Re: [Mono-list] Port to symbian?
Hey, I figured Mono was way too big for my phone and Symbian OS only includes a POSIX compatibility library and otherwise uses C++ libraries along with its own conventions, so porting Mono directly seemed problematic at least. Mono does require very little from the underlying OS other than Posix. It might be interesting to get it working on that platform as well. Writing a fully compliant CLI is going to take a lot longer than carefully turning features off (we already support turning a few features off, see: http://www.mono-project.com/Small_footprint For more details. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Port to symbian?
Hi, I figured Mono was way too big for my phone and Symbian OS only includes a POSIX compatibility library and otherwise uses C++ libraries along with its own conventions, so porting Mono directly seemed problematic at least. Mono does require very little from the underlying OS other than Posix. It might be interesting to get it working on that platform as well. I defintely agree that this would have been the easiest, yes. Mono does use TLS so would be okay, however I am not aware of any of its dependencies (glib, etc.) being available, also Symbian uses its own (ugly) Perl-based make system on Windows. Writing a fully compliant CLI is going to take a lot longer than carefully turning features off I'd guess that! (we already support turning a few features off, see: http://www.mono-project.com/Small_footprint For more details. Last time I checked I believe Mono was about 8 MB in whole. By comparison my phone has 4 MB in whole minus RAM and data (with no memory expansion possibilities) so a CLI should be no larger than maybe 500 KB - I doubt a compiler optimization, stripped debug symbols and locales would make such a big difference, and regarding the required autoconf etc. changes getting Mono to compile on Intel OS X was already a hard thing for me! I can understand that Symbian OS (just like Solaris) is not Novell's top priority, but there was virtually no response from other potential contributors - the posts were originally about porting Mono after all - and alone I am at a loss there. Symbian OS rarely uses exes but mostly dlls even for applications up to Symbian OS 8.x, so memory cleanup is key which it does using strict two-phase object construction, a cleanup stack and its own exception handling mechanism (C++ exceptions only on Symbian OS 9.x); to support this infrastructure there are so-called descriptors that wrap access to arrays or memory areas. Supporting all this would make the Mono codebase pretty ugly with lots of #ifdefs. Andreas ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Port to symbian?
Hello, I defintely agree that this would have been the easiest, yes. Mono does use TLS so would be okay, however I am not aware of any of its dependencies (glib, etc.) being available, also Symbian uses its own (ugly) Perl-based make system on Windows. Mono now ships with an embedded glib, it passes all the runtime tests: ./configure --with-glib=embedded This will use its own tiny and embeddable glib, instead of having a system dependency. Last time I checked I believe Mono was about 8 MB in whole. By comparison my phone has 4 MB in whole minus RAM and data (with no memory expansion possibilities) so a CLI should be no larger than maybe 500 KB - I doubt a compiler optimization, stripped debug symbols and locales would make such a big difference, and regarding the required autoconf etc. A full Mono runtime, with full localization and a complete corlib and System takes 4 megs of space (this is from looking at bundles like Unity's web player for Windows). You can reduce 150k from glib alone, 500k from removing the tables, and when it comes to the class libraries, you can remove all the functionality not needed (or better yet, use the linker, it needs a few fixes for mscorlib, but you get the idea). Symbian OS rarely uses exes but mostly dlls even for applications up to Symbian OS 8.x, so memory cleanup is key which it does using strict two-phase object construction, a cleanup stack and its own exception handling mechanism (C++ exceptions only on Symbian OS 9.x); to support this infrastructure there are so-called descriptors that wrap access to arrays or memory areas. Supporting all this would make the Mono codebase pretty ugly with lots of #ifdefs. Not really, we just have to factor things out, for instance, instead of using ifdefs for architectures, we use separate files for each architecture. Nothing is stopping us from doing the same here. But then again, if we are talking about 10 ifdefs, thats probably manageable, if we are talking about 1000 then we might want to put them in a separate file. Miguel. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
[Mono-list] Port to symbian?
Found the question about Symbian in the below posting - Would just like to add a vote. Mobility is key - am I wrong when I say most new applications has a mobility perspective We should have at least an official opinion on this Thomas http://lists.ximian.com/pipermail/mono-list/2006-August/032404.html I would like to know if somebody is working in porting mono to symbian OS. Is there any work in progress around it Id be interested to hear that too The only related product I know of is AppForge Crossfire http:// www.appforge.com/products/crossfire/index.htmlwhich is commercial. Mono does appear to support the ARM processor http://www.mono- project.com/Mono:ARM the biggest issue I see is that the memory management is considerably different on Symbian OS cleanup stack and non-constant global variables are problematic. Regards ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Port to symbian?
Hi Thomas,Found the question about Symbian in the below posting - Would just like to add a vote. Mobility is key - am I wrong when I say most new applications has a mobility perspective? We should have at least an official opinion on this? ThomasHearing and finding nothing new on the topic, apart from another commercial CLI implementation, I have begun to write a small CLI interpreter for Symbian OS - I recently spent about a week getting from an mcs-compiled assembly to it writing its Hello World string to the console - last part is still a hack with all calls treated as calls to void Console.WriteLine(System.String), a not-type-safe stack and no compiling mscorlib yet and as a console app with static variables it only runs in the simulator. Anyway, I could share the code if there is interest.I figured Mono was way too big for my phone and Symbian OS only includes a POSIX compatibility library and otherwise uses C++ libraries along with its own conventions, so porting Mono directly seemed problematic at least.Helpful for any such effort would be if Mono's mcs were less tied to Microsofts .NET - for example it emits a non-standard version string and requires me to complete a number of classes before compiling mscorlib even if I don't use them yet...Andreas http://lists.ximian.com/pipermail/mono-list/2006-August/032404.htmlI would like to know if somebody is working in porting mono to symbian OS. Is there any work in progress around it? I'd be interested to hear that, too! The only related product I know of is AppForge Crossfire (http:// www.appforge.com/products/crossfire/index.html), which is commercial. Mono does appear to support the ARM processor (http://www.mono- project.com/Mono:ARM); the biggest issue I see is that the memory management is considerably different on Symbian OS (cleanup stack), and non-constant global variables are problematic.___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Port to symbian?
i have a nokia 9200i and would love to run mono apps on it, i'd be there as a tester for sure!! -tl On Fri, 2006-11-10 at 15:39 +0100, Andreas Färber wrote: Hi Thomas, Found the question about Symbian in the below posting - Would just like to add a vote. Mobility is key - am I wrong when I say most new applications has a mobility perspective? We should have at least an official opinion on this? Thomas Hearing and finding nothing new on the topic, apart from another commercial CLI implementation, I have begun to write a small CLI interpreter for Symbian OS - I recently spent about a week getting from an mcs-compiled assembly to it writing its Hello World string to the console - last part is still a hack with all calls treated as calls to void Console.WriteLine(System.String), a not-type-safe stack and no compiling mscorlib yet and as a console app with static variables it only runs in the simulator. Anyway, I could share the code if there is interest. I figured Mono was way too big for my phone and Symbian OS only includes a POSIX compatibility library and otherwise uses C++ libraries along with its own conventions, so porting Mono directly seemed problematic at least. Helpful for any such effort would be if Mono's mcs were less tied to Microsofts .NET - for example it emits a non-standard version string and requires me to complete a number of classes before compiling mscorlib even if I don't use them yet... Andreas http://lists.ximian.com/pipermail/mono-list/2006-August/032404.html I would like to know if somebody is working in porting mono to symbian OS. Is there any work in progress around it? I'd be interested to hear that, too! The only related product I know of is AppForge Crossfire (http:// www.appforge.com/products/crossfire/index.html), which is commercial. Mono does appear to support the ARM processor (http://www.mono- project.com/Mono:ARM); the biggest issue I see is that the memory management is considerably different on Symbian OS (cleanup stack), and non-constant global variables are problematic. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
[Mono-list] Port to symbian
Hi, I would like to know if somebody is working in porting mono to symbian OS. Is there any work in progress around it? Best regards G. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Port to symbian
Hi,I would like to know if somebody is working in porting mono to symbian OS. Is there any work in progress around it?I'd be interested to hear that, too!The only related product I know of is AppForge Crossfire (http://www.appforge.com/products/crossfire/index.html), which is commercial.Mono does appear to support the ARM processor (http://www.mono-project.com/Mono:ARM); the biggest issue I see is that the memory management is considerably different on Symbian OS (cleanup stack), and non-constant global variables are problematic.Regards,Andreas___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
