Re: PC for assembly learning purposes
Well, I haven't chosen word break wisely, instead I meant I don't want to reinstall my PC for work (different OS). I rather need new pc for my personal use at home. Anyway, thank you for your responses. I have got a better picture now and as Nick said I will try several architectures, my original intention was to learn more about microprocessors at low level. 2011/7/25 Nick Holland n...@holland-consulting.net: On 07/24/11 07:27, Tomas Vavrys wrote: Hello, I am looking for a new cheap PC for assembly learning purposes, because I don't want to break my current workstation. I was thinking about http://www.tekmote.nl/epages/61504599.sf/nl_NL/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61504599/Pr oducts/CFL-006 but I am a little bit worried about current status All on-board devices are supported, but the framebuffer is currently limited to the 640x400x8 video mode set up by the firmware. What is the status in -current at the moment? This device will be used only for my learning purposes. I would like to jump on C and compilers later. Is it better to start with RISC or CISC? Should I buy rather x86? yes I'm assuming you mean assembly language, not putting hardware together... If so, what's your purpose? B Learning a particular assembly language? In which case, you get a machine of the exact type you plan to be coding for. If you are after the more generic learning microprocessors at a low level, you need SEVERAL, really. B Its a bit like learning a human language, I suspect (while I learned many different processors Way Back When, I'm hopelessly monolingual in the human world, but I've heard multi-lingual people tell me this) -- Learn one, you know one barely. Learn two, the third and later come quickly and easily, and you learn a lot more about your first. The good news is you don't need to buy new hardware. B For anything you are likely to do for the near term, the slowest processor will assemble code and run rapidly for you. So, get yourself a PII or PIII for x86, a sparc and a sparc64, an amd64 system (this one you probably have to pay for), and a mac68k (we're bringing that port back. B I don't think I can fully answer why). Nick.
Re: PC for assembly learning purposes
Op 24-7-2011 23:35, Tomas Vavrys schreef: This looks also promising... http://www.genesi-usa.com/products Are there any plans to support this architecture? Don't think so: http://www.openbsd.org/pegasos.html says it all. Erik
Re: PC for assembly learning purposes
The easiest (if not perhaps the cheapest) solution is virtualisation. Use VMWare ESXi/VMWare Server/Xen or Qemu. Alternatively if you have more cash, run VMWare Workstation which includes the ability to record the state of a machine and then play it backwards to track down especially tricky bugs. On 25/07/2011, Tomas Vavrys vav...@cleancode.cz wrote: Well, I haven't chosen word break wisely, instead I meant I don't want to reinstall my PC for work (different OS). I rather need new pc for my personal use at home. Anyway, thank you for your responses. I have got a better picture now and as Nick said I will try several architectures, my original intention was to learn more about microprocessors at low level. 2011/7/25 Nick Holland n...@holland-consulting.net: On 07/24/11 07:27, Tomas Vavrys wrote: Hello, I am looking for a new cheap PC for assembly learning purposes, because I don't want to break my current workstation. I was thinking about http://www.tekmote.nl/epages/61504599.sf/nl_NL/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61504599/Pr oducts/CFL-006 but I am a little bit worried about current status All on-board devices are supported, but the framebuffer is currently limited to the 640x400x8 video mode set up by the firmware. What is the status in -current at the moment? This device will be used only for my learning purposes. I would like to jump on C and compilers later. Is it better to start with RISC or CISC? Should I buy rather x86? yes I'm assuming you mean assembly language, not putting hardware together... If so, what's your purpose? B Learning a particular assembly language? In which case, you get a machine of the exact type you plan to be coding for. If you are after the more generic learning microprocessors at a low level, you need SEVERAL, really. B Its a bit like learning a human language, I suspect (while I learned many different processors Way Back When, I'm hopelessly monolingual in the human world, but I've heard multi-lingual people tell me this) -- Learn one, you know one barely. Learn two, the third and later come quickly and easily, and you learn a lot more about your first. The good news is you don't need to buy new hardware. B For anything you are likely to do for the near term, the slowest processor will assemble code and run rapidly for you. So, get yourself a PII or PIII for x86, a sparc and a sparc64, an amd64 system (this one you probably have to pay for), and a mac68k (we're bringing that port back. B I don't think I can fully answer why). Nick.
Re: PC for assembly learning purposes
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011, Tomas Vavrys wrote: This device will be used only for my learning purposes. I would like to jump on C and compilers later. Is it better to start with RISC or CISC? Should I buy rather x86? Buy the platfrom you want to learn. x86 architecture is full of its design issues and is quite different from others, but if you want to develop for x86, then it does not make sense to learn anything else instead of it. Regards, David
Re: PC for assembly learning purposes
David, If learning a sane and proper computer architecture is the perpose, what system do you recommend from the list of platform that OBSD supports? thanks and regards, bill David Vasek va...@fido.cz )s 2011~7$k24$i $U$H7:52 g9D!G On Sun, 24 Jul 2011, Tomas Vavrys wrote: This device will be used only for my learning purposes. I would like to jump on C and compilers later. Is it better to start with RISC or CISC? Should I buy rather x86? Buy the platfrom you want to learn. x86 architecture is full of its design issues and is quite different from others, but if you want to develop for x86, then it does not make sense to learn anything else instead of it. Regards, David
Re: PC for assembly learning purposes
Hi! I am not the right person to answer this and don't want to spread any nonsense. There are others here who are. What I can say is, any m68k CPU in its era was much much saner than any member of the x86 family. Today, I would rather look for more sanity at sparc64 (which survives in rather small niche market) or alpha (which has been violently murdered). But hey, I don't have assembler level experience with neither of these two. Nonetheless, as I said earlier, I would focus on the platform which is the target of my development efforts. Regards, David On Sun, 24 Jul 2011, Billy wrote: David, If learning a sane and proper computer architecture is the perpose, what system do you recommend from the list of platform that OBSD supports? thanks and regards, bill David Vasek va...@fido.cz )s 2011~7$k24$i $U$H7:52 g9D!G On Sun, 24 Jul 2011, Tomas Vavrys wrote: This device will be used only for my learning purposes. I would like to jump on C and compilers later. Is it better to start with RISC or CISC? Should I buy rather x86? Buy the platfrom you want to learn. x86 architecture is full of its design issues and is quite different from others, but if you want to develop for x86, then it does not make sense to learn anything else instead of it. Regards, David
Re: PC for assembly learning purposes
This looks also promising... http://www.genesi-usa.com/products Are there any plans to support this architecture? 2011/7/24 David Vasek va...@fido.cz: Hi! I am not the right person to answer this and don't want to spread any nonsense. There are others here who are. What I can say is, any m68k CPU in its era was much much saner than any member of the x86 family. Today, I would rather look for more sanity at sparc64 (which survives in rather small niche market) or alpha (which has been violently murdered). But hey, I don't have assembler level experience with neither of these two. Nonetheless, as I said earlier, I would focus on the platform which is the target of my development efforts. Regards, David On Sun, 24 Jul 2011, Billy wrote: David, If learning a sane and proper computer architecture is the perpose, what system do you recommend from the list of platform that OBSD supports? thanks and regards, bill David Vasek va...@fido.cz E C3 2011E~7B$C+24B$C) B$UB$D 7:52 E:gE!DDG On Sun, 24 Jul 2011, Tomas Vavrys wrote: This device will be used only for my learning purposes. I would like to jump on C and compilers later. Is it better to start with RISC or CISC? Should I buy rather x86? Buy the platfrom you want to learn. x86 architecture is full of its design issues and is quite different from others, but if you want to develop for x86, then it does not make sense to learn anything else instead of it. Regards, David
Re: PC for assembly learning purposes
Again, I am not the right to answer, but try to guess it yourself. It is a different architecture, but... http://www.openbsd.org/pegasos.html Regards, David On Sun, 24 Jul 2011, Tomas Vavrys wrote: This looks also promising... http://www.genesi-usa.com/products Are there any plans to support this architecture? 2011/7/24 David Vasek va...@fido.cz: Hi! I am not the right person to answer this and don't want to spread any nonsense. There are others here who are. What I can say is, any m68k CPU in its era was much much saner than any member of the x86 family. Today, I would rather look for more sanity at sparc64 (which survives in rather small niche market) or alpha (which has been violently murdered). But hey, I don't have assembler level experience with neither of these two. Nonetheless, as I said earlier, I would focus on the platform which is the target of my development efforts. Regards, David On Sun, 24 Jul 2011, Billy wrote: David, If learning a sane and proper computer architecture is the perpose, what system do you recommend from the list of platform that OBSD supports? thanks and regards, bill David Vasek va...@fido.cz )s 2011~7$k24$i $U$H7:52 g9D!G On Sun, 24 Jul 2011, Tomas Vavrys wrote: This device will be used only for my learning purposes. I would like to jump on C and compilers later. Is it better to start with RISC or CISC? Should I buy rather x86? Buy the platfrom you want to learn. x86 architecture is full of its design issues and is quite different from others, but if you want to develop for x86, then it does not make sense to learn anything else instead of it. Regards, David
Re: PC for assembly learning purposes
On 07/24/11 07:27, Tomas Vavrys wrote: Hello, I am looking for a new cheap PC for assembly learning purposes, because I don't want to break my current workstation. I was thinking about http://www.tekmote.nl/epages/61504599.sf/nl_NL/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61504599/Products/CFL-006 but I am a little bit worried about current status All on-board devices are supported, but the framebuffer is currently limited to the 640x400x8 video mode set up by the firmware. What is the status in -current at the moment? This device will be used only for my learning purposes. I would like to jump on C and compilers later. Is it better to start with RISC or CISC? Should I buy rather x86? yes I'm assuming you mean assembly language, not putting hardware together... If so, what's your purpose? Learning a particular assembly language? In which case, you get a machine of the exact type you plan to be coding for. If you are after the more generic learning microprocessors at a low level, you need SEVERAL, really. Its a bit like learning a human language, I suspect (while I learned many different processors Way Back When, I'm hopelessly monolingual in the human world, but I've heard multi-lingual people tell me this) -- Learn one, you know one barely. Learn two, the third and later come quickly and easily, and you learn a lot more about your first. The good news is you don't need to buy new hardware. For anything you are likely to do for the near term, the slowest processor will assemble code and run rapidly for you. So, get yourself a PII or PIII for x86, a sparc and a sparc64, an amd64 system (this one you probably have to pay for), and a mac68k (we're bringing that port back. I don't think I can fully answer why). Nick.
Re: PC for assembly learning purposes
On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 7:27 AM, Tomas Vavrys vav...@cleancode.cz wrote: Hello, I am looking for a new cheap PC for assembly learning purposes, because I don't want to break my current workstation. If you are doing only userland development, why would it break your current workstation? In fact, if you managed to write something that can break your workstation (other than a denial of service, but a simple kill -9 processid will solve that problem), you've found or tickled a bug. Then once you have more experience, you'd know what you want to play with, then spend the $$ at that time. -- http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity. -- Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation. Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory where smoking on the job is permitted. -- Gene Spafford learn french: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30v_g83VHK4
