Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEide for windows 64
Problems exist with FPC 32 and 64 bits ;) From my side I'm using FPC alone, FPC+MSEide and FPC+Lazarus. All the programs are running fine in x32 and x64 bits except MSEide ones. I have found problems using some DLL 32 bits in windows 64 (exactly windows 8.1). The x64 version of the program with x64 DLL are running fine. I prefer 32 bits versions, but mates want 64 bit too and every day there are more 64 bits hosts out there. 2014-04-26 7:41 GMT+02:00 Martin Schreiber mse00...@gmail.com: On Friday 25 April 2014 22:15:41 Julio Jiménez wrote: Hi Martin Are there plans for MSEide windows 64? No. I read that there are still problems with FPC win64 and that it is not recommended by the FPC team. On Linux too, 32 bit FPC is preferable over 64bit. Why do you need it? Martin -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk -- Julio Jiménez Borreguero -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEide for windows 64
Why do you need it? = Me guess for being ready to rus apps with more than 2 GB per processRAM demands. 32bit apps can't address that memory. MSEgui shoud start incorporating 64 bit already today so that to fix most of bugs to the time when 64bit becomes standard-de-facto. -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEide for windows 64
On Saturday 26 April 2014 10:36:20 Ivanko B wrote: Why do you need it? = Me guess for being ready to rus apps with more than 2 GB per processRAM demands. Concrete Example? Martin -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEide for windows 64
On Saturday 26 April 2014 10:42:14 Julio Jiménez wrote: In fact, I know lot of developers using FPC x32 and x64 with no problems at all. I use linux cross compiling to win32 and win64 and all is fine. What about http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Windows_Programming_Tips#FPC_2.6.x.2FLazarus_warning_.28Missing_support_for_SEH.29 ? Martin -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEide for windows 64
Yes I knew it. It's for Lazarus compiled for win64 not for FPC ;) I use cross compiling from linux to win32 and win64 and no problems as suggested in your link. Its fixed in fpc trunk (2.7.x series) but MSEide doesn't support it for the moment. There are also problems with lazarus 32 bits when using libs compiled without * -mstackrealign* IIRC (reported for Ubuntu 14.04 and Lazarus GTK2 i386) this doesn't mean nobody is going to use Lazarus for i386 because it. 2014-04-26 11:22 GMT+02:00 Martin Schreiber mse00...@gmail.com: On Saturday 26 April 2014 10:42:14 Julio Jiménez wrote: In fact, I know lot of developers using FPC x32 and x64 with no problems at all. I use linux cross compiling to win32 and win64 and all is fine. What about http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Windows_Programming_Tips#FPC_2.6.x.2FLazarus_warning_.28Missing_support_for_SEH.29 ? Martin -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk -- Julio Jiménez Borreguero -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEide for windows 64
Probably Win64 is not a priority for you, but every day there are more computers running 64 bits OS and probably you need to keep an eye on it. BTW. I know MSEide doesn't support FPC 2.7.x (future FPC 2.8) and because the MSELang stuff I wonder if you have plans to support it in the future or not. Thanks. 2014-04-26 11:22 GMT+02:00 Martin Schreiber mse00...@gmail.com: On Saturday 26 April 2014 10:42:14 Julio Jiménez wrote: In fact, I know lot of developers using FPC x32 and x64 with no problems at all. I use linux cross compiling to win32 and win64 and all is fine. What about http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Windows_Programming_Tips#FPC_2.6.x.2FLazarus_warning_.28Missing_support_for_SEH.29 ? Martin -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk -- Julio Jiménez Borreguero -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEide for windows 64
Concrete Example? Enterprize level server applications for instance - some of modern them are 64bit only. -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEide for windows 64
http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Windows_Programming_Tips#FPC_2.6.x.2FLazarus_warning_.28Missing_support_for_SEH.29 = Anyway it won't affect us really because of : 1) the issue has been fixed in the FPC development version but it is a major change and it will not be backported to FPC 2.6.x. 2) MSElang won't have the issues. -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEide for windows 64
On Saturday 26 April 2014 11:56:27 Ivanko B wrote: Concrete Example? Enterprize level server applications for instance - some of modern them are 64bit only. Who wants to use MSEide+MSEgui for Enterprize level server applications? I guess the cost for win64 to about 200 hours with all the different DB and other libraries which must be adapted to 64bit and the workarounds for buggy dwarf and gdb 64bit debugging which must be found. They probably are willing to pay for it? Martin -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEide for windows 64
On Saturday 26 April 2014 11:46:55 Julio Jiménez wrote: Probably Win64 is not a priority for you, but every day there are more computers running 64 bits OS and probably you need to keep an eye on it. BTW. I know MSEide doesn't support FPC 2.7.x (future FPC 2.8) and because the MSELang stuff I wonder if you have plans to support it in the future or not. It depends what is ready first, FPC 3.0 or MSElang. ;-) It is not possible for me to support FPC trunk. Lazarus is in another position than me because Lazarus is actively supported by the FPC team, MSEide+MSEgui not. On the contrary. ;-) Sometimes I even read comments form FPC team members where they try to convince people that it is not worth the effort to have a look to MSEide+MSEgui. And see for example http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=6477 from 2005, MSEgui uses Unicodestring, Lazarus utf-8 in Ansistring - no need to implement Unicoderesoursstring - no resourcestring for MSEgui. It probably will be implemented when somebody needs it for Delphi compatibility. Martin -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEide for windows 64
2014-04-26 12:35 GMT+02:00 Martin Schreiber mse00...@gmail.com: On Saturday 26 April 2014 11:46:55 Julio Jiménez wrote: It depends what is ready first, FPC 3.0 or MSElang. ;-) Probably fpc 2.8.0 will be earlier... who knows ;) About MSELang... probably the language itself is not the most important. There are lots of programming languages out there. The 'batteries included' concept is probably more important than the language itself. I mean the rtl, fcl and all the external libs actually available for FPC... How old are you? ;) It is not possible for me to support FPC trunk. Lazarus is in another position than me because Lazarus is actively supported by the FPC team, MSEide+MSEgui not. On the contrary. ;-) I follow FPC mailing list and I know what you mean. I think you all have different criterias. Is like when I suggest something for MSEide and you say... 'I don't need it' ;) Sometimes I even read comments form FPC team members where they try to convince people that it is not worth the effort to have a look to MSEide+MSEgui. And see for example http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=6477 Well, you'll find opinions for both sides. Is like to choose between Kde or Gnome... ;) I think that all (FPC, MSEide+MSEgui and Lazarus) are great projects and of course, is not a waste of time to take a look at them. from 2005, MSEgui uses Unicodestring, Lazarus utf-8 in Ansistring - no need to implement Unicoderesoursstring - no resourcestring for MSEgui. It probably will be implemented when somebody needs it for Delphi compatibility. From my side, I'm happy with FPC and I have no problem in using MSEide or Lazarus, in fact I use both. About MSELang, is a good concept... I'll hold on :) -- Julio Jiménez Borreguero -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEide for windows 64
fpc team , they should take msegui as a default gui for fpc . (they made a mistak by not doing this ) lazarus is really slow and especially with gtk . lazarus LCL trying to be native look and feel for all platforms . i think its not a wise decision since they will be always dependent on the system base GUI , and make alot of layers which slowing down the performance . Msegui emulate the gui by talking directly to the OS rendering API . which make it much much faster . thats way i use it just look at wxwidgets and Qt . wxwidgets follow the native look and feel philosophy while Qt emulate the GUI . the result is Qt is much popular than wx. -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEide for windows 64
2014-04-26 14:37 GMT+02:00 Julio Jiménez juj...@gmail.com: 2014-04-26 14:23 GMT+02:00 misu kun misu@gmail.com: fpc team , they should take msegui as a default gui for fpc . (they made a mistak by not doing this ) It's your opinion and it's ok, but o Sorry.. incomplete sentence... I mean your opinion is ok, but others think different and I think fpc devs don't think like you ;) -- Julio Jiménez Borreguero -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEide for windows 64
I hear this here and there like a mantra. GTK2 is not probably the faster widgetset but for client applications it does it work. I have desktop applications in production developed with MSEide and Lazarus (gtk2 and QT) and I don't see performance issues. All are instant ;) maybe you run it on a faster computer , it appears on old ones , and then you can benchmark wxwidgets/gtk and lazarus/gtk i think its not a wise decision since they will be always dependent on the system base GUI , and make alot of layers which slowing down the performance . Msegui emulate the gui by talking directly to the OS rendering API . which make it much much faster . thats way i use it Really doesn't emulate. It has his own widgets implementation and they are really good (from my point of view) i mean drawing the widgets (gdi/x11) , qt uses hw acceleration for best performance , i hope msegui implements opengl instead of gdi as a backend rendering engine , but i remember that Martin said its difficult due to drivers issue. -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEide for windows 64
2014-04-26 15:07 GMT+02:00 misu kun misu@gmail.com: maybe you run it on a faster computer , it appears on old ones , and then you can benchmark wxwidgets/gtk and lazarus/gtk A 6-7 years old laptop is old enough? ;) I don't speak about benchmarks, I speak about real desktop client projects (in production). Of course in some cases (like intensive graphics rendering) where gtk2 performance wouldn't be acceptable. from 1 ms to 2 ms difference 100% but for a user filling a form the bottle neck is the user itself ;) -- Julio Jiménez Borreguero -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEide for windows 64
Who wants to use MSEide+MSEgui for Enterprize level server applications? I === Why not for console apps like servers ? MSEgui (arrays, containers, crypto, ..) is a very handly library. A typical modern server is 32..64GB RAM 16/32 cores 64bit CPU. A typical working scenario if it at 1000+ client is several GB taken by main server process. -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEide for windows 64
and the workarounds for buggy dwarf and gdb 64bit debugging which must be found == So, You've decided to implement 100% working 64 bit in MSElang. No itentions to have MSEgui working on FPC 2.7. Will MElang be LLVM based to have all hardware optimizations of every of modern CPUs always up-to-date ? -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEide for windows 64
fpc team , they should take msegui as a default gui for fpc . (they made a mistak by not doing this ) lazarus is really slow and especially with gtk === Very mush of religion inertion. Impossible to turn back to speed RAM optimisation - which may lead to gradual death of the project once embedded devices are becoming mainstream. Me advice MSEgui to pay more atenton to handhelds. -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEide for windows 64
On Saturday 26 April 2014 16:55:01 Ivanko B wrote: Will MElang be LLVM based to have all hardware optimizations of every of modern CPUs always up-to-date ? I plan to use several backends, LLVM is possibly one of them. But I fear you are a little bit too optimistic with regard to optimisations and support of every modern CPU of LLVM, ;-) Martin -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] bug in ubuntu 14_04
Rescue of drowning handiwork of drowning... :) At the moment is not so critical, but... -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] MSEide for windows 64
But I fear you are a little bit too optimistic But anyway there's nothing better and maintainable :) -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
Re: [MSEide-MSEgui-talk] bug in ubuntu 14_04
On Saturday 26 April 2014 20:13:28 amateur wrote: Rescue of drowning handiwork of drowning... :) I don't understand. At the moment is not so critical, but... If Ubuntu users want to have it fixed they must write Ubuntu bug reports. My question has been marked as invalid because the question is not understandable: http://askubuntu.com/questions/451903/wingravity-static-gravity-not-suppo My bug report has been marked as invalid because I don't know which package is affected: https://gitorious.org/mseuniverse/mseuniverse/source/testcase/window/staticgravity Martin -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform ___ mseide-msegui-talk mailing list mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk
