[Mono-announce-list] ANNOUNCE: F-Spot 0.7.2 Released!
I've just released F-Spot 0.7.2. This release contains a ton of stability improvements and is the last release before the long-term stable 0.8 release which will come in a week. The most important change is one for developers: you can now use Monodevelop to work on F-Spot. Get your hacking shoes on! From the NEWS file: f-spot 0.7.2 - Aug 11 2010 - Retooled - - Third release of the unstable 0.7 development series. Features a fully restructured source tree with full Monodevelop build support. Solves some of the regressions introduced in 0.7.1. - Reorganized source tree for clarity, builds with Monodevelop. - Switched from QueuedSqliteDatabase to HyenaSqliteConnection (Mike Gemünde) - Build tweaks (Christian Krause) - More GtkBuilder transition (Eric Faehnrich) - Reliability improvements (lots of them) for metadata handling (Mike Gemünde, Ruben Vermeersch) - Prune empty directories when deleting photos, import usability enhancements (Mike Wallick) - Big race-condition fix in import (Paul Wellner Bou) - Loads of improvements to Taglib#, in terms of handling broken files, extra format support (Pentax, Panasonic, Leica), stability and correctness (Ruben Vermeersch) - Reporting of import errors. - Speedups to repeated imports of the same directory. - Piles of cleanups and general stability improvements. - Over 50 bugs closed (http://bit.ly/cqpC3y) More info on my weblog: http://weblog.savanne.be/247-f-spot-0-7-2-released Many thanks to everyone who made this release possible: Hackers: Christian Krause, Eric Faehnrich, Mike Gemünde, Mike Wallick, Paul Wellner Bou, Ruben Vermeersch, Tim Retout, Łukasz Jernaś Translators: Andrej Žnidaršič (Slovenian), Aron Xu (Simplified Chinese), Daniel Nylander (Swedish), Jorge González (Spanish), Kjartan Maraas (Norwegian bokmål), Mario Blättermann (German), Yoshizumi ENDO (Japanese), Zdeněk Hataš (Czech) This new release can be downloaded here: http://download.gnome.org/sources/f-spot/0.7/f-spot-0.7.2.tar.bz2 3c6b90afb851ef1a9311e1217848def5b9df9ca0267ae63e892440f213a48eeb Or through GNOME git, using the 0.7.2 tag. ___ Mono-announce-list maillist - Mono-announce-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-announce-list
[Mono-announce-list] Banshee 1.7.4 released
Hello! We just released Banshee 1.7.4, part of our active-development 1.7 series leading up to a stable 1.8 release September 29th. New Features Since 1.7.3: * User manual available via Help » Contents menu and F1 Enhancements/API Additions: * Duplicate Genre solver in Metadata Fixup extension * Support for Amazon MP3 purchases containing PDFs and videos * Improved Metadata Fixup support for non-English languages Notable Bugs Fixed (45 fixed since 1.7.3): * bgo#588255: Fix notification icon transparency * bgo#619036: Fix glitchy search entry * bgo#625210: Better handling of non-US Amazon stores * bgo#624569: Fix scrolling Extensions list with keyboard * bgo#625340: Fix .amz mime file conflict with official downloader * bgo#553433: Fix issue that could block song scrobbling * bgo#600340: Fix subscribing to certain podcasts (eg podbean.com) * bgo#620826: Fix URIs of tracks synced to iPods * bmc#1115: Fix a pipeline deadlock evident on MeeGo Learn more: http://banshee.fm/download/archives/1.7.4 Thanks to everybody who contributed! Gabriel ___ Mono-announce-list maillist - Mono-announce-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-announce-list
[Mono-dev] mono_jit_init fails when called from a Qt QThread
Hi,
thank you for the hint to mono_tread_attach. I should spend more time with
RTFM. Now using this I was able to get beyond the init and the attach but
crashed again at the creation of a seperate app_domain. While this might be
accepted, since I could create the app domain in the main thread as well I
finally got stuck with the following error upon mono_domain_assembly_open
(not using app domains at all).
Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
[Switching to process 17740]
0x7fff870196d7 in pthread_mutex_lock ()
(gdb) where
#0 0x7fff870196d7 in pthread_mutex_lock ()
#1 0x000100766b86 in mono_domain_assembly_open ()
#2 0x0001000eae5d in ScriptEngineMono::ExecuteMain (this=0x1028b2250,
rFile=0x116e3f6d8 /Users/fuchs/Scripts/auto.exe) at
ScriptEngine/ScriptEngineMono.cpp:94
#3 0x0001000eb5a1 in ScriptEngineMono::CompileAndRun (this=0x1028b2250,
rSourcefiles={{p = {static shared_null = {ref = {_q_value = 3691}, alloc =
0, begin = 0, end = 0, sharable = 1, array = {0x0}}, d = 0x10287d3e0}, d =
0x10287d3e0}}) at ScriptEngine/ScriptEngineMono.cpp:168
#4 0x0001000f5d5f in ScriptEngine::run (this=0x7fff5fbfdf90) at
ScriptEngine/ScriptEngine.cpp:1153
#5 0x000101d1adaf in QThreadPrivate::start ()
#6 0x7fff8704d456 in _pthread_start ()
#7 0x7fff8704d309 in thread_start ()
Frank
Hey,
On 10.08.2010 22:00, Frank Fuchs wrote:
* Hi,
** I think I have a rather special problem here. I have a Qt C++ application
with an embedded mono jit.
** Everything works nicely so far. However, I recently tried to start the
Jit from a Qthread
** (in order to have an unblocked GUI during the C# script execution,
which can be several minutes).
** Sadly I don't even get close to execution of the assembly, since the
mono_jit_init_version call fails.
** The stack trace provided by gdb is attached below. To me it looks like Qt
does not play nice with pthreads as used by the GC.
** (I found something similar using QThreads and openmp together.)
** Any comments? Whose fault is it? I read something about the new GC,
would it cure this?
**
** BTW: system is Mac OS X 10.6.4 with mono 2.7 build from trunk.
*
Given that mono_jit_init() can't be called more than once per
process, you could just call it from the main thread and forget
about the issue after you've filed a bug at
http://mono-project.com/Bugs :)
The real work (compiling and executing your C# scripts) can be
performed from a separate thread, but don't forget to call
mono_thread_attach(domain) from this thread.
Robert
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Re: [Mono-dev] mono_jit_init fails when called from a Qt QThread
Ok I justed prepared a minimal example demonstrating the problem, just to learn that it runs perfectly ... now I have to find my bug :-/ . Sorry for the buzz! -Frank ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
[Mono-dev] VM debugger
Hi everyone, my problem is rather odd but you guys may have some idea. I'm looking for a solution to perform debugging inside the VM, basically, what I would do is single stepping over IL instructions and watching locals as well as setting breakpoints (and go). I'm aware of that this effect would be easily achieved with debug binaries but I have the release ones only and not really straightforward to make a debug build of them. I know this would be a tool which intercepts the VM instructions but not sure if it exists. Thanks for any help! Attila ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] Is there any reason to not add instead a flag?
Hey Miguel, sorry for the small delay to reply:
El 10/08/10 21:41, Miguel de Icaza escribió:
In your recent commit, you added a new command to mcs/tools/corcompare,
the mono-abi-info tool. I do not know what this tool does, and I do
not know why we could not just have used mono-api-info with a new flag
--abi instead of installing another executable.
I thought about this, but it would be a bit weird to use a tool called
mono-api-info if you don't want the API but the ABI. This is why I
thought it would be more intuitive this way.
It goes against the If it is not documented, it does not exist rule.
Then mono-api-info doesn't exist either :) (there's no man page for it)
So can we:
(a) get this merged into mono-api-info
I'm thinking I can get it to be the same executable, but can it be a
different script called mono-abi-info which internally calls
mono-api-info.exe passing the flag?
(b) document this on the wiki or the relevant man pages?
If there's no man page for mono-api-info, I prefer to do it in a wiki
page, ok? (Don't know man format enough to not copy-paste the structure ;) )
I'll work on it tomorrow. Thanks for the feedback.
Andres
miguel
Branch: refs/heads/master
Home: http://github.com/mono/mono
Commit: c508a786c106ceff274b9b985919368b6b404342
Author: Andrés G. Aragoneses kno...@gmail.com
Date: 08/10/2010 14:36:27
URL:
http://github.com/mono/mono/commit/c508a786c106ceff274b9b985919368b6b404342
Added new ABI mode to mono-api-info tool, wrapped in a mono-abi-info script.
2010-08-05 Andrés G. Aragoneses and...@lindenlab.com
* mcs/tools/corcompare/mono-api-info.cs: Implemented new mode to show ABI.
* mcs/tools/corcompare/Makefile: added mono-abi-info autofoo.
* scripts/.gitignore: added mono-abi-info.
* scripts/Makefile.am: added mono-abi-info autofoo.
Changed paths:
M ChangeLog
M mcs/tools/corcompare/ChangeLog
M mcs/tools/corcompare/Makefile
M mcs/tools/corcompare/mono-api-info.cs
M scripts/.gitignore
M scripts/Makefile.am
Modified: ChangeLog
===
--- a/ChangeLog
+++ b/ChangeLog
@@ -1,3 +1,8 @@
+2010-08-05 Andr??s G. Aragoneses and...@lindenlab.com
+
+* scripts/.gitignore: added mono-abi-info.
+* scripts/Makefile.am: added mono-abi-info autofoo.
+
2010-07-16 Zoltan Varga var...@gmail.com
* configure.in: Remove the 'LLVM backend is experimental' warning.
Modified: mcs/tools/corcompare/ChangeLog
===
--- a/mcs/tools/corcompare/ChangeLog
+++ b/mcs/tools/corcompare/ChangeLog
@@ -1,3 +1,8 @@
+2010-08-05 Andr??s G. Aragoneses and...@lindenlab.com
+
+* mono-api-info.cs: Implemented new mode to show ABI.
+* Makefile: added mono-abi-info autofoo.
+
2010-04-16 C.J. Adams-Collier c...@colliertech.org
* mono-api-diff.cs: revived from the mono-2-2 branch and applied
Modified: mcs/tools/corcompare/Makefile
===
--- a/mcs/tools/corcompare/Makefile
+++ b/mcs/tools/corcompare/Makefile
@@ -2,7 +2,7 @@ thisdir = tools/corcompare
SUBDIRS =
include ../../build/rules.make
-ALL_PROGRAMS = mono-api-info.exe
+ALL_PROGRAMS = mono-api-info.exe mono-abi-info.exe
CECIL = ../../class/lib/net_2_0/Mono.Cecil.dll
@@ -43,3 +43,6 @@ dist-local: dist-default
mono-api-info.exe: $(APIINFO_SOURCES)
$(CSCOMPILE) -r:$(CECIL) -out:$@ $^
+
+mono-abi-info.exe: $(APIINFO_SOURCES)
+$(CSCOMPILE) -r:$(CECIL) -d:ABI -out:$@ $^
Modified: mcs/tools/corcompare/mono-api-info.cs
===
--- a/mcs/tools/corcompare/mono-api-info.cs
+++ b/mcs/tools/corcompare/mono-api-info.cs
@@ -29,6 +29,9 @@ namespace CorCompare
if (args.Length == 0)
return 1;
+AbiMode = false;
+SetAbiMode ();
+
AssemblyCollection acoll = new AssemblyCollection ();
foreach (string fullName in args) {
@@ -45,6 +48,14 @@ namespace CorCompare
doc.WriteTo (writer);
return 0;
}
+
+[System.Diagnostics.Conditional (ABI)]
+private static void SetAbiMode ()
+{
+AbiMode = true;
+}
+
+internal static bool AbiMode { get; private set; }
}
public class Utils {
@@ -211,7 +222,7 @@ namespace CorCompare
if (string.IsNullOrEmpty (t.Namespace))
continue;
-if ((t.Attributes
TypeAttributes.VisibilityMask) != TypeAttributes.Public)
+if (!Driver.AbiMode ((t.Attributes
TypeAttributes.VisibilityMask) != TypeAttributes.Public))
Re: [Mono-dev] Is there any reason to not add instead a flag?
Hello, I thought about this, but it would be a bit weird to use a tool called mono-api-info if you don't want the API but the ABI. This is why I thought it would be more intuitive this way. Minor issue. It goes against the If it is not documented, it does not exist rule. Then mono-api-info doesn't exist either :) (there's no man page for it) What we have here is an opportunity. You now get to write the man page and document what both do. I'm thinking I can get it to be the same executable, but can it be a different script called mono-abi-info which internally calls mono-api-info.exe passing the flag? I do not want that, it is a minor aesthetic issue. Just change it to --abi and let us be done. If there's no man page for mono-api-info, I prefer to do it in a wiki page, ok? (Don't know man format enough to not copy-paste the structure ;) ) I realize it is more convenient for you, but it is not more convenient for the user that has to wonder What the hell does this do? Granted, there is no man page, so this is why we are going to turn a negative into a positive. ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
[Mono-dev] BasicHttpBinding issues
Forgive me if this is the wrong list. I checked the descriptions of the various lists, and this one seemed to be the most relevant, as I'm seeing a difference between running under .NET 3.5 and Mono 2.6.7. I am attempting to create a WCF service. I've been unable to get either NetTcpBinding or BasicHttpBinding working, yet both work fine if I run under .NET. Running under Mono 2.6.7 on Windows 7 x64, I occasionally get an exception Exception during finishing channel acceptance with a System.IndexOutofRangeException: Array index is out of range. This happens half the time that I run the service. I never get these exceptions if I am running under .NET. The end of the stack trace looks like: at (wrapper stelemref) object:stelemref (object,intptr,object) at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[System.ServiceModel.Channels.IChannel].Add (IChannel item) [0x0001a] in C:\cygwin\tmp\monobuild\build\BUILD\mono-2.6.7\mcs\class\corlib\System.Collections.Generic\List.cs:89 at System.ServiceModel.Dispatcher.ListenerLoopManager.ChannelAccepted (IChannel ch) [0x0004c] in C:\cygwin\tmp\monobuild\build\BUILD\mono-2.6.7\mcs\class\System.ServiceModel\System.ServiceModel.Dispatcher\ChannelDispatcher.cs:499 at System.ServiceModel.Dispatcher.ListenerLoopManager+CreateAcceptorc__AnonStorey1C`1[System.ServiceModel.Channels.IReplyChannel].m__1F (IAsyncResult result) [0x0] in C:\cygwin\tmp\monobuild\build\BUILD\mono-2.6.7\mcs\class\System.ServiceModel\System.ServiceModel.Dispatcher\ChannelDispatcher.cs:373 I can provide the full stack trace if needed. When the service does start, any clients that attempt to connect get an Error 400. I create the ServiceHost with: var host = new ServiceHost(typeof(TestService)); host.AddServiceEndpoint(typeof(ITestService), new BasicHttpBinding(), http://127.0.0.1:/test;); host.Open(); I have also attempted to run the service under OpenSuSE 11.3, and get the same Error 400. Everything works fine under .NET 3.5 however. I have set all the buffer sizes to their max value. I'd appreciate any help or direction (or if I should be sending this to another list). Best, Matt ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
[Mono-dev] 答复: [Mono-dev] Why the matrix MUST be invertible to be used in libgdiplus when we call GdipSetWorldTransform or GdipMultiplyWorldTransform?
i think that gdiplus save the clip region in page space, the clip_matrix is
used to translate the clip from page space to world space. because gdiplus's
API use world space!
I have anther question:cairo use user spcae and device space, but gdiplus use
world/page/device space. From libgdiplus's source, i find it that cairo doesn't
handle the page scale. This results in some problems.
发件人：oken
发送日期：2010-08-08 10:36
收件人：mono-devel-l...@lists.ximian.com
抄送：
主题：[Mono-dev] Why the matrix MUST be invertible to be used in libgdiplus
when we call GdipSetWorldTransform or GdipMultiplyWorldTransform?
hi, all!
The following code are from libgdiplus2.6.7, in graphics.c.
I have a few quetions:
1. Why the matrix MUST be invertible to be used when we call
GdipSetWorldTransform or GdipMultiplyWorldTransform? It is unnecessary for
windows's gdiplus.
2. each time when the world transformation is changed(translate, roate, scale),
the function apply_world_to_bounds is called. what if we don't call
apply_world_to_bounds?
3. GdipSetWorldTransform also change the world transformation, but it doesnt
call world transformation, why?
4. apply_world_to_bounds use graphics-clip_matrix to transform points, why not
use graphics-copy_of_ctm? As graphics-copy_of_ctm is the world transformation
and graphics-clip_matrix is just the matrix of the clip region.
I use libgdiplus to draw something(I change the world transformation using the
related functions, but the position and the size is incorrect. I don't know
wether it has sth to do with the following questions.
thanks!
static GpStatus
apply_world_to_bounds (GpGraphics *graphics)
{
GpStatus status;
GpPointF pts[2];
pts[0].X = graphics-bounds.X;
pts[0].Y = graphics-bounds.Y;
pts[1].X = graphics-bounds.X + graphics-bounds.Width;
pts[1].Y = graphics-bounds.Y + graphics-bounds.Height;
status = GdipTransformMatrixPoints (graphics-clip_matrix, (GpPointF*)pts,
2);/* why not use graphics-copy_of_ctm?*/
if (status != Ok)
return status;
if (pts[0].X pts[1].X) {
graphics-bounds.X = float2int(pts[1].X);
graphics-bounds.Width = float2int(iround (pts[0].X - pts[1].X));
} else {
graphics-bounds.X = float2int(pts[0].X);
graphics-bounds.Width = float2int(iround (pts[1].X - pts[0].X));
}
if (pts[0].Y pts[1].Y) {
graphics-bounds.Y = float2int(pts[1].Y);
graphics-bounds.Height = float2int(iround (pts[0].Y - pts[1].Y));
} else {
graphics-bounds.Y = float2int(pts[0].Y);
graphics-bounds.Height = float2int(iround (pts[1].Y - pts[0].Y));
}
return Ok;
}
GpStatus WINGDIPAPI GdipSetWorldTransform (GpGraphics *graphics, GpMatrix
*matrix)
{
GpStatus status;
BOOL invertible;
if (!graphics || !matrix)
return InvalidParameter;
/* optimization - inverting an identity matrix result in the identity matrix */
if (gdip_is_matrix_empty (matrix))
return GdipResetWorldTransform (graphics);
/* the matrix MUST be invertible to be used */
status = GdipIsMatrixInvertible (matrix, invertible);
if (!invertible || (status != Ok))
{printf(InvalidParameter\n);return InvalidParameter;}
gdip_cairo_matrix_copy (graphics-copy_of_ctm, matrix);
gdip_cairo_matrix_copy (graphics-clip_matrix, matrix);
/* we already know it's invertible */
GdipInvertMatrix (graphics-clip_matrix);
/* apply_world_to_bounds (graphics); is not called here! why?*/
switch (graphics-backend) {
case GraphicsBackEndCairo:
return cairo_SetWorldTransform (graphics, matrix);
case GraphicsBackEndMetafile:
return metafile_SetWorldTransform (graphics, matrix);
default:
return GenericError;
}
}
GpStatus WINGDIPAPI GdipMultiplyWorldTransform (GpGraphics *graphics, GpMatrix
*matrix, GpMatrixOrder order)
{
Status s;
BOOL invertible;
GpMatrix inverted;
if (!graphics)
return InvalidParameter;
/* the matrix MUST be invertible to be used */
s = GdipIsMatrixInvertible (matrix, invertible);
if (!invertible || (s != Ok))
{printf(InvalidParameter\n);return InvalidParameter;}
s = GdipMultiplyMatrix (graphics-copy_of_ctm, matrix, order);
if (s != Ok)
return s;
/* Multiply the inverted matrix with the clipping matrix */
gdip_cairo_matrix_copy (inverted, matrix);
s = GdipInvertMatrix (inverted);
if (s != Ok)
return s;
s = GdipMultiplyMatrix (graphics-clip_matrix, inverted, order);
if (s != Ok)
return s;
apply_world_to_bounds (graphics);
switch (graphics-backend) {
case GraphicsBackEndCairo:
/* not a typo - we apply to calculated matrix to cairo context */
return cairo_SetWorldTransform (graphics, graphics-copy_of_ctm);
case GraphicsBackEndMetafile:
return metafile_MultiplyWorldTransform (graphics, matrix, order);
default:
return GenericError;
}
}
GpStatus WINGDIPAPI GdipRotateWorldTransform (GpGraphics *graphics, float
angle, GpMatrixOrder order)
{
GpStatus s;
if (!graphics)
return InvalidParameter;
s = GdipRotateMatrix (graphics-copy_of_ctm, angle, order);
if (s != Ok)
return
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with ubuntu 10.04? no Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped with ubuntu? yes Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be viable. So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono team like on windows and mac and opensuse. Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other supported operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this. Windows has first class support and yet no one uses mono on windows because .net is faster and more stable. Even mono develop for windows runs on .net and not on mono. How much effort does the mono team go to create mono installers for windows? isn't that the responsibility of Microsoft to make mono work on windows? What about Mac how much effort does the mono team spend making mono run on Mac isn't that the responsibility of Apple? So it's not about user base. The has been as must as stated on here that its because ubuntu is linux. So the mono team doesn't support ubuntu because its a linux distro. Linux distro are not important to the mono team. Closed operating systems are much more important. Even if people don't use mono on those closed systems. The exception is openuses which just so happens to be funded by Novell interesting how that works I just finished lessening to the ubuntu uk podcast in which they interview Jo Shields aka directhex (the guy who maintains the badgerports PPA) and what he says about mono on ubuntu is quite interesting and is definitely worth a listen. Here is the link http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/07/21/s03e12-the-country-fair/ Ubuntu is one of the most mono accepting non novell distros out there in terms of what mono applications they include by default, but what we get from mono team amounts to a slap in the face. Does windows include mono applications by default? no. Does apple? no. Does ubuntu? yes. So how does mono thank ubuntu for its support? by giving it the big middle finger. Microsoft and Apple do not package mono or include mono by default. And mono thanks them for this by providing them with first class support. It doesn't make any sense to me at all. (I sent the email to the sender by mistake because the reply button in gmail replies to the sender not the list.) On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Bojan Rajkovic severedcr...@gmail.com wrote: Does GNOME maintain PPA's like this? Does any project? On Aug 10, 2010 6:35 PM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: No one expects mono to be pushed out as a automatic update on ubuntu. We do however expect a PPA which is on even footing with windows, mac etc. I.E same day support to the same quality. And supported by the mono team. That is all. On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:18 AM, Bojan Rajkovic severedcr...@gmail.com wrote: On 08/10/2010 10:03 AM, Christopher Monroe wrote: I'll second the complaint about the foru... ___ Mono-list maillist - mono-l...@lists.ximian.co... ___ Mono-list maillist - mono-l...@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
[Mono-list] LiveCd for version 2.6.7 missing in downloads
Hi, there is missing LiveCD in download section (version 2.6.7.) . Will be the LiveCD available for this version? Thanks, Jan -- View this message in context: http://mono.1490590.n4.nabble.com/LiveCd-for-version-2-6-7-missing-in-downloads-tp2321117p2321117.html Sent from the Mono - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
Hello, You have a couple of options here: (a) Step up and participate in your favorite distribution packaging effort (b) Raise funds to fund the salary for someone to maintain the packages on a continuous basis (c) Wait for the existing Debian/Ubuntu team to package the software for you (d) Use a distribution that we provide packages for (e) Lobby your favorite distribution to pay developers to ensure that Mono packages are packaged and delivered promptly. If you want to do (a), there is a mailing list for this: http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-packagers-list Mono ships source code, and as a service, we consider where we need to fill in the gaps. We considered both Windows and Mac important platforms to target due to the users on those platforms and the fact that the chances are low that someone from that community would step up to do the work. Ubuntu, Debian, and various BSD have motivated maintainers that follow their relevant policies and are more knowledgeable of the procedures to get the software properly distributed for those platforms than we do. Miguel On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 6:54 AM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with ubuntu 10.04? no Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped with ubuntu? yes Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be viable. So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono team like on windows and mac and opensuse. Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other supported operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this. Windows has first class support and yet no one uses mono on windows because .net is faster and more stable. Even mono develop for windows runs on .net and not on mono. How much effort does the mono team go to create mono installers for windows? isn't that the responsibility of Microsoft to make mono work on windows? What about Mac how much effort does the mono team spend making mono run on Mac isn't that the responsibility of Apple? So it's not about user base. The has been as must as stated on here that its because ubuntu is linux. So the mono team doesn't support ubuntu because its a linux distro. Linux distro are not important to the mono team. Closed operating systems are much more important. Even if people don't use mono on those closed systems. The exception is openuses which just so happens to be funded by Novell interesting how that works I just finished lessening to the ubuntu uk podcast in which they interview Jo Shields aka directhex (the guy who maintains the badgerports PPA) and what he says about mono on ubuntu is quite interesting and is definitely worth a listen. Here is the link http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/07/21/s03e12-the-country-fair/ Ubuntu is one of the most mono accepting non novell distros out there in terms of what mono applications they include by default, but what we get from mono team amounts to a slap in the face. Does windows include mono applications by default? no. Does apple? no. Does ubuntu? yes. So how does mono thank ubuntu for its support? by giving it the big middle finger. Microsoft and Apple do not package mono or include mono by default. And mono thanks them for this by providing them with first class support. It doesn't make any sense to me at all. (I sent the email to the sender by mistake because the reply button in gmail replies to the sender not the list.) On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Bojan Rajkovic severedcr...@gmail.com wrote: Does GNOME maintain PPA's like this? Does any project? On Aug 10, 2010 6:35 PM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: No one expects mono to be pushed out as a automatic update on ubuntu. We do however expect a PPA which is on even footing with windows, mac etc. I.E same day support to the same quality. And supported by the mono team. That is all. On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:18 AM, Bojan Rajkovic severedcr...@gmail.com wrote: On 08/10/2010 10:03 AM, Christopher Monroe wrote: I'll second the complaint about the foru... ___ Mono-list maillist - mono-l...@lists.ximian.co... ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
I think you are arguing against The Linux Way TM. Here are some other programming language download pages: GCC: http://gcc.gnu.org/install/binaries.html PHP: http://php.net/downloads.php Java: http://www.java.com/en/download/manual.jsp Python: http://www.python.org/download/ You will note that not a single one of them offers Ubuntu (or any other Linux) packages, and most of them provide Windows and Mac installers. If you want to use a newer version of Mono or any of these other languages than what your distro provides, you follow The Linux Way, which is to download the tarball and build it yourself. Jonathan On 8/11/2010 5:54 AM, Daniel Hughes wrote: Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with ubuntu 10.04? no Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped with ubuntu? yes Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be viable. So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono team like on windows and mac and opensuse. Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other supported operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this. Windows has first class support and yet no one uses mono on windows because .net is faster and more stable. Even mono develop for windows runs on .net and not on mono. How much effort does the mono team go to create mono installers for windows? isn't that the responsibility of Microsoft to make mono work on windows? What about Mac how much effort does the mono team spend making mono run on Mac isn't that the responsibility of Apple? So it's not about user base. The has been as must as stated on here that its because ubuntu is linux. So the mono team doesn't support ubuntu because its a linux distro. Linux distro are not important to the mono team. Closed operating systems are much more important. Even if people don't use mono on those closed systems. The exception is openuses which just so happens to be funded by Novell interesting how that works I just finished lessening to the ubuntu uk podcast in which they interview Jo Shields aka directhex (the guy who maintains the badgerports PPA) and what he says about mono on ubuntu is quite interesting and is definitely worth a listen. Here is the link http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/07/21/s03e12-the-country-fair/ Ubuntu is one of the most mono accepting non novell distros out there in terms of what mono applications they include by default, but what we get from mono team amounts to a slap in the face. Does windows include mono applications by default? no. Does apple? no. Does ubuntu? yes. So how does mono thank ubuntu for its support? by giving it the big middle finger. Microsoft and Apple do not package mono or include mono by default. And mono thanks them for this by providing them with first class support. It doesn't make any sense to me at all. (I sent the email to the sender by mistake because the reply button in gmail replies to the sender not the list.) On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Bojan Rajkovicseveredcr...@gmail.com wrote: Does GNOME maintain PPA's like this? Does any project? On Aug 10, 2010 6:35 PM, Daniel Hughestramps...@gmail.com wrote: No one expects mono to be pushed out as a automatic update on ubuntu. We do however expect a PPA which is on even footing with windows, mac etc. I.E same day support to the same quality. And supported by the mono team. That is all. On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:18 AM, Bojan Rajkovicseveredcr...@gmail.com wrote: On 08/10/2010 10:03 AM, Christopher Monroe wrote: I'll second the complaint about the foru... ___ Mono-list maillist - mono-l...@lists.ximian.co... ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
Hello, If you want to use a newer version of Mono or any of these other languages than what your distro provides, you follow The Linux Way, which is to download the tarball and build it yourself. There is a little bit of rationale behind this that has escaped the discussion, and Jonathan's list of languages reminded me of this. The reason why runtimes, compilers and other pieces of infrastructure tend to not be packaged is because the code could break existing code in the distribution. Some reasons include: * Distribution makes changes to the software to suit their design * Distribution applies specific patches for bugs that were reported to them, but the fixes were not upstreamed * Distributions applies patches for features that improve the integration on their system * Quality assurance and system tests You will notice that the distributions that we support are either those that we actually maintain Mono for, so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions where Mono is not included by default, and where we install Mono on a separate directory (our own SLES and RHEL/CentOS, MacOS, Windows). Miguel ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
[Mono-list] Desktop Silverlight applicaition for Linux
Hi, Well, I am planning to develop a desktop application using Silverlight and want the same app to be available for Linux too. I intend to use Microsoft's Multi Point technology where we can connect more than one mouse with our machine and different pointers are available for each one of the mice. Previously, I got a suggestion -- Sure, Silverlight isn't intended for the desktop, but there's no reason why you can't embed a silverlight engine in your application. It's been done before such as for the Mac NY Times Reader. You'll have better luck working with Moonlight, which targets the Silverlight API, which is a subset of full WPF I am new to Linux but have some experience in Windows apps and I wanted to know if Multi Point could be implemented in Linux? -- *fingers crossed* After all, there's nothing impossible in programming!!! -- View this message in context: http://mono.1490590.n4.nabble.com/Desktop-Silverlight-applicaition-for-Linux-tp2321439p2321439.html Sent from the Mono - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Desktop Silverlight applicaition for Linux
On 11.08.2010 17:48, optimus_prime wrote: Previously, I got a suggestion -- Sure, Silverlight isn't intended for the desktop, but there's no reason why you can't embed a silverlight engine in your application. It's been done before such as for the Mac NY Times Reader. You'll have better luck working with Moonlight, which targets the Silverlight API, which is a subset of full WPF I am new to Linux but have some experience in Windows apps and I wanted to know if Multi Point could be implemented in Linux? There is a reason not to use Silverlight in a dektop application: Last time I checked the license (a couple of months ago), Microsoft did not allow to redistribute Silverlight. This means that it has to be downloaded from MS and installed on the target machine at installation time of the application that embeds it. Robert ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
I had the same questions you had. I am a Mint user (the 4 largest OS in world, after ubuntu, OSX, Win32), and Mint is very pro user experience out of the box, and given were it is authored, it has lessor issue with licensing/patents and such. They actually have had (if I remember correctly) moonlight installed out of the box, in addition to codec's and such that are not normally on other distros. I did find Joe's badger ports and it does the trick for me. I also am hoping I can assist in that effort in some way, as I am glued to Mint. I understand your issues/concerns and also the other side as well (see Miguel's and other posts). It really can be seen as a marketing trade off. It costs to create these and support them, BUT I can't help thinking that investing the time better supporting Mint/Ubuntu, that it would (but only a guess) pay off by bringing more people into the community, there by getting a huge return on investment, one that makes it self sufficient. So to that end I do see it as odd. However, there needs to be community, and free contribution to the efforts, and hopefully, ideally, that can handle the task (in the case of Mint/Ubuntu). The other side of looking at it is, with Mint/Ubuntu being so huge, and statistically speaking, should generate a large pool of free resource to look after the task of its own repos for Mono. This brings me to another question. Suppose a combination of resources can build the Ubuntu/Mint packages (solid builds as they progress, even some targeted just for developers with the latest and greatest). It helps to have the packages (PPA) come from some place official. I know about badger ports, I trust it, so I install from it, but thats just me. It seems to me that from the trust aspect, to cater to the most paranoid, doesn't the PPA have to (should) come from go-mono.com, or the domain of the distro? It may not always be possible to hang it off the disto's domain, so that leaves go-mono.com (and its aliases), but hosting a PPA or equivalent at go-mono, that involves ..? This reminds me of packman from when i used opensuse. It is listed on the opensuse site, so one get the official feeling, as apposed to just a repo added from some domain that technically could be (but usual unlikely) rogue. So putting aside the question of where the effort comes from for better ubuntu/mint support assuming its there, where can the PPA officially be housed for the paranoid (and rightfully so) consumer? Also, in it being officially housed, it also then benefits by that exposure, that is it has become official, its were people will naturally look for it, which has brought us around full circle. tl On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:54:37 +1200 Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with ubuntu 10.04? no Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped with ubuntu? yes Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be viable. So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono team like on windows and mac and opensuse. Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other supported operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this. Windows has first class support and yet no one uses mono on windows because .net is faster and more stable. Even mono develop for windows runs on .net and not on mono. How much effort does the mono team go to create mono installers for windows? isn't that the responsibility of Microsoft to make mono work on windows? What about Mac how much effort does the mono team spend making mono run on Mac isn't that the responsibility of Apple? So it's not about user base. The has been as must as stated on here that its because ubuntu is linux. So the mono team doesn't support ubuntu because its a linux distro. Linux distro are not important to the mono team. Closed operating systems are much more important. Even if people don't use mono on those closed systems. The exception is openuses which just so happens to be funded by Novell interesting how that works I just finished lessening to the ubuntu uk podcast in which they interview Jo Shields aka directhex (the guy who maintains the badgerports PPA) and what he says about mono on ubuntu is quite interesting and is definitely worth a listen. Here is the link http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/07/21/s03e12-the-country-fair/ Ubuntu is one of the most mono accepting non novell distros out there in terms of what mono applications they include by default, but what we get from mono team amounts to a slap in the face. Does windows include mono applications by default? no. Does apple? no. Does ubuntu? yes. So how does mono thank ubuntu for its support? by giving it the
[Mono-list] Mono or Linux interfering with Google calendar API? Works on Windows
I have a Winforms app that reads from Google calendars, using the Google calendar API. It works fine on Windows, but on Mono I keep getting a 401 Authorization Required error. The code is the same and I have copied all of the reference libraries (DLLs) from the Windows machine to the Linux machine. Same Google account, I can read events and write events fine but when I run the app under Mono I get the 401 error. Anyone have any idea what might be going on? -- View this message in context: http://mono.1490590.n4.nabble.com/Mono-or-Linux-interfering-with-Google-calendar-API-Works-on-Windows-tp2321780p2321780.html Sent from the Mono - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
I know Jo Shields (http://apebox.org/wordpress/) has is packaging Mono for Ubuntu. However, he may suffer from not having enough exposure, as people keep asking where to find the latest Mono release for Ubuntu. Wouldn't the solution simply be for the Mono download page to have a link to Jo's builds? The only problem I can think of is small delays before they're ready, compared to the other builds. ted leslie wrote: I had the same questions you had. I am a Mint user (the 4 largest OS in world, after ubuntu, OSX, Win32), and Mint is very pro user experience out of the box, and given were it is authored, it has lessor issue with licensing/patents and such. They actually have had (if I remember correctly) moonlight installed out of the box, in addition to codec's and such that are not normally on other distros. I did find Joe's badger ports and it does the trick for me. I also am hoping I can assist in that effort in some way, as I am glued to Mint. I understand your issues/concerns and also the other side as well (see Miguel's and other posts). It really can be seen as a marketing trade off. It costs to create these and support them, BUT I can't help thinking that investing the time better supporting Mint/Ubuntu, that it would (but only a guess) pay off by bringing more people into the community, there by getting a huge return on investment, one that makes it self sufficient. So to that end I do see it as odd. However, there needs to be community, and free contribution to the efforts, and hopefully, ideally, that can handle the task (in the case of Mint/Ubuntu). The other side of looking at it is, with Mint/Ubuntu being so huge, and statistically speaking, should generate a large pool of free resource to look after the task of its own repos for Mono. This brings me to another question. Suppose a combination of resources can build the Ubuntu/Mint packages (solid builds as they progress, even some targeted just for developers with the latest and greatest). It helps to have the packages (PPA) come from some place official. I know about badger ports, I trust it, so I install from it, but thats just me. It seems to me that from the trust aspect, to cater to the most paranoid, doesn't the PPA have to (should) come from go-mono.com, or the domain of the distro? It may not always be possible to hang it off the disto's domain, so that leaves go-mono.com (and its aliases), but hosting a PPA or equivalent at go-mono, that involves ..? This reminds me of packman from when i used opensuse. It is listed on the opensuse site, so one get the official feeling, as apposed to just a repo added from some domain that technically could be (but usual unlikely) rogue. So putting aside the question of where the effort comes from for better ubuntu/mint support assuming its there, where can the PPA officially be housed for the paranoid (and rightfully so) consumer? Also, in it being officially housed, it also then benefits by that exposure, that is it has become official, its were people will naturally look for it, which has brought us around full circle. tl On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:54:37 +1200 Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with ubuntu 10.04? no Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped with ubuntu? yes Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be viable. So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono team like on windows and mac and opensuse. Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other supported operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this. Windows has first class support and yet no one uses mono on windows because .net is faster and more stable. Even mono develop for windows runs on .net and not on mono. How much effort does the mono team go to create mono installers for windows? isn't that the responsibility of Microsoft to make mono work on windows? What about Mac how much effort does the mono team spend making mono run on Mac isn't that the responsibility of Apple? So it's not about user base. The has been as must as stated on here that its because ubuntu is linux. So the mono team doesn't support ubuntu because its a linux distro. Linux distro are not important to the mono team. Closed operating systems are much more important. Even if people don't use mono on those closed systems. The exception is openuses which just so happens to be funded by Novell interesting how that works I just finished lessening to the ubuntu uk podcast in which they interview Jo Shields aka directhex (the guy who maintains the badgerports PPA) and what he says about mono on ubuntu is quite interesting and is
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
I think mono should adopt the Jo Shields badgerports PPA as the offical ubuntu PPA. However in my mind this would involve more then just putting it on the download page. The mono team would have to make commitment to working with Jo to ensure that it was available from day one when a new release is made and that it was stable. It that was to happen I would be a happy man :) (sorry stifu I sent it to you instead of the list ... again) On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Stifu st...@free.fr wrote: I know Jo Shields (http://apebox.org/wordpress/) has is packaging Mono for Ubuntu. However, he may suffer from not having enough exposure, as people keep asking where to find the latest Mono release for Ubuntu. Wouldn't the solution simply be for the Mono download page to have a link to Jo's builds? The only problem I can think of is small delays before they're ready, compared to the other builds. ted leslie wrote: I had the same questions you had. I am a Mint user (the 4 largest OS in world, after ubuntu, OSX, Win32), and Mint is very pro user experience out of the box, and given were it is authored, it has lessor issue with licensing/patents and such. They actually have had (if I remember correctly) moonlight installed out of the box, in addition to codec's and such that are not normally on other distros. I did find Joe's badger ports and it does the trick for me. I also am hoping I can assist in that effort in some way, as I am glued to Mint. I understand your issues/concerns and also the other side as well (see Miguel's and other posts). It really can be seen as a marketing trade off. It costs to create these and support them, BUT I can't help thinking that investing the time better supporting Mint/Ubuntu, that it would (but only a guess) pay off by bringing more people into the community, there by getting a huge return on investment, one that makes it self sufficient. So to that end I do see it as odd. However, there needs to be community, and free contribution to the efforts, and hopefully, ideally, that can handle the task (in the case of Mint/Ubuntu). The other side of looking at it is, with Mint/Ubuntu being so huge, and statistically speaking, should generate a large pool of free resource to look after the task of its own repos for Mono. This brings me to another question. Suppose a combination of resources can build the Ubuntu/Mint packages (solid builds as they progress, even some targeted just for developers with the latest and greatest). It helps to have the packages (PPA) come from some place official. I know about badger ports, I trust it, so I install from it, but thats just me. It seems to me that from the trust aspect, to cater to the most paranoid, doesn't the PPA have to (should) come from go-mono.com, or the domain of the distro? It may not always be possible to hang it off the disto's domain, so that leaves go-mono.com (and its aliases), but hosting a PPA or equivalent at go-mono, that involves ..? This reminds me of packman from when i used opensuse. It is listed on the opensuse site, so one get the official feeling, as apposed to just a repo added from some domain that technically could be (but usual unlikely) rogue. So putting aside the question of where the effort comes from for better ubuntu/mint support assuming its there, where can the PPA officially be housed for the paranoid (and rightfully so) consumer? Also, in it being officially housed, it also then benefits by that exposure, that is it has become official, its were people will naturally look for it, which has brought us around full circle. tl On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:54:37 +1200 Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with ubuntu 10.04? no Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped with ubuntu? yes Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be viable. So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono team like on windows and mac and opensuse. Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other supported operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this. Windows has first class support and yet no one uses mono on windows because .net is faster and more stable. Even mono develop for windows runs on .net and not on mono. How much effort does the mono team go to create mono installers for windows? isn't that the responsibility of Microsoft to make mono work on windows? What about Mac how much effort does the mono team spend making mono run on Mac isn't that the responsibility of Apple? So it's not about user base. The has been as must as stated on here that its because ubuntu is linux. So the mono team doesn't support ubuntu because its a linux
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
@miguel By the way what I'm taking from your comments is that if ubuntu was to refuse to package mono and include default mono applications mono support for ubuntu would actually improve. I wonder if someone should tell them.. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: I think mono should adopt the Jo Shields badgerports PPA as the offical ubuntu PPA. However in my mind this would involve more then just putting it on the download page. The mono team would have to make commitment to working with Jo to ensure that it was available from day one when a new release is made and that it was stable. It that was to happen I would be a happy man :) (sorry stifu I sent it to you instead of the list ... again) On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Stifu st...@free.fr wrote: I know Jo Shields (http://apebox.org/wordpress/) has is packaging Mono for Ubuntu. However, he may suffer from not having enough exposure, as people keep asking where to find the latest Mono release for Ubuntu. Wouldn't the solution simply be for the Mono download page to have a link to Jo's builds? The only problem I can think of is small delays before they're ready, compared to the other builds. ted leslie wrote: I had the same questions you had. I am a Mint user (the 4 largest OS in world, after ubuntu, OSX, Win32), and Mint is very pro user experience out of the box, and given were it is authored, it has lessor issue with licensing/patents and such. They actually have had (if I remember correctly) moonlight installed out of the box, in addition to codec's and such that are not normally on other distros. I did find Joe's badger ports and it does the trick for me. I also am hoping I can assist in that effort in some way, as I am glued to Mint. I understand your issues/concerns and also the other side as well (see Miguel's and other posts). It really can be seen as a marketing trade off. It costs to create these and support them, BUT I can't help thinking that investing the time better supporting Mint/Ubuntu, that it would (but only a guess) pay off by bringing more people into the community, there by getting a huge return on investment, one that makes it self sufficient. So to that end I do see it as odd. However, there needs to be community, and free contribution to the efforts, and hopefully, ideally, that can handle the task (in the case of Mint/Ubuntu). The other side of looking at it is, with Mint/Ubuntu being so huge, and statistically speaking, should generate a large pool of free resource to look after the task of its own repos for Mono. This brings me to another question. Suppose a combination of resources can build the Ubuntu/Mint packages (solid builds as they progress, even some targeted just for developers with the latest and greatest). It helps to have the packages (PPA) come from some place official. I know about badger ports, I trust it, so I install from it, but thats just me. It seems to me that from the trust aspect, to cater to the most paranoid, doesn't the PPA have to (should) come from go-mono.com, or the domain of the distro? It may not always be possible to hang it off the disto's domain, so that leaves go-mono.com (and its aliases), but hosting a PPA or equivalent at go-mono, that involves ..? This reminds me of packman from when i used opensuse. It is listed on the opensuse site, so one get the official feeling, as apposed to just a repo added from some domain that technically could be (but usual unlikely) rogue. So putting aside the question of where the effort comes from for better ubuntu/mint support assuming its there, where can the PPA officially be housed for the paranoid (and rightfully so) consumer? Also, in it being officially housed, it also then benefits by that exposure, that is it has become official, its were people will naturally look for it, which has brought us around full circle. tl On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:54:37 +1200 Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with ubuntu 10.04? no Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped with ubuntu? yes Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be viable. So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono team like on windows and mac and opensuse. Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other supported operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this. Windows has first class support and yet no one uses mono on windows because .net is faster and more stable. Even mono develop for windows runs on .net and not on mono. How much effort does the mono team go to create mono installers for windows? isn't that the responsibility of Microsoft
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
After looking at the go-mono.com site closer, I would suggest the following: On download page, there is a other (linux tm image) link/button, that then bring up another line of 2. Mono for Unsupported or Community-Supported Distribution Novell does not offer support for your distribution. A number of distributions are supported by their own communities instead. Please select your platform below: Debian Ubuntu Other -- I would propose (dealing just with Ubuntu in this discussion) have Ubuntu listed as Community-Supported, and not tied to the Unsupported banner. As well, have it always display (rather then switched into the page only when the other is selected). Also perhaps adding in Ubuntu derived i.e. Mint, Kubuntu, etc. as a further descriptor under the link. Then when it goes to the Ubuntu specific page, all the warnings and explanation can stay. It then forwards off to badgerports.org, where I would suggest (to Joe), that this become more of an official page (or change the domain and create new site, i.e. go-mono-ubuntu.com, etc). This all under the condition the effort/results meets the mono community definition of a Community-Supported distro. I am not sure what that condition is however, but I assume it has to do with showing a history of support from member of the community, and that it generally works. Assuming this could happen, it then leaves the questions of who does this distro package (Joe should get help) [ I'd love to help, and I assume there are others], and, how is the badgerports (or new) domain funded/hosted (does the mono community as a whole, and/or Novell help with this)? Maybe this could be hosted off of the Mint domain as well, probably should be hosted at two places for redundancy. Just my 0.02 tl On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:32:52 +1200 Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: I think mono should adopt the Jo Shields badgerports PPA as the offical ubuntu PPA. However in my mind this would involve more then just putting it on the download page. The mono team would have to make commitment to working with Jo to ensure that it was available from day one when a new release is made and that it was stable. It that was to happen I would be a happy man :) (sorry stifu I sent it to you instead of the list ... again) On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Stifu st...@free.fr wrote: I know Jo Shields (http://apebox.org/wordpress/) has is packaging Mono for Ubuntu. However, he may suffer from not having enough exposure, as people keep asking where to find the latest Mono release for Ubuntu. Wouldn't the solution simply be for the Mono download page to have a link to Jo's builds? The only problem I can think of is small delays before they're ready, compared to the other builds. ted leslie wrote: I had the same questions you had. I am a Mint user (the 4 largest OS in world, after ubuntu, OSX, Win32), and Mint is very pro user experience out of the box, and given were it is authored, it has lessor issue with licensing/patents and such. They actually have had (if I remember correctly) moonlight installed out of the box, in addition to codec's and such that are not normally on other distros. I did find Joe's badger ports and it does the trick for me. I also am hoping I can assist in that effort in some way, as I am glued to Mint. I understand your issues/concerns and also the other side as well (see Miguel's and other posts). It really can be seen as a marketing trade off. It costs to create these and support them, BUT I can't help thinking that investing the time better supporting Mint/Ubuntu, that it would (but only a guess) pay off by bringing more people into the community, there by getting a huge return on investment, one that makes it self sufficient. So to that end I do see it as odd. However, there needs to be community, and free contribution to the efforts, and hopefully, ideally, that can handle the task (in the case of Mint/Ubuntu). The other side of looking at it is, with Mint/Ubuntu being so huge, and statistically speaking, should generate a large pool of free resource to look after the task of its own repos for Mono. This brings me to another question. Suppose a combination of resources can build the Ubuntu/Mint packages (solid builds as they progress, even some targeted just for developers with the latest and greatest). It helps to have the packages (PPA) come from some place official. I know about badger ports, I trust it, so I install from it, but thats just me. It seems to me that from the trust aspect, to cater to the most paranoid, doesn't the PPA have to (should) come from go-mono.com, or the domain of the distro? It may not always be possible to hang it off the disto's domain, so that leaves
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
I know that is a bit offtopic, but I think that for Ubuntu users, isn't too hard install lastest versions of Mono compiling it from tarball. There are some guides and tutorials that explain in detail step by step the installation, and it explains all dependencies that must be satisfied previously if you want to install Mono in a fresh installation of Ubuntu. In mi case, I use Ubuntu 10.04 and I enjoy Mono 2.6.7 with Monodevelop 2.4 (and Moonlight 2.0 SDK), both compiled from tarball. Maybe, an alternative, is to publish an official guide that explain how to install Mono compiling from tarball in a fresh installation of a Linux distribution, so that everyone that wants to install Mono from tarball in his favorite Linux distribution, can do as easily as possible. Daniel Soto... I'm other :-) 2010/8/11 Miguel de Icaza mig...@novell.com @miguel By the way what I'm taking from your comments is that if ubuntu was to refuse to package mono and include default mono applications mono support for ubuntu would actually improve. I wonder if someone should tell them.. I can not comment as the above sentence turned out to be impossible to parse. You might want to clarify, unless you are trolling, in which case, dont bother. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
Quote so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions where Mono is not included by default So if ubuntu did not support mono by including it by default. Then you would package it. Ubuntu would get first class support from the mono team. We would get new versions of mono as they are released and so mono support on ubuntu would be improved. Was I trolling? maybe. This is born from frustration. In which case I apologize and will attempt to be more constructive. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@novell.com wrote: @miguel By the way what I'm taking from your comments is that if ubuntu was to refuse to package mono and include default mono applications mono support for ubuntu would actually improve. I wonder if someone should tell them.. I can not comment as the above sentence turned out to be impossible to parse. You might want to clarify, unless you are trolling, in which case, dont bother. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: Quote so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions where Mono is not included by default So if ubuntu did not support mono by including it by default. Then you would package it. Ubuntu would get first class support from the mono team. We would get new versions of mono as they are released and so mono support on ubuntu would be improved. I could be wrong, but I think you don't understand how packaging works in linux distributions, which is why you're not getting the explanations that have been put forth already. The developer of the application provides the code, and the distribution packages it. Each distro has their own rules and software for packaging, as well as package mantainers and their own schedule for providing new versions of packages. If a distro chooses to not update a package to a more current version, it can be because of many things: 1) they have custom patches that need porting 2) they prefer not to touch system packages until the next major distro release 3) they have long qa/approval cycles for updates 4) a million other reasons, as miguel explained earlier. We do the best we can supporting OSs and distros that don't have package maintainers (or not even a concept of that) or where we're the maintainers ourselves. We're not the Debian or Ubuntu maintainers. Go look at the homepages of pretty much any software available on Ubuntu and note that they don't provide packages, just tarballs. That's how things work in the Linux world. I think we all understand your frustration about this, but insisting on it when everyone has explained it to you repeatedly is not going to make it happen any differently. Ubuntu is extremely well supported, it's dead easy to compile your own Mono if you want, you can use Jo's PPA if you prefer, there's basically a bunch of different ways to update Mono on your system with little effort. You might not like how the Linux packaging process works, but that's how it is, and discussing the pros and cons of particular philosophy is a topic for other mailing lists, I think. andreia gaita ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Desktop Silverlight applicaition for Linux
I haven't read the EULA so take this for what it's worth ... but if you're embedding Moonlight (not Silverlight) then Silverlight's license should not apply. With that said, why would you want to embed anyway? Why not just create a SL out-of-browser app? The functionality was introduced in SL3 and even greater support for the scenario is now in SL4. Now there are still some issues. 1. I don't know much about MultiPoint (disclaimer: this is the first I heard of it and just quickly looked at a video) but it looks *very* specific to Windows and I doubt very much you can integrate it with Linux. 2. Moonlight is always behind in its release schedule to Silverlight and I don't think out-of-browser is fully supported yet. On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Robert Jordan robe...@gmx.net wrote: On 11.08.2010 17:48, optimus_prime wrote: Previously, I got a suggestion -- Sure, Silverlight isn't intended for the desktop, but there's no reason why you can't embed a silverlight engine in your application. It's been done before such as for the Mac NY Times Reader. You'll have better luck working with Moonlight, which targets the Silverlight API, which is a subset of full WPF I am new to Linux but have some experience in Windows apps and I wanted to know if Multi Point could be implemented in Linux? There is a reason not to use Silverlight in a dektop application: Last time I checked the license (a couple of months ago), Microsoft did not allow to redistribute Silverlight. This means that it has to be downloaded from MS and installed on the target machine at installation time of the application that embeds it. Robert ___ Mono-list maillist - mono-l...@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
Ubuntu does not believe it is its responsibility to update mono between OS releases. Mono does not believe it is its responsibility to provide ubuntu packages for new mono releases. Users fall into a gap between the two. And must compile from source or use unsupported third party PPA's if and when they are available. This is the way it is and this discussion shows that it will not change. Thank you all for explaining this to me. I see no reason for any further discussion here. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Andreia Gaita shana.u...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: Quote so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions where Mono is not included by default So if ubuntu did not support mono by including it by default. Then you would package it. Ubuntu would get first class support from the mono team. We would get new versions of mono as they are released and so mono support on ubuntu would be improved. I could be wrong, but I think you don't understand how packaging works in linux distributions, which is why you're not getting the explanations that have been put forth already. The developer of the application provides the code, and the distribution packages it. Each distro has their own rules and software for packaging, as well as package mantainers and their own schedule for providing new versions of packages. If a distro chooses to not update a package to a more current version, it can be because of many things: 1) they have custom patches that need porting 2) they prefer not to touch system packages until the next major distro release 3) they have long qa/approval cycles for updates 4) a million other reasons, as miguel explained earlier. We do the best we can supporting OSs and distros that don't have package maintainers (or not even a concept of that) or where we're the maintainers ourselves. We're not the Debian or Ubuntu maintainers. Go look at the homepages of pretty much any software available on Ubuntu and note that they don't provide packages, just tarballs. That's how things work in the Linux world. I think we all understand your frustration about this, but insisting on it when everyone has explained it to you repeatedly is not going to make it happen any differently. Ubuntu is extremely well supported, it's dead easy to compile your own Mono if you want, you can use Jo's PPA if you prefer, there's basically a bunch of different ways to update Mono on your system with little effort. You might not like how the Linux packaging process works, but that's how it is, and discussing the pros and cons of particular philosophy is a topic for other mailing lists, I think. andreia gaita ___ Mono-list maillist - mono-l...@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
On 08/11/2010 09:24 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote: Ubuntu does not believe it is its responsibility to update mono between OS releases. It's their responsibility to update *all* of their packages between OS releases. If they don't, then they presumably had a reason not to. It's kinda hard for them not to take responsibility for the packages they ship ;-) Mono does not believe it is its responsibility to provide ubuntu packages for new mono releases. Users fall into a gap between the two. And must compile from source or use unsupported third party PPA's if and when they are available. Jo (aka Directhex) is the guy that packages Mono for Ubuntu proper, so his PPA isn't really third party. Hope that helps, Jeff ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Desktop Silverlight applicaition for Linux
Multipoint would need support from the X server. I don't know if it exists or not. On Aug 11, 2010 11:48 AM, optimus_prime author.blog...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Well, I am planning to develop a desktop application using Silverlight and want the same app to be available for Linux too. I intend to use Microsoft's Multi Point technology where we can connect more than one mouse with our machine and different pointers are available for each one of the mice. Previously, I got a suggestion -- Sure, Silverlight isn't intended for the desktop, but there's no reason why you can't embed a silverlight engine in your application. It's been done before such as for the Mac NY Times Reader. You'll have better luck working with Moonlight, which targets the Silverlight API, which is a subset of full WPF I am new to Linux but have some experience in Windows apps and I wanted to know if Multi Point could be implemented in Linux? -- *fingers crossed* After all, there's nothing impossible in programming!!! -- View this message in context: http://mono.1490590.n4.nabble.com/Desktop-Silverlight-applicaition-for-Linux-tp2321439p2321439.html Sent from the Mono - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
By the way I use Jo's PPA (bandger ports). I can highly recommend it to anyone out there trying to run the latest mono develop. Or who needs bug fixes or performance improvements from new mono releases. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Jeffrey Stedfast f...@novell.com wrote: On 08/11/2010 09:24 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote: Ubuntu does not believe it is its responsibility to update mono between OS releases. It's their responsibility to update *all* of their packages between OS releases. If they don't, then they presumably had a reason not to. It's kinda hard for them not to take responsibility for the packages they ship ;-) Mono does not believe it is its responsibility to provide ubuntu packages for new mono releases. Users fall into a gap between the two. And must compile from source or use unsupported third party PPA's if and when they are available. Jo (aka Directhex) is the guy that packages Mono for Ubuntu proper, so his PPA isn't really third party. Hope that helps, Jeff ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Réponse automatique d'absence du bur eau : Desktop Silverlight applicaition for Linux
French dude, do you just send the same parley-vow-franshe reply to every post? Get a lift dude. -- View this message in context: http://mono.1490590.n4.nabble.com/Desktop-Silverlight-applicaition-for-Linux-tp2321439p2322112.html Sent from the Mono - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Réponse automatique d'absence du bur eau : Desktop Silverlight applicaition for Linux
No need to be rudely xenophobic. It's clearly a misconfigured out of office response. On Aug 11, 2010 10:28 PM, Newbie2910 speedu...@comcast.net wrote: French dude, do you just send the same parley-vow-franshe reply to every post? Get a lift dude. -- View this message in context: http://mono.1490590.n4.nabble.com/Desktop-Silverlight-applicaition-for-Linux-tp2321439p2322112.html Sent from the Mono - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
Quote so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions where Mono is not included by default So if ubuntu did not support mono by including it by default. Then you would package it. Ubuntu would get first class support from the mono team. We would get new versions of mono as they are released and so mono support on ubuntu would be improved. You are quoting without the rest of the context, you are setting up a straw man and then you attempt to bring it down. It is also trivial to debunk your thesis. Fedora does not ship Mono by default, and we do not package it for Fedora either. The Fedora packages are maintained by the community. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
I understand and apologize. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 2:35 PM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@novell.com wrote: Quote so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions where Mono is not included by default So if ubuntu did not support mono by including it by default. Then you would package it. Ubuntu would get first class support from the mono team. We would get new versions of mono as they are released and so mono support on ubuntu would be improved. You are quoting without the rest of the context, you are setting up a straw man and then you attempt to bring it down. It is also trivial to debunk your thesis. Fedora does not ship Mono by default, and we do not package it for Fedora either. The Fedora packages are maintained by the community. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
