Re: [Mpls] Pinched in the Zipper on Hennepin
yYour logic is impecable. Very good explanation. But this is Minnesota. I think that self-rightousness is scored on the drivers test as a requirement though. David Wilson Loring Park On Sat, 4 Dec 2004, Dan Prozinski wrote: The logic of the zipper merge: - when all available lanes are used, the traffic does not back up as far to the rear - travel is safer because there is not the great speed variation between lanes - the whole process is ultimately less confusing - there is no driver frustration with late lane mergers (cheaters) - at the final stage each driver takes turns in the final merging, creating the zipper merge This is about cooperation among drivers and I think people will catch on when they see it in action. In the end it is better for everyone. As this relates to the example at Hennepin Avenue, the offended driver should join in. It's been used like this for years and more cars are allowed through the intersection with each light cycle... win/win. Finally, if you see a confused driver, don't be a crank, let them in. So many people get uptight when they feel their rules have been crossed that they don't see a better way is right in front of them. Dan Prozinski Cedar-Riverside __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I live in the area, and I am definitely not fine with this. The far right lane seem to implicitly be for traffic turning onto Franklin only. There are no painted lane markings to indicate that this lane continues forward on Hennepin. I am most chagrined with I drive up Hennepin and stay in the right through lane to get onto 94 and there are people coming through the Franklin intersection to the right of me. When people don't use their signals (and people don't), it is impossible to tell what they are going to do, either drive straight or turn right. __ The original Zipper Merge post by Rick Mons: Use the zipper merge when traffic comes down from two (or three) lanes to one (or two) lanes. What that means is that drivers use all the lanes until just before the lanes shrink ... and then take turns at that merging point. That's different than the Minnesota Way which is for some drivers to enter (or stay in) the surviving lane way before the merging point and thus inciting Road Rage as other drivers drive in the less-used lane to the merging point. __ REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Pinched in the Zipper on Hennepin
As this relates to the example at Hennepin Avenue, the offended driver should join in. It's been used like this for years and more cars are allowed through the intersection with each light cycle... win/win. It may be win/win, but I am looking for some kind of official statement on whether this is legal, not whether it is efficient. I once got into an accident because somebody tried to pass me on a residential street. Hey, there was no oncoming traffic, and apparently I was going too slow for the driver behind me, so passing me on the left used the roadway most efficiently to move the most traffic. Of course, being illegal as far as I can tell, people really don't expect this to happen, and accidents result. I'm not right at the corner of Franklin and Hennepin, so I can't see it exactly, but I am pretty sure there are a few parking meters before the intersection with Franklin, as well as a bus stop. There is no indication that the unmarked lane closest to the curb is meant to be a through lane to the 94 entrance ramp. Just because everybody uses it as such doesn't make it legal, and it can throw people who are unfamiliar to the area for a loop if that is how people use it. Not to mention all the times I have been in the real right lane, getting ready to move over to the entrance ramp, when somebody zooms up on my right from the intersection trying to cut me off. I just want to know if this is legal, not whether it is efficient. === Nathan Hunstad CARAG Minneapolis, MN PGP DH/DSS public key -- http://www.angelfire.com/mn/freakpower/nhpubkey.txt Do you Gonzo?! http://www.angelfire.com/mn/freakpower REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Pinched in the Zipper on Hennepin
Dan Prozinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The logic of the zipper merge: - when all available lanes are used, the traffic does not back up as far to the rear /snip/ all true benefits. Another one is the lower likelihood of stutter-start (I think traffic engineers have another more technical term). That's the phenomenon where you see a car entering a lane causing the car behind to stop ... and a chain reaction of stopping cars. It actually takes longer for that chain to resume pace due to slower start-up times and differing intervals between cars. The zipper method permits the chain of vehicles to maintain a self-regulating pace (provided everyone plays nice at the merging point). Rick Mons Tanglewood - Shoreview REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Pinched in the Zipper on Hennepin
A similar example of this is the North bound lane of Hennepin Avenue at Franklin Avenue. You should get in the far right turn lane prior to the Franklin intersection, to line up for the entrance to 94 East and 35W North. The importance of this is most evident at rush hour when the extra lane allows many more cars through the intersection per light cycle. It's not illegal and everyone seems to do fine with this. I live in the area, and I am definitely not fine with this. The far right lane seem to implicitly be for traffic turning onto Franklin only. There are no painted lane markings to indicate that this lane continues forward on Hennepin. I am most chagrined with I drive up Hennepin and stay in the right through lane to get onto 94 and there are people coming through the Franklin intersection to the right of me. When people don't use their signals (and people don't), it is impossible to tell what they are going to do, either drive straight or turn right. It would be nice to get some kind of official word on this. I don't think it's acceptable to use that part of the road as an ad-hoc through lane, others do. Which is it? === Nathan Hunstad CARAG Minneapolis, MN PGP DH/DSS public key -- http://www.angelfire.com/mn/freakpower/nhpubkey.txt Do you Gonzo?! http://www.angelfire.com/mn/freakpower REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Pinched in the Zipper on Hennepin
The logic of the zipper merge: - when all available lanes are used, the traffic does not back up as far to the rear - travel is safer because there is not the great speed variation between lanes - the whole process is ultimately less confusing - there is no driver frustration with late lane mergers (cheaters) - at the final stage each driver takes turns in the final merging, creating the zipper merge This is about cooperation among drivers and I think people will catch on when they see it in action. In the end it is better for everyone. As this relates to the example at Hennepin Avenue, the offended driver should join in. It's been used like this for years and more cars are allowed through the intersection with each light cycle... win/win. Finally, if you see a confused driver, don't be a crank, let them in. So many people get uptight when they feel their rules have been crossed that they don't see a better way is right in front of them. Dan Prozinski Cedar-Riverside __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I live in the area, and I am definitely not fine with this. The far right lane seem to implicitly be for traffic turning onto Franklin only. There are no painted lane markings to indicate that this lane continues forward on Hennepin. I am most chagrined with I drive up Hennepin and stay in the right through lane to get onto 94 and there are people coming through the Franklin intersection to the right of me. When people don't use their signals (and people don't), it is impossible to tell what they are going to do, either drive straight or turn right. __ The original Zipper Merge post by Rick Mons: Use the zipper merge when traffic comes down from two (or three) lanes to one (or two) lanes. What that means is that drivers use all the lanes until just before the lanes shrink ... and then take turns at that merging point. That's different than the Minnesota Way which is for some drivers to enter (or stay in) the surviving lane way before the merging point and thus inciting Road Rage as other drivers drive in the less-used lane to the merging point. __ REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
