Re: frequently wifi athn device timeout

2015-04-11 Thread Henrique Lengler
On Wed, Apr 08, 2015 at 01:17:01PM +0200, Stefan Sperling wrote:
 On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 03:36:03PM -0300, Henrique Lengler wrote:
  My intenert falled again, but with this option I didn't received device
  timeout, I received this:
 
 Hi Henrique,
 
 The output you sent shows things are working fine, it doesn't
 show any problem. So we're still at square 1 with this issue.
 
 Can somebody please try to provide a recipe that triggers the problem
 reliably?
 
 Note that a device timeout implies the device has failed to send a frame.
 This could happen because:
 
  - there is some transmission problem with the device itself
  - some USB problem is preventing transmission
  - some USB problem is preventing notification of successfull
transmission to the driver
  - the AP failed to ACK the frame, either because it did not receive
it (out of range, interference, ...) or because the athn device
could not receive the ACK from the AP
 
 Without more information it's difficult to say what's going on.
 
 If you're in a position to run tcpdump -y IEEE802_11_RADIO on the AP
 please watch for frames sent from the USB device and try to figure out
 where the frame is lost.
 
 Please also see http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-miscm=141501277608157w=2
 which is about the same driver on PCI instead of USB.
 
 As long as running 'ifconfig athn0 down up' restores connectivity on USB
 I have more important issues to look at and won't spend more of my time
 trying to reproduce this problem unless more information is provided.

So I said I am receiving less timeouts, thats true.
But yesterday and today again something happened, that could not be
solved by simply running 'ifconfig athn0 down up'.

This is what I received (messages from dmesg).

athn0: device timeout
athn0: device timeout
athn0: device timeout
athn0: device timeout
athn0: firmware command 0x17 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x18 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x3 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x17 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x17 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x18 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x17 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x17 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x18 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x17 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x17 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x18 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x17 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x17 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x18 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x17 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x17 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x18 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x17 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x17 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x18 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x17 timed out
athn0: firmware command 0x17 timed out

The four first messages are normal, and can be solved by reseting
connections. But a new type appeared, and these I couldn't solve running
ifconfig.
When I ran 'ifconfig athn0 down up' it didn't anything, and  I wasn't
able to close the process. Reboot was the only option.

I ran this (don't know if it gives good information):

# tcpdump -L
tcpdump: WARNING: snaplen raised from 116 to 160
tcnk type supported:
PFLOG
# tcpdump -y PFLOG
tcpdump: WARNING: snaplen raised from 116 to 160
tcpdump: listening on pflog0, link-type PFLOG
pdump: WARNING: snaplen raised from 116 to 160

-- 
Regards

Henrique Lengler 



Re: Following -stable, sources downloaded from mirror

2015-04-11 Thread dan mclaughlin
On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 10:27:19 +0200 Johan Mellberg johan.mellb...@gmail.com 
wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I want to start following -stable so I have read
 http://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html and
 http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#BldGetSrc as well as looking through
 the mailing list archives
 ​ for cvs from preloaded source​
 .
 
 I thought that I'd preload the sources so downloaded all of sys, src, ports
 and xenocara and put them in /usr as per instructions.
 
 No problem, but I am left with one unclear issue
 ​ (complete cvs noob). On http://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html
 ​ ​
 it says
 
 NOTE: If you are updating a source tree that you initially fetched from a
 different server, or from a CD, you must add the -d [cvsroot] option to cvs.
 
 # cd /usr/src
 # cvs -d anon...@anoncvs.ca.openbsd.org:/cvs -q up -Pd
 
 ​I do not understand what version I then end up with, because on ​
 http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#BldGetSrc
 ​ and above the quoted section it says to add -rOPENBSD_5_6 to get -stable
 (for 5.6) when checking out from scratch. But I am not sure since​ this is
 the only example for updating preloaded files. IF I run that there is
 updating of course, but there's no Tag that tells me if it is HEAD or
 whatever. If I add -rOPENBSD_5_6 I get the Tag file of course but what
 version do I get without it?!? And how should I update the next time?
 
 Thanks/Johan
 

the version you get without any tag is -current, the latest version, lagging
by only a few hours at most from what the devs commit, depending on the
server.



Following -stable, sources downloaded from mirror

2015-04-11 Thread Johan Mellberg
Hi,

I want to start following -stable so I have read
http://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html and
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#BldGetSrc as well as looking through
the mailing list archives
​ for cvs from preloaded source​
.

I thought that I'd preload the sources so downloaded all of sys, src, ports
and xenocara and put them in /usr as per instructions.

No problem, but I am left with one unclear issue
​ (complete cvs noob). On http://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html
​ ​
it says

NOTE: If you are updating a source tree that you initially fetched from a
different server, or from a CD, you must add the -d [cvsroot] option to cvs.

# cd /usr/src
# cvs -d anon...@anoncvs.ca.openbsd.org:/cvs -q up -Pd

​I do not understand what version I then end up with, because on ​
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#BldGetSrc
​ and above the quoted section it says to add -rOPENBSD_5_6 to get -stable
(for 5.6) when checking out from scratch. But I am not sure since​ this is
the only example for updating preloaded files. IF I run that there is
updating of course, but there's no Tag that tells me if it is HEAD or
whatever. If I add -rOPENBSD_5_6 I get the Tag file of course but what
version do I get without it?!? And how should I update the next time?

Thanks/Johan



Re: IPSec and Cisco peers

2015-04-11 Thread jean-yves boisiaud
hello,

I applied the following patch :

http://packetmischief.ca/files/openbsd/patches/isakmpd-nat-t-encap-mode.diff

found in this post :

http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.os.openbsd.misc/213771

Thanks four your help.

2015-04-09 22:39 GMT+02:00 Stuart Henderson s...@spacehopper.org:
 On 2015-04-08, David Dahlberg david.dahlb...@fkie.fraunhofer.de wrote:
 What I finally did was simply to enable DPD by default in isakmpd.conf
 (you want to have it always on anyways).

 Note that you can have an isakmpd.conf with only needed settings, and
 continue to configure sessions with ipsecctl/ipsec.conf.




-- 
Jean-Yves Boisiaud - Alcor Consulting
24, rue de la Glycine
49250 Saint Remy la Varenne
mobile : +33 6 63 71 73 46  fixe : +33 9 72 41 19 35



Following -stable, preloaded src

2015-04-11 Thread Johan Mellberg
Hi,

I want to start following -stable so I have read
http://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html and
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#BldGetSrc as well as looking
through the mailing list archives​ for cvs from preloaded source​.

I thought that I'd preload the sources so downloaded all of sys, src,
ports and xenocara and put them in /usr as per instructions.

No problem, but I am left with one unclear issue​ (I am a complete cvs
noob). On http://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html it says.

NOTE: If you are updating a source tree that you initially fetched from
a different server, or from a CD, you must add the -d [cvsroot] option
to cvs.

# cd /usr/src
# cvs -d anon...@anoncvs.ca.openbsd.org:/cvs -q up -Pd

​I do not understand what version I then end up with, because on ​
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#BldGetSrc​ and above the quoted
section it says to add -rOPENBSD_5_6 to get -stable (for 5.6) when
checking out from scratch. But I am not sure since​ this is the only
example for updating preloaded files. IF I run that there is updating of
course, but there's no Tag that tells me if it is HEAD or whatever. If
I add -rOPENBSD_5_6 I get the Tag file of course but what version do I
get without it?!? And how should I update the next time?

Thanks/Johan



Re: .kshrc Definitions under X

2015-04-11 Thread Eckehard Berns
On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 09:03:26PM -0300, Henrique Lengler wrote:
 On Sun, Apr 05, 2015 at 09:22:03PM -0700, Philip Guenther wrote:
  If you start X with xdm, then you need to either
  A) manually set ENV (or source your entire .profile) from your
  .xsession that xdm invokes, OR
  B) tell xterm to start the shell inside it as a login shell, so that
  *that* will read your .profile.  This can be done by either:
 B1) start xterm with the -ls option, or
 B2) set *loginShell: true in your X resource database (c.f. 
  xrdb(1))
  [...]
 
 I know that xterm isn't being started with -ls option and it solve thw
 problem.
 
 But this couldn't be normal, is it? Because my intention is not to use
 only xterm but also others term. emulators like st, and I would like to have
 they working as it does in any other system.
 If this is normal, will I need to configure and make sure that every
 term. emulator I'm using is loading .profile.

ksh is a bit special in the part that it won't read any startup
file unless it is started as a login shell or it sees the ENV
environment variable. (ksh has its reasons for this behavior.)

What I'm doing is a variant of option A above. I use .xinitrc as
my main startup file for X. Since xdm starts .xsession instead I
simply have the line

exec /bin/ksh -l ~/.xinitrc

in it. That telles ksh to run .xinitrc as a login shell and thus
sources .profile first. That way ENV is set properly and every
terminal should work as expected. Starting X with startx also is
working properly since it inherits the ENV variable from my console
login.

-- 
Eckehard Berns



Re: Following -stable, sources downloaded from mirror

2015-04-11 Thread dan mclaughlin
On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 11:59:14 +0200 Johan Mellberg johan.mellb...@gmail.com 
wrote:
 dan mclaughlin skrev den 2015-04-11 10:55:
  On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 10:27:19 +0200 Johan Mellberg 
  johan.mellb...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi,
 
  I want to start following -stable so I have read
  http://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html and
  http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#BldGetSrc as well as looking through
  the mailing list archives
  ​ for cvs from preloaded source​
  .
 
  I thought that I'd preload the sources so downloaded all of sys, src, ports
  and xenocara and put them in /usr as per instructions.
 
  No problem, but I am left with one unclear issue
  ​ (complete cvs noob). On http://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html
  ​ ​
  it says
 
  NOTE: If you are updating a source tree that you initially fetched from a
  different server, or from a CD, you must add the -d [cvsroot] option to 
  cvs.
 
  # cd /usr/src
  # cvs -d anon...@anoncvs.ca.openbsd.org:/cvs -q up -Pd
 
  ​I do not understand what version I then end up with, because on ​
  http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#BldGetSrc
  ​ and above the quoted section it says to add -rOPENBSD_5_6 to get 
  -stable
  (for 5.6) when checking out from scratch. But I am not sure since​ this 
  is
  the only example for updating preloaded files. IF I run that there is
  updating of course, but there's no Tag that tells me if it is HEAD or
  whatever. If I add -rOPENBSD_5_6 I get the Tag file of course but what
  version do I get without it?!? And how should I update the next time?
 
  Thanks/Johan
 
  
  the version you get without any tag is -current, the latest version, lagging
  by only a few hours at most from what the devs commit, depending on the
  server.
  
 Ah, thanks! I suspected that, but as I said was not sure. I'll add the
 -rversion from now on. Would it perhaps be something to add to the web
 page then, in the interest of absolute clarity?
 
 Also, if I have updated to  -current as per above what is the result if
 I rerun the update, but with the tag? I have tried it and while I do get
 the Tag file (saying TOPENBSD_5_6) I again do not quite understand
 what I should expect in that case.
 

really not sure what would happen, never used the tags myself (i just run
-current). to be on the safe side though, you could just grab the src.tar.gz
for 5.6 as a starting point and run the update again with the stable tag.



Re: my experience with openbsdstore.com

2015-04-11 Thread Bernd Schoeller

On 11/04/15 14:01, IMAP List Administration wrote:

Transfer Costs More Than Refund

The next missive from openbsdstore.com was:

Hopefully you should have received the €15 sent by post - unfortunately we had
to send it in this way, as our bank wanted to charge us €20 to send it to you
electronically!

This can't be happening And in fact an envelope containing a 10 and a 5 euro
note arrived somewhat later.


As a little defence to the OpenBSD store guys: the banking system in the 
UK is by far the crappiest I have seen in whole of Europe. The banks are 
all intentionally incompetent and try to fool and trick you into using 
non-SEPA style money transfers wherever they can.


Most UK citizens, even online shops, are misinformed and mistreated by 
their banks, with the result that the banks can charge horrendous fees 
and cheat on exchange rates.


A little funny experience: my online banking system from HSBC shuts 
down accepting SEPA money transfers outside of regular business hours. 
I have to wait until Monday morning to _enter_ a SEPA money transfer. It 
looks like their CPUs get the weekend off. That is how crappy the UK 
banking system is. And the most scary thing: the people here think this 
is normal ...


Bernd



Re: my experience with openbsdstore.com

2015-04-11 Thread Martin Schröder
2015-04-11 17:08 GMT+02:00 Bernd Schoeller ber...@fams.de:
 As a little defence to the OpenBSD store guys: the banking system in the UK
 is by far the crappiest I have seen in whole of Europe. The banks are all

Small wonder since Airstrip One seems to believe it's not in Europe.

Maybe the OpenBSD store should move to Europe proper.

Best
   Martin



Re: headless glass console looses colours on reboot

2015-04-11 Thread Craig Skinner
On 2015-04-10 Fri 14:12 PM |, Craig Skinner wrote:
 
 2 x i386 boxes, each with 2 serial cables cross connected from com1 to
 com0 on his neighbour. Normally used without monitor, nor keyboard.
 
 When ssh'ing, colours work fine (man pages, vim, mutt, lynx, etc.)
 
 After connecting a spare VGA CRT monitor  logging in locally, there
 were no colours. But when I rebooted with the monitor  keyboard
 connected, colours were back.
 
 When I connect the monitor  keyboard to the other box  reboot over the
 serial line, then replug the monitor back into the origianl box, colours
 are gone, until I reboot it with the monitor connected (even though the
 boot output is over com0 to the other machine).
 


 
 $ grep -v ^# /etc/wsconsctl.conf
 keyboard.encoding=uk  # Use United Kingdom keyboard encoding
 display.vblank=on # Enable vertical sync blank for screen burner
 display.screen_off=30 # Set screen burner timeout to 5 minutes
 display.msact=off # Disable screen unburn with mouse
 display.kbdact=on # Restore screen on keyboard input
 display.outact=off# Restore screen on display output
 

 
 Any ideas on how to have console colours when connecting a monitor after
 booting?
 

Would changing any of these help?

$ sudo wsconsctl | fgrep display
display.type=vga-pci
display.emulations=vt100
display.screentypes=80x25,80x25bf,80x40,80x40bf,80x50,80x50bf
display.focus=3
display.screen_on=250
display.screen_off=30
display.vblank=on
display.kbdact=on
display.msact=off
display.outact=off


-- 
Time is nature's way of making sure that everything doesn't happen at
once.



Re: .kshrc Definitions under X

2015-04-11 Thread Henrique Lengler
On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 10:24:47AM +0200, Eckehard Berns wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 09:03:26PM -0300, Henrique Lengler wrote:
  On Sun, Apr 05, 2015 at 09:22:03PM -0700, Philip Guenther wrote:
   If you start X with xdm, then you need to either
   A) manually set ENV (or source your entire .profile) from your
   .xsession that xdm invokes, OR
   B) tell xterm to start the shell inside it as a login shell, so 
   that
   *that* will read your .profile.  This can be done by either:
  B1) start xterm with the -ls option, or
  B2) set *loginShell: true in your X resource database (c.f. 
   xrdb(1))
   [...]
  
  I know that xterm isn't being started with -ls option and it solve thw
  problem.
  
  But this couldn't be normal, is it? Because my intention is not to use
  only xterm but also others term. emulators like st, and I would like to have
  they working as it does in any other system.
  If this is normal, will I need to configure and make sure that every
  term. emulator I'm using is loading .profile.
 
 ksh is a bit special in the part that it won't read any startup
 file unless it is started as a login shell or it sees the ENV
 environment variable. (ksh has its reasons for this behavior.)
 
 What I'm doing is a variant of option A above. I use .xinitrc as
 my main startup file for X. Since xdm starts .xsession instead I
 simply have the line
 
 exec /bin/ksh -l ~/.xinitrc
 
 in it. That telles ksh to run .xinitrc as a login shell and thus
 sources .profile first. That way ENV is set properly and every
 terminal should work as expected. Starting X with startx also is
 working properly since it inherits the ENV variable from my console
 login.

So it is working now. I don't know what was the problem.
It started to work today when I turned on my computer, this is strange.
I thought that only pressing Control-D until I logout and then login
again would apply and load new settings.

Now it is working and I have a normal setup:

$ cat .kshrc
alias ls='ls -p'
alias clr=clear
alias p='ps -l'
alias df='df -h'

$ cat .profile
export ENV=$HOME/.kshrc
export LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8
export GOPATH=$HOME/go
PATH=$PATH:$HOME/Scripts

And looks like there is no need to 'XTerm*loginShell: true' on
.Xdefaults.

I hope it will stay working.
-- 
Regards

Henrique Lengler 



Re: Following -stable, sources downloaded from mirror

2015-04-11 Thread Johan Mellberg
dan mclaughlin skrev den 2015-04-11 10:55:
 On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 10:27:19 +0200 Johan Mellberg johan.mellb...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 Hi,

 I want to start following -stable so I have read
 http://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html and
 http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#BldGetSrc as well as looking through
 the mailing list archives
 ​ for cvs from preloaded source​
 .

 I thought that I'd preload the sources so downloaded all of sys, src, ports
 and xenocara and put them in /usr as per instructions.

 No problem, but I am left with one unclear issue
 ​ (complete cvs noob). On http://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html
 ​ ​
 it says

 NOTE: If you are updating a source tree that you initially fetched from a
 different server, or from a CD, you must add the -d [cvsroot] option to cvs.

 # cd /usr/src
 # cvs -d anon...@anoncvs.ca.openbsd.org:/cvs -q up -Pd

 ​I do not understand what version I then end up with, because on ​
 http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#BldGetSrc
 ​ and above the quoted section it says to add -rOPENBSD_5_6 to get -stable
 (for 5.6) when checking out from scratch. But I am not sure since​ this is
 the only example for updating preloaded files. IF I run that there is
 updating of course, but there's no Tag that tells me if it is HEAD or
 whatever. If I add -rOPENBSD_5_6 I get the Tag file of course but what
 version do I get without it?!? And how should I update the next time?

 Thanks/Johan

 
 the version you get without any tag is -current, the latest version, lagging
 by only a few hours at most from what the devs commit, depending on the
 server.
 
Ah, thanks! I suspected that, but as I said was not sure. I'll add the
-rversion from now on. Would it perhaps be something to add to the web
page then, in the interest of absolute clarity?

Also, if I have updated to  -current as per above what is the result if
I rerun the update, but with the tag? I have tried it and while I do get
the Tag file (saying TOPENBSD_5_6) I again do not quite understand
what I should expect in that case.



Re: my experience with openbsdstore.com

2015-04-11 Thread Gareth Nelson
Can openbsdstore start taking bitcoin?

---
“Lanie, I’m going to print more printers. Lots more printers. One for
everyone. That’s worth going to jail for. That’s worth anything.” -
Printcrime by Cory Doctrow

Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Bernd Schoeller ber...@fams.de wrote:

 On 11/04/15 14:01, IMAP List Administration wrote:

 Transfer Costs More Than Refund
 
 The next missive from openbsdstore.com was:

 Hopefully you should have received the €15 sent by post -
 unfortunately we had
 to send it in this way, as our bank wanted to charge us €20 to send
it
 to you
 electronically!

 This can't be happening And in fact an envelope containing a 10 and a
 5 euro
 note arrived somewhat later.


 As a little defence to the OpenBSD store guys: the banking system in the
 UK is by far the crappiest I have seen in whole of Europe. The banks are
 all intentionally incompetent and try to fool and trick you into using
 non-SEPA style money transfers wherever they can.

 Most UK citizens, even online shops, are misinformed and mistreated by
 their banks, with the result that the banks can charge horrendous fees and
 cheat on exchange rates.

 A little funny experience: my online banking system from HSBC shuts down
 accepting SEPA money transfers outside of regular business hours. I have
 to wait until Monday morning to _enter_ a SEPA money transfer. It looks
 like their CPUs get the weekend off. That is how crappy the UK banking
 system is. And the most scary thing: the people here think this is normal
 ...

 Bernd



Re: Following -stable, sources downloaded from mirror

2015-04-11 Thread Johan Mellberg
dan mclaughlin skrev den 2015-04-11 12:16:
 On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 11:59:14 +0200 Johan Mellberg johan.mellb...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 dan mclaughlin skrev den 2015-04-11 10:55:
 On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 10:27:19 +0200 Johan Mellberg 
 johan.mellb...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,

 I want to start following -stable so I have read
 http://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html and
 http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#BldGetSrc as well as looking through
 the mailing list archives
 ​ for cvs from preloaded source​
 .

 I thought that I'd preload the sources so downloaded all of sys, src, ports
 and xenocara and put them in /usr as per instructions.

 No problem, but I am left with one unclear issue
 ​ (complete cvs noob). On http://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html
 ​ ​
 it says

 NOTE: If you are updating a source tree that you initially fetched from a
 different server, or from a CD, you must add the -d [cvsroot] option to 
 cvs.

 # cd /usr/src
 # cvs -d anon...@anoncvs.ca.openbsd.org:/cvs -q up -Pd

 ​I do not understand what version I then end up with, because on ​
 http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#BldGetSrc
 ​ and above the quoted section it says to add -rOPENBSD_5_6 to get 
 -stable
 (for 5.6) when checking out from scratch. But I am not sure since​ this 
 is
 the only example for updating preloaded files. IF I run that there is
 updating of course, but there's no Tag that tells me if it is HEAD or
 whatever. If I add -rOPENBSD_5_6 I get the Tag file of course but what
 version do I get without it?!? And how should I update the next time?

 Thanks/Johan


 the version you get without any tag is -current, the latest version, lagging
 by only a few hours at most from what the devs commit, depending on the
 server.

 Ah, thanks! I suspected that, but as I said was not sure. I'll add the
 -rversion from now on. Would it perhaps be something to add to the web
 page then, in the interest of absolute clarity?

 Also, if I have updated to  -current as per above what is the result if
 I rerun the update, but with the tag? I have tried it and while I do get
 the Tag file (saying TOPENBSD_5_6) I again do not quite understand
 what I should expect in that case.

 
 really not sure what would happen, never used the tags myself (i just run
 -current). to be on the safe side though, you could just grab the src.tar.gz
 for 5.6 as a starting point and run the update again with the stable tag.
 
Yup, that is what I'll do, I was just curious. Thanks!
/Johan



my experience with openbsdstore.com

2015-04-11 Thread IMAP List Administration
Hello,

the following describes my experience ordering CDs from the openbsdstore.com.

As openbsdstore.com is apparently the only source for OpenBSD CDs these days, I
ordered two sets of v5.6 a while ago (December 2014).

The order

The trouble began immediately. I chose electronic wire transfer as the payment
method, but even though I had supplied my VAT-ID and indicated that I wished to
avoid paying VAT, there total included VAT and there was no way to remove it.

I figured it was simpler to order and ask to have the VAT transferred back. I
ordered, and sent a corresponding request.

The Ticketing System

The store opened a ticket on my behalf (at least there *is* a ticketing system),
and I began to receive emails from the ticketing system. They mostly look like 
this:

 /Person's name/ just logged a message to a ticket in which you participate.

 [content of message]

 
 /You're getting this email because you are a collaborator on ticket #229757
 https://support.openbsdstore.com/view.php?auth=c1x2qaqaabxamaaa4o7EuU%2BmlBQAJA%3D%3D.
 To participate, simply reply to this email or click here
 https://support.openbsdstore.com/view.php?auth=c1x2qaqaabxamaaa4o7EuU%2BmlBQAJA%3D%3D
 for a complete archive of the ticket thread./

I cannot, however, participate by clicking on the link. The link is only for
internal use.  So the system can't differentiate between support staff and
customers


Bank Details

I am requested to provide bank details. Fair enough. I provide my IBAN (int'l
bank account number) and BIC/SWIFT (unique bank ID) details. These two items are
sufficient to transfer money *anywhere* within the EU (In fact, the IBAN alone
is sufficient, as it contains the bank code). This is made possible by SEPA.
From wikipedia:
 The *Single Euro Payments Area* (*SEPA*) is a payment-integration initiative
 of the European Union http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union for
 simplification of bank transfers denominated in euro
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro. As of February 2014, SEPA consists of the
 28 EU member states, the 4 members of the EFTA
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Free_Trade_Association (Iceland,
 Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland), Monaco and San Marino
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marino

IBAN/BIC Not Enough

The response is:
 I'm very sorry but our bank require your bank's address...
That the bank demands my bank's address is pure rubbish.


Transfer Costs More Than Refund

The next missive from openbsdstore.com was:
 Hopefully you should have received the €15 sent by post - unfortunately we 
 had
 to send it in this way, as our bank wanted to charge us €20 to send it to 
 you
 electronically!
This can't be happening And in fact an envelope containing a 10 and a 5 euro
note arrived somewhat later.

Maybe OpenBSD should look for a European partner that can tell its bank what to
do, instead of the other way round?

Rob Urban



Re: my experience with openbsdstore.com

2015-04-11 Thread Stuart Henderson
On 2015-04-11, IMAP List Administration li...@y42.org wrote:
 I am requested to provide bank details. Fair enough. I provide my IBAN (int'l
 bank account number) and BIC/SWIFT (unique bank ID) details. These two items 
 are
 sufficient to transfer money *anywhere* within the EU (In fact, the IBAN alone
 is sufficient, as it contains the bank code). This is made possible by SEPA.

Money? No, SEPA is more specific, it is for Euros. The UK is in SEPA
but SEPA isn't used for transactions in Pounds Sterling. So it depends
on the currency donomination of the receiving account as to whether it
applies.