Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl at eToys
One important thing THERE IS ALREADY A P5EE MAILING LIST GUYS!! :) So basically if you want to add your feedback, go there! It's already done but it's not too late to add feedback. :) email ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 08:36 AM 10/29/2001, Medi Montaseri wrote: >Similarly, this concept of Enterprise is a bugus idea ... from a pure >computer science point of view, there is no such thing as an Enterprise. >This is all Microsoft's branding trying to associate themselves with >something big, and Sun is stupidly following it "A pure computer science point of view"... Well, very few things exist from a "pure" computer science point of view because it's based on low level algorithms typically. However, that does not mean models that encapsulate the complexity of all the algorithms put together in certain ways do not have or add value. The concept of the enterprise is a very real model of interpreting the world of IT and how to distinguish between a localized, single-protocol systems and an enterprise system. Enterprise being a Microsoft Branding term? I don't think believe that it came before Sun. Sun and Microsoft are not branding themselves the same way. And I believe that the term enterprise has been around for quite some years independent of Microsoft. However, because of the Java and Sun branding of J2EE, it is important that Perl and other languages come together to say how they fit the enterprise as well. Why is this important? Credibility. While it's true that many businesses do not require "enterprise" solutions, a business can feel more comfortable adopting a solution if they know that it can grow with them. For example, if I were to download a public domain web store, I would much prefer knowing that the ecommerce solution were used by Amazon.com because then I'd know that if my "ReeferOnline" store were to take off in Columbia, that it would scale and I wouldn't have to look for an alternative solution. Also, the fact that a larger corporation can use the application means that they've worked out security and other issues better than I, a small IT arm of a huge Drug Overlord, can afford the time and effort to check out. While not everyone may need these additional reassurances from a marketing point of view, the majority of the world does. >My vote is to come up with something more pure than trendy like >Enterprise. My vote is that anyone who doesn't like a name should be the first person to come up with an alternative idea rather than just negating it and asking for others to come up with the hard work of coming up with something different. :) Anyway, please do visit the P5EE list. There is also an archive of past posts so you can play catch up from the last week. http://archive.develooper.com/p5ee%40perl.org/
Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl at eToys
> At 02:28 PM 10/23/2001 -0400, Perrin Harkins wrote:
> >Stephen Adkins wrote:
> >> If no one suggests an appropriate list, I propose starting a "p2ee" group
> >Can I just say that P2EE is a horrible, horrible name? It includes the
> >Java version number (when is J3EE coming out?), as well as Sun's
> >desperate attempt to make it sound like something you buy ("Edition")
> >rather than simply a collection of APIs.
> >
> >Something simple, like Perl Enterprise Project or Perl Enterprise APIs
> >makes more sense to me.
> Several of you have made the same good point.
> And now the naming flame war has already begun... ;-)
>
> Unless there is violent opposition, the name will be
>
>Perl Enterprise Framework
>
> I would rather name it after the outcome (Framework)
> than the process (Project).
PEP is a much better acronym though.
No more Java beans: use PEP pills!
Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl at eToys
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I'm surprised that no one has, jokingly, suggested PEE. > > Sorry, couldn't resist. :) Neither could these people: http://pee.sourceforge.net/
Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl at eToys
At 03:38 AM 10/24/2001, Stephen Adkins wrote:
>At 02:28 PM 10/23/2001 -0400, Perrin Harkins wrote:
> >Stephen Adkins wrote:
> >
> >> If no one suggests an appropriate list, I propose starting a "p2ee" group
> >
> >
> >Can I just say that P2EE is a horrible, horrible name? It includes the
> >Java version number (when is J3EE coming out?), as well as Sun's
> >desperate attempt to make it sound like something you buy ("Edition")
> >rather than simply a collection of APIs.
> >
> >Something simple, like Perl Enterprise Project or Perl Enterprise APIs
> >makes more sense to me.
>
>Hi,
>
>Several of you have made the same good point.
>And now the naming flame war has already begun... ;-)
>
>Unless there is violent opposition, the name will be
>
>Perl Enterprise Framework
>
>I would rather name it after the outcome (Framework)
>than the process (Project).
>
>The mailing list will be
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (preferred)
>or
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in case Nathan already has it set up)
>
>If this seems reasonable, let's not flood the list with "ok with me"
>messages or "how about 'foo'?" messages.
>
>Stephen
I think this name and mailing list is excellent and much better than P2EE.
The mere fact that there is an endorsed perl.org mailing list for people
who wish to ask about enterprise issues (even without a specific standard)
is a huge step further in terms of making people aware that Perl CAN BE
used for the enterprise.
That is, there is a definite perception difference between
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] has a
perception of being endorsed as a place for a standard rather than just a
single couple of people's ideas on sourceforge.com (of which there are
thousands) and is likely to get more attention.
Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl at eToys
I'm surprised that no one has, jokingly, suggested PEE. Sorry, couldn't resist. :) -- === "If you put three drops of poison into a 100 percent pure Java, you get - Windows. If you put a few drops of Java into Windows, you still have Windows." -- Sun Microsystems CEO, Scott McNealy __ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl at eToys
"Robert Landrum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ... A name is pretty important > and if it's acronym isn't easily recognized, it isn't going to gain > the support of developers. J2EE is catchy, so we need something > catchy. PEF isn't nearly as catchy as P2EE or P5EE or PEA (Perl > Enterprise API), but maybe I'm just crazy. howsabout: p5ice ? Perl 5 Integrated Classes for the Enterprise or mebbe: Interface Client for Enterprises possibly: Insane Community of Entrepeneurs or even: Icky Commercialized Edition i can already see all the cool "Ice-ey" perl logos with icicles hanging from their frosted fonts :-) -dave
Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl at eToys
At 3:38 PM -0400 10/23/01, Stephen Adkins wrote: >Several of you have made the same good point. >And now the naming flame war has already begun... ;-) This is a discussion. Something has been proposed and it needs a name. I'd hardly call this a flame war. A name is pretty important and if it's acronym isn't easily recognized, it isn't going to gain the support of developers. J2EE is catchy, so we need something catchy. PEF isn't nearly as catchy as P2EE or P5EE or PEA (Perl Enterprise API), but maybe I'm just crazy. Rob -- "Only two things are infinite: The universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein
Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl at eToys
At 02:28 PM 10/23/2001 -0400, Perrin Harkins wrote:
>Stephen Adkins wrote:
>
>> If no one suggests an appropriate list, I propose starting a "p2ee" group
>
>
>Can I just say that P2EE is a horrible, horrible name? It includes the
>Java version number (when is J3EE coming out?), as well as Sun's
>desperate attempt to make it sound like something you buy ("Edition")
>rather than simply a collection of APIs.
>
>Something simple, like Perl Enterprise Project or Perl Enterprise APIs
>makes more sense to me.
Hi,
Several of you have made the same good point.
And now the naming flame war has already begun... ;-)
Unless there is violent opposition, the name will be
Perl Enterprise Framework
I would rather name it after the outcome (Framework)
than the process (Project).
The mailing list will be
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (preferred)
or
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in case Nathan already has it set up)
If this seems reasonable, let's not flood the list with "ok with me"
messages or "how about 'foo'?" messages.
Stephen
RE: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl at eToys
PEP! (Perl Enterprise Project)! I like it!
Paul E Wilt
Principal Software Engineer
XanEdu, Inc. (division of Proquest Information and Learning)
http://www.xanedu.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
300 North Zeeb Rd Phone: (734) 302-6545 (800) 218-5971 x6545
Ann Arbor, MI 48106Fax: (734) 975-6440
-Original Message-
From: Perrin Harkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 2:28 PM
To: Stephen Adkins
Cc: mod_perl List
Subject: Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl at
eToys
Stephen Adkins wrote:
> If no one suggests an appropriate list, I propose starting a "p2ee" group
Can I just say that P2EE is a horrible, horrible name? It includes the
Java version number (when is J3EE coming out?), as well as Sun's
desperate attempt to make it sound like something you buy ("Edition")
rather than simply a collection of APIs.
Something simple, like Perl Enterprise Project or Perl Enterprise APIs
makes more sense to me.
- Perrin
Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl at eToys
Stephen Adkins wrote:
> If no one suggests an appropriate list, I propose starting a "p2ee" group
Can I just say that P2EE is a horrible, horrible name? It includes the
Java version number (when is J3EE coming out?), as well as Sun's
desperate attempt to make it sound like something you buy ("Edition")
rather than simply a collection of APIs.
Something simple, like Perl Enterprise Project or Perl Enterprise APIs
makes more sense to me.
- Perrin
Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl at eToys
Stephen Adkins writes: > That would be great (as long as perl.org can host the CVS too). > My concern was that perl.org might not be as specialized in hosting > development teams as sourceforge.net. Do you support "viewcvs" > or similar for web browsing of the CVS repository? cvsweb. You can see what we've got at cvs.perl.org. I'll ask Ask to add the list and repository. Cheers; Nat
Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl at eToys
Nathan, At 11:06 AM 10/23/2001 -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote: >Stephen Adkins writes: >> If no one suggests an appropriate list, I propose starting a "p2ee" group >> on SourceForge. This gives us mailing lists and a CVS repository for the >> artifacts of the effort (which will mostly be specifications and >> documentation, with maybe some Bundle files). I would also submit the >> list information to "perl.org" for inclusion in the list of lists. > >We'd be glad to host it at perl.org. If that's cool with you, I'll >ask Ask to create the mailing list and CVS repository on perl.org. >Once we have something to show, we can get a website too. > >I'd imagine the CVS would include code we write, snapshots of which >would be periodically released to CPAN. Anyway, that's for the list >once we have it. > >Nat That would be great (as long as perl.org can host the CVS too). My concern was that perl.org might not be as specialized in hosting development teams as sourceforge.net. Do you support "viewcvs" or similar for web browsing of the CVS repository? Stephen
Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl at eToys
On Tuesday 23 October 2001 18:21, Stephen Adkins wrote: > This issue of a P2EE specification has come up before > (and I participated in the discussion), but since it is off-topic for > the mod_perl list, I would appreciate some referrals of where to go to > discuss this. > > If no one suggests an appropriate list, I propose starting a "p2ee" group > on SourceForge. This gives us mailing lists and a CVS repository for the > artifacts of the effort (which will mostly be specifications and > documentation, with maybe some Bundle files). I would also submit the > list information to "perl.org" for inclusion in the list of lists. FWIW, (given the fact that we're talking about talking about it, I guess it's the moment for more-or-less useless ideas) I'd prefer it not to be called p2ee. It sounds more like a copy thing, and copies aren't good. What about EnterPerl or something like that ? In any case, please create the specific list before we start discussing the name here ;-) -- ___ Robin Berjon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- CTO k n o w s c a p e : // venture knowledge agency www.knowscape.com --- Prediction is very difficult, especially of the future. -- Niels Bohr
Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl at eToys
Stephen Adkins writes: > If no one suggests an appropriate list, I propose starting a "p2ee" group > on SourceForge. This gives us mailing lists and a CVS repository for the > artifacts of the effort (which will mostly be specifications and > documentation, with maybe some Bundle files). I would also submit the > list information to "perl.org" for inclusion in the list of lists. We'd be glad to host it at perl.org. If that's cool with you, I'll ask Ask to create the mailing list and CVS repository on perl.org. Once we have something to show, we can get a website too. I'd imagine the CVS would include code we write, snapshots of which would be periodically released to CPAN. Anyway, that's for the list once we have it. Nat
[OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl at eToys
At 11:27 PM 10/23/2001 +0800, Gunther Birznieks wrote: >At 09:45 PM 10/23/2001, Perrin Harkins wrote: >>Matt Sergeant wrote: >>>OK, so what are we missing? ... >>Based on the comments I've seen here over the years, and some on Slashdot, >>the thing that seems to worry people the most is the lack of an obvious >>message queue API in Perl. I've seen plenty of implementations, but there >>isn't a plug-n-play CPAN module for this. Perhaps a port of JMS is in order. ... >I really would like to see a generally endorsed P2EE project which includes >SOAP::Lite as an interoperable webservices engine, a messaging engine, and >transaction engine. Authentication engine and Session engine would be quite >useful to include as well. Oh and Moseley's (sp?) servlets in Perl project >would be a cool one to include as well. That would make it compete pretty >much head to head with J2EE. Hi, This issue of a P2EE specification has come up before (and I participated in the discussion), but since it is off-topic for the mod_perl list, I would appreciate some referrals of where to go to discuss this. Last time this came up, I was referred to three different mailing lists (also, see http://lists.perl.org/). However, none of the lists were interested in the P2EE problem (including the PerlSDK list). If no one suggests an appropriate list, I propose starting a "p2ee" group on SourceForge. This gives us mailing lists and a CVS repository for the artifacts of the effort (which will mostly be specifications and documentation, with maybe some Bundle files). I would also submit the list information to "perl.org" for inclusion in the list of lists. Stephen
