Re: Bluetooth support status
On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 10:40 AM Theo de Raadt wrote: > Wow, look -- more useless chatter on the topic. > > The bt stack we had was designed as "network code", and all sorts of > complex layer violations and device hand-offs were very complicated and > troublesome. > > The code was not deleted because bluetooth is shit. The code was > deleted *because it was shitty and unsuited to the purpose* > > And then noone stepped up to write new code. THAT IS THE WHOLE STORY. > > People on misc often want some complicated conspiracy, and fails to > understand it is ALWAYS that "someone has to write the code and maintain > it", and if such a person doesn't exist then either (a) the code doesn't > exist, or (b) the code sucks and people complain about it until (c) we > delete it and then (d) people on misc try to invent fake history. > > Since no such person existed, (a) led to (c) and here we are at (d). > > I wish everyone would stop making uneducated guesses and trying to > rewrite history that isn't STUDIED and understand. In particular what > bothers me is the LACK OF STUDY, but this is misc, STUDYING stuff is > clearly too hard, and making uneducated guesses is the norm. > Might find following from "Axis of Easy #109" by Mark E. Jeftovic of easyDNS: Major bluetooth security flaw discovered. Researchers at the Center for IT-Security, Privacy and Accountability (CISPA) have discovered a major new vulnerability in the 20+ year-old Bluetooth protocol. The “Key Negotiation of Bluetooth”, aka “KNOB” attack lets attackers, without any prior knowledge of details of either side of the conversation, trick two endpoints in a Bluetooth handshake into using an encryption key that can then be brute-forced (I think they do this by tricking each side into using a 1-byte encryption key). Of course, once the key is cracked the attacker has access to all communications on the Bluetooth channel. The Bluetooth spec is being upgraded to specify longer encryption keys, and users are urged to remain current with all manufacturer updates. Read: https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/08/15/critical-new-bluetooth-security-issue-leaves-your-devices-and-data-open-to-attack/ And: https://knobattack.com/ And if your "manufacturer" has EOLed your product, you're SOOL. --patrick > John Brahy wrote: > > > Right, without reading the code and only reading this commit message > it's all conjecture. > > I was just hoping to hear something more if someone was inclined to > share. > > inclined. The commit message seems like some sort of inside joke. > > > > Log message: > > "It's not the years, honey; it's the mileage." > > > > bluetooth support doesn't work and isn't going anywhere. the current > > design is a dead end, and should not be the basis for any future support. > > general consensus says to whack it so as to not mislead the unwary. > > > > On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 10:06 AM Theo de Raadt > wrote: > > > > Bryan Wright wrote: > > > > > Are there technical/philosophical problems that make all versions of > > > Bluetooth incompatible with the project, or is it a just matter of > > > removing what is not being maintained? > > > > I'm sure a bunch of you can come up with theories about what actually > > transpired, without reading any of the code that used to be here, or > > the commit messages. > > > > Basically, feel free to keep making up stuff. > > > >
Re: Bluetooth support status
Ha. I was about to start out with how I can guess how complicated managing an operating system is. Then I see the last line of your email saying, "How about if you don't know, stop making guesses". My comments only apply to my experience coding for bluetooth on mobile devices and it was just overcomplicated for me and I felt it was opening up an unnecessary attack surface. That opinion has nothing to do with OpenBSD. Just writing this here in case someone tries to use this in a future conversation. On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 10:22 AM Theo de Raadt wrote: > Bryan Wright wrote: > > > > On Aug 7, 2019, at 10:06, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > > > > > Bryan Wright wrote: > > > > > >> Are there technical/philosophical problems that make all versions of > > >> Bluetooth incompatible with the project, or is it a just matter of > > >> removing what is not being maintained? > > > > > > I'm sure a bunch of you can come up with theories about what actually > > > transpired, without reading any of the code that used to be here, or > > > the commit messages. > > > > > > Basically, feel free to keep making up stuff. > > > > > > > I’m sorry, Theo. I’ve read some, but I’m sure I haven’t read all the > history. I didn’t mean anything by my question, but perhaps I should have > done more reading before asking. Apologies. > > Beyond the commit messages, none of us owes anyone any sort of explanation, > no matter how much it is begged for. > > What bothers me greatly is the begging pattern of introducing fake > theories, and a year or so later those fake theories are used as part of > the evidence chain in a new discussion, and another few years later even > more fake discussion is used to create new fake discussion, and > eventually everyone believes parts of it. > > How about if you don't know, stop making up guesses. > > >
Re: Bluetooth support status
Bryan Wright wrote: > > On Aug 7, 2019, at 10:06, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > > > Bryan Wright wrote: > > > >> Are there technical/philosophical problems that make all versions of > >> Bluetooth incompatible with the project, or is it a just matter of > >> removing what is not being maintained? > > > > I'm sure a bunch of you can come up with theories about what actually > > transpired, without reading any of the code that used to be here, or > > the commit messages. > > > > Basically, feel free to keep making up stuff. > > > > I’m sorry, Theo. I’ve read some, but I’m sure I haven’t read all the > history. I didn’t mean anything by my question, but perhaps I should have > done more reading before asking. Apologies. Beyond the commit messages, none of us owes anyone any sort of explanation, no matter how much it is begged for. What bothers me greatly is the begging pattern of introducing fake theories, and a year or so later those fake theories are used as part of the evidence chain in a new discussion, and another few years later even more fake discussion is used to create new fake discussion, and eventually everyone believes parts of it. How about if you don't know, stop making up guesses.
Re: Bluetooth support status
Wow, look -- more useless chatter on the topic. The bt stack we had was designed as "network code", and all sorts of complex layer violations and device hand-offs were very complicated and troublesome. The code was not deleted because bluetooth is shit. The code was deleted *because it was shitty and unsuited to the purpose* And then noone stepped up to write new code. THAT IS THE WHOLE STORY. People on misc often want some complicated conspiracy, and fails to understand it is ALWAYS that "someone has to write the code and maintain it", and if such a person doesn't exist then either (a) the code doesn't exist, or (b) the code sucks and people complain about it until (c) we delete it and then (d) people on misc try to invent fake history. Since no such person existed, (a) led to (c) and here we are at (d). I wish everyone would stop making uneducated guesses and trying to rewrite history that isn't STUDIED and understand. In particular what bothers me is the LACK OF STUDY, but this is misc, STUDYING stuff is clearly too hard, and making uneducated guesses is the norm. John Brahy wrote: > Right, without reading the code and only reading this commit message it's all > conjecture. > I was just hoping to hear something more if someone was inclined to share. > inclined. The commit message seems like some sort of inside joke. > > Log message: > "It's not the years, honey; it's the mileage." > > bluetooth support doesn't work and isn't going anywhere. the current > design is a dead end, and should not be the basis for any future support. > general consensus says to whack it so as to not mislead the unwary. > > On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 10:06 AM Theo de Raadt wrote: > > Bryan Wright wrote: > > > Are there technical/philosophical problems that make all versions of > > Bluetooth incompatible with the project, or is it a just matter of > > removing what is not being maintained? > > I'm sure a bunch of you can come up with theories about what actually > transpired, without reading any of the code that used to be here, or > the commit messages. > > Basically, feel free to keep making up stuff. >
Re: Bluetooth support status
> On Aug 7, 2019, at 10:06, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > Bryan Wright wrote: > >> Are there technical/philosophical problems that make all versions of >> Bluetooth incompatible with the project, or is it a just matter of >> removing what is not being maintained? > > I'm sure a bunch of you can come up with theories about what actually > transpired, without reading any of the code that used to be here, or > the commit messages. > > Basically, feel free to keep making up stuff. > I’m sorry, Theo. I’ve read some, but I’m sure I haven’t read all the history. I didn’t mean anything by my question, but perhaps I should have done more reading before asking. Apologies.
Re: Bluetooth support status
Right, without reading the code and only reading this commit message it's all conjecture. I was just hoping to hear something more if someone was inclined to share. inclined. The commit message seems like some sort of inside joke. Log message: "It's not the years, honey; it's the mileage." bluetooth support doesn't work and isn't going anywhere. the current design is a dead end, and should not be the basis for any future support. general consensus says to whack it so as to not mislead the unwary. On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 10:06 AM Theo de Raadt wrote: > Bryan Wright wrote: > > > Are there technical/philosophical problems that make all versions of > > Bluetooth incompatible with the project, or is it a just matter of > > removing what is not being maintained? > > I'm sure a bunch of you can come up with theories about what actually > transpired, without reading any of the code that used to be here, or > the commit messages. > > Basically, feel free to keep making up stuff. > >
Re: Bluetooth support status
Bryan Wright wrote: > Are there technical/philosophical problems that make all versions of > Bluetooth incompatible with the project, or is it a just matter of > removing what is not being maintained? I'm sure a bunch of you can come up with theories about what actually transpired, without reading any of the code that used to be here, or the commit messages. Basically, feel free to keep making up stuff.
Re: Bluetooth support status
Are there technical/philosophical problems that make all versions of Bluetooth incompatible with the project, or is it a just matter of removing what is not being maintained?
Re: Bluetooth support status
ok, thanks. Bluetooth is overcomplicated and if it's not managed properly it just opens up the attack surface for no reason. It definitely makes some things easy but there are always workarounds. On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 11:52 PM Consus wrote: > On 17:12 Tue 06 Aug, John Brahy wrote: > > Hello, > > > > Just curious if there was any change in OpenBSD supporting bluetooth. > > Sadly, there is none. >
Re: Bluetooth support status
On 17:12 Tue 06 Aug, John Brahy wrote: > Hello, > > Just curious if there was any change in OpenBSD supporting bluetooth. Sadly, there is none.
Bluetooth support status
Hello, Just curious if there was any change in OpenBSD supporting bluetooth. In this commit from tedu@ it's saying that support was ripped out of the kernel because it never really worked. https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-cvs=140511572108715=2 man -k blue brings up nothing appros. Thanks, JB
Re: Bluetooth Support
On 10/31/18 9:42 AM, Marco Menne wrote: > Bluetooth I never liked. :-) Especially when the Bluetooth spec, specified ecdh without following the security requirements of must validate the curves as clearly laid out by GECC (guide to ECC). I guess Linux and some Intel products did the same or copied code. Unbelievable!
Re: Bluetooth Support
Thanks for your help, but this does not work. The Bluetooth keyboard is not recognized from the system. As I wrote before, I closed this issue and use an USB-keyboard. Bluetooth I never liked. :-) On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 07:36:40PM -0400, mar...@martinbrandenburg.com wrote: > > From s...@spacehopper.org Tue Oct 30 19:32:56 2018 > > To: misc@openbsd.org > > From: Stuart Henderson > > Subject: Re: Bluetooth Support > > Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 23:24:04 + (UTC) > > > > On 2018-10-30, Marco Menne wrote: > > > Hello there, > > > > > > I installed OpenBSD 6.4 on an old iMac from 2010 and nearly everything > > > works fine. The sound is cruel but this is a minor problem. > > > The Apple has a Bluetooth keyboard and I do not find a way to get it > > > working. I read in some forum that Bluetooth is not supported in OpenBSD. > > > Is this true? > > > I can use an USB-Keyboard, of course, but the Apple keyboard is fine and > > > it > > > would be a little bit sad, if I had to change to an usb one. > > > > > > Greetings, Marco > > > - - - > > > Marco Menne > > > marco.menn...@gmail.com > > > GnuPG-Public-Key: > > > https://keyserver.ubuntu.com/pks/lookup?op=get=0x96A01AB59F6F7ECF > > > > > > > AIUI the firmware on some Apples does actually present a Bluetooth > > keyboard as a standard keyboard, but I suspect this one will be too > > old for this and would need an OS that has its own Bluetooth support. > > > > > > Way back in 2012, I ran OpenBSD on a 2008 MacBook Pro with a Bluetooth > keyboard and it presented as USB and worked fine. > > I ran it for a while actually before I realized and had to ask myself > how in the world this even works. > > Marco, you can test this easily without installing simply by checking to > see if you can type at the bootloader prompt. > -- Marco Menne marco.menn...@gmail.com
Re: Bluetooth Support
> From s...@spacehopper.org Tue Oct 30 19:32:56 2018 > To: misc@openbsd.org > From: Stuart Henderson > Subject: Re: Bluetooth Support > Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 23:24:04 + (UTC) > > On 2018-10-30, Marco Menne wrote: > > Hello there, > > > > I installed OpenBSD 6.4 on an old iMac from 2010 and nearly everything > > works fine. The sound is cruel but this is a minor problem. > > The Apple has a Bluetooth keyboard and I do not find a way to get it > > working. I read in some forum that Bluetooth is not supported in OpenBSD. > > Is this true? > > I can use an USB-Keyboard, of course, but the Apple keyboard is fine and it > > would be a little bit sad, if I had to change to an usb one. > > > > Greetings, Marco > > - - - > > Marco Menne > > marco.menn...@gmail.com > > GnuPG-Public-Key: > > https://keyserver.ubuntu.com/pks/lookup?op=get=0x96A01AB59F6F7ECF > > > > AIUI the firmware on some Apples does actually present a Bluetooth > keyboard as a standard keyboard, but I suspect this one will be too > old for this and would need an OS that has its own Bluetooth support. > > Way back in 2012, I ran OpenBSD on a 2008 MacBook Pro with a Bluetooth keyboard and it presented as USB and worked fine. I ran it for a while actually before I realized and had to ask myself how in the world this even works. Marco, you can test this easily without installing simply by checking to see if you can type at the bootloader prompt.
Fwd: Bluetooth Support
-- Forwarded message - From: Marco Menne Date: Mi., 31. Okt. 2018 um 01:02 Uhr Subject: Re: Bluetooth Support To: That is true. It seems not to be a standart keyboard. One time I tried to connect it with my Android tablet, but without success. Some Linux distributions had also problems with it. But it works under Ubuntu and OpenSuse. It doesn't matter. I put it away and use another USB-Keyboard. Your answer saved me more time for searching. I will get rid of the Bluetooth keyboard and use my time for getting deeper into OpenBSD :-) . On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 11:24:04PM +, Stuart Henderson wrote: > On 2018-10-30, Marco Menne wrote: > > Hello there, > > > > I installed OpenBSD 6.4 on an old iMac from 2010 and nearly everything > > works fine. The sound is cruel but this is a minor problem. > > The Apple has a Bluetooth keyboard and I do not find a way to get it > > working. I read in some forum that Bluetooth is not supported in OpenBSD. > > Is this true? > > I can use an USB-Keyboard, of course, but the Apple keyboard is fine and it > > would be a little bit sad, if I had to change to an usb one. > > > > Greetings, Marco > > - - - > > Marco Menne > > marco.menn...@gmail.com > > GnuPG-Public-Key: > > https://keyserver.ubuntu.com/pks/lookup?op=get=0x96A01AB59F6F7ECF > > > > AIUI the firmware on some Apples does actually present a Bluetooth > keyboard as a standard keyboard, but I suspect this one will be too > old for this and would need an OS that has its own Bluetooth support. > > -- Marco Menne marco.menn...@gmail.com
Re: Bluetooth Support
On 2018-10-30, Marco Menne wrote: > Hello there, > > I installed OpenBSD 6.4 on an old iMac from 2010 and nearly everything > works fine. The sound is cruel but this is a minor problem. > The Apple has a Bluetooth keyboard and I do not find a way to get it > working. I read in some forum that Bluetooth is not supported in OpenBSD. > Is this true? > I can use an USB-Keyboard, of course, but the Apple keyboard is fine and it > would be a little bit sad, if I had to change to an usb one. > > Greetings, Marco > - - - > Marco Menne > marco.menn...@gmail.com > GnuPG-Public-Key: > https://keyserver.ubuntu.com/pks/lookup?op=get=0x96A01AB59F6F7ECF > AIUI the firmware on some Apples does actually present a Bluetooth keyboard as a standard keyboard, but I suspect this one will be too old for this and would need an OS that has its own Bluetooth support.
Re: Bluetooth Support
Okay, thank you for these detailed answer. Now, I do not need to search for further information. Marco - - - Marco Menne marco.menn...@gmail.com GnuPG-Public-Key: https://keyserver.ubuntu.com/pks/lookup?op=get=0x96A01AB59F6F7ECF Am Di., 30. Okt. 2018 um 21:27 Uhr schrieb Chris Narkiewicz < he...@ezaquarii.com>: > W dniu 30/10/2018 o 20:07, Marco Menne pisze: > > I read in some forum that Bluetooth is not supported in OpenBSD. > > Is this true? > > It was, but bt was removed. > > http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/sys/netbt/Attic/bluetooth.h > > Revision 1.7, Fri Jul 11 21:54:38 2014 UTC (4 years, 3 months ago) by tedu > Branch: MAIN > CVS Tags: HEAD > Changes since 1.6: +1 -1 lines > FILE REMOVED > > "It's not the years, honey; it's the mileage." > > bluetooth support doesn't work and isn't going anywhere. the current > design is a dead end, and should not be the basis for any future support. > general consensus says to whack it so as to not mislead the unwary. > >
Re: Bluetooth Support
W dniu 30/10/2018 o 20:07, Marco Menne pisze: I read in some forum that Bluetooth is not supported in OpenBSD. Is this true? It was, but bt was removed. http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/sys/netbt/Attic/bluetooth.h Revision 1.7, Fri Jul 11 21:54:38 2014 UTC (4 years, 3 months ago) by tedu Branch: MAIN CVS Tags: HEAD Changes since 1.6: +1 -1 lines FILE REMOVED "It's not the years, honey; it's the mileage." bluetooth support doesn't work and isn't going anywhere. the current design is a dead end, and should not be the basis for any future support. general consensus says to whack it so as to not mislead the unwary.
Re: Bluetooth Support
On Tue 30 Oct 2018 9:07 PM, Marco Menne wrote: > Hello there, > > I installed OpenBSD 6.4 on an old iMac from 2010 and nearly everything > works fine. The sound is cruel but this is a minor problem. > The Apple has a Bluetooth keyboard and I do not find a way to get it > working. I read in some forum that Bluetooth is not supported in OpenBSD. > Is this true? > I can use an USB-Keyboard, of course, but the Apple keyboard is fine and it > would be a little bit sad, if I had to change to an usb one. If you want bluetooth support, you'll need to go all the way back to a completely unsupport release from May 2014 for release 5.5. All releases since then have not had bluetooth. > > Greetings, Marco > - - - > Marco Menne > marco.menn...@gmail.com > GnuPG-Public-Key: > https://keyserver.ubuntu.com/pks/lookup?op=get=0x96A01AB59F6F7ECF
Bluetooth Support
Hello there, I installed OpenBSD 6.4 on an old iMac from 2010 and nearly everything works fine. The sound is cruel but this is a minor problem. The Apple has a Bluetooth keyboard and I do not find a way to get it working. I read in some forum that Bluetooth is not supported in OpenBSD. Is this true? I can use an USB-Keyboard, of course, but the Apple keyboard is fine and it would be a little bit sad, if I had to change to an usb one. Greetings, Marco - - - Marco Menne marco.menn...@gmail.com GnuPG-Public-Key: https://keyserver.ubuntu.com/pks/lookup?op=get=0x96A01AB59F6F7ECF
Status of Bluetooth support?
I know Bluetooth support was pulled, but I was wondering if there was any new information about it being rekindled in some fashion. My primary interest is the bluetooth audio side. If there is or isn't I would be interested in helping to make it happen. Not sure I am the best person to code it, but testing, advocating, documenting, whatever. Anyway if someone is working on it, would like to know what I could do to help. If no one is, well I guess I gotta figure out how to help change that. Thanks, Ken
Re: Bluetooth Support
All bluetooth support was removed some releases ago. The code rotted. If someone wants to work on this again, they are welcome to. On 2015 Jul 23 (Thu) at 10:02:55 -0400 (-0400), Richard E. Thornton wrote: :I am just curious - is Bluetooth supported on any bluetooth enabled :computers? Or is this a dead topic? : : :Richard : -- A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral. -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Bluetooth Support
I am just curious - is Bluetooth supported on any bluetooth enabled computers? Or is this a dead topic? Richard
