Re: My hard-to-kill OpenBSD
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jordan Klein Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 4:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My hard-to-kill OpenBSD -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 1:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My hard-to-kill OpenBSD snip I've noticed that to a lot of techies have this attitude: if it isn't GUI, it's not worth knowing. I said GUI instead of Windows because now that you can do a lot of things with a GUI on Linux, even the Linux people are starting to have this attitude, especially newbies. It's even frustrating to teach a newbie the advantages of vi. Never mind that I would much rather talk a computer-illiterate person over the phone on how to change a configuration file with vi than any other GUI text editor. When I first started toying with OpenBSD, I installed it on an old system laying around. Then I got bored and tried to install Debian, Red Hat, NetBSD, and FreeBSD. All of them could not get past the installation routines. So I put OpenBSD back on. This really isn't a fair story because it was so long ago and I don't remember all the details. But I do remember the impression OpenBSD had on me because of this. It's not only the users. It's the disto makers, as well. If you've seen any current distros of Linux, almost all of them are standardizing on GUI installs, and GUI management. In fact, they've gotten to the point where it's getting much harder to manage them through the command-line, because of the insane configuration files that redhat, suse, and the others are using now. What's worse is that since new sysadmins are not learning the command-line anymore, they're going to be in a LOT of trouble if the GUI is broken (i.e., xorg.conf is misconfigured). While using a GUI can be useful, having easy, complete control from a command-prompt is vital. My OpenBSD install has no X installed, and is fully managed via ssh or console. That's the way UNIX was meant to be managed. -- Jordan Klein ~ Beware of dragons [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ for you are crunchy Solaris / OpenBSD / Linux Admin ~ and go well with ketchup It's been a while since I have had to bother with Linux (mostly because my boss wouldn't know the differance) but I have to say that the last time I was forced to use the L word I had a hell of a time trying to get it configured properly. With OpenBSD, I know where everything is, there are only a few main configuration files and they are organized in a logical way. After having to do it a few times, I can totally under- stand why some Linux guys want a GUI for config. The learning curve for command line config of a Linux system is ginormous, or at least it seemed so to me (others are probably smarter than I am). I would rather spend my time on OpenBSD and watch things just work than beat my head up against the Linux wall. Now I could only wish that the microsoft servers that I have to bother with could add a simple command line config (ok, hell could freeze over). The way MS has worked to make things easier and easier with all the wizzards etc (crap) it's getting so that fine grained control is all but gone and if the wizz can't do it, it can't be done. That's the real problem with GUI config as I see it. stuart
Re: My hard-to-kill OpenBSD
On 4/13/07, stuart van Zee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [SNIP] The way MS has worked to make things easier and easier with all the wizzards etc (crap) it's getting so that fine grained control is all but gone and if the wizz can't do it, it can't be done. That's the real problem with GUI config as I see it. /LURK Microsoft is finally starting to see the light (a little bit). Powershell will finally expose all gui functionality to the command-line, and Exchange 2007 will actually ship without a gui management console - its management is done via powershell. FWIW. YMMV. DBMIOWH. LURK
Re: My hard-to-kill OpenBSD
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:48:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Obiozor Okeke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My hard-to-kill OpenBSD To: Rico Secada [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] I try to explain to my Linux friends just how great a system OpenBSD really is and some people just don't get it! I am MUCH more productive because I can go and do more work and a higher quality of work without having to tend to or keep checking up on a fragile box - I've even had an OpenBSD box run strong with a bad memory bank (that Linux would not install on)! I've noticed that to a lot of techies have this attitude: if it isn't GUI, it's not worth knowing. I said GUI instead of Windows because now that you can do a lot of things with a GUI on Linux, even the Linux people are starting to have this attitude, especially newbies. It's even frustrating to teach a newbie the advantages of vi. Never mind that I would much rather talk a computer-illiterate person over the phone on how to change a configuration file with vi than any other GUI text editor. When I first started toying with OpenBSD, I installed it on an old system laying around. Then I got bored and tried to install Debian, Red Hat, NetBSD, and FreeBSD. All of them could not get past the installation routines. So I put OpenBSD back on. This really isn't a fair story because it was so long ago and I don't remember all the details. But I do remember the impression OpenBSD had on me because of this. -- Need cash? Click to get an instant cash advance http://tagline.hushmail.com/fc/CAaCXv1KmERGDiMZuZL4koo1G8xit51z/
Re: My hard-to-kill OpenBSD
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 1:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My hard-to-kill OpenBSD snip I've noticed that to a lot of techies have this attitude: if it isn't GUI, it's not worth knowing. I said GUI instead of Windows because now that you can do a lot of things with a GUI on Linux, even the Linux people are starting to have this attitude, especially newbies. It's even frustrating to teach a newbie the advantages of vi. Never mind that I would much rather talk a computer-illiterate person over the phone on how to change a configuration file with vi than any other GUI text editor. When I first started toying with OpenBSD, I installed it on an old system laying around. Then I got bored and tried to install Debian, Red Hat, NetBSD, and FreeBSD. All of them could not get past the installation routines. So I put OpenBSD back on. This really isn't a fair story because it was so long ago and I don't remember all the details. But I do remember the impression OpenBSD had on me because of this. It's not only the users. It's the disto makers, as well. If you've seen any current distros of Linux, almost all of them are standardizing on GUI installs, and GUI management. In fact, they've gotten to the point where it's getting much harder to manage them through the command-line, because of the insane configuration files that redhat, suse, and the others are using now. What's worse is that since new sysadmins are not learning the command-line anymore, they're going to be in a LOT of trouble if the GUI is broken (i.e., xorg.conf is misconfigured). While using a GUI can be useful, having easy, complete control from a command-prompt is vital. My OpenBSD install has no X installed, and is fully managed via ssh or console. That's the way UNIX was meant to be managed. -- Jordan Klein ~ Beware of dragons [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ for you are crunchy Solaris / OpenBSD / Linux Admin ~ and go well with ketchup
