Re: [MOPO] SLABBING SHOULD BE VIGOROUSLY REJECTED
I find some of the comments about slabbing perplexing: And besides, I like how I frame my lobby cards and window cards and that doesn't include a half inch thick rectangular slab with bar scans stuck in plain view. Why make it worse by having people obsess over the exact grading of their items? Slabbing is great for lazy sellers, ignorant sellers, and greedy sellers I, personally, would rather hold that gorgeous 11 x 14 Laura lobby card in my hands, frayed border and all, then something that certainly appears to be a card, but I can't get at it Slabbing of cards would mark the turning point from collecting out of a passion for posters and movies to investing solely for financial gain From many of these comments it appears that many people view slabbing is some kind of permanent casing put on a lobby card that if tampered with it might explode like a bomb, that collectors shouldn't care about the condition of items in their collection and perish the thought that any collector might actually worry about the financial aspect of their hobby. Here are some truths about slabbing that never seem to get publicized: 1 - A great majority of X (fill the blank in here with whatever collectible you like that gets slabbed) will NEVER be slabbed, and there won't be any reason to slab them. The same would be true with lobbies - most lobbies would not ever need to be slabbed nor would there be a desire to slab them. There are nearly 6000 closed auctions in the USA lobby card section on eBay right now, yet less than 5% of these are at $99 or more (and far less than that percentage even have bids). 2 - YOU CAN REMOVE A LOBBY CARD FROM IT'S SLAB!! This might be shocking news, but the silliest thing I always hear is from the people that want to touch them, hold them, roll on them naked or whatever they want to do with their cards. You can still do all these things. If, god forbid, you ever accidentally end up with a lobby card that has been slabbed, simply crack it open and free it from it's prison. NO BIG DEAL. In fact there is a whole thread on the CGC forums (the biggest comic/coin slabbing company) filled with images of comics that people have purchased and then removed them from their holders. And yes we are talking comics in the four and five figure area. But the collectors don't mind spending the money on these books because they have the 3rd part assurances that they've been accurately described. 3 - Contrary to popular belief, there is actually benefit to collectors and not just greedy sellers when it comes to slabbing. A restoration check and an accurate idea of what to actually expect when you get your package. Despite Freeman's proclamation that he doesn't see that kind of skullduggery from poster sellers, Bruce just recently reported how disappointed he was when purchasing many posters again on eBay for the first time in years because of poor packing and GRADING DISCREPENCIES. Yes, it still exists. Many people either don't know how to grade or don't care too, and of course one person's Excellent is another person's very good. Why does this matter? Shouldn't you just be happy owning something so rare as a movie poster? Yes and no. Yes I really want to own that lobby card or I wouldn't have purchases it - but shouldn't I be entitled to get one that was properly described? Perhaps I would not have bid as high/paid as much if the seller had been honest about the condition. And is Bogart's face on my Casablanca card just an artist's rendering because it was cut out and just drawn back in or did it always look that way? 4 - Greedy, ignorant lazy sellers are the ones hurt most by 3rd party grading. No longer can they cut corners and sucker people the way they used to, now they can't buy items in good, post a small picture and call it a fine and hope to trap an unsuspecting buyer. Now they can't do a quick restoration job and try to flip their item as being unrestored. Slabbing actually served the purpose of driving many of the bad eggs out of other collectibles markets. (And no, slabbing isn't perfect and their will always be people who try to find an angle and cheat but it's certainly better than the check systems we have now). 5 - Some people want to get the very best condition they can afford and get discouraged when what they bought as an upgrade turns out to be a downgrade (and at a higher price). I have a Treasure of the Sierra Madre TC I'd like to upgrade at some point in time, but I've about given up doing it through online auctions because every time I purchase one it's invariably not as nice as I was told or there were hidden defects not seen in the (usually too small) photo. It would be great piece of mind if a seller was able to tell me yes it's been graded an 8 so I know that it's better than my 6 or 7 (or that it was graded a 5 so I know it's not the copy I'm looking for). Is slabbing the greatest thing since sliced bread? Probably not, but that doesn't mean it
[MOPO] SLABBING SHOULD BE VIGOROUSLY REJECTED
Slabbing. Bruce has offered up this subject so I'll bite. Why slabbing for lobby cards? I am to understand for coins, comics and trading cards, there existed a pervasive malaise in accurate condition reveal. With internet sales exploding, for comics, with multiple pages, a lot of sins were frequently overlooked and it was impacting the industry. So if I recall correctly, Heritage hosted a major comic auction and virtually all the items were slabbed and results were impressive Slabbing established its foothold. Now the company(ies) (are their still two?) who grade and slab are a business.and expansion of their supposed impartial grading to other paper formats is critical for their long-term foothold into the future. So just because they claim their is a problem are we as sellers just going to drop to our knees and rejoice that the Calvary is here to purge the cancer of egregious inaccuracies in the sales of lobby cards? For comics, fine, there existed a serious problem in accurate condition and grading within their sales universe and most agree it saved the biz. But I do not see anywhere that kind of skullduggery or mis-representation with the majority of auction houses or sellers present regarding movie material. So why jack up one's cost of goods with the additional fees for grading and slabbing, never mind additional insured postage. So if any auction house tries to instigateI cannot shout loud enough to not bid.tell your clients to not bid as well. If the prices don't deliver watch how fast they drop that idea. Our business is not broke, occasionally a tweek here or there is necessary but otherwise I think most people are happy with how sales are conducted. If they are not they will go to another that delivers to their expectations. Accepting the concept of slabbing is akin to saying were too indifferent and stupid to police our industry ...we need third party intervention...take our hard earned monies we're lobby card lemmings without conscience or backbone. And besides, I like how I frame my lobby cards and window cards and that doesn't include a a half inch thick rectangular slab with bar scans stuck in plain view more appropriate for display on retail racks for expensive Monster Cables not treasured lobby cards. SLABBING= Irrelevant, unnecessary, an imposition, costly and demeaning. freeman fisher 8601 west knoll drive #7 west hollywood, ca 90069 ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] SLABBING SHOULD BE VIGOROUSLY REJECTED
Come on, Freeman you know you want to slab one of those wonderful 24 sheets you have :-) Rick www.ilovefilms.com - Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 11:09:44 AM Subject: [MOPO] SLABBING SHOULD BE VIGOROUSLY REJECTED Slabbing. Bruce has offered up this subject so I'll bite. Why slabbing for lobby cards? I am to understand for coins, comics and trading cards, there existed a pervasive malaise in accurate condition reveal. With internet sales exploding, for comics, with multiple pages, a lot of sins were frequently overlooked and it was impacting the industry. So if I recall correctly, Heritage hosted a major comic auction and virtually all the items were slabbed and results were impressive Slabbing established its foothold. Now the company(ies) (are their still two?) who grade and slab are a business.and expansion of their supposed impartial grading to other paper formats is critical for their long-term foothold into the future. So just because they claim their is a problem are we as sellers just going to drop to our knees and rejoice that the Calvary is here to purge the cancer of egregious inaccuracies in the sales of lobby cards? For comics, fine, there existed a serious problem in accurate condition and grading within their sales universe and most agree it saved the biz. But I do not see anywhere that kind of skullduggery or mis-representation with the majority of auction houses or sellers present regarding movie material. So why jack up one's cost of goods with the additional fees for grading and slabbing, never mind additional insured postage. So if any auction house tries to instigateI cannot shout loud enough to not bid.tell your clients to not bid as well. If the prices don't deliver watch how fast they drop that idea. Our business is not broke, occasionally a tweek here or there is necessary but otherwise I think most people are happy with how sales are conducted. If they are not they will go to another that delivers to their expectations. Accepting the concept of slabbing is akin to saying were too indifferent and stupid to police our industry ...we need third party intervention...take our hard earned monies we're lobby card lemmings without conscience or backbone. And besides, I like how I frame my lobby cards and window cards and that doesn't include a a half inch thick rectangular slab with bar scans stuck in plain view more appropriate for display on retail racks for expensive Monster Cables not treasured lobby cards. SLABBING= Irrelevant, unnecessary, an imposition, costly and demeaning. freeman fisher 8601 west knoll drive #7 west hollywood, ca 90069 See what's free at AOL.com. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] SLABBING SHOULD BE VIGOROUSLY REJECTED
Freeman, Thank you for explaining the purpose of comic book slabbing. I could never understand why people would encapsulate their comics, thus rendering them unreadable. It defeats the purpose of having the comic book in the first place. Maybe they will start slabbing 78 RPM records next. I don't want to see slabbed lobby cards, and I don't expect it to happen. I consider poster collecting to be sort of a sickness to begin with. Why make it worse by having people obsess over the exact grading of their items? -rk From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 12:09:44 -0400 (EDT) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MOPO] SLABBING SHOULD BE VIGOROUSLY REJECTED Slabbing. Bruce has offered up this subject so I'll bite. Why slabbing for lobby cards? I am to understand for coins, comics and trading cards, there existed a pervasive malaise in accurate condition reveal. With internet sales exploding, for comics, with multiple pages, a lot of sins were frequently overlooked and it was impacting the industry. So if I recall correctly, Heritage hosted a major comic auction and virtually all the items were slabbed and results were impressive Slabbing established its foothold. Now the company(ies) (are their still two?) who grade and slab are a business.and expansion of their supposed impartial grading to other paper formats is critical for their long-term foothold into the future. So just because they claim their is a problem are we as sellers just going to drop to our knees and rejoice that the Calvary is here to purge the cancer of egregious inaccuracies in the sales of lobby cards? For comics, fine, there existed a serious problem in accurate condition and grading within their sales universe and most agree it saved the biz. But I do not see anywhere that kind of skullduggery or mis-representation with the majority of auction houses or sellers present regarding movie material. So why jack up one's cost of goods with the additional fees for grading and slabbing, never mind additional insured postage. So if any auction house tries to instigateI cannot shout loud enough to not bid.tell your clients to not bid as well. If the prices don't deliver watch how fast they drop that idea. Our business is not broke, occasionally a tweek here or there is necessary but otherwise I think most people are happy with how sales are conducted. If they are not they will go to another that delivers to their expectations. Accepting the concept of slabbing is akin to saying were too indifferent and stupid to police our industry ...we need third party intervention...take our hard earned monies we're lobby card lemmings without conscience or backbone. And besides, I like how I frame my lobby cards and window cards and that doesn't include a a half inch thick rectangular slab with bar scans stuck in plain view more appropriate for display on retail racks for expensive Monster Cables not treasured lobby cards. SLABBING= Irrelevant, unnecessary, an imposition, costly and demeaning. freeman fisher 8601 west knoll drive #7 west hollywood, ca 90069 See what's free at AOL.com http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503 . Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] SLABBING SHOULD BE VIGOROUSLY REJECTED
I was surprised to see the slabbing of personal signed check's of famous people. I collect some of these and I don't know how long that has been going on. Mine are all unslabbed. --Tom Pennock ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] SLABBING SHOULD BE VIGOROUSLY REJECTED
I agree completely with Freeman. Slabbing ruined sports card collecting as far as I'm concerned. What originated as a response to buyer anxiety about the true condition of mail- and internet-ordered items became a wave of speculation and price inflation powered by a symbiotic relationship between Greed and Fear. And the slabbing companies were the biggest winners. They started springing up like weeds, and nobody seemed to question their authority, experience, or exactly who was doing all of this expert unbiased grading. (Some reports: at least in the cards racket it's a bunch of indifferent minimum wage-earning 20 year olds with magnifying glasses, and quotas to fill) Half those companies lost all credibility before long when people started realizing that their qualifications included not much more than knowing where to buy stacks of lucite cases. Slabbing of lobbies doesn't make any sense anyway, except to people who might stand to profit from it. If a baseball card has a tiny ding on one corner, or a comic has some light corner creasing and writing on the back cover, the value can drop by 25-50%. In the case of a lobby card that flaw has almost no bearing on the value. I've bought a few slabbed stills--and I have no confidence that they are necessarily authentic, or that the people grading them know anything about stills. Slabbing is great for lazy sellers, ignorant sellers, and greedy sellers, and for baiting mint only speculators into feeding frenzy, but I would welcome it like I would welcome the plague. --Tom On Apr 15, 2007, at 9:09 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Slabbing. Bruce has offered up this subject so I'll bite. Why slabbing for lobby cards? I am to understand for coins, comics and trading cards, there existed a pervasive malaise in accurate condition reveal. With internet sales exploding, for comics, with multiple pages, a lot of sins were frequently overlooked and it was impacting the industry. So if I recall correctly, Heritage hosted a major comic auction and virtually all the items were slabbed and results were impressive Slabbing established its foothold. Now the company(ies) (are their still two?) who grade and slab are a business.and expansion of their supposed impartial grading to other paper formats is critical for their long-term foothold into the future. So just because they claim their is a problem are we as sellers just going to drop to our knees and rejoice that the Calvary is here to purge the cancer of egregious inaccuracies in the sales of lobby cards? For comics, fine, there existed a serious problem in accurate condition and grading within their sales universe and most agree it saved the biz. But I do not see anywhere that kind of skullduggery or mis-representation with the majority of auction houses or sellers present regarding movie material. So why jack up one's cost of goods with the additional fees for grading and slabbing, never mind additional insured postage. So if any auction house tries to instigateI cannot shout loud enough to not bid.tell your clients to not bid as well. If the prices don't deliver watch how fast they drop that idea. Our business is not broke, occasionally a tweek here or there is necessary but otherwise I think most people are happy with how sales are conducted. If they are not they will go to another that delivers to their expectations. Accepting the concept of slabbing is akin to saying were too indifferent and stupid to police our industry ...we need third party intervention...take our hard earned monies we're lobby card lemmings without conscience or backbone. And besides, I like how I frame my lobby cards and window cards and that doesn't include a a half inch thick rectangular slab with bar scans stuck in plain view more appropriate for display on retail racks for expensive Monster Cables not treasured lobby cards. SLABBING= Irrelevant, unnecessary, an imposition, costly and demeaning. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] SLABBING SHOULD BE VIGOROUSLY REJECTED
Stills before Lobby cards. Dario. Tom Johnson wrote: I agree completely with Freeman. Slabbing ruined sports card collecting as far as I'm concerned. What originated as a response to buyer anxiety about the true condition of mail- and internet-ordered items became a wave of speculation and price inflation powered by a symbiotic relationship between Greed and Fear. And the slabbing companies were the biggest winners. They started springing up like weeds, and nobody seemed to question their authority, experience, or exactly who was doing all of this expert unbiased grading. (Some reports: at least in the cards racket it's a bunch of indifferent minimum wage-earning 20 year olds with magnifying glasses, and quotas to fill) Half those companies lost all credibility before long when people started realizing that their qualifications included not much more than knowing where to buy stacks of lucite cases. Slabbing of lobbies doesn't make any sense anyway, except to people who might stand to profit from it. If a baseball card has a tiny ding on one corner, or a comic has some light corner creasing and writing on the back cover, the value can drop by 25-50%. In the case of a lobby card that flaw has almost no bearing on the value. I've bought a few slabbed stills--and I have no confidence that they are necessarily authentic, or that the people grading them know anything about stills. Slabbing is great for lazy sellers, ignorant sellers, and greedy sellers, and for baiting mint only speculators into feeding frenzy, but I would welcome it like I would welcome the plague. --Tom On Apr 15, 2007, at 9:09 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Slabbing. Bruce has offered up this subject so I'll bite. Why slabbing for lobby cards? I am to understand for coins, comics and trading cards, there existed a pervasive malaise in accurate condition reveal. With internet sales exploding, for comics, with multiple pages, a lot of sins were frequently overlooked and it was impacting the industry. So if I recall correctly, Heritage hosted a major comic auction and virtually all the items were slabbed and results were impressive Slabbing established its foothold. Now the company(ies) (are their still two?) who grade and slab are a business.and expansion of their supposed impartial grading to other paper formats is critical for their long-term foothold into the future. So just because they claim their is a problem are we as sellers just going to drop to our knees and rejoice that the Calvary is here to purge the cancer of egregious inaccuracies in the sales of lobby cards? For comics, fine, there existed a serious problem in accurate condition and grading within their sales universe and most agree it saved the biz. But I do not see anywhere that kind of skullduggery or mis-representation with the majority of auction houses or sellers present regarding movie material. So why jack up one's cost of goods with the additional fees for grading and slabbing, never mind additional insured postage. So if any auction house tries to instigateI cannot shout loud enough to not bid.tell your clients to not bid as well. If the prices don't deliver watch how fast they drop that idea. Our business is not broke, occasionally a tweek here or there is necessary but otherwise I think most people are happy with how sales are conducted. If they are not they will go to another that delivers to their expectations. Accepting the concept of slabbing is akin to saying were too indifferent and stupid to police our industry ...we need third party intervention...take our hard earned monies we're lobby card lemmings without conscience or backbone. And besides, I like how I frame my lobby cards and window cards and that doesn't include a a half inch thick rectangular slab with bar scans stuck in plain view more appropriate for display on retail racks for expensive Monster Cables not treasured lobby cards. SLABBING= Irrelevant, unnecessary, an imposition, costly and demeaning. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
