Re: Install Woes (3.7/sparc) - Spontaneous crashes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 J.C. Roberts wrote: On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 15:18:40 -0400, Jim Fron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 7, 2005, at 2:46 PM, J.C. Roberts wrote: Floppy drives and diskettes are notorious for failing in very strange and unusual ways. Check out the mild but insightful message from Art on tech@ if you want to know the general consensus on floppies. That's good to know. Unfortunately, most of my machines (mac) don't have serial ports. At times I wonder if Apple not supporting serial is smart or dumb but I never seem to come to a conclusion... A USB to serial device may do the trick but personally, I've never tried it. I've used the iogear usb serial adapter with my powerbook, a sparcstation 5, minicom from darwinports and a null modem cable and it worked fine. iD8DBQFC94IglH10NsAbJ7ERAtT6AJ9ybLXdLe9ee6xFqBE6m6bFngsazgCdG04B 3bY14tyU2IbM29IbMWS0Nt4= =/HXo -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Install Woes (3.7/sparc) - Spontaneous crashes
John Broome writes: I've used the iogear usb serial adapter with my powerbook, a sparcstation 5, minicom from darwinports and a null modem cable and it worked fine. One drawback to the IOGEAR is that (at least with the OSX driver), the serial dongle cannot transmit a break (STOP+A). I like to keep a couple of Sun Type 5 keyboards around, if only to be able to send a STOP+N when the PROM gets into a FUBAR state. Jim Fron writes: Probably. Well, one crap keyspan USB/serial device and one, possibly now two crap SS20's has taught me a lesson: for the money, it may be better to go out and but a cheap sh*t Wal-Mart PC instead of buying good hardware off eBay. A valuable (if expensive) lesson. Personally, I'd take a *good* SS20 over a consumer grade desktop PC, but would strongly recommend a more modern server grade Sparc over either of the cheap options, something like a Netra T1/105 (from eBay) or even a V100 ($1K new). Kevin Kadow
Install Woes (3.7/sparc) - Spontaneous crashes
I'm attempting to install OBSD 3.7 sparc on a Sparcstation 20. I've been through installs numerous times on 20's, 2's, and an IPC using previous OBSD versions. Currently, I only have one install method -- floppy. I could conceivably set up a netboot install or wrangle a CDR drive if need be. The problem is this: every time I attempt to install, I get part-way or all the way through the package download process, and the installer bombs, dumps hex to the screen, and drops back into OFW. I don't have serial console, either: I'm using a monitor and keyboard, so it's tough to say what, if any, error messages may be present. The more packages I attempt to install, the more likely it is to crash in the middle of download. If I reduce the packages to bsd and base37.tgz, I can often get as far as building nodes before the crash. This system seemed to happily run Solaris 7, booting all the way into CDE and running seeral apps at once without bombing, so I'm hesitant to start yanking RAM, but if that's the only thing suspect, I'll do it. So, my questions are: any ideas what could be causing this? The farthest I've gotten is a bootable system with no network, so the possibility of a partial-install with manual addition of the other packages seems questionable. Any suggestions for what I might do to get through a complete install? Thanks, JMF
Re: Install Woes (3.7/sparc) - Spontaneous crashes
On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 11:28:55 -0400, Jim Fron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm attempting to install OBSD 3.7 sparc on a Sparcstation 20. I've been through installs numerous times on 20's, 2's, and an IPC using previous OBSD versions. Currently, I only have one install method -- floppy. I could conceivably set up a netboot install or wrangle a CDR drive if need be. The problem is this: every time I attempt to install, I get part-way or all the way through the package download process, and the installer bombs, dumps hex to the screen, and drops back into OFW. I don't have serial console, either: I'm using a monitor and keyboard, so it's tough to say what, if any, error messages may be present. The more packages I attempt to install, the more likely it is to crash in the middle of download. If I reduce the packages to bsd and base37.tgz, I can often get as far as building nodes before the crash. This system seemed to happily run Solaris 7, booting all the way into CDE and running seeral apps at once without bombing, so I'm hesitant to start yanking RAM, but if that's the only thing suspect, I'll do it. So, my questions are: any ideas what could be causing this? The farthest I've gotten is a bootable system with no network, so the possibility of a partial-install with manual addition of the other packages seems questionable. Any suggestions for what I might do to get through a complete install? Thanks, JMF Floppy drives and diskettes are notorious for failing in very strange and unusual ways. Check out the mild but insightful message from Art on tech@ if you want to know the general consensus on floppies. From: Artur Grabowski art@ Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In your situation, setting up serial is worthwhile if for no other reason than posting debug info to the list. If you've got spare openbsd/unix machine with a free serial port and a null modem cable, you're good to go. Note, that's a *null*modem* cable, not a straight wired serial cable. On the spare machine use tip(8) Make sure you've got the needed entry in remote(5). unix9600|9600 Baud dial-out to another UNIX system:\ :el=^U^C^R^O^D^S^Q:ie=%$:oe=^D:tc=dial1200:\ :br=#9600:dv=/dev/tty00: Run tip % sudo tip unix9600 On your spare machine, you could also serve ftp for the install *.tgz files as well as dhcp and netboot images. On the problematic SS20, disconnect the keyboard and monitor since on some (most/all/?) sun systems if you boot with a keyboard attached, the system will use it. If the keyboard is not attached, it will default to serial console. Then power up the SS20. With any luck, you've just have a bad floppy diskette and the netboot/serial/ftp install will work just fine. If not, you've got the needed debug info to figure out the problem. JCR
Re: Install Woes (3.7/sparc) - Spontaneous crashes
On Aug 7, 2005, at 2:46 PM, J.C. Roberts wrote: Floppy drives and diskettes are notorious for failing in very strange and unusual ways. Check out the mild but insightful message from Art on tech@ if you want to know the general consensus on floppies. That's good to know. Unfortunately, most of my machines (mac) don't have serial ports. My other sparc box is the reason I'm trying to configure this one: it stopped responding to the serial port and keyboard, it displays only a blank white screen on the monitor, and the ethernet port that didn't have all inbound services pf-blocked died on me, so I can't ssh into it. It's my NAT/firewall, and, though I have no way of getting into or out of the box, it's still running, and I don't want to risk powering it down until I have a replacement configured. :-/ So, going with the idea that floppies are just unreliable, I seem to have three options: 1. Use the floppy to boot, exit the installer, and install and configure manually (it doesn't seem to crash when I ftp tarballs in, but crashes regularly when I use the installer to do it). Has anyone written a walk-through for doing this? 2. Figure out how to configure OSX (client) as a netboot server. 3. Buy an OBSD CD, unplug the SCSI CDR drive from the running firewall and hope it doesn't crash. I'm eyeing option #1 right now.
Re: Install Woes (3.7/sparc) - Spontaneous crashes
On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 15:18:40 -0400, Jim Fron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 7, 2005, at 2:46 PM, J.C. Roberts wrote: Floppy drives and diskettes are notorious for failing in very strange and unusual ways. Check out the mild but insightful message from Art on tech@ if you want to know the general consensus on floppies. That's good to know. Unfortunately, most of my machines (mac) don't have serial ports. At times I wonder if Apple not supporting serial is smart or dumb but I never seem to come to a conclusion... A USB to serial device may do the trick but personally, I've never tried it. My other sparc box is the reason I'm trying to configure this one: it stopped responding to the serial port and keyboard, it displays only a blank white screen on the monitor, and the ethernet port that didn't have all inbound services pf-blocked died on me, so I can't ssh into it. It's my NAT/firewall, and, though I have no way of getting into or out of the box, it's still running, and I don't want to risk powering it down until I have a replacement configured. :-/ So, going with the idea that floppies are just unreliable, I seem to have three options: 1. Use the floppy to boot, exit the installer, and install and configure manually (it doesn't seem to crash when I ftp tarballs in, but crashes regularly when I use the installer to do it). Has anyone written a walk-through for doing this? 2. Figure out how to configure OSX (client) as a netboot server. 3. Buy an OBSD CD, unplug the SCSI CDR drive from the running firewall and hope it doesn't crash. I'm eyeing option #1 right now. Hopefully you've tried redownloading and reimaging on a new floppy diskette. The diskette could be the problem but if the created floppy is passing the test in the OBSD Install FAQ, the only possibility left for floppy being the cause is a bad diskette drive in the SS20 (or the drive just has dirty heads). I don't have the bandwidth to mess around with multiple/repeated FTP installs from the internet. It takes too long, so I usually transfer the files once and then host the FTP locally. It makes installs a lot easier. Option #2 with a local FTP server might work but getting a serial console on the beast should be your goal. If you've got flaky hardware in the SS20, you don't want to use it as a replacement for your (currently failing) firewall. Serial is probably the best way to figure out what the heck is going wrong. Using your MacOS box with tip and a USB-serial converter might just work. JCR -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
Re: Install Woes (3.7/sparc) - Spontaneous crashes
Jim Fron wrote: I'm attempting to install OBSD 3.7 sparc on a Sparcstation 20. I've been through installs numerous times on 20's, 2's, and an IPC using previous OBSD versions. Currently, I only have one install method -- floppy. I could conceivably set up a netboot install or wrangle a CDR drive if need be. The problem is this: every time I attempt to install, I get part-way or all the way through the package download process, and the installer bombs, dumps hex to the screen, and drops back into OFW. I don't have serial console, either: I'm using a monitor and keyboard, so it's tough to say what, if any, error messages may be present. The more packages I attempt to install, the more likely it is to crash in the middle of download. If I reduce the packages to bsd and base37.tgz, I can often get as far as building nodes before the crash. This system seemed to happily run Solaris 7, booting all the way into CDE and running seeral apps at once without bombing, so I'm hesitant to start yanking RAM, but if that's the only thing suspect, I'll do it. Sounds like one of two things: either 1) No one has ever installed OpenBSD 3.7 on a SS20, and you have discovered that it really doesn't work. 2) Your computer is broke. While it may be argued that I am a no one, it isn't due to the fact that I have installed OpenBSD 3.7 on an SS20. Two SS20, in fact, testing both CDROM and floppy based installs. It isn't #1. Your computer is broke. Get troubleshooting. Your description sounds just like a memory problem, the more your install, the more memory the system uses. MAKEDEV uses a LOT of RAM. If another OS fails on the same hardware, you can be pretty sure it is bad hardware. If another OS is still working, it is at best a suggestion that it might NOT be hardware. As the system is fully booting the kernel, I don't think it is a floppy problem. Nick.
Re: Install Woes (3.7/sparc) - Spontaneous crashes
On Aug 7, 2005, at 4:23 PM, J.C. Roberts wrote:' At times I wonder if Apple not supporting serial is smart or dumb but I never seem to come to a conclusion... OT: I think it's dumb. But that's from the standpoint of someone who does more with computers than 95% of the population. I also thought it was dumb to dump standard SCSI, and dumb to drop OFW/PPC for, presumably, a PC BIOS that may or may not support nice features like mouse-driven FW, netboot, target disk mode, and their plethora of long-standing startup key combinations. But big companies don't make computers for people like me, they make them for people who live at the mall. A USB to serial device may do the trick but personally, I've never tried it. I have a half-broken one, but I'll have to get out the soldering iron and hack up some old cables to make a functional din-db25 null-modem cable if I have to. Hopefully you've tried redownloading and reimaging on a new floppy diskette. The 'sum is correct. It could be the floppy, or the fd. I've had bad floppy problems before. Walking through the install script manually, it seems to be crashing at MAKEDEV. When using the install script, it would sometimes crash at (probably) MAKEDEV, and sometimes during ftp. I think I probably will need that serial console. Perhaps I have a bad SCSI drive. I don't have the bandwidth to mess around with multiple/repeated FTP installs from the internet. It takes too long, so I usually transfer the files once and then host the FTP locally. It makes installs a lot easier. I've been doing that. Well, I did that, found that it crashed sooner in the process when I did, and then tried FTP to an external site. If increased speed is causing me problems, I'm thinking I may have a bad disk or main board. Fsck. If you've got flaky hardware in the SS20, you don't want to use it as a replacement for your (currently failing) firewall. Probably. Well, one crap keyspan USB/serial device and one, possibly now two crap SS20's has taught me a lesson: for the money, it may be better to go out and but a cheap sh*t Wal-Mart PC instead of buying good hardware off eBay.
Sparc QFE repeatable crashes [was: Install Woes (3.7/sparc) - Spontaneous crashes]
On Aug 7, 2005, at 4:42 PM, Nick Holland wrote: Your description sounds just like a memory problem, the more your install, the more memory the system uses. MAKEDEV uses a LOT of RAM. Well, I started by pulling out all the core, and swapping them in 2 at a time (2 @16Mb each). At first I was having issues with all combinations, and started to get worried. Then I stumbled on it: there was one sure thing I could do that would always crash the system: `ifconfig -a` I pulled out the qfe SBUS card, and it's stable as can be, with all core tested in pairs of 2, and with all 128Mb installed. I've added [EMAIL PROTECTED], as this may be platform-specific. Strange thing is, the card works. I used it under Solaris to transfer the 3.7 boot floppy image in. I used it with the boot floppy to grab all the files via FTP. The installation process would sometimes crash during FTP using the installer, but never if I escaped to shell and ran FTP manually. Also, the install process would fail at MAKEDEV, which I presume only uses the network if making network devices. Boot into the installed system, and I could ping the local IP. Sometimes I would get no route to host pinging another node on the subnet, and sometimes it would crash. `ifconfig =a` would always crash. I searched, and there are open qfe bugs for sparc64 (3928/sparc64, 3960/sparc64), but this is sun4m/SS20 sparc. There's (4218/kernel), but that just says not working. None of these reflect the severity (immediate drop into the debugger) I experienced. I also found this: http://archive.openbsd.nu/?ml=openbsd-sparca=2005-02t=659794 I've been trying for the last few days to build a router w/ a Sparc20 to get into our lab from our desks. The hardware on hand happens to be a Sparc20 w/ 1 le interface and a Quad card that are hme interfaces. From inside the box, I can ping the interface, but can't seem to ping anything outside of that. There are also a few entries in the dmesg that seem to indicate something more than my inability to pull my head out (thought I'm pretty sure that's the problem). ... If you comment out ukphy from your kernel and recompile it should start working. I have no problem with doing this, but I'd like a second opinion if possible. Is this the correct fix? Is this known, under the other bug reports? Thanks, JMF
