RE: [Mpls] Roosevelt library
The 19 and the 23 buses run past the new library. It would be about a 7 block walk to the light rail line if you decide not to transfer from a bus. I am assuming that bus traffic will increase significantly as soon as light rail begins services. This is a great location for "smart growth" (mixed use development) for our community. It would be a development blunder by the city to build only a library at this location. I am very excited about the idea of a building a mixed use, pedestrian, bicycle, and transit friendly project. Ken Bradley Corcoran Neighborhood Lee Schneider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: I have a comment to make about this.No has mentioned the two main bus lines that go past this site the 19and I think its the 38. The 19 which currently runs from Brookdalethrough Downtown to MOA, but I believe that Metro Transit is going tohave that route end at the 38th St Station. The other line (which Ibelieve is the 38) runs from Uptown and along 38th St and ends up inHighland Park.I also believe that their is also plans by Metro Transit to restructuremost of south Minneapolis.Lee J Schneiderformerly Standish/Erricson (right off the 19 and 22 lines)now Sheboygan, WI--- John Rocker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> The (sad) fact is most people will hop in the car before walkingmore> than 1/4 mile, so we need to plan our city accordingly if we wantto> reduce car traffic and parking lots. I wasn't involved in planning> for the Roosevelt library and I'm sure there were manyconsiderations> in choosing a site; I'm just surprised the city isn't using this> project as a way to kick-start smart development at a railstation.> > John Rocker> Calhoun__Do you Yahoo!?New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!http://sbc.yahoo.com___Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-DemocracyPost messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more:http://e-democracy.org/mplsDo you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
RE: [Mpls] Roosevelt library
>From Metro Transit Sector 5 Project Manager regarding current thinking on buses serving Roosevelt Library at 28th Ave S & 40th St. We propose to keep Route 19 intact on 28th Ave between 58th St. and 38th St., and on its current route to Golden Valley and Robbinsdale via Cedar Ave, Downtown Mpls, Olson Hwy, Penn Ave., Golden Valley Rd. It will make a short jog to connect with Rt. 55 Hiawatha Ligh Rail via E. 38th St. and the E. 38th St. Station. We would like to improve the frequency of service in the early mornings and evenings and on weekends so that there are good connections with the trains any time. This route provides direct service by the Roosevelt Library. We propose to improve the frequency of Rt. 23 38th Street Cross-town which connects Highland Village Shopping Ctr and Uptown via E. 38th St. Station. This is a priority. We also would like to run this route later into the evening and longer hours on weekends, so that it will always connect well with the light rail line. The ideal frequency would be rush hour service every 15 minutes, midday every 20 minutes and night frequency every 30 minutes.. Today the route runse every 30 minutes or less often. I hope that this is a useful update for you. Watch for announcements about our public meetings on Sector 5 late this year. >>> Lee Schneider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 09/28/02 07:22AM >>> I have a comment to make about this. No has mentioned the two main bus lines that go past this site the 19 and I think its the 38. The 19 which currently runs from Brookdale through Downtown to MOA, but I believe that Metro Transit is going to have that route end at the 38th St Station. The other line (which I believe is the 38) runs from Uptown and along 38th St and ends up in Highland Park. I also believe that their is also plans by Metro Transit to restructure most of south Minneapolis. Lee J Schneider formerly Standish/Erricson (right off the 19 and 22 lines) now Sheboygan, WI --- John Rocker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The (sad) fact is most people will hop in the car before walking more > than 1/4 mile, so we need to plan our city accordingly if we want to > reduce car traffic and parking lots. I wasn't involved in planning > for the Roosevelt library and I'm sure there were many considerations > in choosing a site; I'm just surprised the city isn't using this > project as a way to kick-start smart development at a rail station. > > John Rocker > Calhoun __ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Roosevelt library
I have a comment to make about this. No has mentioned the two main bus lines that go past this site the 19 and I think its the 38. The 19 which currently runs from Brookdale through Downtown to MOA, but I believe that Metro Transit is going to have that route end at the 38th St Station. The other line (which I believe is the 38) runs from Uptown and along 38th St and ends up in Highland Park. I also believe that their is also plans by Metro Transit to restructure most of south Minneapolis. Lee J Schneider formerly Standish/Erricson (right off the 19 and 22 lines) now Sheboygan, WI --- John Rocker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The (sad) fact is most people will hop in the car before walking more > than 1/4 mile, so we need to plan our city accordingly if we want to > reduce car traffic and parking lots. I wasn't involved in planning > for the Roosevelt library and I'm sure there were many considerations > in choosing a site; I'm just surprised the city isn't using this > project as a way to kick-start smart development at a rail station. > > John Rocker > Calhoun __ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Roosevelt Library and Mixed Use
Hello All: I live several blocks from the proposed Roosevelt Library project and support a mixed use with Library, coffee shop or resturaunt, day care, and housing built above. I would like the project to be developed with smaller locally based owner operated business. I am excited about this project and would like to see more mixed development projects built in the city. The city has the sewers, roads, and infrastucter built. We gain a tax base, and services for our community. To use the cliche "Its NO Brainer!" Ken Bradley Corcoran Neighborhood Jim Berg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: I'm surprised at Carol Becker's comments aboutRoosevelt Library and mixed use. NO ONE has suggesteda laudromat or McDonalds be built with the library.The suggestion, which the Library Board is pursuing,is to build much-needed housing and PERHAPS one or tworetail spots for a cafe, coffee shop, or even childcare. We should all know better than to speculate on what isin a project without knowing the details. A simplelook at the library system's web site would have givenCarol the details on the proposal. I'm on theRoosevelt Advisory Committee and have been discussingthe idea of mixed use since it was first publiclybrought up in March.But more importantly, I think Libraries NEED to learnfrom Barnes & Noble and the other successful bookstore chains to make sure they don't lose theirpatrons to the commercial centers. Obviously, the mixof books and cafes works for them. It can also work toincrease the use of our libraries, where people don'thave to buy anything in order to participate in thedemocracy Carol wants to happen there.Jim BergCorcoran NeighborhoodCarol Becker said, "I was also thinking about theRoosevelt Library proposal and how there is a proposalto make it part of a mixed use development. ... TheLibrary isn't simply a Barnes and Noble, another storeto meet your daily needs, a warehouse of books. ALibrary is a place where democracy happens. A Libraryis a place where everyone is equal, everyone iswelcome, a place that provides knowledge and supportfor everyone. It is a tie from our past to ourfuture, a place of permanence and strength in ourcommunity. It reflects our values. It is a place thatdefines who we are and who we will be."__Do you Yahoo!?New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!http://sbc.yahoo.com___Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-DemocracyPost messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more:http://e-democracy.org/mplsDo you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
[Mpls] Roosevelt Library and Mixed Use: A controversial view
Jim Berg wrote: "I think Libraries NEED to learn from Barnes & Noble and the other successful book store chains to make sure they don't lose their patrons to the commercial centers." Comment from Vicky: Actually, Barnes & Noble (NYSE: BKS) is losing ground. Its stock has dropped from $38.80 to $22 (low of $18.) Two days ago, Prudential Securities dropped it from the "Select List." Over the same 52 week period, Amazon.com (Nasdaq: AMZN) has increased from $5.52 to $17 (high of $20.) Moody's just upgraded its senior debt. Forward looking people have observed that most people who read, also use the internet. Research projects can be done more quickly and efficiently on-line. In fact, more data is available on the Web than any library could possibly accumulate and maintain. By the way, the same trend is obvious for higher education. The University of Phoenix, Inc. delivers a myriad of degree programs over the internet. It's stock (Nasdaq: APOL) is trading at all time highs. Politicians like to build things that they can point to - tangible legacies. But, they're always too late - they get started as the trend fades away. The overbuilt condition of downtown Minneapolis proves this point (not to mention $800 million worth of public debt.) My word of caution is: If you are building something for the next 20 or 30 years, try to judge the corresponding need over that time frame. You may find that we don't really need it after all. Money is scarce, we can't afford to waste any. Vicky Heller Cedar-Riverside (Work) North Oaks (Home) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Roosevelt Library and Mixed Use
I'm surprised at Carol Becker's comments about Roosevelt Library and mixed use. NO ONE has suggested a laudromat or McDonalds be built with the library. The suggestion, which the Library Board is pursuing, is to build much-needed housing and PERHAPS one or two retail spots for a cafe, coffee shop, or even child care. We should all know better than to speculate on what is in a project without knowing the details. A simple look at the library system's web site would have given Carol the details on the proposal. I'm on the Roosevelt Advisory Committee and have been discussing the idea of mixed use since it was first publicly brought up in March. But more importantly, I think Libraries NEED to learn from Barnes & Noble and the other successful book store chains to make sure they don't lose their patrons to the commercial centers. Obviously, the mix of books and cafes works for them. It can also work to increase the use of our libraries, where people don't have to buy anything in order to participate in the democracy Carol wants to happen there. Jim Berg Corcoran Neighborhood Carol Becker said, "I was also thinking about the Roosevelt Library proposal and how there is a proposal to make it part of a mixed use development. ... The Library isn't simply a Barnes and Noble, another store to meet your daily needs, a warehouse of books. A Library is a place where democracy happens. A Library is a place where everyone is equal, everyone is welcome, a place that provides knowledge and support for everyone. It is a tie from our past to our future, a place of permanence and strength in our community. It reflects our values. It is a place that defines who we are and who we will be." __ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Roosevelt Library and Mixed Use
"Mark Snyder" wrote: > Who says the development has to include something like a McD's or a > Laundromat? Why couldn't there be something cool like a café or coffee shop > that only sells fair trade coffee to raise awareness of how most commercial > coffee producers exploit the land and the farmers? Or something like the > Seven Bridges World Market (http://www.sevenbridgesworldmarket.com/) to > promote exposure to other cultures? I believe that a coffee shop is the one commercial activity that adds to the experience of going to the library (well I would also probably agree that a small book store where you could purchase books too). But both of those are about enhancing the library experience. They are about doing things with books. I think that beyond that, you have to think that this building is going to be with us for fifty or 100 years and that you can't guarentee that there will be some cool hip store there forever. You have to expect that ultimately, economics are going to win out and the things that are the most economically viable, the stores that end up in strip malls and that homoginize us all will be the things that survive long term and will end up also being economically viable in this location. > > > > > > A library in a mixed use development will never be a landmark, will never > > provide identity, and ultimately cheapens what a library should be for our > > community. I would hope the Library Board and the City would consider > > building a landmark rather than a retail outlet for the Roosevelt Library and > > I would hope the community accepts nothing less. > > I would hope the community insists on high standards for the Roosevelt > library design and any mixed use development - however, I would also hope > the community would be open-minded enough to actually consider and evaluate > design proposals before rejecting them outright. > > Isn't it possible that creative ideas for mixed use development might draw > people to the library who might not visit otherwise? Wouldn't that be a > good thing? I am a big advocate of mixed use. I think mixing residential and commercial is a really good thing and creates a better city. But I think that there are a few situations where I think it is not appropriate though, and this is one of them. Think about it this way. Think of a church. Think of your favorite church. I will lay odds that that that church space isn't stuck in with housing and retail. Instead, that church building stands alone, as an icon in your mind, a separate and sacred space. There may be a school attached, a gym, a day care in the basement, but that sacred space stand separate and distinct from everything else. In addition, look in your mind's eye about how it helps define the space around it - about how it says "I am a part of this neighborhood, this community" and how the community builds it to reflect itself. Try another example. Take City Hall. It is built in a Richardson Romanesque style. (that means it looks like a giant brownstone) It was built that way to say to this community (back in the 1890's) that Minneapolis was a real city, a great city, and a permanent city, one that had grown from nothing to an international concern. Now try and take that image and throw a Micky-D's in there, the laundry mat, someone's barking dog. It simply doesn't work. To use some geeky words, it profanes our community. Now you could argue that McDonald's or the Mall of America are icons of the community. You could argue that the retail space with the hidden parking ramp over on Grand Avene (great mixed use), with the Gap are icons of the community. You could argue that all of the commercial space along Lake Street with its apartments above it are icons of the community. But I think that Minneapolis residents deserve better. Take Hosmer, for example. An icon for the community. St Anthony Park Library. An icon for the community. Even the Roseville Library is an icon for the community. Franklin. The same. Shoving a library into a mixed use commercial/housing development? Simply a warehouse for books. Carol Becker Longfellow ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Roosevelt Library and Mixed Use
On 9/26/02 8:38 PM, "Becker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I was also thinking about the Roosevelt Library proposal and how there is a > proposal to make it part of a mixed use development. How the Library would > sit there, next to the laundry mat and maybe a McDonald's and someone's > groceries waiting to go up to their apartment. And how this really cheapened > the meaning of what a library is. The Library isn't simply a Barnes and > Noble, another store to meet your daily needs, a warehouse of books. A > Library is a place where democracy happens. A Library is a place where > everyone is equal, everyone is welcome, a place that provides knowledge and > support for everyone. It is a tie from our past to our future, a place of > permanence and strength in our community. It reflects our values. It is a > place that defines who we are and who we will be. I agree that a library is something noble and should be respected. I disagree that having a library as part of a mixed used development automatically demands that it would be cheapened. Who says the development has to include something like a McD's or a Laundromat? Why couldn't there be something cool like a café or coffee shop that only sells fair trade coffee to raise awareness of how most commercial coffee producers exploit the land and the farmers? Or something like the Seven Bridges World Market (http://www.sevenbridgesworldmarket.com/) to promote exposure to other cultures? > > > A library in a mixed use development will never be a landmark, will never > provide identity, and ultimately cheapens what a library should be for our > community. I would hope the Library Board and the City would consider > building a landmark rather than a retail outlet for the Roosevelt Library and > I would hope the community accepts nothing less. I would hope the community insists on high standards for the Roosevelt library design and any mixed use development - however, I would also hope the community would be open-minded enough to actually consider and evaluate design proposals before rejecting them outright. Isn't it possible that creative ideas for mixed use development might draw people to the library who might not visit otherwise? Wouldn't that be a good thing? Mark Snyder Windom Park (59A) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Roosevelt Library and Mixed Use
I was sitting here this evening watching "Ken Burns: The Civil War" and they had a picture of the Capital as it was being constructed. On top the dome of the building is a statue of a woman. The statue is called "Statue of Freedom" and she was placed there in 1863 during the height of the Civil War. When she was placed on the top of the capital building, a salute was fired from the forts surrounding the Capital, which had been almost overrun by Confederate troops just a year or so earlier. The architect meant her to symbolize "Freedom Triumphant in War and Peace" and at a time when the nation was in the midst of a war more bloody and tragic than anyone could imagine, she was placed there, on top of the Capital as a symbol for what the country was striving for. I was also thinking about the Roosevelt Library proposal and how there is a proposal to make it part of a mixed use development. How the Library would sit there, next to the laundry mat and maybe a McDonald's and someone's groceries waiting to go up to their apartment. And how this really cheapened the meaning of what a library is. The Library isn't simply a Barnes and Noble, another store to meet your daily needs, a warehouse of books. A Library is a place where democracy happens. A Library is a place where everyone is equal, everyone is welcome, a place that provides knowledge and support for everyone. It is a tie from our past to our future, a place of permanence and strength in our community. It reflects our values. It is a place that defines who we are and who we will be. I would offer the following quote: "We have all but entirely broken away from the Renaissance concept of an architecture standing for permanence and political power, an architecture of stone celebrating an unchangeable political and religious order. The notion of building a symbol for posterity - much less a symbol for the ages - is not longer taken seriously. In hard times (which eventually come to every community no matter what its size or wealth) what makes survival possible and desirable is not its archeological identity but its ability to continue, and it continues because some structures, some institutions and facilities provide continuity. These are the landmarks, [and they] stand for continuity, community identity, for links with the past and the future. In the contemporary American community, these roles are what counteract our mobility and fragmentation and forgetfulness of its history. JB Jackson"Stone and its Substitutes" 1994 A library in a mixed use development will never be a landmark, will never provide identity, and ultimately cheapens what a library should be for our community. I would hope the Library Board and the City would consider building a landmark rather than a retail outlet for the Roosevelt Library and I would hope the community accepts nothing less. Carol Becker Longfellow For more information on the "Statue of Freedom": http://www.aoc.gov/cc/art/freedom.htm
RE: [Mpls] Roosevelt library
I know we're all hearty Minnesotans, happy to walk 3 miles around the frozen lake in subzero temperatures just to see the sun, but 1/4 mile is still considered normal "walking distance" when considering how far a person will walk for goods or services. The (sad) fact is most people will hop in the car before walking more than 1/4 mile, so we need to plan our city accordingly if we want to reduce car traffic and parking lots. I wasn't involved in planning for the Roosevelt library and I'm sure there were many considerations in choosing a site; I'm just surprised the city isn't using this project as a way to kick-start smart development at a rail station. For those that would like someone else's opinion: "A distance of 0.40 km (0.25 mi) is usually considered the maximum people are willing to walk to use public transportation." (The Connection Between Public Transit and Employment, Journal of the American Planning Association, 1999.) "According to the Nationwide Personal Transportation Survey (NTPS), the majority of pedestrian trips are 0.25 miles or less... NPTS data also shows that land use patterns and population density have a big impact on trip distance. Higher density communities with mixed land use patterns will have higher levels of walking because destinations are more likely to be located within walking distance of homes and businesses." (Walkinginfo.org) "A comfortable walking distance, is widely accepted as one-quarter mile network distance." (Regulating Urban Form at the Metropolitan Scale: A Preliminary Assessment of Portland's 2040 Plan, University of Illinois, May 2002 -- from the National Center for Smart Growth.) John Rocker Calhoun ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Roosevelt library
I strongly agree with the points John Rocker makes in favor of mixed-use development and increasing density along transit routes, but six blocks is too far to walk from a library to an LRT stop? No wonder obesity is becoming an epidemic in the United States. I remember back in the good ol' days when I walked from my fraternity in Dinkytown (we're one of the few not on frat row along University Ave) to East Bank campus. It was about 8-12 blocks depending on where your class was. Granted, we were mostly able-bodied young folks, but we also lugged around those nice 20-pound backpacks on our shoulders - oh, did I mention it was uphill - both ways? :-) But seriously, I find it amusing to think that a six block walk would be unmanageable for most people when up here in Windom Park, we've got folks talking about walking paths for seniors. Of the two path options I've seen so far, one runs 1.5 miles and the other runs 1.6 miles. Mark Snyder Windom Park (59A) [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 9/25/02 1:44 PM, "John Rocker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Steve Brandt has a good article in today¹s paper about whether or not the new > Roosevelt library should be part of a mixed-use development. > > http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/3324554.html > > The city needs to increase its density along transit routes, but what both > sides of the argument appear to be missing is that the site is almost one-half > mile from the light rail stop at 38th and Hiawatha -- and that is twice as far > as what is considered standard ³walking distance² from the station. To take > advantage of light-rail, the library board and the MCDA should be looking for > a mixed-use site as close as possible to 38th & Hiawatha, preferably within > view of the station. One of the justifications for the cost of light-rail is > that it spurs mixed-used, transit-oriented development. A mixed-use library > project is ideal within walking distance of the station, but the proposed site > is too far away to take advantage of that. > > > > John Rocker > > Calhoun > > > ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Roosevelt library
Steve Brandt has a good article in today’s paper about whether or not the new Roosevelt library should be part of a mixed-use development. http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/3324554.html The city needs to increase its density along transit routes, but what both sides of the argument appear to be missing is that the site is almost one-half mile from the light rail stop at 38th and Hiawatha -- and that is twice as far as what is considered standard “walking distance” from the station. To take advantage of light-rail, the library board and the MCDA should be looking for a mixed-use site as close as possible to 38th & Hiawatha, preferably within view of the station. One of the justifications for the cost of light-rail is that it spurs mixed-used, transit-oriented development. A mixed-use library project is ideal within walking distance of the station, but the proposed site is too far away to take advantage of that. John Rocker Calhoun
