Re: [Mixxx-devel] launchpad bugtracker - please add to wiki page

2017-11-17 Thread Sean M. Pappalardo - D.J. Pegasus 
Everyone please take a look at the list of problems with LP at the top
of https://mixxx.org/wiki/doku.php/launchpad_migration and add any you
feel are missing.

After a few days, I'll create bugs for each (and link them to an
"Improve/Replace Launchpad" blueprint ;) ) then we can all vote on those
that matter most to us as a fair way of prioritizing the needs. That
will make the decision process easier.

Sincerely,
Sean M. Pappalardo
"D.J. Pegasus"
Mixxx Developer - Controller Specialist



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Re: [Mixxx-devel] launchpad bugtracker

2017-11-17 Thread Daniel Schürmann 

Sure. The only problem is that we would have no way to communicate back to the 
user (since the bug filer would be a bot account) without having to create a 
separate E-mail thread. That would be quite a step backwards, especially since 
it's not hard (anymore) to create an LP account. (Plus if we make it too easy 
to file, we'll get low-quality bug reports.)


Yes, we could add the email address to the form, but publishing it on 
Launchpad is probably an unwanted side effect.


And Hey, If the user cannot effort the time to sign in to Launchpad, why 
should we effort time to fix the bug he is suffering. :-P




Am 17.11.2017 um 17:18 schrieb Sean M. Pappalardo - D.J. Pegasus:


On 11/17/2017 06:37 AM, Daniel Schürmann wrote:

Here it is hard to rule GitHub. Nearly every developer has a GitHub
account, and it is just click to clone Mixxx and starting to
contribute.

GitLab does offer login with a GitHub account, FWIW.


For Launchpad bug, suffers the same. Registering a second account is
anoying, and stops user from filing bugs.

On that note, I'm working on consolidating logins as much as possible.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/mixxx/+bug/1732715
My plan is to get down to two: Launchpad and GitHub. (Because neither of
those allow authentication from another provider.)


On the other Hand Launchpad has our history, and no other tool offers
the same rich bug states, that we have adopted in our process.

To wit, we started using LP for bug tracking even before we moved the
code there.


We have hundreds cross linkes, between GitHub, Forum, Wiki, and
Launchpad. Losing this had to be well considered compared to some
missing convenient features.

I totally agree. Never mind the work it would take to do a migration,
work that would be better spent on Mixxx itself, IMO.

So the question is: how much more productive would we be if bug and
blueprint tracking was integrated with code hosting? Put another way,
how much is the current separation impairing productivity?

(Keep in mind that Launchpad supports Git now, so it would be possible
to move code hosting back there, solving this particular concern.)


Filing Bug inside Mixxx would be the most convenient solution.

Sure. The only problem is that we would have no way to communicate back
to the user (since the bug filer would be a bot account) without having
to create a separate E-mail thread. That would be quite a step
backwards, especially since it's not hard (anymore) to create an LP
account. (Plus if we make it too easy to file, we'll get low-quality bug
reports.)

We already have the "submit feedback" Google form which seems to be
working well as it has hundreds of responses. (I need to check on how to
publish them.) And indeed some are not useful.


Launchpad offers to communicate via email. Maybe there is a solution
to send Emails from Mixxx to Launchpad?

Even better, it has a full Web API: https://help.launchpad.net/API/
(Which could be used for migration too.)

Sincerely,
Sean M. Pappalardo
"D.J. Pegasus"
Mixxx Developer - Controller Specialist



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Re: [Mixxx-devel] launchpad bugtracker

2017-11-17 Thread Sean M. Pappalardo - D.J. Pegasus 


On 11/17/2017 06:37 AM, Daniel Schürmann wrote:
> Here it is hard to rule GitHub. Nearly every developer has a GitHub 
> account, and it is just click to clone Mixxx and starting to
> contribute.

GitLab does offer login with a GitHub account, FWIW.

> For Launchpad bug, suffers the same. Registering a second account is 
> anoying, and stops user from filing bugs.

On that note, I'm working on consolidating logins as much as possible.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/mixxx/+bug/1732715
My plan is to get down to two: Launchpad and GitHub. (Because neither of
those allow authentication from another provider.)

> On the other Hand Launchpad has our history, and no other tool offers
> the same rich bug states, that we have adopted in our process.

To wit, we started using LP for bug tracking even before we moved the
code there.

> We have hundreds cross linkes, between GitHub, Forum, Wiki, and
> Launchpad. Losing this had to be well considered compared to some
> missing convenient features.

I totally agree. Never mind the work it would take to do a migration,
work that would be better spent on Mixxx itself, IMO.

So the question is: how much more productive would we be if bug and
blueprint tracking was integrated with code hosting? Put another way,
how much is the current separation impairing productivity?

(Keep in mind that Launchpad supports Git now, so it would be possible
to move code hosting back there, solving this particular concern.)

> Filing Bug inside Mixxx would be the most convenient solution.

Sure. The only problem is that we would have no way to communicate back
to the user (since the bug filer would be a bot account) without having
to create a separate E-mail thread. That would be quite a step
backwards, especially since it's not hard (anymore) to create an LP
account. (Plus if we make it too easy to file, we'll get low-quality bug
reports.)

We already have the "submit feedback" Google form which seems to be
working well as it has hundreds of responses. (I need to check on how to
publish them.) And indeed some are not useful.

> Launchpad offers to communicate via email. Maybe there is a solution
> to send Emails from Mixxx to Launchpad?

Even better, it has a full Web API: https://help.launchpad.net/API/
(Which could be used for migration too.)

Sincerely,
Sean M. Pappalardo
"D.J. Pegasus"
Mixxx Developer - Controller Specialist



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Re: [Mixxx-devel] launchpad bugtracker

2017-11-17 Thread Sébastien BLAISOT 

We already have CI that every forker can use to test before PR.

just connect to travis-ci and appveyor with your github account, select 
your fork, and you're done & you have CI on your fork.


we could be easier without the need to first register to travis and 
appveyor, but it works well, I use it each time I push a commit.


I think on user experience, github does the job.

The only unfriendly thing is our bug tracker but daniel clearly 
expressed the problems of a migration.



sb


Le 17/11/2017 à 11:54, Daniel Poelzleithner a écrit :

On 11/17/17 11:38, Be wrote:
What projects have you used GitLab for? What do you like about it 
compared to GitHub?


I used it in my previous and current company for internal projects. I 
was even the administrator in the previous one doing the upgrades etc.
Mostly small internal projects that all got tested through CI. Mostly 
coookbooks for chef and smaller daemons.


I like that it's open source and their development goes into the right 
direction ^^


To be honest, I don't care that much. I think the most important part 
is, that it feels integrated and is easy for a newcomer to fork and 
create a pull request. In the best case, a fork automatically gets CI 
testing so the dev knows before creating a PR that the patch works.


The only drawback I see is the missing social network effect you get 
through github.



kind regards
  poelzi

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Re: [Mixxx-devel] launchpad bugtracker

2017-11-17 Thread Daniel Schürmann 
GitLab looks great. Unfortunately the last feature does not count.
What counts is getting things done.

Here it is hard to rule GitHub. Nearly every developer has a GitHub
account, and it is just click to clone Mixxx and starting to contribute.

If we ever leave GitHub, we will suffer the same issue, other non GitHub
hosted Apps have: maintaining an unofficial GitHub clone.

For Launchpad bug, suffers the same. Registering a second account is
anoying, and stops user from filing bugs.

On the other Hand Launchpad has our history, and no other tool offers the
same rich bug states, that we have adopted in our process.

Unlike moving distributed git repros around, bug tracking is a single
server solution were we will loose data migrating to other services.
We have hundreds cross linkes, between GitHub, Forum, Wiki, and Launchpad.
Losing this had to be well considered compared to some missing convenient
features.

For Bug, being on GitHub is IMHO not that important, because only the
minority of users have an GitHub account.

Filing Bug inside Mixxx would be the most convenient solution.

Launchpad offers to communicate via email. Maybe there is a solution to
send Emails from Mixxx to Launchpad?
Or Launchpad questions? Or to the forums ...

What do you think?

Am 17.11.2017 11:54 vorm. schrieb "Daniel Poelzleithner" :

> On 11/17/17 11:38, Be wrote:
>
>> What projects have you used GitLab for? What do you like about it
>> compared to GitHub?
>>
>
> I used it in my previous and current company for internal projects. I was
> even the administrator in the previous one doing the upgrades etc.
> Mostly small internal projects that all got tested through CI. Mostly
> coookbooks for chef and smaller daemons.
>
> I like that it's open source and their development goes into the right
> direction ^^
>
> To be honest, I don't care that much. I think the most important part is,
> that it feels integrated and is easy for a newcomer to fork and create a
> pull request. In the best case, a fork automatically gets CI testing so the
> dev knows before creating a PR that the patch works.
>
> The only drawback I see is the missing social network effect you get
> through github.
>
>
> kind regards
>   poelzi
>
> 
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> http://mixxx.org
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Re: [Mixxx-devel] launchpad bugtracker

2017-11-17 Thread Daniel Poelzleithner 

On 11/17/17 11:38, Be wrote:
What projects have you used GitLab for? What do you like about it 
compared to GitHub?


I used it in my previous and current company for internal projects. I 
was even the administrator in the previous one doing the upgrades etc.
Mostly small internal projects that all got tested through CI. Mostly 
coookbooks for chef and smaller daemons.


I like that it's open source and their development goes into the right 
direction ^^


To be honest, I don't care that much. I think the most important part 
is, that it feels integrated and is easy for a newcomer to fork and 
create a pull request. In the best case, a fork automatically gets CI 
testing so the dev knows before creating a PR that the patch works.


The only drawback I see is the missing social network effect you get 
through github.



kind regards
  poelzi

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Re: [Mixxx-devel] launchpad bugtracker

2017-11-17 Thread Be 
What projects have you used GitLab for? What do you like about it 
compared to GitHub?


On 11/17/2017 04:35 AM, Daniel Poelzleithner wrote:

Hi,

 > That arcane and bizarre process for applying to use it for an open
 > source project is immediately off-putting to me and gives me little
 > confidence in the UX design of the software.

we could consider gitlab as a all inclusive solution. Used it for years 
now and it's a good to use peace of software that is under constant 
development. We can very easily run our own CI as well if we need to.



kind regards
  poelzi

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Re: [Mixxx-devel] launchpad bugtracker

2017-11-17 Thread Daniel Poelzleithner 

Hi,

> That arcane and bizarre process for applying to use it for an open
> source project is immediately off-putting to me and gives me little
> confidence in the UX design of the software.

we could consider gitlab as a all inclusive solution. Used it for years 
now and it's a good to use peace of software that is under constant 
development. We can very easily run our own CI as well if we need to.



kind regards
 poelzi

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Re: [Mixxx-devel] launchpad bugtracker

2017-11-16 Thread Be 
That arcane and bizarre process for applying to use it for an open 
source project is immediately off-putting to me and gives me little 
confidence in the UX design of the software.


On 11/17/2017 01:12 AM, Sébastien Blaisot wrote:

Le 16/11/2017 à 18:44, Sean M. Pappalardo - D.J. Pegasus a écrit :

On 11/16/2017 09:11 AM, Daniel Poelzleithner wrote:

is there a particular reason from using the launchpad bug tracker
anything other then historic reasons ?

It does some things better than GitHub Issues. I have created a wiki
page to enumerate the problems people have with it as well as pros and
cons for possible replacements. Please feel free to add any other points
you think should be considered so we can make an informed decision.

https://mixxx.org/wiki/doku.php/launchpad_migration

Thanks for your input, everyone!


We can also consider Jira (cloud, hosted version) which is free for open 
source project: 
https://www.atlassian.com/software/views/open-source-license-request


One of the most powerful software I have been working with.

sb

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Re: [Mixxx-devel] launchpad bugtracker

2017-11-16 Thread Sébastien Blaisot 

Le 16/11/2017 à 18:44, Sean M. Pappalardo - D.J. Pegasus a écrit :

On 11/16/2017 09:11 AM, Daniel Poelzleithner wrote:

is there a particular reason from using the launchpad bug tracker
anything other then historic reasons ?

It does some things better than GitHub Issues. I have created a wiki
page to enumerate the problems people have with it as well as pros and
cons for possible replacements. Please feel free to add any other points
you think should be considered so we can make an informed decision.

https://mixxx.org/wiki/doku.php/launchpad_migration

Thanks for your input, everyone!


We can also consider Jira (cloud, hosted version) which is free for open 
source project: 
https://www.atlassian.com/software/views/open-source-license-request


One of the most powerful software I have been working with.

sb

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Re: [Mixxx-devel] launchpad bugtracker

2017-11-16 Thread Be 
I took a closer look at GitLab and I'm pretty convinced we should switch 
to it for issue tracking, code hosting, and continuous integration after 
the 2.1 release. It has come a long way in the last few years and seems 
to be better than GitHub at this point. I have compiled a list of 
GitLab's features that I think would be useful for Mixxx:

https://mixxx.org/wiki/doku.php/launchpad_migration#gitlab

Personally I think the way it handles comments, with threaded discussion 
on issues and merge requests that can be marked as resolved, and the 
ease of moving discussion from merge requests to issues, seems like a 
big advantage over GitHub. I think this would make reviewing large 
branches smoother.


On 11/16/2017 05:14 PM, Joan Marcè i Igual wrote:

Hi,

has anyone taken a look at GitLab and what may be the pros and cons 
compared to the other issue trackers?


Regards,
Joan

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 at 19:18 Radu Suciu > wrote:


Regarding disadvantages of GitHub

*Doesn't explicitly support rich states other than just open/closed*
If for progress tracking - milestones are great for this.

*Not possible to link related issues*
Maybe not in the same way, but you can links commits to issues in a
really nice way

*Not possible to specify different kinds of relationships
(parent/child, predecessor/successor, duplicates, etc.)*
Is this even needed? Seems cool to have an issue "tree" but it may
also be just additional complication.
*
Someone needs to commit to managing migration*
This would probably be pretty annoying

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 9:44 AM, Sean M. Pappalardo - D.J. Pegasus
> wrote:



On 11/16/2017 09:11 AM, Daniel Poelzleithner wrote:
> is there a particular reason from using the launchpad bug tracker
> anything other then historic reasons ?

It does some things better than GitHub Issues. I have created a wiki
page to enumerate the problems people have with it as well as
pros and
cons for possible replacements. Please feel free to add any
other points
you think should be considered so we can make an informed decision.

https://mixxx.org/wiki/doku.php/launchpad_migration

Thanks for your input, everyone!

Sincerely,
Sean M. Pappalardo
"D.J. Pegasus"
Mixxx Developer - Controller Specialist



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Re: [Mixxx-devel] launchpad bugtracker

2017-11-16 Thread Be 
Of course. It would be silly to switch to GitLab for issues without also 
switching to it for code hosting. Looking more at GitLab, it seems to 
have quite a few nice features that GitHub does not. I am working on 
comparing them on the wiki, feel free to contribute:

https://mixxx.org/wiki/doku.php/launchpad_migration

On 11/16/2017 08:00 PM, Radu Suciu wrote:
Moving to gitlab for issues while sticking to github for code would come 
with all the annoyances of having to switch systems without any of the 
benefits of having code and issues in the same place..


On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Sean M. Pappalardo - D.J. Pegasus 
> wrote:




On 11/16/2017 03:14 PM, Joan Marcè i Igual wrote:
> has anyone taken a look at GitLab and what may be the pros and cons
> compared to the other issue trackers?

It looks like RJ did awhile back, around the time we were looking to
move to git: https://gitlab.com/mixxxcommunity

(The branches in there look like what we had in Bazaar at the time.)

RJ, what did you think at the time? How does GitLab look to you today?


Sincerely,
Sean M. Pappalardo
"D.J. Pegasus"
Mixxx Developer - Controller Specialist



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Re: [Mixxx-devel] launchpad bugtracker

2017-11-16 Thread Radu Suciu 
Moving to gitlab for issues while sticking to github for code would come
with all the annoyances of having to switch systems without any of the
benefits of having code and issues in the same place..

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Sean M. Pappalardo - D.J. Pegasus <
spappala...@mixxx.org> wrote:

>
>
> On 11/16/2017 03:14 PM, Joan Marcè i Igual wrote:
> > has anyone taken a look at GitLab and what may be the pros and cons
> > compared to the other issue trackers?
>
> It looks like RJ did awhile back, around the time we were looking to
> move to git: https://gitlab.com/mixxxcommunity
> (The branches in there look like what we had in Bazaar at the time.)
>
> RJ, what did you think at the time? How does GitLab look to you today?
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Sean M. Pappalardo
> "D.J. Pegasus"
> Mixxx Developer - Controller Specialist
>
>
> 
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Re: [Mixxx-devel] launchpad bugtracker

2017-11-16 Thread Sean M. Pappalardo - D.J. Pegasus 


On 11/16/2017 03:14 PM, Joan Marcè i Igual wrote:
> has anyone taken a look at GitLab and what may be the pros and cons
> compared to the other issue trackers?

It looks like RJ did awhile back, around the time we were looking to
move to git: https://gitlab.com/mixxxcommunity
(The branches in there look like what we had in Bazaar at the time.)

RJ, what did you think at the time? How does GitLab look to you today?


Sincerely,
Sean M. Pappalardo
"D.J. Pegasus"
Mixxx Developer - Controller Specialist



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Re: [Mixxx-devel] launchpad bugtracker

2017-11-16 Thread Be 
Yeah, GitLab and GitHub are similar AFAIK. I think GitLab lagged behind 
GitHub in features in the past but they're pretty even at this point. I 
like that the GitLab server software is free, so I'd personally start a 
new project on GitLab, but I haven't found a convincing reason why it 
would be worth the effort to switch from GitHub to GitLab. I have heard 
that GitLab has had some issues with uptime in the past whereas GitHub 
is very reliable.


On 11/16/2017 05:14 PM, Joan Marcè i Igual wrote:

Hi,

has anyone taken a look at GitLab and what may be the pros and cons 
compared to the other issue trackers?


Regards,
Joan

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 at 19:18 Radu Suciu > wrote:


Regarding disadvantages of GitHub

*Doesn't explicitly support rich states other than just open/closed*
If for progress tracking - milestones are great for this.

*Not possible to link related issues*
Maybe not in the same way, but you can links commits to issues in a
really nice way

*Not possible to specify different kinds of relationships
(parent/child, predecessor/successor, duplicates, etc.)*
Is this even needed? Seems cool to have an issue "tree" but it may
also be just additional complication.
*
Someone needs to commit to managing migration*
This would probably be pretty annoying

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 9:44 AM, Sean M. Pappalardo - D.J. Pegasus
> wrote:



On 11/16/2017 09:11 AM, Daniel Poelzleithner wrote:
> is there a particular reason from using the launchpad bug tracker
> anything other then historic reasons ?

It does some things better than GitHub Issues. I have created a wiki
page to enumerate the problems people have with it as well as
pros and
cons for possible replacements. Please feel free to add any
other points
you think should be considered so we can make an informed decision.

https://mixxx.org/wiki/doku.php/launchpad_migration

Thanks for your input, everyone!

Sincerely,
Sean M. Pappalardo
"D.J. Pegasus"
Mixxx Developer - Controller Specialist



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Re: [Mixxx-devel] launchpad bugtracker

2017-11-16 Thread Joan Marcè i Igual 
Hi,

has anyone taken a look at GitLab and what may be the pros and cons
compared to the other issue trackers?

Regards,
Joan

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 at 19:18 Radu Suciu  wrote:

> Regarding disadvantages of GitHub
>
> *Doesn't explicitly support rich states other than just open/closed*
> If for progress tracking - milestones are great for this.
>
> *Not possible to link related issues*
> Maybe not in the same way, but you can links commits to issues in a really
> nice way
>
> *Not possible to specify different kinds of relationships (parent/child,
> predecessor/successor, duplicates, etc.)*
> Is this even needed? Seems cool to have an issue "tree" but it may also be
> just additional complication.
>
> *Someone needs to commit to managing migration*
> This would probably be pretty annoying
>
> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 9:44 AM, Sean M. Pappalardo - D.J. Pegasus <
> spappala...@mixxx.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 11/16/2017 09:11 AM, Daniel Poelzleithner wrote:
>> > is there a particular reason from using the launchpad bug tracker
>> > anything other then historic reasons ?
>>
>> It does some things better than GitHub Issues. I have created a wiki
>> page to enumerate the problems people have with it as well as pros and
>> cons for possible replacements. Please feel free to add any other points
>> you think should be considered so we can make an informed decision.
>>
>> https://mixxx.org/wiki/doku.php/launchpad_migration
>>
>> Thanks for your input, everyone!
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Sean M. Pappalardo
>> "D.J. Pegasus"
>> Mixxx Developer - Controller Specialist
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> ___
>> Get Mixxx, the #1 Free MP3 DJ Mixing software Today
>> http://mixxx.org
>>
>>
>> Mixxx-devel mailing list
>> Mixxx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mixxx-devel
>>
>
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Get Mixxx, the #1 Free MP3 DJ Mixing software Today
> http://mixxx.org
>
>
> Mixxx-devel mailing list
> Mixxx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mixxx-devel
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Re: [Mixxx-devel] launchpad bugtracker

2017-11-16 Thread Radu Suciu 
Regarding disadvantages of GitHub

*Doesn't explicitly support rich states other than just open/closed*
If for progress tracking - milestones are great for this.

*Not possible to link related issues*
Maybe not in the same way, but you can links commits to issues in a really
nice way

*Not possible to specify different kinds of relationships (parent/child,
predecessor/successor, duplicates, etc.)*
Is this even needed? Seems cool to have an issue "tree" but it may also be
just additional complication.

*Someone needs to commit to managing migration*
This would probably be pretty annoying

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 9:44 AM, Sean M. Pappalardo - D.J. Pegasus <
spappala...@mixxx.org> wrote:

>
>
> On 11/16/2017 09:11 AM, Daniel Poelzleithner wrote:
> > is there a particular reason from using the launchpad bug tracker
> > anything other then historic reasons ?
>
> It does some things better than GitHub Issues. I have created a wiki
> page to enumerate the problems people have with it as well as pros and
> cons for possible replacements. Please feel free to add any other points
> you think should be considered so we can make an informed decision.
>
> https://mixxx.org/wiki/doku.php/launchpad_migration
>
> Thanks for your input, everyone!
>
> Sincerely,
> Sean M. Pappalardo
> "D.J. Pegasus"
> Mixxx Developer - Controller Specialist
>
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Get Mixxx, the #1 Free MP3 DJ Mixing software Today
> http://mixxx.org
>
>
> Mixxx-devel mailing list
> Mixxx-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mixxx-devel
>
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Re: [Mixxx-devel] launchpad bugtracker

2017-11-16 Thread Sean M. Pappalardo - D.J. Pegasus 


On 11/16/2017 09:11 AM, Daniel Poelzleithner wrote:
> is there a particular reason from using the launchpad bug tracker
> anything other then historic reasons ?

It does some things better than GitHub Issues. I have created a wiki
page to enumerate the problems people have with it as well as pros and
cons for possible replacements. Please feel free to add any other points
you think should be considered so we can make an informed decision.

https://mixxx.org/wiki/doku.php/launchpad_migration

Thanks for your input, everyone!

Sincerely,
Sean M. Pappalardo
"D.J. Pegasus"
Mixxx Developer - Controller Specialist



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