Re: [uf-discuss] hAtom look-see
On Mar 22, 2006, at 12:36 PM, Robert Bachmann wrote: Hi Chris, Thanks for your feedback. Please note that feed title, feed updated, feed id and feed link aren't covered by hAtom 0.1. So we (the stylesheet authors) needed to come up with our own extraction methods, which I'll outline with some pseudo-code. As I posed in IRC yesterday -- is it really up to the stylesheet / authors of consumers to determine this stuff? Almost definitely this should become part of the spec/wiki and consensus reached -- both for the benefit of tool authors -- but also the benefit of page builders like myself who are trying to reconcile differences between hAtom and the Atom spec and wondering how they work together.. Since then I've relaunched my site ChunkySoup.net -- http://chunkysoup.net/ -- with hAtom 0.1 (and hCard) support. My updated comments below reflect the current extraction of the hAtom content at: http://chunkysoup.net/extras/behindcs/ http://www.lukearno.com/projects/hatom2atom/? url=http%3A%2F%2Fchunkysoup.net%2Fextras%2Fbehindcs%2Fctype=text%2Fxml http://feedvalidator.org/check.cgi? url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lukearno.com%2Fprojects%2Fhatom2atom%2F%3Furl%3Dhtt p%253A%252F%252Fchunkysoup.net%252Fextras%252Fbehindcs%252F%26ctype%3Dte xt%252Fxml Chris Casciano wrote: In Example 1: Error 1: Field Feed-updated is an empty tag -- TOOL error (see below) Error 2: Field Feed-id is an enpty tag -- TOOL error # $source-uri is an xsl:param for the stylesheet IF $hfeed-level/a:[EMAIL PROTECTED]bookmark] FEED-ID = $feed-level/a:[EMAIL PROTECTED]bookmark]/@href ELSE IF [EMAIL PROTECTED] != ] FEED-ID = $source-uri + # + @id ELSE FEED-ID = $source-uri Note: The proxy had a bug, it didn't pass $source-uri to the XSL - this is fixed now. I see that and it seems to be working, though I now get the new warning: line 5, column 94: Same-document reference [help] ... tras/behindcs/#posts type=text/html/ Warning 2: Feed Missing atom:link with rel=self -- would be TOOL So what should that link look like? link rel=self href=http://someproxy.org/?url=http://example.com/bar; / I'm not the one to answer that. In Example 2: Error 2: Field Feed- id must be a full and valid URL -- TOOL error Error 3: Field entry - id must be a full and valid URL -- TOOL error This was caused by the bug mentioned above. Error 4: field entry updated must be an RFC-3339 date-time -- TOOL error Currently we just do copy the string from the input to the output. Future versions will try to re-format (and add needed extra specificity) to the input, for example: 20031213 - 2003-12-13T18:30:00-00:00 2003-12-13 - 2003-12-13T18:30:00-00:00 2003-12-13 18:30+01- 2003-12-13T18:30:00+01:00 2003-12-13 18:30:02+01 - 2003-12-13T18:30:02+01:00 For reference or future testing the current version of my example page uses the second form. Things the hatom parser should do but isn't: * Value the feed - updated timestamp based off document statistics Future versions will perhaps do something like this A = array(); FOR EACH $d IN $entry-updated A.add( pad-datetime($d) ) FOR EACH $d IN $entry-published A.add( pad-datetime($d) ) A.sort_by ( datetime-to-utc($element) ) FEED-TITLE = A[0]; Is this a better direction to take then using html document statistics? Neither case is sound, but this doesn't allow for things like changes to Author, Feed ID, or other things that might sneak into an html page outside of individual entry data. I'm just thinking out loud here -- I know the opposite case can be made -- that html-page last-mod dates might pick up things totally unrelated to the feed being extracted. Again Robert, thanks for the detailed explanation and shout if you want a had updating or proofing anything on the wiki. -- [ Chris Casciano ] [ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] [ http://placenamehere.com ] ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hAtom look-see
On Mar 23, 2006, at 6:14 AM, Chris Casciano wrote: On Mar 22, 2006, at 12:36 PM, Robert Bachmann wrote: Hi Chris, Thanks for your feedback. Please note that feed title, feed updated, feed id and feed link aren't covered by hAtom 0.1. So we (the stylesheet authors) needed to come up with our own extraction methods, which I'll outline with some pseudo-code. As I posed in IRC yesterday -- is it really up to the stylesheet / authors of consumers to determine this stuff? Almost definitely this should become part of the spec/wiki and consensus reached -- both for the benefit of tool authors -- but also the benefit of page builders like myself who are trying to reconcile differences between hAtom and the Atom spec and wondering how they work together.. Yes, I think it *should* be. They were left out of 0.1 for the sake of getting something out the door. -rk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hAtom look-see
On Mar 23, 2006, at 9:54 AM, Dr. Ernie Prabhakar wrote: Is there TBD section of the wiki to start the discussion about 0.2? As far as I can tell, no, but David Janes may know better. David? -rk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hAtom look-see
I've just made a small reorg on hatom-issues [1]. It should be fairly clear where to start adding your suggestions and proposals for what goes into hAtom 0.2. If it's fairly clear what the exact atom analogy is (e.g. Feed Title), there's a place for that. And if it's more handwavy, there's a section for that too. Regards, etc... David [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-issues Ryan King wrote: On Mar 23, 2006, at 9:54 AM, Dr. Ernie Prabhakar wrote: Is there TBD section of the wiki to start the discussion about 0.2? As far as I can tell, no, but David Janes may know better. David? -rk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hAtom look-see
Hi Chris, Thanks for your feedback. Please note that feed title, feed updated, feed id and feed link aren't covered by hAtom 0.1. So we (the stylesheet authors) needed to come up with our own extraction methods, which I'll outline with some pseudo-code. Chris Casciano wrote: In Example 1: Error 1: Field Feed-updated is an empty tag -- TOOL error (see below) Error 2: Field Feed-id is an enpty tag -- TOOL error # $source-uri is an xsl:param for the stylesheet IF $hfeed-level/a:[EMAIL PROTECTED]bookmark] FEED-ID = $feed-level/a:[EMAIL PROTECTED]bookmark]/@href ELSE IF [EMAIL PROTECTED] != ] FEED-ID = $source-uri + # + @id ELSE FEED-ID = $source-uri Note: The proxy had a bug, it didn't pass $source-uri to the XSL - this is fixed now. Error 3: Fields Entry-id is an empty tag -- AUTHOR error Error 4: Fields entry-author is an empty tag -- AUTHOR error (must use ADDRESS outside of entries) Warning 1: Field Feed-Title is empty -- would be TOOL IF $hfeed-level/[EMAIL PROTECTED]feed-title] FEED-TITLE = $hfeed-level/[EMAIL PROTECTED]feed-title] ELSE IF $hfeed-level/h1|h2|h3|h4|h5|h6 FEED-TITLE = $hfeed-level/h1|h2|h3|h4|h5|h6 ELSE FEED-TITLE = I think this could be extended to # ... ELSE IF nearest-in-parent([EMAIL PROTECTED]feed-title]) FEED-TITLE = nearest-in-parent([EMAIL PROTECTED]feed-title][1]) ELSE IF nearest-in-parent(h1|h2|h3|h4|h5|h6) FEED-TITLE = nearest-in-parent(h1|h2|h3|h4|h5|h6) ELSE FEED-TITLE = /html/head/title Warning 2: Feed Missing atom:link with rel=self -- would be TOOL So what should that link look like? link rel=self href=http://someproxy.org/?url=http://example.com/bar; / In Example 2: Error 2: Field Feed- id must be a full and valid URL -- TOOL error Error 3: Field entry - id must be a full and valid URL -- TOOL error This was caused by the bug mentioned above. Error 4: field entry updated must be an RFC-3339 date-time -- TOOL error Currently we just do copy the string from the input to the output. Future versions will try to re-format (and add needed extra specificity) to the input, for example: 20031213 - 2003-12-13T18:30:00-00:00 2003-12-13 - 2003-12-13T18:30:00-00:00 2003-12-13 18:30+01- 2003-12-13T18:30:00+01:00 2003-12-13 18:30:02+01 - 2003-12-13T18:30:02+01:00 Things the hatom parser should do but isn't: * Value the feed - updated timestamp based off document statistics Future versions will perhaps do something like this A = array(); FOR EACH $d IN $entry-updated A.add( pad-datetime($d) ) FOR EACH $d IN $entry-published A.add( pad-datetime($d) ) A.sort_by ( datetime-to-utc($element) ) FEED-TITLE = A[0]; Robert -- Robert Bachmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] (OpenPGP KeyID: 0x4A5CCF10) ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hAtom look-see
On Mar 20, 2006, at 6:18 PM, Ryan King wrote: On Mar 19, 2006, at 1:36 PM, Ryan King wrote: On Mar 14, 2006, at 10:13 AM, Dimitri Glazkov wrote: Fellas, I wrote a post with an itsy-bitsy dose of hAtom in it: http://fuzzycontent.com/index.php/2006/03/14/context-wants-to-be- free-too/ I can't get any of the listed tools to validate it, though. Can you lend me a hand with your expertize and tell me if I am doing something wrong? looks good to me: http://www.lukearno.com/projects/hatom2atom/?url=http:// fuzzycontent.com/index.php/2006/03/14/context-wants-to-be-free-too/. Arg, I was wrong. Sorry. There's certainly some problems here, as pointed out by the feed validator: http://feedvalidator.org/check.cgi? url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lukearno.com%2Fprojects%2Fhatom2atom%2F%3Furl%3Dht tp%253A%252F%252Ffuzzycontent.com%252Findex.php%252F2006%252F03%252F14% 252Fcontext-wants-to-be-free-too%252F Right, in the example above there seem to be a few things contributing to the validation errors - some on the tool side and some on the author side. let me use that page as example 1, and the following as Example 2: http://chunkysoup.net/extras/behindcs/index_new.html In both cases using the hatom2atom proxy - feedvalidator.org as my tools... In Example 1: Error 1: Field Feed-updated is an empty tag -- TOOL error Error 2: Field Feed-id is an enpty tag -- TOOL error Error 3: Fields Entry-id is an empty tag -- AUTHOR error Error 4: Fields entry-author is an empty tag -- AUTHOR error (must use ADDRESS outside of entries) Warning 1: Field Feed-Title is empty -- would be TOOL Warning 2: Feed Missing atom:link with rel=self -- would be TOOL Warning 3: Duplicate Ids (blank) found - would be AUTHOR Warning 4: Two entries with the same value for atom:updated - would be AUTHOR, if its needed In Example 2: Error 1: Field Feed-updated is an empty tag -- TOOL error Error 2: Field Feed- id must be a full and valid URL -- TOOL error Error 3: Field entry - id must be a full and valid URL -- TOOL error Error 4: field entry updated must be an RFC-3339 date-time -- TOOL error Warning 1: Field Feed-Title is empty -- would be TOOL Warning 2: Feed Missing atom:link with rel=self -- would be TOOL In this case the ids for both the feed level and the individual entries are found by the parser, but the validator is expecting full URLs in those cases, but the xsl file is generating only the anchors/ids of the elements After some discussion it looks like the non-author errors (marked TOOL error) should be solved on the hatom consumption side (the xsl document) and not holes in the hatom specs or the validator. Things the hatom parser should do but isn't: * Value the feed - updated timestamp based off document statistics * add any needed extra date/time specificity to updated or published entry dates * properly extract full urls for ids at the feed + entry levels * resolve any warnings that are worthy of resolving NOTE: I'm using the version of the file that the proxy is currently using, I don't konw if any of these have been resolved in SVN or previously discussed on this list. I do have to say, I know the tools are raw, and I'm happy to help where I can with documentation or the tools themselves, but in this particular case having hatom specific parsing more clearly defined / spec'd somewhere would do a world of good. -- [ Chris Casciano ] [ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] [ http://placenamehere.com ] ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hAtom look-see
On Mar 14, 2006, at 10:13 AM, Dimitri Glazkov wrote: Fellas, I wrote a post with an itsy-bitsy dose of hAtom in it: http://fuzzycontent.com/index.php/2006/03/14/context-wants-to-be- free-too/ I can't get any of the listed tools to validate it, though. Can you lend me a hand with your expertize and tell me if I am doing something wrong? looks good to me: http://www.lukearno.com/projects/hatom2atom/? url=http://fuzzycontent.com/index.php/2006/03/14/context-wants-to-be- free-too/. Btw, hatom proxy bookmarklet: javascript:void(document.location='http://www.lukearno.com/projects/ hatom2atom/?url='+document.location) -r ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hAtom look-see
Hello,On 3/19/06, Ryan King [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 14, 2006, at 10:13 AM, Dimitri Glazkov wrote: Fellas, I wrote a post with an itsy-bitsy dose of hAtom in it: http://fuzzycontent.com/index.php/2006/03/14/context-wants-to-be- free-too/ I can't get any of the listed tools to validate it, though. Can you lend me a hand with your expertize and tell me if I am doing something wrong?looks good to me: http://www.lukearno.com/projects/hatom2atom/?url="" href="http://fuzzycontent.com/index.php/2006/03/14/context-wants-to-be-"> http://fuzzycontent.com/index.php/2006/03/14/context-wants-to-be-free-too/.Btw, hatom proxy bookmarklet:_javascript_:void(document.location='http://www.lukearno.com/projects/hatom2atom/?url=''http://www.lukearno.com/projects/hatom2atom/?url='+escape(document.location)) See ya-- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. charles @ reptile.ca supercanadian @ gmail.comdeveloper weblog: http://ChangeLog.ca/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] hAtom look-see
Fellas, I wrote a post with an itsy-bitsy dose of hAtom in it: http://fuzzycontent.com/index.php/2006/03/14/context-wants-to-be-free-too/ I can't get any of the listed tools to validate it, though. Can you lend me a hand with your expertize and tell me if I am doing something wrong? :DG ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
