Re: [uf-discuss] Fwd: Microformats for Dummies presentations/talks/slides/points
Hi! nice presentation... pity you don't have the demos available! ;) Pedro On Mar 22, 2006, at 11:22 PM, Ryan King wrote: I covered a good deal of basics at webzine: http://theryanking.com/ presentations/2005/webzine/. -rk On Mar 22, 2006, at 2:03 PM, Dimitri Glazkov wrote: == Oops -- I sent it to the wrong (microformats-rest) group. Damn you, auto-complete! Guys, I am going to try and put together a Microformats for Dummies presentation -- a 50-minute pitch of microformats to the about-technical crowd, with no prerequisites and possibly some (pre|mis)conceptions. The audience in broad strokes: * actively uses Web today * is vaguely familiar with HTML (FrontPage, Dreamweaver) * stares blankly when semantic markup is mentioned * understands general client-server interaction concept (surprisingly, some even built C/S apps) General goals: * gain general understanding of what microformats are about * introduce fuzzy yet warm appreciation of the bigger picture (semantic web, future, etc.) * shed light on microformats process and its implications (Community Mark, etc.) on the modern business process (ok, this may be a touch out of scope) * give away bunches upon bunches of MF t-shirts Any good pointers are appreciated. :DG ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- Ryan King [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Plants Microformat
Hi, I am developing a microformat proposal for plants. Please take a look and join in if you wish. http://microformats.org/wiki/plant-examples Mark Gibbons ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] ANN: Curiosity - an XPath based Microformats scraper
Hi all, I would like to announce the first release of Curiosity, a .NET xpath based screen scraper and push platform, which can be straightaway used for scraping Microformats data. *** http://www.go-curiosity.com *** Curiosity can extract data from ANY web page, because it uses Tidy (http://tidy.sourceforge.net/) for converting the page in xhtml. For every page defined in its configuration, Curiosity maintains an history of the data extracted in the past: hence, it can easily identify new, modified and deleted items. Moreover, Curiosity can be instructed with (xpath based) crawling rules, form based authentications (even on https) and proxy settings. The extracted data can be handled by an extensible architecture of providers: Curiosity is equipped with providers for sending the data by email, and for creating and uploading RSS feeds by means of ftp. If you want to build your own provider, you just have to implement a simple interface using .NET languages (the c# sources of a sample custom provider for pushing data in a MS Jet db are available). In order to engineering the xpath scraping rules, a visual tool named Curiosity Studio is supplied: it will be just matter of selecting the relevant text in an embedded Internet Explorer and its xpath will be automatically computed. Finally, Curiosity can be also run in application server mode: this way, the scraping facilities can be invoked by means of SOAP web services. Curiosity is available FREE OF CHARGE FOR NON-COMMERCIAL AND PERSONAL USE in a private domain, and for NON COMMERCIAL use in research projects. Regards, piercarlo slavazza http://www.go-curiosity.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Plants Microformat
On Mar 23, 2006, at 7:20 AM, mark gibbons wrote: Hi, I am developing a microformat proposal for plants. Please take a look and join in if you wish. http://microformats.org/wiki/plant-examples I don't understand what problem this microformat would solve. The stated problem seems to be basically there's no microformat, which doesn't really explain why there should be. Peace, Scott ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Plants Microformat
Hi, I don't understand what problem this microformat would solve. The stated problem seems to be basically there's no microformat, which doesn't really explain why there should be. Thanks for the reply Scott. I would be the first to admit it is a niche, but here would be a few scenarios where I can see this as useful. - Collection of distributed plant information from the web into larger plant databases. - Plant catalogs can be published by retailers and the information about what can be bought where, can be easily aggregated. - Building up personal catalogs of plants, so I can have a customized view on my own plants that I grow, telling me more about them. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hAtom look-see
On Mar 22, 2006, at 12:36 PM, Robert Bachmann wrote: Hi Chris, Thanks for your feedback. Please note that feed title, feed updated, feed id and feed link aren't covered by hAtom 0.1. So we (the stylesheet authors) needed to come up with our own extraction methods, which I'll outline with some pseudo-code. As I posed in IRC yesterday -- is it really up to the stylesheet / authors of consumers to determine this stuff? Almost definitely this should become part of the spec/wiki and consensus reached -- both for the benefit of tool authors -- but also the benefit of page builders like myself who are trying to reconcile differences between hAtom and the Atom spec and wondering how they work together.. Since then I've relaunched my site ChunkySoup.net -- http://chunkysoup.net/ -- with hAtom 0.1 (and hCard) support. My updated comments below reflect the current extraction of the hAtom content at: http://chunkysoup.net/extras/behindcs/ http://www.lukearno.com/projects/hatom2atom/? url=http%3A%2F%2Fchunkysoup.net%2Fextras%2Fbehindcs%2Fctype=text%2Fxml http://feedvalidator.org/check.cgi? url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lukearno.com%2Fprojects%2Fhatom2atom%2F%3Furl%3Dhtt p%253A%252F%252Fchunkysoup.net%252Fextras%252Fbehindcs%252F%26ctype%3Dte xt%252Fxml Chris Casciano wrote: In Example 1: Error 1: Field Feed-updated is an empty tag -- TOOL error (see below) Error 2: Field Feed-id is an enpty tag -- TOOL error # $source-uri is an xsl:param for the stylesheet IF $hfeed-level/a:[EMAIL PROTECTED]bookmark] FEED-ID = $feed-level/a:[EMAIL PROTECTED]bookmark]/@href ELSE IF [EMAIL PROTECTED] != ] FEED-ID = $source-uri + # + @id ELSE FEED-ID = $source-uri Note: The proxy had a bug, it didn't pass $source-uri to the XSL - this is fixed now. I see that and it seems to be working, though I now get the new warning: line 5, column 94: Same-document reference [help] ... tras/behindcs/#posts type=text/html/ Warning 2: Feed Missing atom:link with rel=self -- would be TOOL So what should that link look like? link rel=self href=http://someproxy.org/?url=http://example.com/bar; / I'm not the one to answer that. In Example 2: Error 2: Field Feed- id must be a full and valid URL -- TOOL error Error 3: Field entry - id must be a full and valid URL -- TOOL error This was caused by the bug mentioned above. Error 4: field entry updated must be an RFC-3339 date-time -- TOOL error Currently we just do copy the string from the input to the output. Future versions will try to re-format (and add needed extra specificity) to the input, for example: 20031213 - 2003-12-13T18:30:00-00:00 2003-12-13 - 2003-12-13T18:30:00-00:00 2003-12-13 18:30+01- 2003-12-13T18:30:00+01:00 2003-12-13 18:30:02+01 - 2003-12-13T18:30:02+01:00 For reference or future testing the current version of my example page uses the second form. Things the hatom parser should do but isn't: * Value the feed - updated timestamp based off document statistics Future versions will perhaps do something like this A = array(); FOR EACH $d IN $entry-updated A.add( pad-datetime($d) ) FOR EACH $d IN $entry-published A.add( pad-datetime($d) ) A.sort_by ( datetime-to-utc($element) ) FEED-TITLE = A[0]; Is this a better direction to take then using html document statistics? Neither case is sound, but this doesn't allow for things like changes to Author, Feed ID, or other things that might sneak into an html page outside of individual entry data. I'm just thinking out loud here -- I know the opposite case can be made -- that html-page last-mod dates might pick up things totally unrelated to the feed being extracted. Again Robert, thanks for the detailed explanation and shout if you want a had updating or proofing anything on the wiki. -- [ Chris Casciano ] [ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] [ http://placenamehere.com ] ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Plants Microformat
On Mar 23, 2006, at 8:12 AM, mark gibbons wrote: I would be the first to admit it is a niche, but here would be a few scenarios where I can see this as useful. - Collection of distributed plant information from the web into larger plant databases. - Plant catalogs can be published by retailers and the information about what can be bought where, can be easily aggregated. - Building up personal catalogs of plants, so I can have a customized view on my own plants that I grow, telling me more about them. Sounds good. This might have some overlap with the discussed product microformat, but it doesn't have the major problem of identification with the latin terms acting as unique IDs. Peace, Scott ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] 30 Boxes Supports Microformats - hcard and hcal
Yes, thats what I mean. That's a great service. Unfortunately 30boxes doesn't (yet) support subscribing to ical feeds. They do support rss feeds. Might be interesting to create a similar service that translates hcalendar into a basic rss... On 3/23/06, Ryan King [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You mean subscribing to a webpage with hCalendar in it? You can do it, It's like unix pipes for the web. Just put: http://feeds.technorati.com/events/ in front of the url you want to subscribe to (assuming you can subscribe to iCalendar). ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hAtom look-see
On Mar 23, 2006, at 6:14 AM, Chris Casciano wrote: On Mar 22, 2006, at 12:36 PM, Robert Bachmann wrote: Hi Chris, Thanks for your feedback. Please note that feed title, feed updated, feed id and feed link aren't covered by hAtom 0.1. So we (the stylesheet authors) needed to come up with our own extraction methods, which I'll outline with some pseudo-code. As I posed in IRC yesterday -- is it really up to the stylesheet / authors of consumers to determine this stuff? Almost definitely this should become part of the spec/wiki and consensus reached -- both for the benefit of tool authors -- but also the benefit of page builders like myself who are trying to reconcile differences between hAtom and the Atom spec and wondering how they work together.. Yes, I think it *should* be. They were left out of 0.1 for the sake of getting something out the door. -rk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hAtom look-see
On Mar 23, 2006, at 9:54 AM, Dr. Ernie Prabhakar wrote: Is there TBD section of the wiki to start the discussion about 0.2? As far as I can tell, no, but David Janes may know better. David? -rk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hAtom look-see
I've just made a small reorg on hatom-issues [1]. It should be fairly clear where to start adding your suggestions and proposals for what goes into hAtom 0.2. If it's fairly clear what the exact atom analogy is (e.g. Feed Title), there's a place for that. And if it's more handwavy, there's a section for that too. Regards, etc... David [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-issues Ryan King wrote: On Mar 23, 2006, at 9:54 AM, Dr. Ernie Prabhakar wrote: Is there TBD section of the wiki to start the discussion about 0.2? As far as I can tell, no, but David Janes may know better. David? -rk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Tantek Spreads The Word
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kplawver/116847143/ Just in case you weren't there, Tantek did a fine job converting the Microsofties in attendance. Cheers, Kevin http://lawver.net ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Dreamweaver implementation
On 18 Mar 2006, at 11:39, Drew McLellan wrote: Has anyone seen any third-party microformat support for Dreamweaver? I've done a bit of searching and can't find any reference to actual implementations. If there's nothing out there I'll see if I can knock something together today. Just a quick update to this, I've soft-beta'd this here: http://www.webstandards.org/action/dwtf/microformats We have support for hCalendar, hCard and XFN so far. Thanks to everyone from this list who has been helping me test to this point. I'll add something to the respective Implementation pages of the wiki. drew. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Plants Microformat
On Mar 23, 2006, at 3:43 PM, Paul Bryson wrote: but it doesn't have the major problem of identification with the latin terms acting as unique IDs. Is there any page that discusses the potential issues of using IDs in microformats? Oh, I didn't mean ID attributes - just something to uniquely identify plants. All plants have a unique latin name, so if two people discuss the same plant, it's easy to identify that they're both the same. It's much more complicated with products, because different systems use different identifiers (bar codes, serial numbers, ISBN, VIN, etc.), which can overlap. It's clear what span class=latin- nameErysimum Cheiri/span means because there is only one Erysimum Cheiri in the plant world. It's less clear what span class=idQ7639R087/span means, because the meaning is very dependent on context. Peace, Scott ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Plants Microformat
I'm not a botanist, so i don't know all the intricacy of plants, but as with all new microformats it is suggested that you get examples from other sites and how they describe plants. These means that you will need to collect what properties other sites use such as, TYPE, WEATHER, WATER, AMOUNT OF SUNLIGHT, etc. Then you will need to also get HOW they describe each attribute, for example AMOUNT OF SUNLIGHT, is this it in hours, seasons, is it shade no shade direct sun, etc? That should be your first task. If you can't find any data online, then it begs the question of usefulness, but I don't want to discourage you from looking. The nice thing about microformats is that we can constantly iterate. We don't need to sit for years to make a perfect system no one uses, we want to look at how the community at large is working and try to make things easier for already published data. In the same vein as classification of plants, we might want to explore making a simple microformat that mimics the classification system of the taxonomy of organizims. Kingdom-Phylum-...Family-Species. That way additional microformats (such as this plant idea) can use something like abbr title=homosapien class=speciesHuman/abbr to uniquely identify data that can be cross-references in different databases. Any thoughts? -brian On 3/23/06, Scott Reynen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 23, 2006, at 3:43 PM, Paul Bryson wrote: but it doesn't have the major problem of identification with the latin terms acting as unique IDs. Is there any page that discusses the potential issues of using IDs in microformats? Oh, I didn't mean ID attributes - just something to uniquely identify plants. All plants have a unique latin name, so if two people discuss the same plant, it's easy to identify that they're both the same. It's much more complicated with products, because different systems use different identifiers (bar codes, serial numbers, ISBN, VIN, etc.), which can overlap. It's clear what span class=latin- nameErysimum Cheiri/span means because there is only one Erysimum Cheiri in the plant world. It's less clear what span class=idQ7639R087/span means, because the meaning is very dependent on context. Peace, Scott ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- brian suda http://suda.co.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Searching email archives...
A friend had asked me a question to which, alas, I don't have a good answer. How does one search this list's archives? There doesn't seem to be an easy way to do it apart from downloading each month into one folder type of thing. Anybody care to share their tips, tricks, and obviously missed links? :DG ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Plants Microformat
Brian, if you look at the wiki, it would seem that he already has done much of what you list. I'm with you so far as defining the simpler microformat first for the Latin classification system. My thought is that it's a very specific microformat, which sort of bucks the trend of very broadly applicable microformats thus far defined and set as official specifications on microformats.org. My suggestion is, a plant microformat does not necessarily require the endorsement of microformats.org. If one desires to propose a new format for something, it is much easier to build support if there are already tools available which can make use of it. That is, make the plant information aggregator *first*, /then/ market the format. This is part of the reason why I believe hCalendar and hCard have gained such wide adoption, as there is already x2v, the relevant creator applets, and the wide range of existing applications which could already make use of vcard and icalendar files produced from x2v. However, a species classification microformat would fit right in with the other broadly applicable microformats on microformats.org. Brian Suda wrote: I'm not a botanist, so i don't know all the intricacy of plants, but as with all new microformats it is suggested that you get examples from other sites and how they describe plants. These means that you will need to collect what properties other sites use such as, TYPE, WEATHER, WATER, AMOUNT OF SUNLIGHT, etc. Then you will need to also get HOW they describe each attribute, for example AMOUNT OF SUNLIGHT, is this it in hours, seasons, is it shade no shade direct sun, etc? That should be your first task. If you can't find any data online, then it begs the question of usefulness, but I don't want to discourage you from looking. The nice thing about microformats is that we can constantly iterate. We don't need to sit for years to make a perfect system no one uses, we want to look at how the community at large is working and try to make things easier for already published data. In the same vein as classification of plants, we might want to explore making a simple microformat that mimics the classification system of the taxonomy of organizims. Kingdom-Phylum-...Family-Species. That way additional microformats (such as this plant idea) can use something like abbr title=homosapien class=speciesHuman/abbr to uniquely identify data that can be cross-references in different databases. Any thoughts? -brian ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Searching email archives...
Include site:http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/ in a google search. On 3/23/06, Dimitri Glazkov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A friend had asked me a question to which, alas, I don't have a good answer. How does one search this list's archives? There doesn't seem to be an easy way to do it apart from downloading each month into one folder type of thing. Anybody care to share their tips, tricks, and obviously missed links? ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Plants Microformat
On Mar 23, 2006, at 8:31 PM, Breton Blake Slivka wrote: Brian, if you look at the wiki, it would seem that he already has done much of what you list. I'm with you so far as defining the simpler microformat first for the Latin classification system. My thought is that it's a very specific microformat, which sort of bucks the trend of very broadly applicable microformats thus far defined and set as official specifications on microformats.org. First two microformat principles: * solve a specific problem * start as simple as possible http://microformats.org/about/ This looks to me like a good candidate for a microformat, generally in line with both the principles and the process. Peace, Scott ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] See Bill say it yourself!
Got the video, had to YouTube it: http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2006/03/23/the-imminent-rise-of-microformats/ Cheers! ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Enumerating Microformats on a Page
Hello, forgive me if this question comes across as naïve or uninformed as I am new to the list, but I have tried to soak in as much information as quickly as possible via the wiki and mailing list, but haven't found an answer to something I've been thinking about. I was considering writing a simple Javascript that would iterate elements in a page and somehow highlight any and all microformats in use on a page. The trouble is there appears to be no common identifier for microformats that would indicate that a snippet of XHTML is a microformat. I'd have to know the format for all possible microformats ahead of time, which of course is impossible since the creation of a microformat is distributed, correct? I can see such a script as being useful as a Bookmarklet to show a user which elements of a page are microformats. My first question, is there some common identifier that I'm just missing? Second, is there a philosophical or practical reason not to have some identifier? One reason I can think of is that it may be slightly unwieldy. div class=vcard.../div Might become div class=microformat vcard.../div Or div class=mf vcard.../div Perhaps an auto-discovery mechanism or table of contents Microformat might be helpful in this case? I'm still trying to catch up on where the auto-discovery discussion is currently situated. I wrote a post on some thoughts here (relevant part starts 3rd para down http://haacked.com/archive/2006/03/21/Mix06MicroformatsAutodiscovery.aspx) in the hopes that someone would enlighten me a bit ;) Thanks for your time! Phil ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Enumerating Microformats on a Page
Hello, I myself am new to the discussion list, though perhaps I might be able to shed *some* light on your question. From what I understand, if a page includes microformats, that page /should/ link to an xmdp profile for each microformat in the head of the document. This allows for autodiscovery, validation, and mechanism for defining a microformat. -Breton Phil Haack wrote: Hello, forgive me if this question comes across as naïve or uninformed as I am new to the list, but I have tried to soak in as much information as quickly as possible via the wiki and mailing list, but haven't found an answer to something I've been thinking about. I was considering writing a simple Javascript that would iterate elements in a page and somehow highlight any and all microformats in use on a page. The trouble is there appears to be no common identifier for microformats that would indicate that a snippet of XHTML is a microformat. I'd have to know the format for all possible microformats ahead of time, which of course is impossible since the creation of a microformat is distributed, correct? I can see such a script as being useful as a Bookmarklet to show a user which elements of a page are microformats. My first question, is there some common identifier that I'm just missing? Second, is there a philosophical or practical reason not to have some identifier? One reason I can think of is that it may be slightly unwieldy. div class=vcard.../div Might become div class=microformat vcard.../div Or div class=mf vcard.../div Perhaps an auto-discovery mechanism or table of contents Microformat might be helpful in this case? I'm still trying to catch up on where the auto-discovery discussion is currently situated. I wrote a post on some thoughts here (relevant part starts 3rd para down http://haacked.com/archive/2006/03/21/Mix06MicroformatsAutodiscovery.aspx) in the hopes that someone would enlighten me a bit ;) Thanks for your time! Phil ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
