Re: [uf-discuss] AP News microformat?
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Jonathan Malek wrote: > > > You're right--we inherit from hAtom. After reading David James' post > > on issues with hSlice: > > > > http://blogmatrix.blogmatrix.com/:entry:blogmatrix-2008-03-05-/ > > Ugh...chalk it up to 3 weeks of vacation. David, I would guess you > remember your own post :) And forgive the typo of your name. > LOL there's days I can't remember my middle name ;-) ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] AP News microformat?
> You're right--we inherit from hAtom. After reading David James' post > on issues with hSlice: > > http://blogmatrix.blogmatrix.com/:entry:blogmatrix-2008-03-05-/ Ugh...chalk it up to 3 weeks of vacation. David, I would guess you remember your own post :) And forgive the typo of your name. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] AP News microformat?
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 6:52 AM, David Janes wrote: > It's an overlay on hAtom, note the example. hentry entry-content, > though they seem to have invented duplicates, like "dateline" David, excuse the long delay in response as I was on vacation for the last 3 weeks. Just a quick note on duplicates: "dateline" is a special term in the news industry that describes where and when the story was filed (more at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dateline). It has a geo component to it, and is not meant to be either the created or updated dtstamp (which we reused from Atom). You're right--we inherit from hAtom. After reading David James' post on issues with hSlice: http://blogmatrix.blogmatrix.com/:entry:blogmatrix-2008-03-05-/ The rationale seemed pretty solid, and the benefits significant. I hope our "In General" section sums it up to some degree: http://labs.ap.org/wiki/hNews#In_General Our intent was to get silly errors cleaned up, then take this to the uf community for further comment. We've reused as much of the format, structure and template names as we could to facilitate the move. Regards, Jonathan ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] AP News microformat?
Hi All, I work for the Media Standards Trust, and I'm partly responsible for the value added news/'hnews' work. I speak for the MST, rather than the AP, that said, I believe most of our views on these subjects are similar or the same. I'll also encourage the people from AP who are involved in this work to get involved in this discussion too (and they've indicated to me recently that they'd like to engage with the microformats community). Some history : In mid-2008, the Media Standards Trust won grants from the Knight News Challenge and the MacArthur Foundation to "help improve the transparency of news online" [1]. I got involved later in 2008. At that time, the MST had already decided that the best way forward was to either encourage the use of existing microformats or to create their own. They had an internal draft poshformat, which I changed to be based on hatom (as significant portions of what it did was covered by hAtom). I spent a bit of time talking to people I know who are involved in the microformats community to seek advice about the best way of doing things (and got some very valuable feedback from Tantek at a barcamp), and fired a couple of emails at the microformats lists and didn't get much response. I released what I had done at that point as a set of recommendations on the use of, and a few extensions to hAtom [2], and a new poshformat "rel-principles" [3]. This work can be seen at http://newscredit.org/ (particularly under the development section). This site will soon be deprecated in favour of our latter work. We then focussed on spending time talking to news organisations about working with us on the format, and have had sets of discussions with Reuters, The Guardian, BBC, AP and others with varying degrees of success. When we approached the AP, we found that they were also looking at doing a large release of content with some form of consistent markup - they were looking at either using existing microformats or creating their own, in much the same manner that the MST had been doing. We then decided to merge our efforts in order to not duplicate work. After looking at our work, they were also convinced that extending hAtom was the way forward. As I understand it, due to internal commercial concerns, they were not ready to be able to discuss this particularly publicly until very recently (they're using this as part of their new content API release, which at the time they were not discussing publicly, but which is currently in private beta). As we believe that expediency was important to keep this project moving, we have released a early draft version of our work to the outside world. Because we intended on seeing whether our work would be accepted by the microformats community, it's currently termed, within its specification, as a microformat - if this document doesn't end up being taken into the microformats process for whatever reason, the MST (and I believe the AP, but I don't speak for them) would stop referring to it as a microformat. If changes proposed in this document are moved into hatom as suggested elsewhere on the list, or a news-specific microformat, we'd be very happy. However, we recognised that hatom is much more multi-purpose than the news industries requirements, and can well see that alot of our proposed work needs to sit outside the hatom specification. We're sorry if we've made it appear as though we're trying to do this unilaterally. We very much want to work with the microformats community on getting more machine-readable meaning into the news media, and I'll be attending the microformatsdevcamp this weekend in that spirit. On a related note, is all I need to do to attend that camp to add myself to the wiki and upcoming as attending ? As a side-note, we're looking for people (preferably based in the UK, potentially on a consultancy or permanent basis) to help us drive adoption of (both 'lower' and 'upper' case) semantic web technologies in the news media. I would love to hear from you off-list if you'd like to be involved. [1] : http://www.mediastandardstrust.com/projects/transparency.aspx [2] : http://newscredit.org/development/newscredit-specification/ [3] : http://newscredit.org/development/newscredit-specification/rel-principles-specification/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] AP News microformat?
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Martin McEvoy wrote: > > Brian Suda wrote: >> >> http://www.mediastandardstrust.org/medianews/newsdetails.aspx?sid=46551 >> >> Has anyone heard about the APs attempt to make a microformat? Did i >> miss something or did they just go and do their own thing? >> > > I think they went out and did their own thing, the draft "hNews" microformat > is here: > > http://www.valueaddednews.org/technical/techspec > > It says it was published in August 2008. > > Best wishes > > Martin It's an overlay on hAtom, note the example. hentry entry-content, though they seem to have invented duplicates, like "dateline" ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] AP News microformat?
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Martin McEvoy wrote: > I think they went out and did their own thing, the draft "hNews" microformat > is here: > > http://www.valueaddednews.org/technical/techspec > > It says it was published in August 2008. I took a quick look around their site and the people seem to be reasonably clued up. They have some code [1] online which seems to make use of html5lib. Perhaps somebody should contact them and ask them kindly to bring their work across in order to avoid duplication of efforts? They could make some valuable contributions. [1] http://github.com/markng/newscredit_api/tree/master Best Regards, Charl ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] AP News microformat?
Brian Suda wrote: http://www.mediastandardstrust.org/medianews/newsdetails.aspx?sid=46551 Has anyone heard about the APs attempt to make a microformat? Did i miss something or did they just go and do their own thing? I think they went out and did their own thing, the draft "hNews" microformat is here: http://www.valueaddednews.org/technical/techspec It says it was published in August 2008. Best wishes Martin ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] AP News microformat?
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Brian Suda wrote: > Has anyone heard about the APs attempt to make a microformat? Did i > miss something or did they just go and do their own thing? Strange that none of them joined the list and posted about this already. Perhaps they have their own internal standardisation procedures and got caught up in that. Taking a look at what the new microformat is supposed to do, it seems like their needs can very easily be accommodated using the existing microformats or a combination of them (rel-license, rel-tag, adr, geo, hAtom, hMedia, etc). If they need to create a new one, it should be reasonably easy. Best Regards, Charl ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
