just an Earthly (and expensive) film camera of the 1960's, and the film used is just high grade 120 film just like you could buy for your camera, no CCD's, no narrowband filters, no software -- it's just a case of We're going to the Moon; grab the camera! The color temperature of the film used is not high enough for the raw sunlight of the Moon. I would suggest a Wratten 81 series filter is needed. I would recommend a strong 81 series filter, 81D or even the 81EF, the so-called mountain filter. Ever gone up high in the mountains, shot film, and when you got the photos back, everything was too blue? It's the film recording the UV light that you can't see; an 81EF will fix that. Imagine there's much more UV light on the Moon than on the Earth? (Well, yeah...) In photo 67-9384, they got a decent shot by shooting a scene that was mostly in shadow with increased exposure time (notice how dark the regolith is compared to the other shots). The longer exposure time is likely what allowed that faint internal reflection to be recorded. This sort of thing happens with film cameras all the time. You'll notice that it isn't a streak; it's two sets of multiple streaks, one brighter and one fainter. The fainter one is identical to the brighter one (at least in the parts we can make out) and at a slightly different angle. This is characteristic of internal reflections in a multi-element lens, with each element showing the reflection, although each element (because of differing refractivity) positions it differently. And lastly, the streaks are exactly one hue of blue, in varying intensity but all the same color, formed out of one narrow refracted hue, an optical defect, not an object. And it's exactly where a reflection would be cast by the low Sun. If we take the other tack, and say the blue streaks are real, we have the problem that they are diffuse. The camera is in focus out to infinity, so they would have to be diffuse object, more like a vapor or gasses, not a sharply defined dense physical object. If they were vapor reflecting sunlight they would have a bright spot or area since sunlight in a vacuum is not dispersed in all directions like it is inside an atmosphere; they don't have a specular refection, in other words. If it is a vapor, even one emitted by a moving object, it would have expanded in every direction instantly in a vacuum, regardless of motion or the lack of it. No way to form a streak or to hold it together. You may recall seeing the video of the ascent stage of the LM taking off, engines blazing. On Earth, in an atmosphere, the firing of a hypergolic fuel rocket would produce huge bright billowing clouds of exhaust. In the video, there is nothing to be seen, no light, no smoke, just an invisible rush of gas in every direction, like a unseen wind. Nothing is visible, except small objects on the ground blowing away. At any rate, I really don't think you got a hot interplanetary mystery here. Keep looking, though, and let me know if you discover signs of a town of cryoarthropods on the banks of a methane river on Titan. Just kidding about those cryoarthropods... mostly. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: kevin decker To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 6:03 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Weird pic...Apollo 14 Hello,Anybody here care to help me figure out what's in this Photo in the Apollo 14 Archives?..I'm stumped..: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a14/AS14-67-9384HR.jpg Thanks..Kevin...:) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Weird pic...Apollo 14
Sterling,Thanks!..It seems to be the most Plausible explanation yet..And I've seen a few in a Forum I posted it in.And thanks to the other list members as well!..I was wondering about the blue light..your explanation makes the most sense.Are the Fiducials a part of the Film?..or lense? In other pics in the magazine there are other strange things..some look like comets,some like a dot..etc...I started thinking film degradation.,,anyways thanks!..And Happy Holidays Everyone!!!...Best.Kevin W.Decker. From:"Sterling K. Webb" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:"kevin decker" [EMAIL PROTECTED],Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSubject:Re: [meteorite-list] Weird pic...Apollo 14Date:Sat, 23 Dec 2006 18:11:06 -0600Hi,If you take a look at the thumbnails page formagazine 67:http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a14/Ap14_Mag67.jpgyou will see everything is blue-lit. These guysare not professional photographers and theMoon is a hard place to shoot pictures of. Inphoto 9384, the Sun is just outside the frame.Look at 9382, it's all sun flare (also 9367, 9368,9387, 9388, equally wasted). They tried shootinginto the Sun (with lousy results); they triedshooting with the Sun behind them and gotblack shadows that stretched for yards andyards (low Sun angle).I now disagree with the "official" film defectexplanation; the blue streaks in the sky are aninternal reflection from the Sun which is justabove and to the right of camera. The "bluelight" (not a glow or halo) you note is nothingbut the "blue sunlight" to be seen in everyframe of that magazine.Remember, this is just an Earthly (andexpensive) film camera of the 1960's, and thefilm used is just high grade 120 film just likeyou could buy for your camera, no CCD's,no narrowband filters, no software -- it's justa case of "We're going to the Moon; grabthe camera!"The color temperature of the film used isnot high enough for the raw sunlight of theMoon. I would suggest a Wratten 81 seriesfilter is needed. I would recommend a strong81 series filter, 81D or even the 81EF, theso-called "mountain filter." Ever gone up highin the mountains, shot film, and when you gotthe photos back, everything was too blue? It'sthe film recording the UV light that you can'tsee; an 81EF will fix that. Imagine there'smuch more UV light on the Moon than onthe Earth? (Well, yeah...)In photo 67-9384, they got a decent shot byshooting a scene that was mostly in shadowwith increased exposure time (notice howdark the regolith is compared to the othershots). The longer exposure time is likelywhat allowed that faint internal reflection tobe recorded. This sort of thing happens withfilm cameras all the time.You'll notice that it isn't "a" streak; it's twosets of multiple streaks, one brighter and onefainter. The fainter one is identical to the brighterone (at least in the parts we can make out) andat a slightly different angle. This is characteristicof internal reflections in a multi-element lens,with each element showing the reflection, althougheach element (because of differing refractivity)positions it differently.And lastly, the streaks are exactly one hueof blue, in varying intensity but all the samecolor, formed out of one narrow refractedhue, an optical defect, not an object. And it'sexactly where a reflection would be cast bythe low Sun.If we take the other tack, and say the bluestreaks are real, we have the problem that theyare diffuse. The camera is in focus out to infinity,so they would have to be diffuse object, morelike a vapor or gasses, not a sharply defineddense physical object.If they were vapor reflecting sunlightthey would have a bright spot or area sincesunlight in a vacuum is not dispersed in alldirections like it is inside an atmosphere; theydon't have a specular refection, in other words.If it is a vapor, even one emitted by a movingobject, it would have expanded in every directioninstantly in a vacuum, regardless of motion or thelack of it. No way to form a "streak" or to holdit together.You may recall seeing the video of the ascentstage of the LM taking off, engines blazing. OnEarth, in an atmosphere, the firing of a hypergolicfuel rocket would produce huge bright billowingclouds of exhaust. In the video, there is nothingto be seen, no light, no smoke, just an invisiblerush of gas in every direction, like a unseen wind.Nothing is visible, except small objects on theground blowing away.At any rate, I really don't think you got a hotinterplanetary mystery here. Keep looking, though,and let me know if you discover signs of a town ofcryoarthropods on the banks of a methane riveron Titan.Just kidding about those cryoarthropods... mostly.Sterling K. Webb-- Original Message - From: kevin deckerTo: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSent: Friday, December 22, 2006 6:03 PMSubject: [meteorite-list] Weird pic...Apollo 14Hello,Anybody here care to help me figure out what's in this Photo in the Apollo 14 Archives?..I'm stumped..:
Re: [meteorite-list] Weird pic...Apollo 14
What a great image. It's a masterpiece. I love the styrofoam packing on the lower right hand side. Bill -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 19:03:04 -0500To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSubject: [meteorite-list] Weird pic...Apollo 14 Hello,Anybody here care to help me figure out what's in this Photo in the Apollo 14 Archives?..I'm stumped..:http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a14/AS14-67-9384HR.jpg Thanks..Kevin...:) Get FREE Web site and company branded e-mail from Microsoft Office Live __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Weird pic...Apollo 14?
Hi, Kevin, List, Assuming you're talking about the blue streaks in the sky that are like UFO contrails, the note in the Image Library says of AS14-67-9384 (OF300): 117:25:32 View to the northeast of the Central Station and, at the left, the Passive Seismometer experiment. The blue streak at the upper left is undoubtedly a film defect. The Cone ridge is in the distance. When I saw the blue contrail, I thought it might even be an internal reflection in the lens (even though Hassy fans would be horrified at the suggestion), from the shiny pole on the foreground, perhaps. But they're probably right about it being a film defect. My guess is that it would be caused by a crease in the emulsion and carrier at those (very low) temperatures. The black area in the print is, of course, clear in the negative, so any defect would show up. Either that, or the pilots of the 8th Lunar UFO squadron were so careless as to engage their anti-proton afterburners within the sight of the Earthlings. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: kevin decker To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 6:03 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Weird pic...Apollo 14 Hello,Anybody here care to help me figure out what's in this Photo in the Apollo 14 Archives?..I'm stumped..:http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a14/AS14-67-9384HR.jpg Thanks..Kevin...:) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Weird pic...Apollo 14
I believe that this is a seismometer package--pretty sure by the grid in the background. The silver package on the left was a plutonium based(?) thermocouple powersupply(complete with an insulating blanket). I believe I read that the experiment is still transmitting. The streak ...well any Star Trek Fan( aka Trekie) knows that signature-- it is the Enterprise D jumping into Warp. Actually looks like a emulsion flaw else a light leak pre developing/processing. Really not sure except it wasn't in the original scene. Hummm isn't that a lunar meteorite in the foreground? Nagh...just a common moon rock...never mind. Elton __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Weird pic...Apollo 14
Elton,List,It says that the Large Package is the Central Station,And the Silver hat shaped object is the Passive Seisometer experiment.What gets me is..there seems to be a blue glow on half of the passive seisometer approximate with the blue streaks in the moonsky.that tells me..it's really there?..Quote from the site."117:25:32 veiw to the northeast of the central station and,at the left,the passive seismometer experiment.the blue streak at the upper left is undoubtebly a film defect.the cone ridge is in the distance." From:Mr EMan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:kevin decker [EMAIL PROTECTED], Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSubject:Re: [meteorite-list] Weird pic...Apollo 14Date:Fri, 22 Dec 2006 18:48:49 -0800 (PST)I believe that this is a seismometer package--prettysure by the grid in the background. The silver packageon the left was a plutonium based(?) thermocouplepowersupply(complete with an insulating blanket).Ibelieve I read that the experiment is stilltransmitting.The streak ...well any Star Trek Fan( aka Trekie)knows that signature--it is the Enterprise D jumpinginto Warp.Actually looks like a emulsion flaw else alight leak pre developing/processing.Really not sureexcept it wasn't in the original scene.Hummm isn't that a lunar meteorite in the foreground?Nagh...just a common moon rock...never mind.Elton Get FREE Web site and company branded e-mail from Microsoft Office Live __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Weird pic...Apollo 14
I think the photo reveals the following: - Lower Right = worlds largest (or at least the moon's largest) pop corn popper - Mid Left = Lunar port-a-potty - moon horizon streaks = Festiclause dashing off at warp speed Best wishes, Michael on 12/22/06 6:48 PM, Mr EMan at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe that this is a seismometer package--pretty sure by the grid in the background. The silver package on the left was a plutonium based(?) thermocouple powersupply(complete with an insulating blanket). I believe I read that the experiment is still transmitting. The streak ...well any Star Trek Fan( aka Trekie) knows that signature-- it is the Enterprise D jumping into Warp. Actually looks like a emulsion flaw else a light leak pre developing/processing. Really not sure except it wasn't in the original scene. Hummm isn't that a lunar meteorite in the foreground? Nagh...just a common moon rock...never mind. Elton __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- It is difficult to get a man to understand something if his salary depends on him not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair -- What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It is what we know for sure that just ain't so. - Josh Billings (but oft credited to Mark Twain) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
