[uf-discuss] rel=homepage?
I was wondering whether there was a link rel value or similar already defined for pointing from e.g. a blog archive post to the blog main page. The use case I have is just that - I can grab an archived page, express the data in the RDF model, but without some reference being available from the archive to the homepage a lot of potentially useful info is unavailable. e.g. foaf:weblog is inverse-functional, so having the blog homepage means you can identify the person behind the archived post. Cheers, Danny. -- http://dannyayers.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] rel=homepage?
On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 11:02:08 +0100, Danny Ayers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was wondering whether there was a link rel value or similar already defined for pointing from e.g. a blog archive post to the blog main page. rel=home is defined in HTML ( http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/types.html#type-links ). Opera translates that into a Home button on the link bar, and I'm sure Firefox has similar behaviour. Close enough for me. :o) - Andreas -- URL: http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] rel=homepage?
Hello, On 12/6/05, Danny Ayers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was wondering whether there was a link rel value or similar already defined for pointing from e.g. a blog archive post to the blog main page. I'd say probably rel-author. (It's what I used on my blog.) Works with the idea of URL's being proxies for people. The use case I have is just that - I can grab an archived page, express the data in the RDF model, but without some reference being available from the archive to the homepage a lot of potentially useful info is unavailable. Yeah, I came to similar issues when dealing with trust metrics. I also use rev-author to say that I wrote that (... if that helps). That way you get these pages (semantically) pointing to each other. See ya e.g. foaf:weblog is inverse-functional, so having the blog homepage means you can identify the person behind the archived post. Cheers, Danny. -- http://dannyayers.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. charles @ reptile.ca supercanadian @ gmail.com developer weblog: http://ChangeLog.ca/ ___ Never forget where you came from ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] rel=homepage?
On 12/6/05, Andreas Haugstrup [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 11:02:08 +0100, Danny Ayers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was wondering whether there was a link rel value or similar already defined for pointing from e.g. a blog archive post to the blog main page. rel=home is defined in HTML ( http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/types.html#type-links ). Sorry, I can't find home anywhere on that page - do you have a more direct link..? Cheers, Danny. -- http://dannyayers.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] rel=homepage?
On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 12:53:33 +0100, Danny Ayers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/6/05, Andreas Haugstrup [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 11:02:08 +0100, Danny Ayers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was wondering whether there was a link rel value or similar already defined for pointing from e.g. a blog archive post to the blog main page. rel=home is defined in HTML ( http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/types.html#type-links ). Sorry, I can't find home anywhere on that page - do you have a more direct link..? Sorry, that was a typo. rel=start gets shown as a home button in the browser. - Andreas -- URL: http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hAtom draft
Ryan King wrote: On Dec 4, 2005, at 9:15 AM, David Janes -- BlogMatrix wrote: Ryan King wrote: 4. Why do we prefer h# over class=title for entry titles? See my earlier note. I'd really appreciate if you or Tantek got back to me here: my understanding is that we'd always prefer appropriate XHTML constructs. Yes, I'd say we should prefer the appropriate html construct. In this particular case, though, I'm afraid using h# is a bit brittle- this is coming from helping triage support requests coming into Technorati about us not indexing their blog properly. For this particular element I would prefer: 1. an explicit classname (most people are using a classname already, no?) 2. fallback to h# I think the explicit declaration should be preferred, but this is just a suggestion. I know that other xhtml-syndication efforts have used h# for entry titles, but I'm not sure of their success. Anyone with experience here, please speak up. I'm going to go with your suggestion. I've actually been doing lots of playing with parsing Microformats using Python, DOMs, and so forth and I'm getting a better sense of what practically works. 5. Entry Permalinks MUST be absolute URIs. Why? We have well established rules for relative urls. I could lower this to SHOULD; feedback would be appreciated. I think requiring absolute URIs is a bit too high a hurdle, not not quite neccessary. I'm going to change this to SHOULD. There, done. However, what I'm trying to accomplish is to let rel-bookmark provide byte comparable strings for providing the best location for this resource. Like I said, the rules for transforming relative URIs to absolute ones are pretty well established, so any consumer should be able to take care of this for themselves. I think this is just a case where we need to optimize for the publisher over the consumer. I was reading a blog post yesterday about how much misery atom:base and relative URIs are causing. Can't find it, ah well. The problem with relative URIs is that readers at http://instapundit.com; and at http://www.instapundit.com; will come up with two different sets of Entry Permalinks that are actually representing the same resources. This even gets uglier with LiveJournal. I do recognize this may be an attempt at some mild social engineering on my part. FWIW, there has been some (offline and on-) discussion about a rel-canonical microformat. Maybe hAtom should defer this problem (*it is* bigger than just atom/blogs). Fair enough. Maybe it'll be a role model. 6. quote: there can be at most 1 Entry in an XHTML document without an Entry Permalink; the Entry Permalink of this Entry is the URI of the page This rule is needed for media pages (i.e. a news article on cnn.com). There is some ugliness of with this because the URI could be non-canonical. I'm not sure I follow this and don't see anything on the brainstorming page about it. It's in the blog-post-examples [1]. I'd like to make in practical for organizations such as CNN to markup pages such as [2] in hAtom without requiring them rewriting the way they do pages. So the use-case is a document with one entry? Is this really worth making a general rule about? ... It's all great -- bring it on. I'm back in fighting shape :-) Great. A few more changes have gone in. I've documented a list [1] for people tracking the proposal. I've also started collecting practical advice on templates, CSS and so forth [2]. Contributions from WP people and so forth would be appreciated. -ryan Regards, etc... David http://www.blogmatrix.com [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom#Recent_Changes [2] http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom#Hints_and_Tips ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] rel=homepage?
On 12/6/05, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, On 12/6/05, Danny Ayers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was wondering whether there was a link rel value or similar already defined for pointing from e.g. a blog archive post to the blog main page. I'd say probably rel-author. (It's what I used on my blog.) Works with the idea of URL's being proxies for people. The problem there for me is that I will also be using the homepage URI to refer to the homepage. http://dannyayers.com dc:title Raw . - but I don't have the title Raw. Unambiguous reference to me through the page URI is still possible: _:me foaf:weblog http://dannyayers.com . because foaf:weblog is defined as being inverse-functional, _:someone foaf:weblog http://dannyayers.com . implies _:someone owl:sameAs _:me . Cheers, Danny. -- http://dannyayers.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] rel=homepage?
On 12/6/05, Andreas Haugstrup [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, that was a typo. rel=start gets shown as a home button in the browser. Thanks - got it. [[ Start Refers to the first document in a collection of documents. This link type tells search engines which document is considered by the author to be the starting point of the collection. ]] Hmm, I'm not sure, might there not be a conflict in the blog archive scenario - archived post #1 being rel=start..? Cheers, Danny. -- http://dannyayers.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] µF Press / Starter Pack
Hi all. There's been a little discussion around a Press / Starter Pack for µF's. As Ryan King puts it, 'by covering the journalist use-case, we will also hopefully make µf's more accessible to all [non | less]-technical people'. The aim is to provide an easier way for non/less technical people discover µf's more easily along the lines of the Technorati Press Kit [1]. It would be adjusted to meet a generic less-technical person use-case and supplemental to About µf's [2], wiki Introduction [3], wiki FAQ [4], wiki press coverage [5] and presentations page [6]. The press / starter pack might include the following: - µF's 'About' simplified introduction as to *what* µf's are, *why* they are being created / are useful and *how* they can be used (currently). Could also include a list of links to: * Presentations * 'history of µF's * Graphics for use by authors / press + buttons [7] * Historical Press on µF's' * Links external blog posts around µF's for alternative explanations of µf's and sound-bites. * µF's Discuss list access - Basic FAQ along similar lines to the Technorati basic FAQ [8]. Could also contain a list of: * Implementations / Examples in The Wild wiki sections * Code examples and creators [9] * External helper articles (like the wiki Introduction) * Graphics / buttons - Press contact [ as a hCard - X2V - vCard of course :) ] I see a Starter Pack functioning as a simplified introduction and foundation. It might be an addition to either to the Introduction page or the Press page, or a wiki page on it's own. A call to action from the About page to enable journalists or anyone else to be eased in to µF's prior to diving in to the technical information might be useful. As someone who is new to µF's and having just implemented my first µF as an interface designer rather than a developer, this would of been of great benefit to me when first trying to answer my own questions regarding µF's. Others who I've introduced to µF's have asked almost identical questions that this proposal tries to answer in a more accessible form. All suggestions and comments will be much appreciated. Thanks, Jon Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] [1] http://technorati.com/press/#kit [2] http://microformats.org/about/ [3] http://microformats.org/wiki/introduction [4] http://microformats.org/wiki/faq [5] http://microformats.org/wiki/press [6] http://microformats.org/wiki/presentations [7] http://microformats.org/wiki/buttons [8] http://technorati.com/help/faq.html [9] http://microformats.org/code/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] rel=homepage?
Danny Ayers wrote: On 12/6/05, Andreas Haugstrup [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, that was a typo. rel=start gets shown as a home button in the browser. Thanks - got it. [[ Start Refers to the first document in a collection of documents. This link type tells search engines which document is considered by the author to be the starting point of the collection. ]] Hmm, I'm not sure, might there not be a conflict in the blog archive scenario - archived post #1 being rel=start..? Yes, exactly. After reading through the last couple of posts, I would think that rel=home has to be something different. Regards, etc... ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] rel=homepage?
On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:11:27 +0100, David Janes -- BlogMatrix [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Danny Ayers wrote: On 12/6/05, Andreas Haugstrup [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, that was a typo. rel=start gets shown as a home button in the browser. Thanks - got it. [[ Start Refers to the first document in a collection of documents. This link type tells search engines which document is considered by the author to be the starting point of the collection. ]] Hmm, I'm not sure, might there not be a conflict in the blog archive scenario - archived post #1 being rel=start..? Yes, exactly. After reading through the last couple of posts, I would think that rel=home has to be something different. A quick test reveals that Opera creates the home button for rel=home as well. I can't for the life of me figure out how to turn on this feature in Firefox (has it been removed?). Maybe rel=home is to be preferred because it doesn't interfere with rel=start and because the browser (Opera at least) actually does useful stuff with it. - Andreas -- URL: http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] rel=homepage?
On 12/6/05, Andreas Haugstrup [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:11:27 +0100, David Janes -- BlogMatrix[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Danny Ayers wrote: On 12/6/05, Andreas Haugstrup [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, that was a typo. rel=start gets shown as a home button in the browser. Thanks - got it. [[ Start Refers to the first document in a collection of documents. This link type tells search engines which document is considered by the author to be the starting point of the collection. ]]Hmm, I'm not sure, might there not be a conflict in the blog archive scenario - archived post #1 being rel=start..? Yes, exactly. After reading through the last couple of posts, I would think that rel=home has to be something different.A quick test reveals that Opera creates the home button for rel=home as well. I can't for the life of me figure out how to turn on this featurein Firefox (has it been removed?). Maybe rel=home is to be preferredbecause it doesn't interfere with rel=start and because the browser (Opera at least) actually does useful stuff with it.Mark Pilgrim suggests rel=home: http://diveintoaccessibility.org/day_9_providing_additional_navigation_aids.html The site navigation toolbar was in the full Mozilla suite. I don't think it made it into Firefox, although I wouldn't be surprised if there's an extension for it. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hAtom draft
David, Just in case people didn't say this enough: this hAtom thing is tremendous. I am working on implementing it at a client's site and I am enjoying the quality of the spec and the level of thought that went into it. Now, try to fit that head into a doorway :) :DG ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] µF Press / Starter Pack
On the topic of getting started with Microformats, Drew McLellan, the creator of '24 ways', released a great introduction on hCard format. http://24ways.org/advent/practical-microformats-with-hcard Cheers, Jake ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hAtom draft
Thanks Dimitri, I aim to please. I hope to have an interesting webservice to show off before the end of the week relating to uFs also. Regards, etc... David Dimitri Glazkov wrote: David, Just in case people didn't say this enough: this hAtom thing is tremendous. I am working on implementing it at a client's site and I am enjoying the quality of the spec and the level of thought that went into it. Now, try to fit that head into a doorway :) :DG ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hReview Question/Statement
Hello, On 12/6/05, David Janes -- BlogMatrix [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the rule for associating rating with best? I'm looking at this example [1] from the Wiki: ul class=categories lia href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food; rel=tag Food: span class=rating18/span/span class=best30/span/a;/li lia href=http://flickr.com/photos/tags/Ambience; rel=tag Ambience: span class=rating19/span/span class=best30/span/a;/li lia href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service; rel=tag Service: span class=rating15/span/span class=best30/span/a;/li lia href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price; rel=tag Price: abbr class=rating title=2$$/abbr.../a/li /ul and the implied rule (if it follows) seems rather loosey goosey: if it's under the same parent element, associate them?. For example, there's clear way to write: p On Fred's span class=best4/a ICBM scale, I give this a span class=rating2/a. /p Would it not be better to explicitly place them within a named parent container (say rated)? Then one no longer needs to make sure everything is grouped in some explicit way: p class=rated I rate all my Chilis on a span class=best4/span ICBM scale. The best I ever had was Texas Joe's Twister, which render large parts of the midwest uninhabitable later that night and earned a span class=rating4/span from me. /p I'd say yes. (Unless you want to make them share some unique class name that binds them together.) See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. charles @ reptile.ca supercanadian @ gmail.com developer weblog: http://ChangeLog.ca/ ___ Never forget where you came from ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] rel=homepage?
Thanks guys, sounds like rel=home is the way to go. -- http://dannyayers.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Re: Show Microformat Brainstorming
Hello, On 12/6/05, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, [...] So, the orthogonal concepts here seem like: * there's the concept of a preview image. (maybe thumbnail would be a better name.) * there's the concept of a show * there's the concept of a teaser * If it is a teaser there is a Pay to View link * show can divided up into multiple contiguous files * teaser can be made up of multiple files * alternatives of the same media There's some stuff related to this on the wiki: http://microformats.org/wiki/alternates-examples http://microformats.org/wiki/alternates-brainstorming To me,, I get the impression that the favorite for speciying a set of alternate links to the same thing is something like: ul class=alternates lia href=clip.mpegMPEG/a/li lia href=clip.ogmOGG/a/li lia href=clip.aviAVI/a/li /ul Now, from the point of view of reusing existing HTML elements that already have the proper semantics, I agree that at first that this does seem like a good idea. However, it seems to have some problems: #1: You can't have loosely coupled alternatives. #2: Without some pretty fancy CSS styling, this is really going to mess up people's webpages. (This will probably be a show stopper for some people.) For those 2 reasons, I'm more inclined to go with something like: span class=alternates a class=alternate href=clip.mpegMPEG/a a class=alternate href=clip.ogmOGG/a a class=alternate href=clip.aviAVI/a /span That way you could do stuff like: p To help software handle RSS properly you should use RSS Disposition Hinting (span class=alternatesa href=http://advogato.org/article/852.html; title=RSS Disposition Hinting ProposalAdvogato version/a, a href=http://changelog.ca/log/2005/08/21/rss-disposition-hinting-proposal; title=RSS Disposition Hinting ProposalChangeLog.ca version/a/span). /p If you wanted to be lazy, you could even do the following: p class=alternates To help software handle RSS properly you should use RSS Disposition Hinting (a href=http://advogato.org/article/852.html; title=RSS Disposition Hinting ProposalAdvogato version/a, a href=http://changelog.ca/log/2005/08/21/rss-disposition-hinting-proposal; title=RSS Disposition Hinting ProposalChangeLog.ca version/a). /p (Don't know what people think of the class names I'm using. They may or may not be too generic.) * you can combine all these Did I miss anything? [...] See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. charles @ reptile.ca supercanadian @ gmail.com developer weblog: http://ChangeLog.ca/ ___ Never forget where you came from ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Re: Show Microformat Brainstorming
Hello, On 12/6/05, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] So, the orthogonal concepts here seem like: * there's the concept of a preview image. (maybe thumbnail would be a better name.) * there's the concept of a show * there's the concept of a teaser * If it is a teaser there is a Pay to View link * show can divided up into multiple contiguous files * teaser can be made up of multiple files * alternatives of the same media * you can combine all these (Some more things to add.) * there's the concept of a clip * there's the concept of the media file. (What the a tag's href points to) Did I miss anything? [...] See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. charles @ reptile.ca supercanadian @ gmail.com developer weblog: http://ChangeLog.ca/ ___ Never forget where you came from ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] XSLT for converting from OPML to XBEL and XOXO
fyi, blog post from Uche Ogbuji - http://copia.ogbuji.net/blog/2005-12-05/XSLT_for_c note re. XOXO: I really couldn't figure out any common conventions for Web feeds, seems he went down the path earlier: http://copia.ogbuji.net/blog/2005-11-15/I_must_be_ Cheers, Danny. -- http://dannyayers.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hAtom draft
On Dec 6, 2005, at 3:59 AM, David Janes -- BlogMatrix wrote: However, what I'm trying to accomplish is to let rel-bookmark provide byte comparable strings for providing the best location for this resource. Like I said, the rules for transforming relative URIs to absolute ones are pretty well established, so any consumer should be able to take care of this for themselves. I think this is just a case where we need to optimize for the publisher over the consumer. I was reading a blog post yesterday about how much misery atom:base and relative URIs are causing. Can't find it, ah well. Tantek can tell you about about atom:base problems. :D Anyway, for better or worse, we have relative URIs in [X]HTML. The problem of resolving them is bigger than hatom. -ryan -- Ryan King [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Re: Show Microformat Brainstorming
Hello, On 12/6/05, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, On 12/6/05, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] So, the orthogonal concepts here seem like: * there's the concept of a preview image. (maybe thumbnail would be a better name.) * there's the concept of a show * there's the concept of a teaser * If it is a teaser there is a Pay to View link * show can divided up into multiple contiguous files * teaser can be made up of multiple files * alternatives of the same media * you can combine all these (Some more things to add.) * there's the concept of a clip * there's the concept of the media file. (What the a tag's href points to) This is probably the foundation of it all -- the media file. So, to mark something as being media, you could do something like: a class=media href=clip.mpegwatch this/a However, if you want to attach metadata to the media file (beyond what the a tag lets you do) then you might do something like the following: span class=media img class=preview src=preview.png / a class=reference href=clip.mpegMPEG/a div class=descriptiondescription goes here/div a href=texttext version goes here... useful to the deaf and for searching and indexing/a /span Note, I'm NOT trying to enumerate all the metadata that can be associated with a media. There's already been some work on this here: http://microformats.org/wiki/video-metadata-model http://microformats.org/wiki/media-metadata-examples Also, I'm not trying to name these class names either. Just thinking out loud. So, going back to the simple example again, it would be better to have it as: a class=media reference href=clip.mpegwatch this/a It's just a compact version of and the simplest version of the other form. And going through all those examples I listed before (Note, in the end, more microformats are needed for this, but for right now, I'm just apply the media stuff to it.) Here's the first one that's just a bit more complex (and very very common): a class=media reference href=clip.mpegimg class=preview src=preview.png //a The next one is basically the same: a class=media reference href=teaser.mpegimg class=preview src=preview.png //a a href=http://example.com/go;Pay to View/a Note, the Pay to View part of it didn't even get affected by this microformat. (Although in the final show microformat it needs to. It needs to get marked. And we need to bind all this together.) For the third one: a class=media reference href=clip-1.mpgimg class=preview src=preview-1.png //a a class=media reference href=clip-2.mpgimg class=preview src=preview-2.png //a a class=media reference href=clip-3.mpgimg class=preview src=preview-3.png //a Note, there's just 3 completely separate media's here. (Although in the final show microformat they need to be bound together. And it needs to tell you that there is an order to these. And it needs to tell you that together they make up a show.) For the forth one, it's alot like the last one: a class=media reference href=clip-blue.mpgimg class=preview src=preview-blue.png //a a class=media reference href=clip-red.mpgimg class=preview src=preview-red.png //a a class=media reference href=clip-green.mpgimg class=preview src=preview-green.png //a a href=http://example.com/go;Pay to View/a Again, the Pay to View link didn't even get addressed. (Although in the final show microformat it needs to. And we need to bind this all together.) And for the fifth and final use case I listed before, it becomes: img src=preview.png / a class=media reference href=clip.mpgMPEG/a a class=media reference href=clip.ogmOgg/a a class=media reference href=clip.aviAVI/a Note that in this case the preview isn't bound to any particular media and isn't even marked as being such. (In the final show microformat it needs to be, but we also need something to contain all this in to bind it all together.) The rest of the Show Microformat would be built on top of this. Comments? See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. charles @ reptile.ca supercanadian @ gmail.com developer weblog: http://ChangeLog.ca/ ___ Never forget where you came from ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hReview Question/Statement
On Dec 6, 2005, at 7:36 AM, David Janes -- BlogMatrix wrote: What's the rule for associating rating with best? I'm looking at this example [1] from the Wiki: ul class=categories lia href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food; rel=tag Food: span class=rating18/span/span class=best30/ span/a;/li lia href=http://flickr.com/photos/tags/Ambience; rel=tag Ambience: span class=rating19/span/span class=best30/ span/a;/li lia href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service; rel=tag Service: span class=rating15/span/span class=best30/ span/a;/li lia href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price; rel=tag Price: abbr class=rating title=2$$/abbr.../a/li /ul and the implied rule (if it follows) seems rather loosey goosey: if it's under the same parent element, associate them?. For example, there's clear way to write: p On Fred's span class=best4/a ICBM scale, I give this a span class=rating2/a. /p This example is qualitatively different than the above. The above is giving ratings for specific categories (aka, tags). -ryan -- Ryan King [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] rel=homepage?
On Dec 6, 2005, at 10:21 AM, Danny Ayers wrote: Thanks guys, sounds like rel=home is the way to go. Yeah, it sounds like it has precedent. Does anyone want to work on documenting this? -ryan -- Ryan King [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Re: Show Microformat Brainstorming
Hello, Sorry, just a correction. On 12/6/05, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, On 12/6/05, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, On 12/6/05, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] So, the orthogonal concepts here seem like: * there's the concept of a preview image. (maybe thumbnail would be a better name.) * there's the concept of a show * there's the concept of a teaser * If it is a teaser there is a Pay to View link * show can divided up into multiple contiguous files * teaser can be made up of multiple files * alternatives of the same media * you can combine all these (Some more things to add.) * there's the concept of a clip * there's the concept of the media file. (What the a tag's href points to) This is probably the foundation of it all -- the media file. So, to mark something as being media, you could do something like: a class=media href=clip.mpegwatch this/a However, if you want to attach metadata to the media file (beyond what the a tag lets you do) then you might do something like the following: span class=media img class=preview src=preview.png / a class=reference href=clip.mpegMPEG/a div class=descriptiondescription goes here/div a href=texttext version goes here... useful to the deaf and for searching and indexing/a /span That part that says: a href=texttext version goes here... useful to the deaf and for searching and indexing/a ...is wrong. It should be: a class=text href=the text version is pointed to by the href... useful to the deaf and for searching and indexing. It could be plain text. Or another format. Like a format that would sync up text with frame sequences in the media file./a [...] See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. charles @ reptile.ca supercanadian @ gmail.com developer weblog: http://ChangeLog.ca/ ___ Never forget where you came from ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Show Microformat Brainstorming
On Dec 6, 2005, at 1:27 AM, Charles Iliya Krempeaux wrote: Thought I'd do some thinking out load about possibilities for a show microformat. What is a show? Think TV show. Although it doesn't have to be a TV show. When you mentioned that, I had an orthogonal conception of the problem. Consider the case of the person writing about their favorite show, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, in their blog. Bloggers and Whedon: two things that go together, eh? Last night's Buffy episode was silly. I'd like to find all the shows my friends are watching/writing about, so I can build things from it, or tell tools go and buy these episodes of these shows from the Apricot You Tunes Music Store. Now there's not an existing XML format to my knowledge for us to work from. So I have to make some assumptions. 1. This is a recurring TV series our blogger's writing about. 2. It's in its N season. 3. This is episode X of the current season. Observing fan and academic writers online, I often see them refer to episodes of a TV show using: BtVS 1.12 Prophesy Girl That is: Episode twelve of season one of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, entitled Prophesy Girl. Okay: citeBtVS1.12 Prophesy Girl/cite Feh, it tells me it a cite, but there's only unicode inside. Better: cite class=htvBtVS 1.12 Prophesy Girl/cite Okay, it's a show using the htv µ format. Ah: cite class=htvspan class=seriesabbr title=Buffy the Vampire SlayerBtVS/abbr/span span class=season1/span.span class=episode12/span span class=titleProphesy Girl/span/ cite in the CSS we'll throw in a rule to put quotes around the episode title. So what do we have so far: htv series, requiredname of series name of series or abbr with title attribute set to name of series season, optionalnumber indicating season episode, optional number indicating order of airing [ headaches when we talk about Firefly that has a different canonical order than the airing order ] title, optional title of episode I'll run this past some media fan and academic friends to get their impression. If there's interest, I'll write it up for the bestiary. -- Bill 'whump' Humphries | http://www.whump.com/___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Show Microformat Brainstorming
Hello, On 12/6/05, Bill Humphries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 6, 2005, at 1:27 AM, Charles Iliya Krempeaux wrote: Thought I'd do some thinking out load about possibilities for a show microformat. What is a show? Think TV show. Although it doesn't have to be a TV show. When you mentioned that, I had an orthogonal conception of the problem. Consider the case of the person writing about their favorite show, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, in their blog. Bloggers and Whedon: two things that go together, eh? Yeah, I like Whedon's shows too :-) Last night's Buffy episode was silly. I'd like to find all the shows my friends are watching/writing about, so I can build things from it, or tell tools go and buy these episodes of these shows from the Apricot You Tunes Music Store. This is an area I've been working on too. (Although it wasn't something I tried to address in this thread. Trying to do this in steps :-) But I'm happy to broaden the discussion.) Specifically I thought about finding out what my friends, family, neighbor, people who's opinion matter to me, etc are watching, and using that find stuff I might like to watch too. I wrote about it a bit here: http://changelog.ca/log/2005/09/12/proposed-microformats-for-reputation-and-trust-metrics (Although the article addresses the larger topic of trust metrics and isn't specifically about Internet TV.) This becomes especially powerful (for all parties involved) when people do auto subscribing via this to series, channels, etc. (I won't try to enumerating all the problems Internet Television present. This message would get just to huge, but) one of the solutions for Internet Television is advertising what you watch. If you look at my weblog -- http://changelog.ca/ -- you can see a couple XOXO lists where I list (some of) the shows I watch, and (some of) the channels I watch. (shows and channels are concepts I've found are important when dealing with Internet TV.) Each is an XOXO list, with some other (semantic) class names used. (These extra class names may or may not change in the future.) Things like this will become important as more and more shows and channels get syndicated on the web. I.e., Internet TV, IPTV, NewTube, broadcatching, vcasting, vidcasting, vodcasting, or whatever you want to call it. (This syndication can take place via RSS/Atom. Or via hAtom and the Microformat I've been trying to discuss in this thread.) Of course, what you discuss next is a little different than this, but is very important too. Now there's not an existing XML format to my knowledge for us to work from. So I have to make some assumptions. 1. This is a recurring TV series our blogger's writing about. 2. It's in its N season. 3. This is episode X of the current season. Observing fan and academic writers online, I often see them refer to episodes of a TV show using: BtVS 1.12 Prophesy Girl That is: Episode twelve of season one of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, entitled Prophesy Girl. Okay: citeBtVS1.12 Prophesy Girl/cite Feh, it tells me it a cite, but there's only unicode inside. Better: cite class=htvBtVS 1.12 Prophesy Girl/cite Okay, it's a show using the htv µ format. Ah: cite class=htvspan class=seriesabbr title=Buffy the Vampire SlayerBtVS/abbr/span span class=season1/span.span class=episode12/span span class=titleProphesy Girl/span/ cite in the CSS we'll throw in a rule to put quotes around the episode title. I think that all shows, episodes, series, and channels will (in the near future) have URLs associated with them. So, I think it is important to work that concept in there too. (Actually, I can guarantee you that at least some of them will.) I.e, there's a URL for the series/show. And there's a URL for each episode. (Channels are will have URLs too.) Also, the person giving the review might want to make a buck if someone follows the link they provide to the show, series, channel, etc, and pays some money to watch it. So you may want to work that concept in there too. (And this link should be able to be expressed as an HTTP POST and not just an HTTP GET,... so both a and form should be supported for it.) Also, you may want to see what people are currently doing out there. And make sure what you propose can be nicely applied to that too. So what do we have so far: htv series, requiredname of series name of series or abbr with title attribute set to name of series season, optionalnumber indicating season episode, optional number indicating order of airing [ headaches when we talk about Firefly that has a different canonical order than the airing order ] title, optional title of episode I'll run this past some media fan and academic friends to get their impression. If there's interest, I'll write it up for the bestiary. I'm definitely
Re: [uf-discuss] Show Microformat Brainstorming
On Dec 6, 2005, at 8:27 PM, Charles Iliya Krempeaux wrote: I think that all shows, episodes, series, and channels will (in the near future) have URLs associated with them. So, I think it is important to work that concept in there too. (Actually, I can guarantee you that at least some of them will.) Since that's currently not the case (unless you count the handful of shows available via iTMS,) I'm going to fall back on the principles and the you ain't gonna need it rule and leave that out for now. Hopefully I'm not premature in writing up a straw-man model. I've punted the idea to people who are practitioners in the domain for further comment, and will get back to the list. -- whump ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
