OpenBSD Hardware Sales
On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:37:48 -0600, Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Every release, more people download OpenBSD and fewer people buy OpenBSD. But the solution is not to make OpenBSD developers web businessmen. That is a road to slower development. The solution is not to complain about users not buying something which ostensibly takes pride in being available for free; it is to take advantage of good ideas when they are offered. This is such an idea. Wow, free advice as to how I can spend my time. Aren't you kind? Want some advice from me? Actually Theo, yes, I do want some advice from you. (; Though I have serious reservations siding with some clown who dresses up in an imaginary persona like Szechuan Death and goes parading around internet (probably in tights) making whimsical promises, none the less, the idea of the project earning revenue through hardware sales is at least interesting. There is absolutely no point in burdening developers with such tasks since doing so would only result in less code being written. All the same, there are a number of regular folks, users, who support the OpenBSD project and it's developers in the ways that they can... As we discussed a long time ago, I know you dislike the idea not-for-profit organizations in the US (because they seem to support a failed government health care system) but they do have their place and one could be used to both provide hardware to coders (i.e. donations from vendors) and compensate them for all their hard work, expenses and whatnot (revenue from hardware sales). Not everyone using OpenBSD has both the concern and character to make gratis gifts to the project or even buy CD's and T-Shirts but all of them *must* buy hardware. The idea of giving everyone a place to buy hardware _AND_ support the project at the same time might prove to be worthwhile if done correctly. Heck, even a for-profit company selling certified gear and supports/pays/employs a handful developers might be a good thing. Fully indexing chips with products and since this is hypothetical, also archiving the technical documentation for said chips/products, as well as the obvious of providing a way to purchase said products and making sure vendors don't change chips while keeping the same product names/numbers is a staggering amount of work. It would be a full time job for a number of people and developers obviously have better things to do with their time and talent. On the other hand, if such a thing (1) does not add work for developers and (2) provides revenue, hardware and support for the project/developers is it worth discussing the ways it could be done? Is anyone already doing something similar? (Wim?) There are only three primary problems that must solved: (1) Finding the people willing to work on it. (2) Figuring out how to sell hardware online. (3) Figuring out how to tunnel support to the project/devs. It seems possible but then again, I may be wasting my time (and yours) thinking about it? Kind Regards, JCR (an idiot who bought a MegaRAID ATA 133-2 thinking it would work with OpenBSD since MegaRAID was listed as supported)
Re: OpenBSD Hardware Sales
--On 27 September 2005 03:04 -0700, J.C. Roberts wrote: (an idiot who bought a MegaRAID ATA 133-2 thinking it would work with OpenBSD since MegaRAID was listed as supported) The new http://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#38 suggests it works too, and ami(4) and 'supported hardware' lists don't mention anything to the contrary. Perhaps adding with integrated I/O processor somewhere might be judicious?
Re: OpenBSD Hardware Sales
On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:19:05 +0100, Stuart Henderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --On 27 September 2005 03:04 -0700, J.C. Roberts wrote: (an idiot who bought a MegaRAID ATA 133-2 thinking it would work with OpenBSD since MegaRAID was listed as supported) The new http://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#38 suggests it works too, and ami(4) and 'supported hardware' lists don't mention anything to the contrary. Perhaps adding with integrated I/O processor somewhere might be judicious? I think it might just be an ID issue, hence easily solved but I won't get to mess with it again until next week. JCR
Re: OpenBSD Hardware Sales
On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 03:04:19 -0700 J.C. Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:37:48 -0600, Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Every release, more people download OpenBSD and fewer people buy OpenBSD. But the solution is not to make OpenBSD developers web businessmen. That is a road to slower development. The solution is not to complain about users not buying something which ostensibly takes pride in being available for free; it is to take advantage of good ideas when they are offered. This is such an idea. Wow, free advice as to how I can spend my time. Aren't you kind? Want some advice from me? Actually Theo, yes, I do want some advice from you. (; Though I have serious reservations siding with some clown who dresses up in an imaginary persona like Szechuan Death and goes parading around internet (probably in tights) making whimsical promises, none the less, the idea of the project earning revenue through hardware sales is at least interesting. There is absolutely no point in burdening developers with such tasks since doing so would only result in less code being written. All the same, there are a number of regular folks, users, who support the OpenBSD project and it's developers in the ways that they can... As we discussed a long time ago, I know you dislike the idea not-for-profit organizations in the US (because they seem to support a failed government health care system) but they do have their place and one could be used to both provide hardware to coders (i.e. donations from vendors) and compensate them for all their hard work, expenses and whatnot (revenue from hardware sales). Not everyone using OpenBSD has both the concern and character to make gratis gifts to the project or even buy CD's and T-Shirts but all of them *must* buy hardware. The idea of giving everyone a place to buy hardware _AND_ support the project at the same time might prove to be worthwhile if done correctly. Heck, even a for-profit company selling certified gear and supports/pays/employs a handful developers might be a good thing. Fully indexing chips with products and since this is hypothetical, also archiving the technical documentation for said chips/products, as well as the obvious of providing a way to purchase said products and making sure vendors don't change chips while keeping the same product names/numbers is a staggering amount of work. It would be a full time job for a number of people and developers obviously have better things to do with their time and talent. On the other hand, if such a thing (1) does not add work for developers and (2) provides revenue, hardware and support for the project/developers is it worth discussing the ways it could be done? Is anyone already doing something similar? (Wim?) There are only three primary problems that must solved: (1) Finding the people willing to work on it. (2) Figuring out how to sell hardware online. (3) Figuring out how to tunnel support to the project/devs. It seems possible but then again, I may be wasting my time (and yours) thinking about it? Kind Regards, JCR (an idiot who bought a MegaRAID ATA 133-2 thinking it would work with OpenBSD since MegaRAID was listed as supported) We build e-commerce web sites here... there is ALOT to work out if you plan on just selling the hardware yourself - alot of which involves getting lines of credit, banking, etc, etc. Even if you are going to just drop ship from the manufacturer it still becomes a massive headache unless you can devote full time to this, have lots of money to invest in getting it started, etc. Slightly less entangling would be a user maintained (take work off the dev's) compatibility list that simply pointed to places that were friendly to openbsd in some way (referral fees, donating hardware, etc). I am not sure what those way's would be. If this sounds too simple to be interesting, I am sure ways can be found to complicate it beyond reason. My opinion is that there would not be all that much money to be gained from referral fee's - based on thoughts that: 1) Most people, while grateful something told them which parts were okay would still shop from the normal places they order from (even if the normal place is who ever is lowest cost), 2) referral fee's are not what they used to be - amazon for instance you need to sell about $200 US before you even cover the check writing fee they charge you (unless you give them your bank account number) - and any serious hardware will probably be ordered from somewhere that does not offer referral fees. As for finding the lowest price, there are sites out there that do this... froogle, pricewatch etc... I would say let them keep doing it. Focus on filling in the gap between hearing something works on openbsd and which versions actually do. Then someone can go and find the lowest price. So somehow making a user supported hardware list I
Re: OpenBSD Hardware Sales
On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:26:08 -0400, Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 03:04:19 -0700 J.C. Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:37:48 -0600, Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Every release, more people download OpenBSD and fewer people buy OpenBSD. But the solution is not to make OpenBSD developers web businessmen. That is a road to slower development. The solution is not to complain about users not buying something which ostensibly takes pride in being available for free; it is to take advantage of good ideas when they are offered. This is such an idea. Wow, free advice as to how I can spend my time. Aren't you kind? Want some advice from me? Actually Theo, yes, I do want some advice from you. (; Though I have serious reservations siding with some clown who dresses up in an imaginary persona like Szechuan Death and goes parading around internet (probably in tights) making whimsical promises, none the less, the idea of the project earning revenue through hardware sales is at least interesting. There is absolutely no point in burdening developers with such tasks since doing so would only result in less code being written. All the same, there are a number of regular folks, users, who support the OpenBSD project and it's developers in the ways that they can... As we discussed a long time ago, I know you dislike the idea not-for-profit organizations in the US (because they seem to support a failed government health care system) but they do have their place and one could be used to both provide hardware to coders (i.e. donations from vendors) and compensate them for all their hard work, expenses and whatnot (revenue from hardware sales). Not everyone using OpenBSD has both the concern and character to make gratis gifts to the project or even buy CD's and T-Shirts but all of them *must* buy hardware. The idea of giving everyone a place to buy hardware _AND_ support the project at the same time might prove to be worthwhile if done correctly. Heck, even a for-profit company selling certified gear and supports/pays/employs a handful developers might be a good thing. Fully indexing chips with products and since this is hypothetical, also archiving the technical documentation for said chips/products, as well as the obvious of providing a way to purchase said products and making sure vendors don't change chips while keeping the same product names/numbers is a staggering amount of work. It would be a full time job for a number of people and developers obviously have better things to do with their time and talent. On the other hand, if such a thing (1) does not add work for developers and (2) provides revenue, hardware and support for the project/developers is it worth discussing the ways it could be done? Is anyone already doing something similar? (Wim?) There are only three primary problems that must solved: (1) Finding the people willing to work on it. (2) Figuring out how to sell hardware online. (3) Figuring out how to tunnel support to the project/devs. It seems possible but then again, I may be wasting my time (and yours) thinking about it? Kind Regards, JCR (an idiot who bought a MegaRAID ATA 133-2 thinking it would work with OpenBSD since MegaRAID was listed as supported) We build e-commerce web sites here... there is ALOT to work out if you plan on just selling the hardware yourself - alot of which involves getting lines of credit, banking, etc, etc. Even if you are going to just drop ship from the manufacturer it still becomes a massive headache unless you can devote full time to this, have lots of money to invest in getting it started, etc. Slightly less entangling would be a user maintained (take work off the dev's) compatibility list that simply pointed to places that were friendly to openbsd in some way (referral fees, donating hardware, etc). I am not sure what those way's would be. If this sounds too simple to be interesting, I am sure ways can be found to complicate it beyond reason. My opinion is that there would not be all that much money to be gained from referral fee's - based on thoughts that: 1) Most people, while grateful something told them which parts were okay would still shop from the normal places they order from (even if the normal place is who ever is lowest cost), 2) referral fee's are not what they used to be - amazon for instance you need to sell about $200 US before you even cover the check writing fee they charge you (unless you give them your bank account number) - and any serious hardware will probably be ordered from somewhere that does not offer referral fees. As for finding the lowest price, there are sites out there that do this... froogle, pricewatch etc... I would say let them keep doing it. Focus on filling in the gap between hearing something works on openbsd and which versions actually do. Then someone can go and find
