Re: Re [Mpls] Crime and housing affordability: Denial?
Thank you, Fred. Fredric Markus wrote: >Note: illegal drug use >impacts all three of these venues and we are nowhere immune from crimes >against persons and property. > WM: Farmers I know in Southwest Minnesota are locking their barns so that thieves don't have such easy access to their horses -- tractors, combines, stuff like that. They're the ones who have to contend with the meth labs for the most part. >When Dean got roughed up by some vicious kids in the middle of the >election campaign, it was because Dean was willing to put himself in >harm's way - maybe not the wisest course of action in retrospect, but >emblematic of a willingness to take responsibility for the peace of his >immediate neighborhood even at some personal risk. > And Dean's hardly the only one. Many, many Phillips, Sevens Square, Central, Whittier, Powderhorn Park, Lyndale and other folks have had to do similar things on the Southside. The difference was they weren't trying to get elected at the same time. One family I know, who lived in the 3000 block of Portland, were beaten by drug dealers. The husband was beaten while his wife watched, then held down to watch his wife beaten. They didn't leave. They're still here and that family is a credit to any neighborhood to have the good fortune to have them. They have moved to a bigger house down a block. I've been happy with the billboard campaign, "you're the one who can keep the peace" which leaves no one free of responsibility to help in some way. >It is annoying to read on this list "for some reason the only >politicians that get elected are the ones who promise to do something >about drugs and prostitution under the general "tough on crime" rubric. > >That's not how Dean operates - and you don't have to take my word for >it, we've been reading about his activities for some time now. Nor is >that the impression I have of Mayor Rybak, or Council Members Niziolek, >Lilligren, Schiff, Zerby, Johnson Lee, or Ostrow. If I don't add the >rest of the city council to this list, it's only that I haven't had as >much contact with them. I can certainly add my state legislators >Berglin, Walker and Clark to the list of people I know personally and >trust implicitly on these weighty matters and while I'm at it, I have a >seriously warm spot in my heart for County Commissioner Dorfman. > WM: Not knowing all those players well, I'll add Sharon Sayles Belton as an effective crime fighter, Peter McLaughlin's work, Brian Herron's. If we're going to give Tony Scallon kudos for the NRP, I'd add him as an excellent crime fighter because the NRP is allowing neighborhoods to clean up after 30 years of redlining by banks and insurance companies and neglect by city, county, state. It's also annoying to see people who have been you're OK neighbors suddenly turned into sleazoids by some because you elected them to be council members, commissioners, mayors, whatevers. Winning the election doesn't ogrify one's neighbors. >After 30-odd years, Minneapolis is also my small town and I can't >stereotype these "politicians" that I know personally and trust >implicitly any more than I could knowingly denigrate the negotiating >skills of that savvy lone constable in a town of 316 souls in rural >Wisconsin. > WM: What's every bit as important as trusting implicitly is having access to. I don't have to have lunch every month with them, but knowing I can send an e-mail, letter, phone call about a perspective on a issue and have it heard sure means a lot. >Housing's still pricey and bad things still happen but I'm here because >I feel a part of this place and I like working on solutions with lots of >other well-meaning people. I admire values that obtain in rural AND >urban settings and there's a lot of that going around. > WM: There's still an odd notion that housing is cheap in rural areas. That's not quite true. Rural housing appears cheap if you have a city job/wage (or well paying, tolerable) job. But if you're making bupkis in a rural area, a ten thousand dollar house is just as far off the charts as an $80,000 one would be for me here--and we don't seem to have any such thing in the city anymore. Small towns are also very insular and there are not as many opportunities to break the insularity. For myself, I grew up in a city about the size of Minneapolis and I find that to be my ecological niche. This one has its faults, but every other one does too. I wouldn't want to live in my hometown which is bone deep conservative, (Sen. Bob Taft [grandson of Wm. H. Taft] territory) and much more given to bunker mentality about people who are somehow "different" (emigrant status, color, religion, etc.). My attempts to contend with suburbs, small towns, rural areas and megacities like New York left me feeling like a fish on a bicycle. >WizardMarks, Central, Ward 8 >___ > >Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democrac
Re: Re [Mpls] Crime and housing affordability: Denial?
Fred is right about living in a small town. I happen to also live in a small town, its called Ventura Village. I moved to a city out in the "BURPS" once, but people did not like knowing their neighbors and after a while my kids and wife were spending more time back in the "small town" than at our 'burb' house. So I upped and moved em back. Back to all our children's foster grandparents and our close friends who absolutely surround us in our "small town". Heck, I get to know more people in a week in my small town than I got to know in a year out there. Now I got to admit it was quite, but so is the inside of a coffin. Our small town just happens to be close to a bunch of other small towns. In fact really close. So close you can even walk. I delighted in proving to a "Hump" graduate planner that my front door is 1.1 miles from the front door of Humphrey's front door and 1.3 miles from Dayton's Downtown 8th Street door. So like any small town, I can walk downtown if I want. While I usually drive I like the fact that if I want to I can have just about any kind of food you can imagine in just a short stroll. I actually should walk that mile to 26th and Nicolett more often, I might still have my girlish figure. (The one I haven't had in so long my wife's old memory can't seem to dig it out of the file. I think she remembers marrying this short chubby guy instead of the tall slim one in the pictures) Yes I like my small town, and will be damned if a bunch of drug dealing hoodlums will move me. (well occasionally they move me to violence at criminals and swearing about Judges who need a glass insert for their belly buttons, if you get my drift). So the judges have to go back to being bad lawyers and the criminals have got to go some where else, cause I aint going no where but to bed. Speaking of which, I am missing my beauty sleep, and most people already say I must stay up too many long nights. Course like the old horse, I been rode hard and put up wet on just too many cold nights. You can say things like that when you are from a small town. Jim Graham, just me, Ma, and the crickets here in small town Ventura Village ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re [Mpls] Crime and housing affordability: Denial?
I can empathize with a longing for rural simplicity - I spent a good deal of time in northwestern Wisconsin dairy country and really liked the rural flavor of Nicollet Island. I've also found a happy home in Charles Horn Terrace, a small town in effect. Note: illegal drug use impacts all three of these venues and we are nowhere immune from crimes against persons and property. I can't say I'm unhappy with my years in Whittier, although getting into housing that insulates me from market pressure is a welcome relief given the inexorable realities of the aging process. I still have many friends in Whittier and in Phillips, too, and elsewhere in South Minneapolis for that matter. I can easily compare Council Member Dean Zimmermann to a town constable I knew of in Clayton, Wisconsin, who had to deal with a drunken lout who was shooting buckshot through his farmhouse kitchen ceiling and threatening the wife and child who took refuge with my friends and their children and me on our farm elsewhere in the county. When Dean got roughed up by some vicious kids in the middle of the election campaign, it was because Dean was willing to put himself in harm's way - maybe not the wisest course of action in retrospect, but emblematic of a willingness to take responsibility for the peace of his immediate neighborhood even at some personal risk. That's how we felt in our rural farmhouse when we didn't know whether a crazy guy would show up shooting but we were willing to defend these terrified folks - by force if necessary! - but we trusted in the good judgment of the Clayton constable who in fact talked the drunken guy into surrendering his weapon. The locals sorted things out. End of drama. It is annoying to read on this list "for some reason the only politicians that get elected are the ones who promise to do something about drugs and prostitution under the general "tough on crime" rubric. That's not how Dean operates - and you don't have to take my word for it, we've been reading about his activities for some time now. Nor is that the impression I have of Mayor Rybak, or Council Members Niziolek, Lilligren, Schiff, Zerby, Johnson Lee, or Ostrow. If I don't add the rest of the city council to this list, it's only that I haven't had as much contact with them. I can certainly add my state legislators Berglin, Walker and Clark to the list of people I know personally and trust implicitly on these weighty matters and while I'm at it, I have a seriously warm spot in my heart for County Commissioner Dorfman. After 30-odd years, Minneapolis is also my small town and I can't stereotype these "politicians" that I know personally and trust implicitly any more than I could knowingly denigrate the negotiating skills of that savvy lone constable in a town of 316 souls in rural Wisconsin. Housing's still pricey and bad things still happen but I'm here because I feel a part of this place and I like working on solutions with lots of other well-meaning people. I admire values that obtain in rural AND urban settings and there's a lot of that going around. Fred Markus, Horn Terrace, Ward Ten, in the Lyndale Neighborhood ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crime and housing affordability: Denial?
michael libby wrote: >-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >Hash: SHA1 > >On Monday 14 October 2002 23:56, dyna wrote: > >>Ah, the power of denial- I mutter a few truths about the >>prevalence of crime in parts of Minneapolis and how overpriced >>housing is here, and the backlash begins: >> > >I don't consider a little cheerleading for a City I love (Minneapolis, that >is) to be either "denial" or "backlash" and I think saying that I engaged >in either is unfair. We need to consider Minneapolis against its peer >cities, not against small, rural communities. > WM: Are you gonna wear the whole cheerleading outfit? Skirt, letter sweater, bobby socks, saddle shoes and carry two pompoms? Little street theater would come in welcome about now. >Like I said, lucky for you-- Glenwood is a great city. But retirement and >moving to Glenwood are not options for a significant portion of Mpls' >380,000+ residents. And where would Glenwood put all of us? > >Given what I found, we should probably send some policy makers to places >like Seattle WA, Porland OR, San Diego CA, and El Paso TX. Those places >all average under 10 homicides a year per 100,000 inhabitants. > WM: If their junketing anyway, I think they should also go to some of the worst examples of the same size. Compare and contrast is very instructive. >> >>OK. So we've had red light districts in the past. Where are they now? Red >>light districts are not typically based out of houses in residential >>neighborhoods. That's my point. >> WM:I wouldn't be so quick as to say that. There have been several buildings in my neighborhood which have (and a few still do) operate as houses of prostitution. If I understand what the City Council is working on right now, it's going to move the remaining "neighborhood saunas" to a section of downtown. There are three designated to go on the Southside that I know of: Kim's (a.k.a. The Royale Knight), Utopia East--both on Lake St.; and the Delux on Chicago. >>My point was that the City razed what would have passed as our red light >>district(s)... and look where that crime went: into neighborhoods, yours, >>and a couple on the south side. Wouldn't it have been better if they'd >>left it where it was, centralized in a mostly non-residential area? >> WM: I remember cops in Cincinnati saying they liked it better when the bad guys were ghettoized, but at least recently they aren't being held up as stellar. >>And it's not that I think ready access to drugs and sex is a good thing >>(although I suppose Walgreen's and marriage seem to be civilized >>solutions), I'm saying that no amount of trying is going to make the trade >>in either one go away. We've had a drug war for 30 years now and the U.S. >>has tripled it's prison population in that time. Yet I would have an >>easier time finding dope in this town than a nice place to live that's >> >>actually affordable. >> WM: Actually, the jails are mostly full of minority people without money who were picked up for crack. Quieter, "home office" dealers in the suburbs who sell powder cocaine during toney parties aren't getting the same kind of treatment for the most part. The African American Men Project seems to be looking toward other solutions which, having been tested on a small scale, have given some excellent results. WizardMarks, Central >> >>___ >> >>Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy >>Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls >> ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crime and housing affordability: Denial?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 14 October 2002 23:56, dyna wrote: > Ah, the power of denial- I mutter a few truths about the > prevalence of crime in parts of Minneapolis and how overpriced > housing is here, and the backlash begins: I don't consider a little cheerleading for a City I love (Minneapolis, that is) to be either "denial" or "backlash" and I think saying that I engaged in either is unfair. We need to consider Minneapolis against its peer cities, not against small, rural communities. > Again, I suspect that most of your favorite restaurants are > pricier than my budget will allow. BTW, Glencoe has a Subway and > coffeehouse too. Actually, my favorite restaurant of all time is a place called Camdi in Dinkytown. I can eat a big plate of great Vietnamese food and a drink big pot of jasmine tea there for about $5 or $6. > In greater Minnesota you can grow your own, or buy from the > farmer. I don't believe Minneapolis has had a working farm in some > years... I had so many organically grown vegetables from my garden this year that I couldn't eat them all-- if I do the garden again next year I'm definitely going to have to get into canning. I've seen a real increase in the number of community gardens around town, as well. > >Now, if you can tell me that Glenwood has libraries that even come > > close to touching Minneapolis Central (even the slapped together > > interim location with its lack of stacks)... > > Try that DSL line I mentioned- I can't even get DSL here in the hood. I can't get DSL either, but I can (and did) get a Time-Warner cable modem for about the same price (maybe even less, I don't know). I would be surprised if they don't offer service to where you're at. And the internet quite the same as a library. I love them both, but I wouldn't want to live with just one or the other. Besides, DSL and cable modems cost about $50 a month. I don't spend nearly that much at the library. > > if you can tell me where > >I'll be able to buy a decent variety of cheeses and wines... > > Again, beyond my economic strata- although you can always > make your own with such a variety of raw materials available. You can't afford a few dollars for a hunk of cheese and $10 for a bottle of wine, but you can afford all the raw materials and equipment necessary to make your own in small batches? How do you manage that, Reaganomics? > Like I said, for us soon to be retired jobs are irrelevant. Like I said, lucky for you-- Glenwood is a great city. But retirement and moving to Glenwood are not options for a significant portion of Mpls' 380,000+ residents. And where would Glenwood put all of us? > had several here in Hawthorne. What is Glenwood doing right that > Hawthorne is doing wrong? If you honestly think you can compare a single neighborhood in a big city to a small rural town, then I'm pretty sure it is not I who's in denial. Glenwood has its population spread out over many many more square miles than Hawthorne does. Glenwood is not smack dab in the middle of a million-body metro area. Glenwood is nowhere near as racially diverse and Hawthorne. > How about New York City, with a much larger population. Our > murder rate has competed with theirs in recent years. How about it? I spent some time today and put together an analysis of the murder rate in 45 large U.S. cities, which I have put online at: http://www.ichimunki.com/Murder_in_U_S_Cities.html Minneapolis scored 19th overall, with an average of 16.86 homicides per 100,000 inhabitants. Not good, number one was New Orleans with a ten year average homicide rate of 61.46 homicides per 100,000 residents. But Minneapolis was still better than NYC at 17th with 18.73 homicides per 100,000 residents -- and I would point out that only in the last few years has NYC seen a real drop in their homicide levels. In the early 90s they were in the 20s and 30s. Given what I found, we should probably send some policy makers to places like Seattle WA, Porland OR, San Diego CA, and El Paso TX. Those places all average under 10 homicides a year per 100,000 inhabitants. > I'll delve into the history of Red Light districts from > Storyville to Superior's another day. Suffice to say, we already have > them, as several folks from the Northside and Phillips have reported > on this list. BTW, as you seem to think ready access to drugs and sex > is such a good thing, can we move the Red Light district to your > neighborhood? OK. So we've had red light districts in the past. Where are they now? Red light districts are not typically based out of houses in residential neighborhoods. That's my point. My point was that the City razed what would have passed as our red light district(s)... and look where that crime went: into neighborhoods, yours, and a couple on the south side. Wouldn't it have been better if they'd left it where it was, centralized in a mo
