[uf-discuss] Re: Combining hCard and hCalendar
I've got a table that lists a number of events and their organisers. I'd like to include both hCalendars for the events, and hCards for the organisers. Since each event is listen along with its organiser in a table row, I've given CLASS=vcard vevent to the TR. However, now I notice some of the hCard and hCalendar attributes clash, especially url in my case. The url is only meant to be included in the hCalendar, not in the hCard. How should I handle this case where hCards and hCalendars are mixed together, without getting conflicting attributes? Do you have a live URL we can look at? Ideally you'd have class=vcard organizer within the vevent rather than class=vcard vevent, limiting the scope of the hCard to the actual contact information. That can be more complex in tables, but it is possible. See: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar- brainstorming#Tabular_event_calendars Peace, Scott The site is dynamic and on the intranet, so difficult to show something, but the basic layout of the table is thus: | Event 1 | 01-01-2007 | example.org/event1 | Organiser 1 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Event 2 | 02-02-2007 | example.org/event2 | Organiser 1 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Event 3 | 03-03-2007 | example.org/event3 | Organiser 2 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | I would like to be able to extract 2 contacts and 3 events from this table, and the url (example.org/eventx) should only be connected to the event. My table row template is as follows: tr class=vcard vevent td class=summaryEvent 1/td tdabbr title=20070101 class=dtstamp2007-01-01/abbr/td tda href=http://example.org/event1; class=urlsubscribe/a/td td class=fnOrganiser 1/td tda href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] class=emailcontact/a/td /tr ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Re: Combining hCard and hCalendar
To solve a problem like this, I include all the vcard info within one cell and then set the display attribute to none. The vcard did not get displayed but was read by both of the Firefox plugins. On 8/7/07, Peter Bremer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've got a table that lists a number of events and their organisers. I'd like to include both hCalendars for the events, and hCards for the organisers. Since each event is listen along with its organiser in a table row, I've given CLASS=vcard vevent to the TR. However, now I notice some of the hCard and hCalendar attributes clash, especially url in my case. The url is only meant to be included in the hCalendar, not in the hCard. How should I handle this case where hCards and hCalendars are mixed together, without getting conflicting attributes? Do you have a live URL we can look at? Ideally you'd have class=vcard organizer within the vevent rather than class=vcard vevent, limiting the scope of the hCard to the actual contact information. That can be more complex in tables, but it is possible. See: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar- brainstorming#Tabular_event_calendars Peace, Scott The site is dynamic and on the intranet, so difficult to show something, but the basic layout of the table is thus: | Event 1 | 01-01-2007 | example.org/event1 | Organiser 1 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Event 2 | 02-02-2007 | example.org/event2 | Organiser 1 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Event 3 | 03-03-2007 | example.org/event3 | Organiser 2 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | I would like to be able to extract 2 contacts and 3 events from this table, and the url (example.org/eventx) should only be connected to the event. My table row template is as follows: tr class=vcard vevent td class=summaryEvent 1/td tdabbr title=20070101 class=dtstamp2007-01-01/abbr/td tda href=http://example.org/event1; class=urlsubscribe/a/td td class=fnOrganiser 1/td tda href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] class=emailcontact/a/td /tr ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- Blog- http://www.abcedmindedness.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Re: Combining hCard and hCalendar
On Aug 7, 2007, at 2:45 AM, Peter Bremer wrote: The site is dynamic and on the intranet, so difficult to show something, but the basic layout of the table is thus: | Event 1 | 01-01-2007 | example.org/event1 | Organiser 1 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Event 2 | 02-02-2007 | example.org/event2 | Organiser 1 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Event 3 | 03-03-2007 | example.org/event3 | Organiser 2 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | I would like to be able to extract 2 contacts and 3 events from this table, and the url (example.org/eventx) should only be connected to the event. My table row template is as follows: tr class=vcard vevent td class=summaryEvent 1/td tdabbr title=20070101 class=dtstamp2007-01-01/abbr/td tda href=http://example.org/event1; class=urlsubscribe/ a/td td class=fnOrganiser 1/td tda href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] class=emailcontact/ a/td /tr Someone more familiar with table column semantics could maybe explain how that works (I've never used it), but you could also do this with the include pattern [1]: tr class=vevent td class=summaryEvent 1/td tdabbr title=20070101 class=dtstamp2007-01-01/abbr/td tda href=http://example.org/event1; class=urlsubscribe/a/ td td class=vcardspan class=fnOrganiser 1/spana class=include href=#email1/a/td tda id=email1 href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] class=emailcontact/a/td /tr Also, I'm guessing you probably want dtstart instead of dtstamp. The former indicates when an event is happening, the latter when it was published. [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/include-pattern Peace, Scott ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Re: Combining hCard and hCalendar
On 8/7/07, Peter Bremer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My table row template is as follows: tr class=vcard vevent td class=summaryEvent 1/td tdabbr title=20070101 class=dtstamp2007-01-01/abbr/td tda href=http://example.org/event1; class=urlsubscribe/a/td td class=fnOrganiser 1/td tda href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] class=emailcontact/a/td /tr This is pretty tricky, as there's no valid element that can wrap around the TDs. I think something like the following may make semantic sense: colgroup span=2/colgroup colgroup span=2 class=vcard organiser/colgroup tr class=event td class=summaryEvent 1/td tdabbr title=20070101 class=dtstamp2007-01-01/abbr/td tda href=http://example.org/event1; class=urlsubscribe/a/td td class=fnOrganiser 1/td tda href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] class=emailcontact/a/td /tr But a close reading of the HTML spec would be required, and I doubt any parsers would pick it up.. -Ciaran McNulty ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Re: Combining hCard and hCalendar
On 8/7/07, Scott Reynen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 7, 2007, at 2:45 AM, Peter Bremer wrote: The site is dynamic and on the intranet, so difficult to show something, but the basic layout of the table is thus: Someone more familiar with table column semantics could maybe explain how that works (I've never used it), but you could also do this with the include pattern [1]: --- table semantics pop-up every once and awhile, and i keep meaning to scribble some more notes down on the wiki, but never have time. Tables have several additional semantic attributes, such as AXIS, HEADER, and SCOPE. http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-brainstorming#Tabular_event_calendars There is even a note saying TODO, but we´ve never gotten around to it. It requires some back-ground reading and abit of homework, but X2V supports it. header/id call-backs. This might help you get some of the results you are looking for, in a semantic fashion as well. Sorry i can't be more help. -brian -- brian suda http://suda.co.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Re: XOXO multi-valued property notation
FYI, moved to spec: http://microformats.org/wiki/xoxo#Multi-value_Properties :DG On 8/2/07, Dimitri Glazkov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The description of how to specify multi-valued properties, recorded on xoxo-faq page seems logical and I think it belongs in the spec. Any objections if I move it over there? Perhaps right below the Special Properties? ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Micro Summary
On Aug 7, 2007, at 9:19 AM, Paul Kinlan wrote: I am thinking of using META description for now (but I am not sure of the quality of data in the tag), however, I have been looking at micro-summary (http://microformats.org/wiki/microsummary- brainstorming). Is this topic still alive? Has anyone been developing this? Are there any other similar developments (that I have missed)? If not, how can I help? Having micro summaries would solve part of a problem that I am having (other than what I suspect is lack of useage at the moment). I think the problem statement first needs clarification. As you point out, meta descriptions already provide summary information about web pages. What exactly are the problems with meta descriptions, and how would micro-summary solve them? If there's a compelling use case (for publishers, not just consumers), the next step is to collect examples of current publishing of this type of information. Then we can start analyzing both whether there's enough of it to be worth continuing, and if so, how we might structure it to be more machine-readable. Peace, Scott ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Micro Summary
On 8/7/07, Scott Reynen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 7, 2007, at 9:19 AM, Paul Kinlan wrote: I am thinking of using META description for now (but I am not sure of the quality of data in the tag), however, I have been looking at micro-summary (http://microformats.org/wiki/microsummary- brainstorming). Is this topic still alive? Has anyone been developing this? Are there any other similar developments (that I have missed)? --- some of this has been sucked-up into hAtom. If you blog is marked-up with hAtom, then each entry could possibly contain a class=entry-summary. On individual permalink pages, this could serve as an excellent summary of that page. I would also look into reusing some of the existing microformats as well. hAtom might solve what you are looking for. Since rel-tag is used in conjunction with hAtom, you could extract the entry-summary to associate with those tags. If the tag is inside an hCard or hCalendar, then you could extract the SUMMARY or FN from those. Instead of looking for something in the page to tell you what it is about, what about in context to the rel-tag? if it is inside other microformats, then you can use the existing semantics of those formats to glean summary information. -brian -- brian suda http://suda.co.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Micro Summary
Scott, I think the problem statement first needs clarification. As you point out, meta descriptions already provide summary information about web pages. What exactly are the problems with meta descriptions, and how would micro-summary solve them? I agree I think the problem needs to be clearly defiend. My problem in particular is that I need to display useful information about the target link. Meta description useage is fairly limited from some simple measurements I have made and from my target demographic. A micro summary would be useful for visability reasons i.e I can display on my results the same summary that is on the target page. If there's a compelling use case (for publishers, not just consumers) I have always had this problem about microformats is that in my opinon the only way to get publishers to use them is to have consumers explictly state that the consume them. But, by the by, I intend to consume them in this project :) the next step is to collect examples of current publishing of this type of information. Then we can start analyzing both whether there's enough of it to be worth continuing, and if so, how we might structure it to be more machine-readable. Agreed, but I am a bit impetoues and I want it now!! :) I think what I will do (and is probably the suggested way) is use what we already have, having read some of the stuff on the wiki I think I can make use of several existing formats (as suggested by brian). And although the usage of such formats appears limited at the moment I can either get the microformat community to use my site (as long as it is usefull I suppose) and then if other people want to use the site they can implent microformats on their site too! Peace, Scott Kind Regards Paul. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Micro Summary
Brian, Thanks for the information. I think you have a good point, I can use all the methods (given time to write the parser in terms of topicala), and fallback to meta description if all else fails. So if you use microformats you look better on my site and the results should be in context to the information on the target page, hopefully it will encourage uptake of microformats too... if people use my site ;) On a side note, does any one have any information quantites of useage of things like hAtom. Kind Regards, Paul Kinlan On 07/08/07, Brian Suda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/7/07, Scott Reynen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 7, 2007, at 9:19 AM, Paul Kinlan wrote: I am thinking of using META description for now (but I am not sure of the quality of data in the tag), however, I have been looking at micro-summary (http://microformats.org/wiki/microsummary- brainstorming). Is this topic still alive? Has anyone been developing this? Are there any other similar developments (that I have missed)? --- some of this has been sucked-up into hAtom. If you blog is marked-up with hAtom, then each entry could possibly contain a class=entry-summary. On individual permalink pages, this could serve as an excellent summary of that page. I would also look into reusing some of the existing microformats as well. hAtom might solve what you are looking for. Since rel-tag is used in conjunction with hAtom, you could extract the entry-summary to associate with those tags. If the tag is inside an hCard or hCalendar, then you could extract the SUMMARY or FN from those. Instead of looking for something in the page to tell you what it is about, what about in context to the rel-tag? if it is inside other microformats, then you can use the existing semantics of those formats to glean summary information. -brian -- brian suda http://suda.co.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Micro Summary
On Aug 7, 2007, at 2:22 PM, Paul Kinlan wrote: On a side note, does any one have any information quantites of useage of things like hAtom. The default theme on Blogger uses hAtom, so whatever the number is, it's growing by tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of blogs every day. Peace, Scott ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Re: Micro Summary
Paul Kinlan wrote: Thanks for the information. I think you have a good point, I can use all the methods (given time to write the parser in terms of topicala), and fallback to meta description if all else fails. Look also for meta name=DC.description. Keywords and DC.subject also may be of interest. -- Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS [Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux] [OS: Linux 2.6.12-12mdksmp, up 48 days, 3:37.] Command Line Interfaces, Again http://tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2007/08/02/command-line-again/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] tabular event calenders - examples?
http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-brainstorming#Tabular_event_calendars the link to the example is broken - we05.com seems to no longer exist. Is there another example somewhere? Now that I have managed to get my parser to handle include-pattern I'd like to look at any other stuff it might need to be able to do. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
