Re: When will OpenBSD support UTF8?
--- Marc Espie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 07:41:35AM -0400, Juan Miscaro wrote: --- Paul Irofti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 11:22:53AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote: On 11/1/07, Juan Miscaro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi gang. Is there any priority for having OpenBSD support UTF8? // peter utf-8 isn't an OS-level thing. You need to do it in every app. Googling, the first result brings up http://osdir.com/ml/os.openbsd.ports/2004-02/msg00376.html as an example. The sad thing is that the man pages don't mention that OpenBSD's libc doesn't quite support locale, multibyte/wide char conversions thus Unicode. E.g. if you look at mbstowcs(3) you'd say: okay, I can use that... but looking at the code behind it you'll see its a pure stab that does a simple memcpy from chars to ints (or wchar_ts as they modernly call it in C99). You would REALLY be surprised how much of a difference this `simple stub' does... it allows us to compile *a lot* of code that helps support utf8 in ports land. And in reality, this part of OpenBSD is C99-compliant. There's absolutely *nothing* in the standard that says you have to support any locale except the C locale (which we do). If something has to be documented, it's probably that we just support 8 bit locales for now... That said, this will eventually improve, and yes, this is a long road. If it was only the C library, it would be rather simple... To get back to the practical nature of my original request, if someone can let me know how to write French characters in a terminal (via an SSH connection) I would be very grateful. I would like to use a terminal emulator that uses UTF8 and I believe xterm does this but I can't find an OpenBSD package (or port) for it. // juan The xterm in OpenBSD can do it. It supports the utf8 option. You will need an editor that supports utf8 characters as well. Both vim and emacs do. There are lots of programs in ports that have fairly decent level of locale support. Heck, I can actually write japanese in OpenBSD, for instance, and that's a *whole lot* more complicated than just french characters. Thank you. I also have a need to be able to write UTF-8 on my non-X systems. Do you have any thoughts on the matter? // juan Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca
Re: When will OpenBSD support UTF8?
On Mon, Nov 05, 2007 at 04:06:21PM -0500, Juan Miscaro wrote: Thank you. I also have a need to be able to write UTF-8 on my non-X systems. Do you have any thoughts on the matter? // juan We don't have a console that supports utf8 for now. ncurses also needs some complicated update before it will be able to deal with wide characters... Things are not as easy as they would seem...
Re: When will OpenBSD support UTF8?
On Mon, Nov 05, 2007 at 10:16:39PM +0100, Marc Espie wrote: On Mon, Nov 05, 2007 at 04:06:21PM -0500, Juan Miscaro wrote: Thank you. I also have a need to be able to write UTF-8 on my non-X systems. Do you have any thoughts on the matter? We don't have a console that supports utf8 for now. ncurses also needs some complicated update before it will be able to deal with wide characters... Things are not as easy as they would seem... I'm sorry I can't just shut up and code, but if UTF-8 support is planned, could it be implemented in such a way that it doesn't cause a slow-down on old hardware if it is not needed. I ran into that on Debian when they defaulted to UTF-8. Luckily, I was able to remove their locales package after setting LANG=C; with locales and UTF-8 support, every app was very slow on my PII-233. Doug.
Re: When will OpenBSD support UTF8?
Hi, all. With Jung's patch(http://sigsegv.s25.xrea.com/distfiles/citrus/OpenBSD/), i can use Chinese Simp locale(zh_CN.GB18030) successfully, and can use scim(+pinyin) type Chinese now. Big thanks to Jung and Kevin Lo. And i also wrote a simple documentation(in Chinese) here: http://www.openbsdonly.org/thread-234-1-1.html -- Michael Bibby(Huangbin Zhang) RedHat + OpenBSD
Re: When will OpenBSD support UTF8?
it's not my patch , it's a Takehiko NOZAKI's patch ;-) http://sigsegv.s25.xrea.com/distfiles/citrus/OpenBSD/ he is a NetBSD's Citrus Developer. thanks - Jung
Re: When will OpenBSD support UTF8?
--- Paul Irofti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 11:22:53AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote: On 11/1/07, Juan Miscaro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi gang. Is there any priority for having OpenBSD support UTF8? // peter utf-8 isn't an OS-level thing. You need to do it in every app. Googling, the first result brings up http://osdir.com/ml/os.openbsd.ports/2004-02/msg00376.html as an example. The sad thing is that the man pages don't mention that OpenBSD's libc doesn't quite support locale, multibyte/wide char conversions thus Unicode. E.g. if you look at mbstowcs(3) you'd say: okay, I can use that... but looking at the code behind it you'll see its a pure stab that does a simple memcpy from chars to ints (or wchar_ts as they modernly call it in C99). To get back to the practical nature of my original request, if someone can let me know how to write French characters in a terminal (via an SSH connection) I would be very grateful. I would like to use a terminal emulator that uses UTF8 and I believe xterm does this but I can't find an OpenBSD package (or port) for it. // juan Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca
Re: When will OpenBSD support UTF8?
On 11/2/07, Juan Miscaro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Paul Irofti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 11:22:53AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote: On 11/1/07, Juan Miscaro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi gang. Is there any priority for having OpenBSD support UTF8? // peter utf-8 isn't an OS-level thing. You need to do it in every app. Googling, the first result brings up http://osdir.com/ml/os.openbsd.ports/2004-02/msg00376.html as an example. The sad thing is that the man pages don't mention that OpenBSD's libc doesn't quite support locale, multibyte/wide char conversions thus Unicode. E.g. if you look at mbstowcs(3) you'd say: okay, I can use that... but looking at the code behind it you'll see its a pure stab that does a simple memcpy from chars to ints (or wchar_ts as they modernly call it in C99). To get back to the practical nature of my original request, if someone can let me know how to write French characters in a terminal (via an SSH connection) I would be very grateful. I would like to use a terminal emulator that uses UTF8 and I believe xterm does this but I can't find an OpenBSD package (or port) for it. xterm comes with OpenBSD. just run 'xterm' You could try rxvt (which is in packages) if that doesn't work for some reason. -Nick
Re: When will OpenBSD support UTF8?
On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 11:22:53AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote: On 11/1/07, Juan Miscaro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi gang. Is there any priority for having OpenBSD support UTF8? // peter utf-8 isn't an OS-level thing. You need to do it in every app. Googling, the first result brings up http://osdir.com/ml/os.openbsd.ports/2004-02/msg00376.html as an example. The sad thing is that the man pages don't mention that OpenBSD's libc doesn't quite support locale, multibyte/wide char conversions thus Unicode. E.g. if you look at mbstowcs(3) you'd say: okay, I can use that... but looking at the code behind it you'll see its a pure stab that does a simple memcpy from chars to ints (or wchar_ts as they modernly call it in C99).
Re: When will OpenBSD support UTF8?
On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 07:41:35AM -0400, Juan Miscaro wrote: --- Paul Irofti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 11:22:53AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote: On 11/1/07, Juan Miscaro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi gang. Is there any priority for having OpenBSD support UTF8? // peter utf-8 isn't an OS-level thing. You need to do it in every app. Googling, the first result brings up http://osdir.com/ml/os.openbsd.ports/2004-02/msg00376.html as an example. The sad thing is that the man pages don't mention that OpenBSD's libc doesn't quite support locale, multibyte/wide char conversions thus Unicode. E.g. if you look at mbstowcs(3) you'd say: okay, I can use that... but looking at the code behind it you'll see its a pure stab that does a simple memcpy from chars to ints (or wchar_ts as they modernly call it in C99). You would REALLY be surprised how much of a difference this `simple stub' does... it allows us to compile *a lot* of code that helps support utf8 in ports land. And in reality, this part of OpenBSD is C99-compliant. There's absolutely *nothing* in the standard that says you have to support any locale except the C locale (which we do). If something has to be documented, it's probably that we just support 8 bit locales for now... That said, this will eventually improve, and yes, this is a long road. If it was only the C library, it would be rather simple... To get back to the practical nature of my original request, if someone can let me know how to write French characters in a terminal (via an SSH connection) I would be very grateful. I would like to use a terminal emulator that uses UTF8 and I believe xterm does this but I can't find an OpenBSD package (or port) for it. // juan The xterm in OpenBSD can do it. It supports the utf8 option. You will need an editor that supports utf8 characters as well. Both vim and emacs do. There are lots of programs in ports that have fairly decent level of locale support. Heck, I can actually write japanese in OpenBSD, for instance, and that's a *whole lot* more complicated than just french characters.
Re: When will OpenBSD support UTF8?
i wrote a previous e-mail about use of UTF-8 on [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you want to use a UTF-8 on OpenBSD, you can reference patches on some sites. (one is a kevlo's previous citrus patch, other site is a Takehiko NOZAKI 's home) http://web.archive.org/web/20040604124636/www.kevlo.org/patch-src_citrus http://sigsegv.s25.xrea.com/distfiles/citrus/OpenBSD/ thanks - Jung
Re: When will OpenBSD support UTF8?
On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 09:03:31PM +0100, Marc Espie wrote: On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 07:41:35AM -0400, Juan Miscaro wrote: --- Paul Irofti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 11:22:53AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote: On 11/1/07, Juan Miscaro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any priority for having OpenBSD support UTF8? utf-8 isn't an OS-level thing. You need to do it in every app. Googling, the first result brings up http://osdir.com/ml/os.openbsd.ports/2004-02/msg00376.html as an example. The sad thing is that the man pages don't mention that OpenBSD's libc doesn't quite support locale, multibyte/wide char conversions thus Unicode. E.g. if you look at mbstowcs(3) you'd say: okay, I can use that... but looking at the code behind it you'll see its a pure stab that does a simple memcpy from chars to ints (or wchar_ts as they modernly call it in C99). You would REALLY be surprised how much of a difference this `simple stub' does... it allows us to compile *a lot* of code that helps support utf8 in ports land. And in reality, this part of OpenBSD is C99-compliant. There's absolutely *nothing* in the standard that says you have to support any locale except the C locale (which we do). If something has to be documented, it's probably that we just support 8 bit locales for now... That said, this will eventually improve, and yes, this is a long road. If it was only the C library, it would be rather simple... To get back to the practical nature of my original request, if someone can let me know how to write French characters in a terminal (via an SSH connection) I would be very grateful. I would like to use a terminal emulator that uses UTF8 and I believe xterm does this but I can't find an OpenBSD package (or port) for it. // juan The xterm in OpenBSD can do it. It supports the utf8 option. You will need an editor that supports utf8 characters as well. Both vim and emacs do. There are lots of programs in ports that have fairly decent level of locale support. Heck, I can actually write japanese in OpenBSD, for instance, and that's a *whole lot* more complicated than just french characters. Would supporting UTF-8 in OpenBSD change the apparent speed at which it runs on older hardware? Debian Etch does UTF-8 by default and it crawls on my P-II; they told me it was because of UTF-8 and locales support. I changed the locale to C and removed the locales support and it speeded up dramatically. That type of tweaking of a base install isn't as easy in OpenBSD. Doug.
When will OpenBSD support UTF8?
Hi gang. Is there any priority for having OpenBSD support UTF8? // peter Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca
Re: When will OpenBSD support UTF8?
On 11/1/07, Juan Miscaro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi gang. Is there any priority for having OpenBSD support UTF8? // peter utf-8 isn't an OS-level thing. You need to do it in every app. Googling, the first result brings up http://osdir.com/ml/os.openbsd.ports/2004-02/msg00376.html as an example.
Re: When will OpenBSD support UTF8?
--- Nick Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/1/07, Juan Miscaro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi gang. Is there any priority for having OpenBSD support UTF8? // peter utf-8 isn't an OS-level thing. You need to do it in every app. Googling, the first result brings up http://osdir.com/ml/os.openbsd.ports/2004-02/msg00376.html as an example. Thanks. I saw that post before resorting to the list but as it was 3.5 years ago I thought its info had a good chance of being outdated.
Re: When will OpenBSD support UTF8?
utf-8 isn't an OS-level thing. You need to do it in every app. I think he talked about OpenBSD locale support in libc. -- Michael Bibby RedHat + OpenBSD
