Re: RAID options for OpenBSD
On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 10:41:40 -0700 Tyler Morgan wrote: I decided, for my fairly basic router needs, to not use RAID in OpenBSD and instead rely on CARP and backups. I am more worried about the power supply and the motherboard going wonky before the SSD. CARP is obviously better but being more worried about power supplies (granted they can be very cheap and nasty) and MBs more than SSD/HDD is simply nonsense.
Re: RAID options for OpenBSD
On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 18:04 +, Kevin Chadwick ma1l1i...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 10:41:40 -0700 Tyler Morgan wrote: I decided, for my fairly basic router needs, to not use RAID in OpenBSD and instead rely on CARP and backups. I am more worried about the power supply and the motherboard going wonky before the SSD. CARP is obviously better but being more worried about power supplies (granted they can be very cheap and nasty) and MBs more than SSD/HDD is simply nonsense. In my personal experience I've seen many more power supply failures than HDD failures, but I guess it's just me...
Re: RAID options for OpenBSD
On 2011-06-19 21.50, Eric Furman wrote: On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 18:04 +, Kevin Chadwick On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 10:41:40 -0700 Tyler Morgan wrote: I decided, for my fairly basic router needs, to not use RAID in OpenBSD and instead rely on CARP and backups. I am more worried about the power supply and the motherboard going wonky before the SSD. CARP is obviously better but being more worried about power supplies (granted they can be very cheap and nasty) and MBs more than SSD/HDD is simply nonsense. In my personal experience I've seen many more power supply failures than HDD failures, but I guess it's just me... I've got the opposite experience. Sure, as Kevin pointed out, PSU:s can be very cheap and I've had my fair share of those pop, but I build *all* of my systems with some form of RAID with redundancy because it gives me demonstrably better uptimes. I would say that on average, one to two in 20 drives goes belly-up within the first year of service. The rest usually never die, or rather last until they're replaced for other reasons, but I don't want the one bad apple to spoil my day in any way if I can avoid it by design. What RAID (and redundant PSU:s) buys me is the luxury of choosing myself when my servers are gonna have service downtime, rather than some random component failure choosing for me. Sure, CARP gives one kind of redundancy in some specific use cases, but I absolutely prefer my redundancies redundant, thankyouverymuch. :-) Regards, /Benny -- internetlabbet.se / work: +46 8 551 124 80 / Words must Benny Lvfgren/ mobile: +46 70 718 11 90 / be weighed, / fax:+46 8 551 124 89/not counted. /email: benny -at- internetlabbet.se
Re: RAID options for OpenBSD
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 7:47 AM, Donald Reichert silvershadow...@gmx.de wrote: Hi list, I'm preparing a pair of new servers, each equipped with a bunch of NICs in order to replace some Cisco gear doing BGP and friends. What puzzles me right now is how to configure the stuff HD-wise. I have two SSDs in each of the machines, my initial planning was to do some RAID-1 in order to push uptime. (I have to admit that as a former Linux sceptic I have made excellent experience with their RAID stuff -- thus my planning.) You will not be happy with reliability of SSD http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/05/the-hot-crazy-solid-state-drive-scal e.html . Laptop/Workstation is different use and SSDs are used as cache and not as storage in places where you need to trust your storage. However, as the years went by and my NetBSD knowledge isn't the best any more (hint: RAIDframe), I'm not sure how to set up my OpenBSD routers. Is there any 'best practice guide' out there? FAQ is a bit thin: http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#RAID So, after all I wanted to use softraid(4) and put everything except root there, as, from what I read, OpenBSD cannot boot off a RAID partition at the moment. Is that correct? There are some workarounds until full boot support will be available http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=articlesid=20110530221728 Thanks, Donald -- Empfehlen Sie GMX DSL Ihren Freunden und Bekannten und wir belohnen Sie mit bis zu 50,- Euro! https://freundschaftswerbung.gmx.de
Re: RAID options for OpenBSD
On 2011-06-17, Donald Reichert silvershadow...@gmx.de wrote: I'm preparing a pair of new servers, each equipped with a bunch of NICs in order to replace some Cisco gear doing BGP and friends. What puzzles me right now is how to configure the stuff HD-wise. I have two SSDs in each of the machines, my initial planning was to do some RAID-1 in order to push uptime. (I have to admit that as a former Linux sceptic I have made excellent experience with their RAID stuff -- thus my planning.) However, as the years went by and my NetBSD knowledge isn't the best any more (hint: RAIDframe), I'm not sure how to set up my OpenBSD routers. Is there any 'best practice guide' out there? FAQ is a bit thin: http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#RAID So, after all I wanted to use softraid(4) and put everything except root there, as, from what I read, OpenBSD cannot boot off a RAID partition at the moment. Is that correct? That's correct, so at present softraid(4) isn't going to help with uptime, and it's not going to help much with data protection on this type of system either (since most of what you care about will be config data which will be in / and should be in some kind of config management system anyway). It's quite common to just run routers from single disk/SSD (or CF, but if you're using a standard machine there's no point messing around with this now that 8/16GB SSDs are so cheap). Less uptime on the single box if a disk fails, but there are plenty of things that can fail in a machine, and that's why you install them in pairs...and of course this method reduces complexity, which is typically good for uptime :) But root-on-softraid might not be so far off; would any softraid developers like to weigh in and suggest how things might be configured so that it works for now and make it easier to move to root-on-raid in future? Personally I wouldn't bother with this for a router, but for some other applications it would be helpful to know.
Re: RAID options for OpenBSD
Tomas Bodzar tomas.bod...@gmail.com wrote: You will not be happy with reliability of SSD http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/05/the-hot-crazy-solid-state-drive-scal e.html After lots and lots of useless blather, the first interesting tidbit shows up in a comment more than halfway down the page: | Over at blekko, we've had 3 SSD failures after 1.5 years, out of | 700 drives. These are Intel X-25M 160G2 drives. That's the sort of figure you'd expect for spinning platters, too. -- Christian naddy Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
Re: RAID options for OpenBSD
On 6/17/2011 10:03 AM, Christian Weisgerber wrote: Tomas Bodzartomas.bod...@gmail.com wrote: You will not be happy with reliability of SSD http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/05/the-hot-crazy-solid-state-drive-scal e.html After lots and lots of useless blather, the first interesting tidbit shows up in a comment more than halfway down the page: | Over at blekko, we've had 3 SSD failures after 1.5 years, out of | 700 drives. These are Intel X-25M 160G2 drives. That's the sort of figure you'd expect for spinning platters, too. Yeah, this is a terrible blog post. Like the commenters on it say, there must have been environmental factors like heat or bad power. YMMV but, I have about 60 SSDs in production and haven't had a single one fail in the ~1.5 years we've been moving everything to SSD. Crucial 32Gs in half dozen OpenBSD router pairs all running smoothly. RAID10s of Intel X-25Ms and 320s and (soon!) 510s. I love SSDs. I decided, for my fairly basic router needs, to not use RAID in OpenBSD and instead rely on CARP and backups. I am more worried about the power supply and the motherboard going wonky before the SSD.
Re: RAID options for OpenBSD
On Jun 17, 2011, at 1:03 PM, na...@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) wrote: Tomas Bodzar tomas.bod...@gmail.com wrote: You will not be happy with reliability of SSD http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/05/the-hot-crazy-solid-state-drive-scal e.html After lots and lots of useless blather, the first interesting tidbit shows up in a comment more than halfway down the page: | Over at blekko, we've had 3 SSD failures after 1.5 years, out of | 700 drives. These are Intel X-25M 160G2 drives. That's the sort of figure you'd expect for spinning platters, too. Also worth noting those aren't even the enterprise model. The E series are supposed to last much longer.
RAID options for OpenBSD
Hi list, I'm preparing a pair of new servers, each equipped with a bunch of NICs in order to replace some Cisco gear doing BGP and friends. What puzzles me right now is how to configure the stuff HD-wise. I have two SSDs in each of the machines, my initial planning was to do some RAID-1 in order to push uptime. (I have to admit that as a former Linux sceptic I have made excellent experience with their RAID stuff -- thus my planning.) However, as the years went by and my NetBSD knowledge isn't the best any more (hint: RAIDframe), I'm not sure how to set up my OpenBSD routers. Is there any 'best practice guide' out there? FAQ is a bit thin: http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#RAID So, after all I wanted to use softraid(4) and put everything except root there, as, from what I read, OpenBSD cannot boot off a RAID partition at the moment. Is that correct? Thanks, Donald -- Empfehlen Sie GMX DSL Ihren Freunden und Bekannten und wir belohnen Sie mit bis zu 50,- Euro! https://freundschaftswerbung.gmx.de
