Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
On Wednesday, 2002-10-09 at 18:22:24 -0400, Steve Grazzini wrote: On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 02:43:18PM -0700, Paul wrote: The company is making us migrate (some baloney about being legally vulnerable because we're using open source) If they won't let you use open-source tools, then the answer is definitely yes. (Perl is open-source.) As are all modules on CPAN. If they really mean this, you will have to rewrite in a language that has a closed-source compiler, using only modules that are not available in source. Do not use any code examples, too, just to be sure ... =:-| If you want to be sure you are implementing what *they* want, you better ask *them* where Open Source stops. Steve's point about perl being open source may be important for your career ;-) (As in Career-limiting move) And migrating from a relational database to LDAP might not be as obvious as... oh well. Depending on what you do, it may not even be suitable. LDAP organizes data hierarchically. It hangs attributes off objects. Generally, LDAP databases are slower than RDBMSes. HTH, Lupe Christoph -- | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.lupe-christoph.de/ | | Big Misunderstandings #6398: The Titanic was not supposed to be| | unsinkable. The designer had a speech impediment. He said: I have | | thith great unthinkable conthept ... |
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
*They* don't know what they mean, but we're getting a variance for Perl (supposedly). No such luck for mysql or apache --- Lupe Christoph [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday, 2002-10-09 at 18:22:24 -0400, Steve Grazzini wrote: On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 02:43:18PM -0700, Paul wrote: The company is making us migrate (some baloney about being legally vulnerable because we're using open source) If they won't let you use open-source tools, then the answer is definitely yes. (Perl is open-source.) As are all modules on CPAN. If they really mean this, you will have to rewrite in a language that has a closed-source compiler, using only modules that are not available in source. Do not use any code examples, too, just to be sure ... =:-| If you want to be sure you are implementing what *they* want, you better ask *them* where Open Source stops. Steve's point about perl being open source may be important for your career ;-) (As in Career-limiting move) And migrating from a relational database to LDAP might not be as obvious as... oh well. Depending on what you do, it may not even be suitable. LDAP organizes data hierarchically. It hangs attributes off objects. Generally, LDAP databases are slower than RDBMSes. HTH, Lupe Christoph -- | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.lupe-christoph.de/ | | Big Misunderstandings #6398: The Titanic was not supposed to be | | unsinkable. The designer had a speech impediment. He said: I have | | thith great unthinkable conthept ... | __ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos More http://faith.yahoo.com
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
FastCGI and PersistentPerl are both working equivalents to mod_perl with similar capabilities and performance. They should work just fine with iPlanet. Oh yeah Awesome. I will look into that. I don't see why that would be any different from what you currently have. Any state mechanism requires cookies, URLs, or hidden form values for maintaining at least a unique ID on the client side. There is no other way to do it. Agreed -- and I apologize for the confusion -- but I may be blowing smoke from my lack of knowledge, and misstating my thoughts because of false assumptions. What I mean is that before I had a custom access handler installed to use MySQL without resorting to state management other than the http NCSA Basic Authentication header, and I didn't think I'd be able to use those tools to emulate the same methodology, though I know I can get the same result with a redesign. Again, I don't understand what you think you're going to lose. All the basic data available under mod_perl is available under everything else as well, albeit with a slightly different API. Different is acceptable. Thanks, Perrin -- that sort of feedback is the reason lists are so handy. Paul __ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos More http://faith.yahoo.com
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
Paul wrote: What I mean is that before I had a custom access handler installed to use MySQL without resorting to state management other than the http NCSA Basic Authentication header You should be able to do that with FastCGI. Not sure about PersistentPerl. You'd have to ask the author. - Perrin
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
--- Perrin Harkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul wrote: What I mean is that before I had a custom access handler installed to use MySQL without resorting to state management other than the http NCSA Basic Authentication header You should be able to do that with FastCGI. Not sure about PersistentPerl. You'd have to ask the author. - Perrin Looks like the FastCGI binaries are only available for Windows versions. We'll be on Sun Solaris, but I can probably recompile the source, if that doesn't cause the open-source police to come get me. I still think we're miscommunicating, though. We weren't even using Apache::Registry; the CGI speed improvement of mod_perl is only of incidental interest to us. The API hooks were what we were using. FastCGI (as I understand it, e.g., from http://www.fastcgi.com/devkit/doc/fastcgi-whitepaper/fastcgi.htm ) doesn't offer any API, though the iPlanet version at http://www.caraveo.com/fastcgi/ seems to be implemented with NSAPI in such a way that it *sort* of does anyway. It's theoretically *better* for the niche it was written to fill, but that's functional specialization, where mod_perl is more versatile. The main thing is just that mod_perl/mysql was just such a sweet solution -- I really hate to see it go. Anyway, I've beaten this thread enough. Thanks again, and I'll try to stop spamming the list now. =o) Paul __ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos More http://faith.yahoo.com
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
Paul wrote: Looks like the FastCGI binaries are only available for Windows versions. We'll be on Sun Solaris, but I can probably recompile the source, if that doesn't cause the open-source police to come get me. I'm afraid it's not as obvious how to do it as it is with mod_perl. You may need to ask on the mailing list. I still think we're miscommunicating, though. We weren't even using Apache::Registry; the CGI speed improvement of mod_perl is only of incidental interest to us. The API hooks were what we were using. FastCGI (as I understand it, e.g., from http://www.fastcgi.com/devkit/doc/fastcgi-whitepaper/fastcgi.htm ) doesn't offer any API Everything offers an API. CGI is an API. If I understand correctly, you just want to write a custom access control thingy. FastCGI calls that an authorizer and it is documented in that whitepaper. - Perrin
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
--- Perrin Harkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul wrote: Looks like the FastCGI binaries are only available for Windows versions. We'll be on Sun Solaris, but I can probably recompile the source, if that doesn't cause the open-source police to come get me. I'm afraid it's not as obvious how to do it as it is with mod_perl. You may need to ask on the mailing list. g figures. :) I still think we're miscommunicating, though. We weren't even using Apache::Registry; the CGI speed improvement of mod_perl is only of incidental interest to us. The API hooks were what we were using. FastCGI (as I understand it, e.g., from http://www.fastcgi.com/devkit/doc/fastcgi-whitepaper/fastcgi.htm ) doesn't offer any API Everything offers an API. CGI is an API. Point taken -- I'm thinking too rigidly. If I understand correctly, you just want to write a custom access control thingy. Predominantly. Though there are a few other things we do as well, that's the most complex/important one, and I think some of the other things could be functionally folded into that. FastCGI calls that an authorizer and it is documented in that whitepaper. - Perrin Ah! I see it now. SWEET! Thanks AGAIN Perrin! =o) __ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos More http://faith.yahoo.com
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Paul wrote: We're out of budget and insists we can't use free stuff that's *ALREADY* working. Anyone see a pattern here? :-) If anyone has a miraculous suggestion, I will light many candles in your honor. *sigh* Talk to whoever decides what the IT department thinks? (Or make someone talk to some lawyers with more clue). - ask -- ask bjoern hansen, http://www.askbjoernhansen.com/ !try; do();
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 02:43:18PM -0700, Paul wrote: The company is making us migrate (some baloney about being legally vulnerable because we're using open source), and I've got to convert a nice, simple, efficient Apache/mod_perl/MySQL solution to iPlanet/LDAP. Am I looking at a complete redesign here? That totally sux0rs :( Maybe you should try hitting the powers-that-be with a large 2x4 clue-stick? Or mention that other huge businesses such as imdb, banner ad companies, etc use it and are still sucessful and raking in the cash. A long shot but. alan -- Alan Arcterex [EMAIL PROTECTED] -=][=- http://arcterex.net I used to herd dairy cows. Now I herd lusers. Apart from the isolation, I think I preferred the cows. They were better conversation, easier to milk, and if they annoyed me enough, I could shoot them and eat them. -Rodger Donaldson
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
Paul wrote: I know there are servlets, but I was led to believe that I would almost be able to drop my mod_perl modules into the iPlanet server, as if it has some equivelent functionality. If so, I can't find any evidence of it, and I'm rather skeptical. I think your only hope is FastCGI, or PerlEx if you're running it on Windows. - Perrin
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
Perrin Harkins wrote: Paul wrote: I know there are servlets, but I was led to believe that I would almost be able to drop my mod_perl modules into the iPlanet server, as if it has some equivelent functionality. If so, I can't find any evidence of it, and I'm rather skeptical. I think your only hope is FastCGI, or PerlEx if you're running it on Windows. Wait, there is also PersistentPerl (formerly SpeedyCGI), and Matt's PPerl. Both on CPAN. - Perrin
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
--- Perrin Harkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perrin Harkins wrote: Paul wrote: I know there are servlets, but I was led to believe that I would almost be able to drop my mod_perl modules into the iPlanet server, as if it has some equivelent functionality. If so, I can't find any evidence of it, and I'm rather skeptical. I think your only hope is FastCGI, or PerlEx if you're running it on Windows. Wait, there is also PersistentPerl (formerly SpeedyCGI), and Matt's PPerl. Both on CPAN. - Perrin The problem isn't so much the registry as the API. I've done a lot of server customization, such as embedding the MySQL database for flexible, customizable password access and such, including: - automatic forwarding to SLL at the same document URL (new protocol) - making the server restricted by *default*, so only nonrestricted directories need to be specified (there are few) - allowing .htaccess files to specify individual files and subdirectories with alternate passwords etc. I don't know how I'm going to do all that with iPlanet/LDAP without a lot of recoding, probably in Java. :( __ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos More http://faith.yahoo.com
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
Paul wrote: The problem isn't so much the registry as the API. Any use of the Apache API would have to be rewritten. There is no way around that. I don't know how I'm going to do all that with iPlanet/LDAP without a lot of recoding, probably in Java. :( There's nothing you've mentioned so far that requires Java. It would be much faster to port it to FastCGI or the like. - Perrin
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
--- Perrin Harkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul wrote: The problem isn't so much the registry as the API. Any use of the Apache API would have to be rewritten. There is no way around that. That's what I figured. I don't know how I'm going to do all that with iPlanet/LDAP without a lot of recoding, probably in Java. :( There's nothing you've mentioned so far that requires Java. It would be much faster to port it to FastCGI or the like. I just meant that iPlanet's internal API was probably going to require Java or C, and not Perl. I can redo most of it as CGI if necessary, but some of that will require slieght-of-code like embedding data in cookies or hidden form elements c though I do that some already anyway. I just prefer having all the data from the engine available from the request object, and I'm gonna miss that. Still, the SUN rep talks a good game, and my paycheck demands that I play the game the way the big bosses want. As an aside, this should begin next month. Would the list be interested in a running commentary of how things are done on the new one, or would that be too much spammy line-noise? __ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos More http://faith.yahoo.com
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
On Thu, 2002-10-10 at 14:43, Paul wrote: There's nothing you've mentioned so far that requires Java. It would be much faster to port it to FastCGI or the like. I just meant that iPlanet's internal API was probably going to require Java or C, and not Perl. FastCGI and PersistentPerl are both working equivalents to mod_perl with similar capabilities and performance. They should work just fine with iPlanet. I can redo most of it as CGI if necessary, but some of that will require slieght-of-code like embedding data in cookies or hidden form elements I don't see why that would be any different from what you currently have. Any state mechanism requires cookies, URLs, or hidden form values for maintaining at least a unique ID on the client side. There is no other way to do it. I just prefer having all the data from the engine available from the request object, and I'm gonna miss that. Again, I don't understand what you think you're going to lose. All the basic data available under mod_perl is available under everything else as well, albeit with a slightly different API. - Perrin
[OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
I know there are servlets, but I was led to believe that I would almost be able to drop my mod_perl modules into the iPlanet server, as if it has some equivelent functionality. If so, I can't find any evidence of it, and I'm rather skeptical. The company is making us migrate (some baloney about being legally vulnerable because we're using open source), and I've got to convert a nice, simple, efficient Apache/mod_perl/MySQL solution to iPlanet/LDAP. Am I looking at a complete redesign here? === Also, it looks as though we're going to end up with iPlanet web *and* LDAP servers on this midrange Sun Solaris server, trying to coexist with an Oracle data warehouse as well as *ALL* our ongoing production code, which constitutes sometimes as much as 80-hours runtimes for some of the heavy hitters. We're out of budget and wrestling with a demented IT department that insists we can't use free stuff that's *ALREADY* working. If anyone has a miraculous suggestion, I will light many candles in your honor. *sigh* Paul __ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos More http://faith.yahoo.com
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 02:43:18PM -0700, Paul wrote: I know there are servlets, but I was led to believe that I would almost be able to drop my mod_perl modules into the iPlanet server, as if it has some equivelent functionality. If so, I can't find any evidence of it, and I'm rather skeptical. The company is making us migrate (some baloney about being legally vulnerable because we're using open source), and I've got to convert a nice, simple, efficient Apache/mod_perl/MySQL solution to iPlanet/LDAP. Am I looking at a complete redesign here? If they won't let you use open-source tools, then the answer is definitely yes. (Perl is open-source.) And migrating from a relational database to LDAP might not be as obvious as... oh well. Anyway, if you can't get them to listen to reason, there's an NSAPI module on CPAN: http://search.cpan.org/author/BSUGARS/nsapi_perl-0.24/ But it's dated 1998, and iplanet is multi-threaded. And of course, the module is open-source as well. -- Steve
