Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!
Hi, Lari Rasku wrote on Tue, Jan 09, 2018 at 09:58:04PM +0200: > (Surprising to see that the average OpenBSD Git object is almost > thrice the size of a Linux one, though.) Comparing apples with oranges: Linux is a kernel, OpenBSD src contains userland. Linux-land stuff is famous for excessive abstraction. OpenBSD values simplicity and avoids abstraction where possible. I wouldn't be surprised if that results in larger files actually doing some real work and in a lesser amount of shallow scaffolding. Pure speculation, though, spending time to find out for real is hardly worthwhile, i think. Yours, Ingo
Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!
On 01/06/18 18:23, Lari Rasku wrote: > The Linux kernel repo is multiple times the size of OpenBSD-src [1], > [1]: Naive estimate based on comparing object counts when cloning from > GitHub: > https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/ - > 5,779,337 objects, > https://github.com/openbsd/src - 1,741,047 objects. I need to correct myself here. The naive estimate is misleading: I took some time today to clone both repositories in full and found that a full checkout of openbsd/src weights in at 953 MiB, and linux.git at 1.1 GiB (obtained by running du -sh on the .git directory). So the difference isn't as overwhelming as just counting objects would suggest. (Surprising to see that the average OpenBSD Git object is almost thrice the size of a Linux one, though.)
Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!
Reminds me of this article: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/bharry/2017/05/24/the-largest-git-repo-on-the-planet/ "As a refresher, the Windows code base is approximately 3.5M files and, when checked in to a Git repo, results in a repo of about 300GB... Before the move to Git, in Source Depot, it was spread across 40+ depots and we had a tool to manage operations that spanned them."` On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 4:13 PM, Stuart Hendersonwrote: > On 2018-01-06, Lari Rasku wrote: > > On 01/02/18 14:03, Stuart Henderson wrote: > >> Hosting a large git repository is not trivial, it uses far more server > >> resources (memory and cpu time) than an anoncvs/cvsync/rsync mirror, and > >> OpenBSD src/ (or even just ports/) is *huge* for a git repo. It works > >> better on Linux where things are more separated. Even *just the kernel* > >> is split across multiple repos. > > > > The Linux kernel repo is multiple times the size of OpenBSD-src [1], > > so I don't see how things being more separated helps them re: hosting. > > Perhaps kernel.org just has more hardware to throw at the problem? > > > > And in case anyone else was confused, the Linux kernel itself isn't split > > across multiple repos: you can build a fully functional one from a single > > checkout. It is the kernel *development* that is split across multiple > > repos, with occasional merges to mainline. > > > > [1]: Naive estimate based on comparing object counts when cloning from > > GitHub: > > https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/ > - 5,779,337 objects, > > Ah thanks, I didn't manage to track that down with the 850 others :) > > > https://github.com/openbsd/src - 1,741,047 objects. > > When I've tried converting in the past I've had things like it taking > about a minute to do a git log, even after the git repack that people > familiar with git suggested I try. > > >> Anyway, has anyone fetched your openbsd-src0-test repo from github while > >> crossing crypto export boundaries? That has the exact same issue, > >> except that now as it's your repo, it may well be considered that it's > >> *you* that is responsible for exporting it. > > > > Surely the responsibility for exporting lies with the one doing the > > checkout? Otherwise I don't see how operators of OpenBSD CVS mirrors > > in the US aren't in the same position. > > > > Or is there some technical distinction between "mirroring" and "checking > out" > > a repository? (I ask because the warning against fetching sources from > USA > > when located outside North America only appears on > > https://www.openbsd.org/cvsync.html, not https://www.openbsd.org/ > anoncvs.html > > or https://www.openbsd.org/ftp.html.) > > I don't know all the details. But the github page about it at > https://help.github.com/articles/github-and-export-controls/ > makes it sound like it's the repo owner's responsibility to me. > > >
Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!
On 2018-01-06, Lari Raskuwrote: > On 01/02/18 14:03, Stuart Henderson wrote: >> Hosting a large git repository is not trivial, it uses far more server >> resources (memory and cpu time) than an anoncvs/cvsync/rsync mirror, and >> OpenBSD src/ (or even just ports/) is *huge* for a git repo. It works >> better on Linux where things are more separated. Even *just the kernel* >> is split across multiple repos. > > The Linux kernel repo is multiple times the size of OpenBSD-src [1], > so I don't see how things being more separated helps them re: hosting. > Perhaps kernel.org just has more hardware to throw at the problem? > > And in case anyone else was confused, the Linux kernel itself isn't split > across multiple repos: you can build a fully functional one from a single > checkout. It is the kernel *development* that is split across multiple > repos, with occasional merges to mainline. > > [1]: Naive estimate based on comparing object counts when cloning from > GitHub: > https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/ - > 5,779,337 objects, Ah thanks, I didn't manage to track that down with the 850 others :) > https://github.com/openbsd/src - 1,741,047 objects. When I've tried converting in the past I've had things like it taking about a minute to do a git log, even after the git repack that people familiar with git suggested I try. >> Anyway, has anyone fetched your openbsd-src0-test repo from github while >> crossing crypto export boundaries? That has the exact same issue, >> except that now as it's your repo, it may well be considered that it's >> *you* that is responsible for exporting it. > > Surely the responsibility for exporting lies with the one doing the > checkout? Otherwise I don't see how operators of OpenBSD CVS mirrors > in the US aren't in the same position. > > Or is there some technical distinction between "mirroring" and "checking out" > a repository? (I ask because the warning against fetching sources from USA > when located outside North America only appears on > https://www.openbsd.org/cvsync.html, not https://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html > or https://www.openbsd.org/ftp.html.) I don't know all the details. But the github page about it at https://help.github.com/articles/github-and-export-controls/ makes it sound like it's the repo owner's responsibility to me.
Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!
On 01/02/18 14:03, Stuart Henderson wrote: > Hosting a large git repository is not trivial, it uses far more server > resources (memory and cpu time) than an anoncvs/cvsync/rsync mirror, and > OpenBSD src/ (or even just ports/) is *huge* for a git repo. It works > better on Linux where things are more separated. Even *just the kernel* > is split across multiple repos. The Linux kernel repo is multiple times the size of OpenBSD-src [1], so I don't see how things being more separated helps them re: hosting. Perhaps kernel.org just has more hardware to throw at the problem? And in case anyone else was confused, the Linux kernel itself isn't split across multiple repos: you can build a fully functional one from a single checkout. It is the kernel *development* that is split across multiple repos, with occasional merges to mainline. [1]: Naive estimate based on comparing object counts when cloning from GitHub: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/ - 5,779,337 objects, https://github.com/openbsd/src - 1,741,047 objects. > Anyway, has anyone fetched your openbsd-src0-test repo from github while > crossing crypto export boundaries? That has the exact same issue, > except that now as it's your repo, it may well be considered that it's > *you* that is responsible for exporting it. Surely the responsibility for exporting lies with the one doing the checkout? Otherwise I don't see how operators of OpenBSD CVS mirrors in the US aren't in the same position. Or is there some technical distinction between "mirroring" and "checking out" a repository? (I ask because the warning against fetching sources from USA when located outside North America only appears on https://www.openbsd.org/cvsync.html, not https://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html or https://www.openbsd.org/ftp.html.)
Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!
On 2017-12-29, Dinesh Thirumurthywrote: > OpenBSD is great project. It should reach every country equally. It does. Full repository with commit history is available and, very unusually for an OS, this is not dependent on the USA. Now that most open source projects provide repository access it's easy to forget, but open repo access was not the norm - OpenBSD pioneered it. https://www.openbsd.org/papers/anoncvs-paper.pdf > Have a look at this picture today > > https://github.com/hakrtech/readme/blob/master/global-outlook.png > > If you provide git protocol access to USA and Canada. > I want git protocol access for Australia, Russia, Japan, Congo, Netherlands > and Rest of the World. Why focus on the access method? The code and history are the important things. So the git conversion is an experimental conversion of part of the information in the cvs repository (no branches/tags) which is pushed to github. It's not using OpenBSD project resources for hosting and I doubt it would be publically available if we had to deal with actually hosting it. Hosting a large git repository is not trivial, it uses far more server resources (memory and cpu time) than an anoncvs/cvsync/rsync mirror, and OpenBSD src/ (or even just ports/) is *huge* for a git repo. It works better on Linux where things are more separated. Even *just the kernel* is split across multiple repos. > Since we cannot provide equal access. Equal access to the git conversion would be trivial. Just delete it. There, now nobody has access, it's equal. Anyway, has anyone fetched your openbsd-src0-test repo from github while crossing crypto export boundaries? That has the exact same issue, except that now as it's your repo, it may well be considered that it's *you* that is responsible for exporting it. I'm not sure if your suggestion of a server in Germany would help. Have you looked into export regulations from there? (Not sure which are relevant but things like the Wassenaar Arrangement would be the place to start looking).
Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!
On 23:35 Thu 28 Dec, Dinesh Thirumurthy wrote: > Dear Everyone, > > On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Mikko Lainewrote: > > > You could try https://notabug.org/, which is Dutch-owned and hosted in > > Germany. Note larger repositories (>100 Mb) are accepted per-case. > > > I have requested notabug.org to provide 1GB space for openbsd src git repo. > It would be good to demonstrate that that you also want this idea > implemented. > > So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll. > > The poll is at https://doodle.com/poll/rbg53x3dyd7i4y5d > > Thanks very much. There is a github mirror already, nah?
Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!
Dinesh Can you not host your own git server and just do a nightly cvs import into that git server? Or am i missing something here to this conversation? Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 29, 2017, at 5:16 PM, Kai Wetlesenwrote: > > Dinesh, > > Short answer: No. > > Long answer: I speak on behalf of myself only. Just what exactly is wrong > with the already existing CVS? Why is a Git repo required? > > Learn CVS, then teach it to your students. > > ~Kai > >> On Dec 28, 2017, at 10:05, Dinesh Thirumurthy >> wrote: >> >> Dear Everyone, >> >>> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Mikko Laine wrote: >>> >>> You could try https://notabug.org/, which is Dutch-owned and hosted in >>> Germany. Note larger repositories (>100 Mb) are accepted per-case. >> >> >> I have requested notabug.org to provide 1GB space for openbsd src git repo. >> It would be good to demonstrate that that you also want this idea >> implemented. >> >> So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll. >> >> The poll is at https://doodle.com/poll/rbg53x3dyd7i4y5d >> >> Thanks very much. >> >> Regards, >> Dinesh Thirumurthy >
Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!
Dinesh, Short answer: No. Long answer: I speak on behalf of myself only. Just what exactly is wrong with the already existing CVS? Why is a Git repo required? Learn CVS, then teach it to your students. ~Kai > On Dec 28, 2017, at 10:05, Dinesh Thirumurthy> wrote: > > Dear Everyone, > >> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Mikko Laine wrote: >> >> You could try https://notabug.org/, which is Dutch-owned and hosted in >> Germany. Note larger repositories (>100 Mb) are accepted per-case. > > > I have requested notabug.org to provide 1GB space for openbsd src git repo. > It would be good to demonstrate that that you also want this idea > implemented. > > So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll. > > The poll is at https://doodle.com/poll/rbg53x3dyd7i4y5d > > Thanks very much. > > Regards, > Dinesh Thirumurthy
Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!
Dinesh -- everything you say below is a giganic pile of dung. We make all our software available to everyone. The internet spans the planet. You are making stuff up, and it is not appreciated how you appear to be misrepresenting the project. Please go fluff up your sense of selfworth elsewhere. >OpenBSD is great project. It should reach every country equally. >That is called "Parity". Rest of the world is at par with USA and Canada. > >Have a look at this picture today > >https://github.com/hakrtech/readme/blob/master/global-outlook.png > >If you provide git protocol access to USA and Canada. >I want git protocol access for Australia, Russia, Japan, Congo, Netherlands >and Rest of the World. > >If you give Mr.Tom at San Francisco git access to src, >and Mr. Dick at Vancouver git access to src, >then Harry at London should also have equal or equivalent access. > >Since we cannot provide equal access. Provide equivalent access. Simple >Idea Really. > >Equivalent implies get a non US box up and running with git hosting of >openbsd src. > >Currently, we are telling Mr.Harry, - You should not access src via our git >channel. >People in other countries have forked and cloned. Give them/us/me another >box >where we can get legally too via the same protocol. > >Parity. Good idea. > >Kindly think this over. > >Dinesh > >On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 10:46 PM, Michael Hekeler>wrote: > >> >> > >> > So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll. >> >> The poll is "We want an OpenBSD Source Repository" >> Really??? >> >> But there are multiple source code mirrors. >> Even anoncvs.ca.openbsd.org isn't located in US. >> >> German mirrors are located in nuernberg and frankfurt. >> >> >
Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!
Dear Mike and others, OpenBSD is great project. It should reach every country equally. That is called "Parity". Rest of the world is at par with USA and Canada. Have a look at this picture today https://github.com/hakrtech/readme/blob/master/global-outlook.png If you provide git protocol access to USA and Canada. I want git protocol access for Australia, Russia, Japan, Congo, Netherlands and Rest of the World. If you give Mr.Tom at San Francisco git access to src, and Mr. Dick at Vancouver git access to src, then Harry at London should also have equal or equivalent access. Since we cannot provide equal access. Provide equivalent access. Simple Idea Really. Equivalent implies get a non US box up and running with git hosting of openbsd src. Currently, we are telling Mr.Harry, - You should not access src via our git channel. People in other countries have forked and cloned. Give them/us/me another box where we can get legally too via the same protocol. Parity. Good idea. Kindly think this over. Dinesh On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 10:46 PM, Michael Hekelerwrote: > > > > > So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll. > > The poll is "We want an OpenBSD Source Repository" > Really??? > > But there are multiple source code mirrors. > Even anoncvs.ca.openbsd.org isn't located in US. > > German mirrors are located in nuernberg and frankfurt. > >
Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!
This doesn't make sense. This seems like a whole lot of effort for very little return. What is wrong with any of the ~dozen cvs mirrors available that aren't located in the states? This seems like a huge duplication of effort. Why not do some testing to find the speediest mirror relative to your location, and then use all the extra effort you saved on something more productive? On 12/28/17 10:05, Dinesh Thirumurthy wrote: Dear Everyone, On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Mikko Lainewrote: You could try https://notabug.org/, which is Dutch-owned and hosted in Germany. Note larger repositories (>100 Mb) are accepted per-case. I have requested notabug.org to provide 1GB space for openbsd src git repo. It would be good to demonstrate that that you also want this idea implemented. So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll. The poll is at https://doodle.com/poll/rbg53x3dyd7i4y5d Thanks very much. Regards, Dinesh Thirumurthy
Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!
> > So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll. The poll is "We want an OpenBSD Source Repository" Really??? But there are multiple source code mirrors. Even anoncvs.ca.openbsd.org isn't located in US. German mirrors are located in nuernberg and frankfurt.
Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!
Hello ! > I have requested notabug.org to provide 1GB space for openbsd src git > repo. > It would be good to demonstrate that that you also want this idea > implemented. See https://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html in detail Setting up an anoncvs mirror There you can read for a complete mirror ... Anoncvs mirrors currently require about 6GB of disk (and it will grow!), For my understanding, why should I get src from your git mirror if I need for ports www xenocara CVS ? Would it not be a better idea to run a CVS mirror (if one is needed) and provide also git if people really need it ? IMHO CVS works fine for me so, why demonstarte that git works ? Regards, Christoph
Re: Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!
Hi, Dinesh Thirumurthy wrote on Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 11:35:29PM +0530: > On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Mikko Lainewrote: >> You could try https://notabug.org/, which is Dutch-owned and hosted in >> Germany. Note larger repositories (>100 Mb) are accepted per-case. > I have requested notabug.org to provide 1GB space for openbsd src git repo. I think you are coming dangerously close to becoming an impostor. You are not an OpenBSD developer, so i don't think you have any business requesting services for OpenBSD from third parties. Of course, everybody is free to redistribute the OpenBSD source code. But that doesn't mean doing so is a good idea when you have no reason whatsoever. Unofficial distribution can cause confusion as to which version is reliable. Who is going to maintain the offshoot you are cobbling together? *You* obviously cannot be trusted. It will soon become orphaned and a distraction. If you want to tell people to play with OpenBSD, tell them to do it the OpenBSD way. Stop your whining, your github-fanboy-attitude, and your annoying chatter and distractive campaining, tell people to use CVS, and start doing some real work instead. If the VCS seems so important to you that you think OpenBSD is unusable with CVS, your priorities are completely screwed up, so just stop using it and go use Windows or Linux or whatever. Yours, Ingo -- Ingo Schwarze
Kindly support this initiative for a public git repository of OpenBSD source code located at Germany!
Dear Everyone, On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Mikko Lainewrote: > You could try https://notabug.org/, which is Dutch-owned and hosted in > Germany. Note larger repositories (>100 Mb) are accepted per-case. I have requested notabug.org to provide 1GB space for openbsd src git repo. It would be good to demonstrate that that you also want this idea implemented. So, kindly help by voting Yes to my online poll. The poll is at https://doodle.com/poll/rbg53x3dyd7i4y5d Thanks very much. Regards, Dinesh Thirumurthy