Re: [Monotone-devel] Re: netsync connection info cleanup

2010-06-10 Thread Stephen Leake
Timothy Brownawell tbrow...@prjek.net writes:

 Hrm - should we really disallow them by default? Another option could be
 to just issue a warning and let the user go ahead. Wireing in the code
 which errors out in an invalid case and correctly rolling back might be
 cumbersome, given the fact that we have a couple of places from which we
 create branch certs (approve, commit -b, cert, automate cert, setup,
 import, cvs_import, ...)

 A warning after the fact doesn't help much, by the time you see it
 you've already got your hard-to-work-with branch name. Unless we want
 to add a 'db rename_branch_locally' or similar to make this fixable
 after-the-fact, and then point that out in the warning. That might
 actually be the better solution.

This is a reasonable approach, but personally I would prefer an error (I
always prefer errors over warnings; it's just too easy to miss
warnings).

The error can be detected as soon as the branch name is specified, so I
don't see why backing out would be a problem. We have to add code in the
same places to get the warning. Hmm. I guess that's not true; the
warning code could be deeper in, so that could be fewer places.

This is another case where it would be best to allow the user to set the
default they want, but be able to override that default easily.

That requires overridable options; supporting '--foo ... --no-foo'.

Overridable options has come up a few times before; maybe we should make
that a required feature for 1.0? I have not looked into how hard that
would be.

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[Monotone-devel] [bug #20711] Monotone 0.36 segfaults when inlined with gcc 3.4.6.

2010-06-10 Thread Stephen Leake

Follow-up Comment #4, bug #20711 (project monotone):

cygwin is on gcc 4.3.4, but does not show this bug

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[Monotone-devel] [bug #20711] Monotone 0.36 segfaults when inlined with gcc 3.4.6.

2010-06-10 Thread Łukasz Krotowski

Follow-up Comment #5, bug #20711 (project monotone):

Well, as original reporter, I must say that I forgot about that specific
compiler version long time ago (and switched to git, but that's different
issue).

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Re: [Monotone-devel] Re: netsync connection info cleanup

2010-06-10 Thread Thomas Keller
Am 10.06.2010 09:49, schrieb Stephen Leake:
 Timothy Brownawell tbrow...@prjek.net writes:
 
 Hrm - should we really disallow them by default? Another option could be
 to just issue a warning and let the user go ahead. Wireing in the code
 which errors out in an invalid case and correctly rolling back might be
 cumbersome, given the fact that we have a couple of places from which we
 create branch certs (approve, commit -b, cert, automate cert, setup,
 import, cvs_import, ...)

 A warning after the fact doesn't help much, by the time you see it
 you've already got your hard-to-work-with branch name. Unless we want
 to add a 'db rename_branch_locally' or similar to make this fixable
 after-the-fact, and then point that out in the warning. That might
 actually be the better solution.
 
 This is a reasonable approach, but personally I would prefer an error (I
 always prefer errors over warnings; it's just too easy to miss
 warnings).

See my earlier mail - how do we handle old workspaces with then invalid
branch names? I don't like the idea of bailing out with an error for
every workspace command just because the used branch option is wrong...

 This is another case where it would be best to allow the user to set the
 default they want, but be able to override that default easily.
 
 That requires overridable options; supporting '--foo ... --no-foo'.
 
 Overridable options has come up a few times before; maybe we should make
 that a required feature for 1.0? I have not looked into how hard that
 would be.

See also my earlier mail - where do we want to draw the line? What is
reasonable to expect as development outcome for the next, say, 4 weeks
in June and July, where its hot everywhere...? Do we really want to
block everything else until then?

Thomas.

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Re: [Monotone-devel] mtn-viz

2010-06-10 Thread Richard Levitte
In message 20100609161751.ga16...@tenebreuse on Wed, 9 Jun 2010 18:17:51 
+0200, Stéphane Gimenez d...@gim.name said:

dev Hi,
dev 
dev  What's happening with mtn-viz?  Which of the branches is the most
dev  current?  I just tried nvm.monotone-viz.new-stdio, thinking that it
dev  should work, but can't get it to compile properly:
dev 
dev  ocamlopt.opt  -I /usr/lib/ocaml/3.10.1/lablgtk2 -I glib  -c 
glib/viz_gmisc.ml
dev  File glib/viz_gmisc.ml, line 4, characters 33-64:
dev  Error: Unbound type constructor Gtk.obj
dev  make: *** [glib/viz_gmisc.cmx] Fel 2
dev 
dev You need -dev packages or equivalent.
dev On debian you need lablgtk2-ocaml-dev to compile mtn-viz.
dev 
dev It is likely to be the cause of this compilation failure.
dev 
dev Header files (.mli) and some source (.ml) files are needed in
dev your /usr/lib/ocaml/3.10.1/lablgtk2 directory.

*blush* reconfiguring resolved the problem.

-- 
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http://richard.levitte.org/

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Re: [Monotone-devel] mtn-viz

2010-06-10 Thread Richard Levitte
In message 4c0e330c.4000...@unchartedbackwaters.co.uk on Tue, 08 Jun 2010 
13:09:48 +0100, Francis Russell fran...@unchartedbackwaters.co.uk said:

francis Richard Levitte wrote:
francis  What's happening with mtn-viz?  Which of the branches is the most
francis  current?  I just tried nvm.monotone-viz.new-stdio, thinking that it
francis  should work, but can't get it to compile properly:
francis 
francis The new-stdio branch is meant to be compatible with the monotone
francis automate interface in 0.47. However, the code currently in the 
new-stdio
francis branch is buggy, see
francis http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=574562. I was sent a
francis patch by the upstream author of the new-stdio changes to fix it in
francis March. It's rather concerning that the patch I was sent doesn't seem to
francis be present in any monotone-viz repository, despite being copied to the
francis monotone-viz developer. Also, the current release version of
francis monotone-viz doesn't even contain the buggy support for 0.47.

Hmmm, what are the symptoms of the buggy support?  I'm running it now
and I don't see any failure...

Cheers,
Richard

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Re: [Monotone-devel] mtn-viz

2010-06-10 Thread Francis Russell
Richard Levitte wrote:

 Hmmm, what are the symptoms of the buggy support?  I'm running it now
 and I don't see any failure...

Refreshing the graph a few times even when redrawing had completed each
time, would cause the  error 'Uncaught exception: Failure(mtn stdio
uses an unknown format-version)'.

Francis

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Re: [Monotone-devel] Re: netsync connection info cleanup

2010-06-10 Thread Stephen Leake
Thomas Keller m...@thomaskeller.biz writes:

 Am 10.06.2010 09:49, schrieb Stephen Leake:
 Timothy Brownawell tbrow...@prjek.net writes:
 
 Hrm - should we really disallow them by default? Another option could be
 to just issue a warning and let the user go ahead. Wireing in the code
 which errors out in an invalid case and correctly rolling back might be
 cumbersome, given the fact that we have a couple of places from which we
 create branch certs (approve, commit -b, cert, automate cert, setup,
 import, cvs_import, ...)

 A warning after the fact doesn't help much, by the time you see it
 you've already got your hard-to-work-with branch name. Unless we want
 to add a 'db rename_branch_locally' or similar to make this fixable
 after-the-fact, and then point that out in the warning. That might
 actually be the better solution.
 
 This is a reasonable approach, but personally I would prefer an error (I
 always prefer errors over warnings; it's just too easy to miss
 warnings).

 See my earlier mail - how do we handle old workspaces with then invalid
 branch names? I don't like the idea of bailing out with an error for
 every workspace command just because the used branch option is
 wrong...

Yes; the warning or error should only occur on the creation of a new
branch.

 This is another case where it would be best to allow the user to set the
 default they want, but be able to override that default easily.
 
 That requires overridable options; supporting '--foo ... --no-foo'.
 
 Overridable options has come up a few times before; maybe we should make
 that a required feature for 1.0? I have not looked into how hard that
 would be.

 See also my earlier mail - where do we want to draw the line? 

I'm suggesting we draw the line to include overridable options. But we'd
have to be ok with saying this is too hard after seriously looking at
it.

 What is reasonable to expect as development outcome for the next, say,
 4 weeks in June and July, where its hot everywhere...? 

I don't think we should make it a time issue, as long as people are
making reasonable progress on each feature we agree to hold the release for.

 Do we really want to block everything else until then?

That's what branches are for. We could continue the current release
pattern (not switch to 0.99) until all 1.0 features are ready.

However, I think overrideable options is the only such feature mentioned
so far? Have I missed something?

And I'm not saying we must hold 1.0 for this. I think it would be good,
but I'm willing to go along if the consensus is to not wait for it.

Since the gnuopts package provides overridable options, lots of
applications have them. So it will be perceived as a flaw that mtn
doesn't.

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Re: [Monotone-devel] Time for a release

2010-06-10 Thread Thomas Keller
Am 04.06.2010 16:26, schrieb Thomas Moschny:
 Am Fri, 04 Jun 2010 01:45:44 +0200
 schrieb Thomas Keller m...@thomaskeller.biz:
 
 While I'm going to manage the upcoming 0.99 and 1.0.0 releases, I'd
 like to give my release manager hat to somebody else afterwards, so I
 can concentrate on other things a bit more. I'm not out of the world,
 so whoever wants to take the job can of course count on my help.
 
 Thanks for doing the job for a so long time now!

Thank you all for being patient with me :)

 Doing releases does not involve much - the process is fairly good
 documented. Perhaps the most important skills are a bit of a passion
 for the software and some accuracy :)

 So, who's up for the job?
 
 If no one else is interested, I'd volunteer.

Since nobody else spoke up over the last couple of days, you've been
automatically selected ;) - thanks for taking the opportunity!

Thomas.

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Re: [Monotone-devel] Re: netsync connection info cleanup

2010-06-10 Thread Timothy Brownawell

On 06/10/2010 04:45 AM, Thomas Keller wrote:

Am 10.06.2010 05:02, schrieb Timothy Brownawell:



What sort of other things, more user-visible changes or internal code
hygiene?


Both, actually:

* cleanup the connection info handling mess
* remove the code for the other include / exclude variants with
include= and exclude=
* discourage branch names which conflict the new uri scheme as discussed
either with a warning or an error
* let clone accept mtn:// uris
* deprecate SERVER [BRANCH [--exclude=PATTERN [...]]] arguments to push
/ pull / sync - I'd then include code to fall back on already existing
branch patterns if f.e. a user only enters mtn://some.server instead of
mtn://some.server?some.branch


We have automate {push,pull,sync} now, so the second and last items 
would I think be incompatible automate changes and therefore a major 
version change. And releasing 2.0 very soon after 1.0 would probably get 
people to look at us funny...



Right now mtn:// sync doesn't work at all, and it really would
be nice for 1.0 to support non-hacky virtual hosting without needing a
special DNS setup.


I'm a little torn between theee options here - release an unplanned 0.48
in the meantime to no longer block finished things and get your work
into trunk before we hit 0.99, let 0.99 wait until the above work has
been finished and just following the planned path and get the work into 1.1.
I don't want to change the plan too often. What if other people suddenly
want to get a certain thing done before the glorious 1.0 hits the
street? Where do I stop? Opinions anybody?

To not mess too much with the masterplan I tend to wait for 0.99 a
little longer...


What *breaking* (ie, major-version change; automate major number bump or 
non-negotiable network incompatibility) changes do we have that can 
reasonably be expected to be ready in less than, say, 2 months? (Any 
major-version changes not ready in time would have to wait... probably 
at least a year, in the absence of any brown-paper-bag design bugs. 
Minor-version changes can of course happen whenever.)


- getting rid of SERVER [PATTERN ... [--exclude=PATTERN ...]]
   - this is a breaking change, and should be doable in that time
- get rid of long-form include=... exclude=... syntax for uri syncs
   - breaking change; doable in 2 months
?? fixing mtn:// sync; passing 'path' info to usher
   - not really a breaking change; but releasing 1.0 without this
 would be expected to reduce hosting choices/quality for as
 long as 1.0 stays in general use. This is ready now.
- extended selectors
   - not a breaking change? (actually I guess it is; you need to escape
 some additional rarely-used characters). This is ready now.
- deprecating some branch names
   - there is no automate commit, but at least the error version
 would probably mean changing the behavior of automate cert
 and I'm not sure if the warning version would count as a change.
 But as noted below I think now that this is silly and we probably
 don't want to bother with it. If we do do this, it's doable
 in 2 months.
 * policy branches
   - not even close to 2 months, more like a year or year and a half
 * daggy refinement
   - can be made compatible; not really started so longer than 2 months
 * SSL for netsync
   - can be made compatible; also not really started, so longer
 than 2 months
 * rename --guess (I think there's a branch out there for this)
   - not a breaking change
 * partial pull
   - not started, way more than 2 months; wouldn't be a breaking change
 in that fallback to an older netsync version is possible (but
 partial pulls would only work with a recent enough server)
 * get rid of die-die-die
   - this would probalby require change the revision format, so it would
 be a breaking change; but it's way longer than 2 months
 * 'mountpoint' node type to replace merge_into_dir
   - this would definitely require changing the revision format, and
 would definitely take longer than 2 months
 * a way to remove illegal files from history
   - requires cooperation between client and server, would be a breaking
 change; way longer than 2 months
 * netsync preview
   - not a breaking change; depending on what's in the preview it likely
 wouldn't even affect the wire protocol at all


A warning after the fact doesn't help much, by the time you see it
you've already got your hard-to-work-with branch name. Unless we want to
add a 'db rename_branch_locally' or similar to make this fixable
after-the-fact, and then point that out in the warning. That might
actually be the better solution.


I'm still up for a warning - what if you have a checked out workspace
and upgrade to the mtn version which disallows its particular naming?
You won't be able to do a single commit any longer.


That would be handled by permitting any branch name that already exists.

...really, this whole thing is a bit silly. Nobody actually uses funny 
characters in their branch 

Re: [Monotone-devel] Re: netsync connection info cleanup

2010-06-10 Thread Thomas Keller
Am 10.06.10 18:48, schrieb Timothy Brownawell:
 On 06/10/2010 04:45 AM, Thomas Keller wrote:
 Am 10.06.2010 05:02, schrieb Timothy Brownawell:
 
 What sort of other things, more user-visible changes or internal code
 hygiene?

 Both, actually:

 * cleanup the connection info handling mess
 * remove the code for the other include / exclude variants with
 include= and exclude=
 * discourage branch names which conflict the new uri scheme as discussed
 either with a warning or an error
 * let clone accept mtn:// uris
 * deprecate SERVER [BRANCH [--exclude=PATTERN [...]]] arguments to push
 / pull / sync - I'd then include code to fall back on already existing
 branch patterns if f.e. a user only enters mtn://some.server instead of
 mtn://some.server?some.branch
 
 We have automate {push,pull,sync} now, so the second and last items
 would I think be incompatible automate changes and therefore a major
 version change. And releasing 2.0 very soon after 1.0 would probably get
 people to look at us funny...

Right, thats why I'd just deprecate them - i.e. they are still fully
workable, but we say we remove that in 2.0 and we're using the URIs
everywhere, in the documentation, in the wiki, etc. pp. This kind of
deprecation should have no visible effect in the UI nor in automate.

 Right now mtn:// sync doesn't work at all, and it really would
 be nice for 1.0 to support non-hacky virtual hosting without needing a
 special DNS setup.

 I'm a little torn between theee options here - release an unplanned 0.48
 in the meantime to no longer block finished things and get your work
 into trunk before we hit 0.99, let 0.99 wait until the above work has
 been finished and just following the planned path and get the work
 into 1.1.
 I don't want to change the plan too often. What if other people suddenly
 want to get a certain thing done before the glorious 1.0 hits the
 street? Where do I stop? Opinions anybody?

 To not mess too much with the masterplan I tend to wait for 0.99 a
 little longer...
 
 What *breaking* (ie, major-version change; automate major number bump or
 non-negotiable network incompatibility) changes do we have that can
 reasonably be expected to be ready in less than, say, 2 months? (Any
 major-version changes not ready in time would have to wait... probably
 at least a year, in the absence of any brown-paper-bag design bugs.
 Minor-version changes can of course happen whenever.)
 
 - getting rid of SERVER [PATTERN ... [--exclude=PATTERN ...]]
- this is a breaking change, and should be doable in that time
 - get rid of long-form include=... exclude=... syntax for uri syncs
- breaking change; doable in 2 months
 ?? fixing mtn:// sync; passing 'path' info to usher
- not really a breaking change; but releasing 1.0 without this
  would be expected to reduce hosting choices/quality for as
  long as 1.0 stays in general use. This is ready now.
 - extended selectors
- not a breaking change? (actually I guess it is; you need to escape
  some additional rarely-used characters). This is ready now.
 - deprecating some branch names
- there is no automate commit, but at least the error version
  would probably mean changing the behavior of automate cert
  and I'm not sure if the warning version would count as a change.
  But as noted below I think now that this is silly and we probably
  don't want to bother with it. If we do do this, it's doable
  in 2 months.
  * policy branches
- not even close to 2 months, more like a year or year and a half
  * daggy refinement
- can be made compatible; not really started so longer than 2 months
  * SSL for netsync
- can be made compatible; also not really started, so longer
  than 2 months
  * rename --guess (I think there's a branch out there for this)
- not a breaking change
  * partial pull
- not started, way more than 2 months; wouldn't be a breaking change
  in that fallback to an older netsync version is possible (but
  partial pulls would only work with a recent enough server)
  * get rid of die-die-die
- this would probalby require change the revision format, so it would
  be a breaking change; but it's way longer than 2 months
  * 'mountpoint' node type to replace merge_into_dir
- this would definitely require changing the revision format, and
  would definitely take longer than 2 months
  * a way to remove illegal files from history
- requires cooperation between client and server, would be a breaking
  change; way longer than 2 months
  * netsync preview
- not a breaking change; depending on what's in the preview it likely
  wouldn't even affect the wire protocol at all

Nice list - is this directly from your personal todo...? :)

I won't comment on each single one - just two things:

1) We don't care about free-text out-of-band output, so if some command
issues a warning or a progress message more than before or differently,
no whatsoever version bump 

[Monotone-devel] [bug #30110] mtn status fails by default with multiple keys

2010-06-10 Thread Thomas Keller

URL:
  http://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/?30110

 Summary: mtn status fails by default with multiple keys 
 Project: monotone
Submitted by: tommyd
Submitted on: Do 10 Jun 2010 23:30:25 CEST
Category: command line UI
Severity: 3 - Normal
  Item Group: incorrect behavior
  Status: None
 Privacy: Public
 Assigned to: None
 Open/Closed: Open
 Discussion Lock: Any
  mtn version --full: mtn 0.48dev

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Details:

Tim reports on IRC:

$ mtn st
mtn: misuse: you have multiple private keys
mtn: misuse: pick one to use for signatures by adding '-kkeyname' to your
command


I can see it needs to know the key to get at what the author cert would be,
but that still seems a rather odd effect.




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Re: [Monotone-devel] Re: netsync connection info cleanup

2010-06-10 Thread Timothy Brownawell

On 06/10/2010 02:36 PM, Thomas Keller wrote:

Am 10.06.10 18:48, schrieb Timothy Brownawell:

On 06/10/2010 04:45 AM, Thomas Keller wrote:

Am 10.06.2010 05:02, schrieb Timothy Brownawell:



What sort of other things, more user-visible changes or internal code
hygiene?


Both, actually:

* cleanup the connection info handling mess
* remove the code for the other include / exclude variants with
include= and exclude=
* discourage branch names which conflict the new uri scheme as discussed
either with a warning or an error
* let clone accept mtn:// uris
* deprecate SERVER [BRANCH [--exclude=PATTERN [...]]] arguments to push
/ pull / sync - I'd then include code to fall back on already existing
branch patterns if f.e. a user only enters mtn://some.server instead of
mtn://some.server?some.branch


We have automate {push,pull,sync} now, so the second and last items
would I think be incompatible automate changes and therefore a major
version change. And releasing 2.0 very soon after 1.0 would probably get
people to look at us funny...


Right, thats why I'd just deprecate them - i.e. they are still fully
workable, but we say we remove that in 2.0 and we're using the URIs
everywhere, in the documentation, in the wiki, etc. pp. This kind of
deprecation should have no visible effect in the UI nor in automate.


OK, that makes sense.


Right now mtn:// sync doesn't work at all, and it really would
be nice for 1.0 to support non-hacky virtual hosting without needing a
special DNS setup.


I'm a little torn between theee options here - release an unplanned 0.48
in the meantime to no longer block finished things and get your work
into trunk before we hit 0.99, let 0.99 wait until the above work has
been finished and just following the planned path and get the work
into 1.1.
I don't want to change the plan too often. What if other people suddenly
want to get a certain thing done before the glorious 1.0 hits the
street? Where do I stop? Opinions anybody?

To not mess too much with the masterplan I tend to wait for 0.99 a
little longer...


What *breaking* (ie, major-version change; automate major number bump or
non-negotiable network incompatibility) changes do we have that can
reasonably be expected to be ready in less than, say, 2 months? (Any
major-version changes not ready in time would have to wait... probably
at least a year, in the absence of any brown-paper-bag design bugs.
Minor-version changes can of course happen whenever.)

-  getting rid of SERVER [PATTERN ... [--exclude=PATTERN ...]]
- this is a breaking change, and should be doable in that time
-  get rid of long-form include=... exclude=... syntax for uri syncs
- breaking change; doable in 2 months


So these two are non-breaking due to being just a deprecation instead of 
removal.



?? fixing mtn:// sync; passing 'path' info to usher
- not really a breaking change; but releasing 1.0 without this
  would be expected to reduce hosting choices/quality for as
  long as 1.0 stays in general use. This is ready now.
-  extended selectors
- not a breaking change? (actually I guess it is; you need to escape
  some additional rarely-used characters). This is ready now.
-  deprecating some branch names
- there is no automate commit, but at least the error version
  would probably mean changing the behavior of automate cert
  and I'm not sure if the warning version would count as a change.
  But as noted below I think now that this is silly and we probably
  don't want to bother with it. If we do do this, it's doable
  in 2 months.



Nice list - is this directly from your personal todo...? :)


Some of the things are, but I also checked the wiki and current branches 
and Pidgin's monotone limitations page.



I won't comment on each single one - just two things:

1) We don't care about free-text out-of-band output, so if some command
issues a warning or a progress message more than before or differently,
no whatsoever version bump should be introduced. This is not because
we're all lazy, but because this wouldn't be managable at all (imagine
an string fix deep in the code path which is executed by a normal and an
automate command).


Makes sense.


2) I acknowledge that a couple of people seem to be somewhat overrun by
the whole 1.0 discussion - and I'm almost convinced to release a 0.48
within the next few days and skip the 1.0 plans until the majority of
people (i.e. not just me apparently, I don't get much positive
feedback...) have a good feeling about it. Could we then at least have
some terminated goal, f.e. early this fall, to make 1.0 finally arrive then?


I'd like to see what other breaking changes people have in mind, that 
can be done reasonably soon. Say we take through this weekend to collect 
all breaking changes that can hit some deadline (2 months, or the end of 
September, or something), and then do 1.0 at the deadline or earlier if 
everything on the list is in.


It looks like we probably do 

Re: [Monotone-devel] usher

2010-06-10 Thread Timothy Brownawell

On 06/09/2010 07:21 AM, Thomas Keller wrote:

Am 17.04.2010 17:39, schrieb Timothy Brownawell:

On 04/15/2010 02:13 AM, Thomas Keller wrote:

Let's concentrate first to put usher in a release-capable state so
packagers (like me :) can pick it up. If it packaged I'll have a much
easier way to convince the guys over there at indefero some time to
install and configure it as monotone helper for the use case.


Seems reasonable.


Hi Tim!

Do you have this still on your schedule somewhere...? Is there anything
I could help you out with?

Thomas.



I got it so that 'make distcheck' works, so I suppose the only things 
left are making sure it works on *bsd, and then properly documenting 
which monotone client version is required for explicit server names to 
work (right now it's documented as 0.48).


--
Timothy

Free public monotone hosting: http://mtn-host.prjek.net

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