Re: The mapper (hardware)...
THE MAPPER (hardware) == status: unfinished version: 1.0 The first 64kB of the Z380's address range should be mapped just like normal MSX mappers (controlled through I/O ports FC, FD, FE and FF). The maximum number of RAM for this adress range will then ofcourse be the first 4 MB of the total RAM. The rest of the RAM _could_ be used linear-only, but I think it's for a future multitasking OS' sake best to also use a mapper for that. I suggest to divide the RAM in 64kB segments. The pages could then be controlled through I/O ports 1 - 1, which each can have a 16-bit segment number varying from 0 to in it, hence resulting in a total of 4 GB max. mappersize. So the 'user' (read: program) has the choice to use mapping or map all RAM linear. Since the way I described above will result in problems with the I/O devices, it is not a possible solution. There is only one option. Simply using all RAM linear is not one of them. The 'future multitasking OS' will than simply have to require that only relative calls and jumps are being made. However, it is not possible, because there's no relative LD (),HL or something like that. So we will have to use some kind of controller. Damn, that makes it more complicated. I propose something like this: Mapper I/O Device ID: 0001 I/O port 0 (16-bit): RAM area select (auto increment) I/O port 1 (16-bit): Mapperpage select So the mapper can be controlled by writing values to I/O ports #00010050 and #00010060. This can then be done using OTIR(W), or a 24-bits DDIR IB : OUTAW (nn),A... Concerning the mapper controller, it will need 64k of internal RAM... That's a big contra... I don't know if that's possible. Anyone any suggestions??? For example, use the uppermost 64k of the RAM to store this information??? Or only map the first 16 MB and leave the rest linear??? (then you will only need 256 internal memory cells). Let me know... I think the Basic RAM-setup should be entirely linear (0-3 in FC-FF and - in 1-1). It's the task of the BIOS to take care of this. In a new OS (or extension of an old OS), there should be functions available like "allocate x segments" and "enable x segments starting with segment y at adress z and following". You might think this requires alot of instructions to set up all this RAM, but the Z380 has special I/O instructions which can write numerous values to numerous I/O ports. Some kind of LDIR, but then for I/O ports. I was wrong here. This instruction can only be used with internal I/O. ~Grauw -- email me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or ICQ: 10196372 visit my homepage at http://grauw.blehq.org/ MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Re: ACE 002 and ADVRAM...? New MSX?
] Okay, now I come to think of it, I admit it will also be very useful to ] display 3D rendered stuff. Okay, leave it in, it's a good idea. ] ]Yes! (-; No only 3D... videos also. ] ] Okay, I'm sold! ] ] It will not matter much for games, but things like 3D and video will have ] great advantage of this. Games too. They can now render directly in VRAM in stead of first rendering in RAM and then copying to VRAM Kind regards, Alex Wulms -- Visit The MSX Plaza (http://www.inter.nl.net/users/A.P.Wulms) for info on XelaSoft, Merlasoft, Quadrivium, XSA Disk images, the MSX Hardware list, SD-Snatcher on fMSX, documentation and lots more. MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Re: ACE 002 and ADVRAM...? New MSX?
] ] Whow, that's news (not). ] You need to add 7 T-states of wait (usually an LD A,n) between two OUTs. ] However, OTIR itself is that slow the wait is already included. So, you can make a faster transfer for ADVRAM, with something like: loop: ldi ldi ldi ldi ldi ldi ldi jp pe,loop Now, you win a lot of time, since the ldi is faster then ldir. You can not use this trick with oti, since the VDP will not keep up with the speed. Kind regards, Alex Wulms -- Visit The MSX Plaza (http://www.inter.nl.net/users/A.P.Wulms) for info on XelaSoft, Merlasoft, Quadrivium, XSA Disk images, the MSX Hardware list, SD-Snatcher on fMSX, documentation and lots more. MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Re: virtual retrace?
] ] On the other hand, maybe it's better to use a ON INTERVAL command. I'm not ] sure how it works, but if it's interrupt driven it might be faster than ] checking S#2 bit 6. Besides, I don't even know you CAN read S#2 in BASIC ] since the interrupt routine always expects S#0! You can read S#2 in BASIC with VDP(-2). But ON INTERVAL is indeed the preferred solution to synchronise graphical updates with the vertical retrace. And if plain BASIC is too slow, there still is KUN-BASIC to speed it up significant. Kind regards, Alex Wulms -- Visit The MSX Plaza (http://www.inter.nl.net/users/A.P.Wulms) for info on XelaSoft, Merlasoft, Quadrivium, XSA Disk images, the MSX Hardware list, SD-Snatcher on fMSX, documentation and lots more. MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Re: ACE002, Z180, (LPE) Z380, ADVRAM... New MSX...
] IN F,(C) is not available in either of the processors. This instruction actually exists on the Z80 and therefore also on the Z380. Quote from the Z80 instruction table: Mnemonic: IN r,(C) Sym Operation: r - (C) Opcode: 11 101 101 01 r000 r stands for register: 000: B 001: C 010: D 011: E 100: H 101: L 110: (HL) Remark: if r = 110, only the flags will be affected Hence, the R800 instruction IN F,(C) is the equivalent of the Z80 instruction IN (HL),(C). Kind regards, Alex Wulms -- Visit The MSX Plaza (http://www.inter.nl.net/users/A.P.Wulms) for info on XelaSoft, Merlasoft, Quadrivium, XSA Disk images, the MSX Hardware list, SD-Snatcher on fMSX, documentation and lots more. MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Re: ACE 002 and ADVRAM...? New MSX?
I care, because I want to run my MSX programs faster! I asked in the other mail also, what programs are those? PMEXT, pe. UZIX. Breeze. VIP 2+... (-: Turbo Pascal, Hitech-C, SD Snatcher, Nemesis, R-Type, calculation programs... Adriano Camargo Rodrigues da Cunha ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Engenharia de Computacao - UNICAMP http://www.adrpage.cjb.net http://if.you.dont.like.msx.usuck.com * This marks Logical End-Of-Message. Physical EOM follows. * MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Re: ACE002, Z180, (LPE) Z380, ADVRAM... New MSX...
On Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:11:46 +0200, Laurens Holst wrote: Most of the instructions you are talking about remained the same as they used to be. They are only extended in another operation mode. There are very few new specific instructions to cope with the extended address range. Most new functions are 16-bit extensions (16-bit add). Those could also have been added to the Z180. Not only DIV, but also RLCW HL - ANDW HL,BC - NEGW HL - SUB SP,nn and things like PUSH nn - EX BC,DE etcetera. So you are still quite wrong here, although I now understand what you mean. I do not think they are "so" important, since they never were missed by me... (-; This type of thing will take away the "register selection" task... (-; These I really need to read. It's really nothing much new from the Z80. Once you know the Z80, and you know which instructions have been added and you know about internal I/O and traps, you've pretty much covered it all... This is very good, because I talked with Ademir and ACE002 will REALLY be a MSX2+ Ultra Fast... Maybe a MSX TR ultra fast. With some hardware add-ons that may be placed everywhere. 100% compatible with previous MSX2+ computers. No new "commands". BTW, he talked me about some hardware changes on Z180 I already know, but I was not aware that he was using. A new feature that he will probably add (and this will be not compatible with computers that doesn't use Z180) will be the HighSpeed Serial Ports, that are ready inside the computer. The speed goes up to 2Mbit/s. I think it's pretty nice... to plug on a PC and share hardware. (-; Hmmm... If that's true the it's pretty darn stupid of them. I think it just hangs, but doesn't trap. Otherwise, I really believe they would have implemented it... OS/2 reports a trap and in several situations you may stay working as nothing has happened. Windows do implement this. (Linux also). OS/2 does. But of course, OS/2 closes the app that caused a Trap... when it's possible. Not all traps on x86 are regarding to non-existent ops. Windows ans Linux implement "divide by zero" exception - which on x86 are treated like a trap. Memory parity errors are also presented as traps. Of course a memory parity error is not a recoverable trap, p.e. EduCAR is not MSX. No. But it's based on the same idea... but without all the MSX limitants. (-; BTW, LPE Z380 "Enhanced Mode" is not MSX also. (-; Or better, it's so MSX as EduCar. And as I stated above, most new instructions could also have been added to the Z180... They have nothing to do with the extended address range etc. Yes, you are right. Some. But they are absolutely NOT 200% more than Z80 instruction set! That's point of view. (-; I am trying to say that although it might execute some turboR programs correctly where the Z380 doesn't, that's an advantage. But it must at all cost be prevented that those instructions are also being used in newer software. Well... I don't know, because maybe we will have a new MSX, that may be produced, that supports those instructions. (-; A new FAST MSX2+ (or a new FAST MSX TR!) -; I don't know how this comparison was made. Me neither, but it includes the benefit from the extended instruction set. I guess they made several small programs, all optimized for their appropriate processor, and then measured the results. If it was, it was not a fair comparison. Look at the restrictions Ricardo has made to compare ADVRAM with the standard VDP operations. If he do a program without those restrictions, ADVRAM will look a lot faster, which will be not reality in the "normal operation". It compares the overal performance, but not the performance with the same code at the same clockspeed (which would give us the real boost from changing from one to another processor). A note: you may notice that code optimized for Z380 (even using only Z80 code) will be slower on a Z80 than the same code optimized for Z80. If they have done this, of course Z380 will show a biiig performance compared to Z80 and Z180... (-; And, of course, for Z380 only programs, this comparison *is* valid. But it's not Ademir's target. I agree. Only through software perhaps... And ofcourse the BIOS should be compatible. Yes. (-; If it's already there, they must (otherwise they can't run new European software anymore). I think they're not "that worried" about this. (-; Wouldn't they??? I doubt it... I don't. For years they'd done their own software. And it's good software. They doesn't like english. Their culture is different. I'm not saying it's worst or better. I'm just saying it's different. And the same goes for us, here, in Brazil. AbraçOS/2, Daniel Caetano ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ...!m.tag OS/2 Sites: http://www.quasarbbs.com/daniel/ http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8752/os2hp/os2index.html MSX Sites: http://www.fudeba.cjb.net/ Drawings: http://www.djgallery.tsx.org/ MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe,
multiple disk drives
Holas, I have a nms 8235 which has a *whine* 360kb internal diskdrive. This is no biggy though as i also have an external cannon VF-100 which is 720kb. The reason of this post? The cannon is both A and B, and the internal floppy is C. The external drive has a connector for another external drive, but it's currently not used. So I guess it 'emulates' it somehow. Is there any way to kill this behaviour? Also.. Is there a way to access drive 1/2/3 under basic? greetz, Floris MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Re: ACE 002 and ADVRAM...? New MSX?
] Whow, that's news (not). ] You need to add 7 T-states of wait (usually an LD A,n) between two OUTs. ] However, OTIR itself is that slow the wait is already included. So, you can make a faster transfer for ADVRAM, with something like: loop: ldi ldi ldi ldi ldi ldi ldi jp pe,loop Now, you win a lot of time, since the ldi is faster then ldir. You can not use this trick with oti, since the VDP will not keep up with the speed. I don't know about port #98, but I always send my VDP commands using OUTI's (not oti, btw)... But then again, if I remember correctly the minimum wait for ports #9A and #9B was only 4 T-states. ~Grauw -- email me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or ICQ: 10196372 visit my homepage at http://grauw.blehq.org/ MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Re: ACE002, Z180, (LPE) Z380, ADVRAM... New MSX...
] IN F,(C) is not available in either of the processors. This instruction actually exists on the Z80 and therefore also on the Z380. Quote from the Z80 instruction table: Mnemonic: IN r,(C) Sym Operation: r - (C) Opcode: 11 101 101 01 r000 r stands for register: 000: B 001: C 010: D 011: E 100: H 101: L 110: (HL) Remark: if r = 110, only the flags will be affected Hence, the R800 instruction IN F,(C) is the equivalent of the Z80 instruction IN (HL),(C). You're right. IN (HL),(C) is the undocumented instruction. All other IN r,(C) registers also set the flags according to the result. So I think the IN F,(C) is just an instruction to ONLY set the flags, and not influencing any other register. ~Grauw -- email me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or ICQ: 10196372 visit my homepage at http://grauw.blehq.org/ MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Re: ACE002, Z180, (LPE) Z380, ADVRAM... New MSX...
Most new functions are 16-bit extensions (16-bit add). Those could also have been added to the Z180. Not only DIV, but also RLCW HL - ANDW HL,BC - NEGW HL - SUB SP,nn and things like PUSH nn - EX BC,DE etcetera. So you are still quite wrong here, although I now understand what you mean. I do not think they are "so" important, since they never were missed by me... (-; This type of thing will take away the "register selection" task... (-; RLCW HL... Oh holy!!! I used it so often... Anyways, ofcourse you can program around. You always can. But those are easier. By the way, there are no new 32-bit calculation registers... I think the 16-bit ones can be extended to 32-bits using DDIR's though. These I really need to read. It's really nothing much new from the Z80. Once you know the Z80, and you know which instructions have been added and you know about internal I/O and traps, you've pretty much covered it all... This is very good, because I talked with Ademir and ACE002 will REALLY be a MSX2+ Ultra Fast... Maybe a MSX TR ultra fast. With some hardware add-ons that may be placed everywhere. 100% compatible with previous MSX2+ computers. No new "commands". Perfect. BTW, he talked me about some hardware changes on Z180 I already know, but I was not aware that he was using. A new feature that he will probably add (and this will be not compatible with computers that doesn't use Z180) will be the HighSpeed Serial Ports, that are ready inside the computer. The speed goes up to 2Mbit/s. I think it's pretty nice... to plug on a PC and share hardware. (-; Well that's nice. It will only cause incompatibility with dedicated apps, so that's not really a problem to me. EduCAR is not MSX. No. But it's based on the same idea... but without all the MSX limitants. (-; BTW, LPE Z380 "Enhanced Mode" is not MSX also. (-; Or better, it's so MSX as EduCar. Fact is, EduCar will be not compatible with old soft. LPE's Z380 is also not compatible with old soft, therefor it isn't MSX either. The MSX3 I am sending 'specs' about recently IS a 'new' MSX. And as I stated above, most new instructions could also have been added to the Z180... They have nothing to do with the extended address range etc. Yes, you are right. Some. But they are absolutely NOT 200% more than Z80 instruction set! I never stated that at all. I don't think even the entire instruction set is 200% more that the Z80 instruction set. That's point of view. (-; I am trying to say that although it might execute some turboR programs correctly where the Z380 doesn't, that's an advantage. But it must at all cost be prevented that those instructions are also being used in newer software. Well... I don't know, because maybe we will have a new MSX, that may be produced, that supports those instructions. (-; A new FAST MSX2+ (or a new FAST MSX TR!) -; The Z380 is at the moment the only candidate for a new MSX. Creating an own processor is too much work, if we do that it will take another three years only to create the processor (or something like that). And that's stupid if there already is a fit candidate. I don't know how this comparison was made. Me neither, but it includes the benefit from the extended instruction set. I guess they made several small programs, all optimized for their appropriate processor, and then measured the results. If it was, it was not a fair comparison. Look at the restrictions Ricardo has made to compare ADVRAM with the standard VDP operations. If he do a program without those restrictions, ADVRAM will look a lot faster, which will be not reality in the "normal operation". It compares the overal performance, but not the performance with the same code at the same clockspeed (which would give us the real boost from changing from one to another processor). This was only a short note I bumped into somewhere. There is an entire 42-page PDF in which the Z380 is compared with several other processors. A note: you may notice that code optimized for Z380 (even using only Z80 code) will be slower on a Z80 than the same code optimized for Z80. If they have done this, of course Z380 will show a biiig performance compared to Z80 and Z180... (-; Probably. And, of course, for Z380 only programs, this comparison *is* valid. But it's not Ademir's target. I am not talking about Ademir' project. If it's already there, they must (otherwise they can't run new European software anymore). I think they're not "that worried" about this. (-; Wouldn't they??? I doubt it... I don't. For years they'd done their own software. And it's good software. They doesn't like english. Their culture is different. I'm not saying it's worst or better. I'm just saying it's different. And the same goes for us, here, in Brazil. It's a bad thing. I hope at least Brazil and Europe can sync their MSX activities. ~Grauw -- email me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or
Re: ACE002, Z180, (LPE) Z380, ADVRAM... New MSX...
The Z380 is at the moment the only candidate for a new MSX. Creating an own processor is too much work, if we do that it will take another three years only to create the processor (or something like that). And that's stupid if there already is a fit candidate. Create a "new" MSX standard is something Ademir had already said he will not do. So, be my guest to develop it... (-: They doesn't like english. Their culture is different. I'm not saying it's worst or better. I'm just saying it's different. And the same goes for us, here, in Brazil. It's a bad thing. I hope at least Brazil and Europe can sync their MSX activities. I think it'll be easy if both sides have good will. (-; AbraçOS/2, Daniel Caetano ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ...!m.tag OS/2 Sites: http://www.quasarbbs.com/daniel/ http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8752/os2hp/os2index.html MSX Sites: http://www.fudeba.cjb.net/ Drawings: http://www.djgallery.tsx.org/ MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Re: Z180 vs Z380 (was Re: ACE 002 and ADVRAM...? New MSX?)
Patriek Lesparre wrote: On a final note, I'd like to qoute from a message by Pablo Vasques: Although Leonard Oliveira will convert my old MSX1 to MSX2 and you can expect some GOOD things coming from this. I'm not allowed to say more. :] So upgrading to a new system hightens his productivity? At least he promises good things. Let me explain that: of course, upgrading my system wouldn't affect my productivity "per se". However, I intend to use some MSX2-only tools, and unfortunately I'm very skeptic about their programmers' doing MSX1 versions only for me. Of course, they can't realize that may be more people like me in the scene. I'm not a programmer, and of course I can't push my personal software shortage to any program; my dream tool doesn't exist and I honestly can't say if a programmer devoted time, sweat and sleep to a project like mine (considering I'd hardly help him) it would be rewarding to him. Maybe I'll never know if there's more people like me, who dream of a music composing tool with support to PSG, SCC, MSX-Music, MSX-Audio, Moonsound and some other hypothetical music hardware... And don't say that's not feasible. RicBit told me it's feasible, and if he say so... :) As for my promises, well... I may be late, but I'll not fail, following my own tradition. :)) I'm in the same position, although slightly different, and I think others are as well. I have here a turboR, Video9000, MoonSound 640kB, but no reallly great processor power. When I get a Z380 (and I WILL get a Z380 for sure) I will make a Z380 GEM, and I will probably make lots of other stuff! Coz Z380 is cool! We must be honest right now and tell what we want: something for myself or something for the masses. Unfortunately I never talked to Carchano or Padial about their Zx80 projects; despite I'm not the hardware guy, I think both projects have very interesting features. How- ever, I'm inclined to think ADVRAM would have a much bigger impact right now, because it's really a Columbus' Egg and it's good! `: Moreover, it's not expensive and it's rela- tively simple, hardware-wise -- sounds simpler to me than Carchano and Padial's Zx80 projects. *yawn* I'm tired, I'm probably talking nonsense again, and nobody probably cares about these messages... I think we're about done talking anyway, since we seem to agree on many things. The only difference is: I want a new MSX, you want a faster MSX. My dream: we could have an unified development environment which would able us to write an app for Z80, Z180 and Z380 with minimal changes in sourcecodes. This way, software developers could write cross-compatible apps more easily... Of course, I wouldn't dive very deep into this questions because of hardware implications... :] []s, Parn ICQ#1693182 http://parn.cjb.net/ Parn's Music Station Game Music and more! MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Re: two liners art gallery
On Sun, 23 Apr 2000, Ricardo Bittencourt Vidigal Leitao wrote: It's called "two liners art gallery", because two-liners programming is much more an art than a science :) Point your browsers to ... http://www.lsi.usp.br/~ricardo/msx/twoliner ... and don't forget to send comments ! Well, you really have shown that programming is an art! I think that, in RBRace line 2, where you print the score, you should change the comma (,) by a double comma (,,), so the score will be printed on the line below the "game over". The descriptions are very funny, mainly the "Genius" one. Why didn't you never showed us "Nemesis Dawn" demo? Don't say that you made it yestarday! That's a very good page, even if you don't run the programs. I don't think that the download links are necessary, you can just copy and paste the programs. Greetings from Brazil! --- Marco Antonio Simon Dal Pozturning your path into the best! [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lsi.usp.br/~mdalpoz MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Z380, go read the manual (was Re: ACE002, Z180, (LPE) Z380, ADVRAM... New MSX...)
Daniel Jorge Caetano wrote: "new" Relative calls are about the 32 bit addresses. It doesn't make sense on a 8 bit processor (such as Z180). ofcourse they make sense on an 8 bit processor! They allow fully relocatable programs. They are NOT about 32 bit addresses, but can be used in 8, 16 or 24 bit. "new" EX are relative to new registers. It doens't make sense on a processor that doesn't have such registers. The new EX instructions are for the EXACT SAME registers as Z80 and Z180 have. Except for the shadowed IX/IY, there are NO new registers in Z380 that can be exchanged directly with EX instructions. Mult and Div is something new. So, the good features of Z380 are the Mult, Div, New registers and a new address space. The "other" new functions are depending on those enhancements... (and would be a shame if they don't exist!) If you take away all new registers and the new address space of the Z380, you would still benefit greatly from the enhanced instructions. They are NOT depending on those features! Have you at all read the Z380 manual?! I believe you once said you're not a real assembly programmer. That would explain why you don't see the great improvement the Z380 instruction set offers, even without the new registers and address space. I know Z380. (-; You just had not understood what I was trying to say. (-; Of course I know Z380 is very good (and this is why I fought to use it in the past), because it's easier to program due to lots of registers and a big address space. More instructions are just consequence. (-; Like I said before, the new instructions are NOT a consequence of the new registers and address space! Read the manual again. I had read, but I don't know where you found so many "new actions" Z380, that are not realted to the new address space and/or new registers. I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT DOESN'T HAVE NEW instructions, and they are not usefull. They are! With the new registers and new address space, they are amazing! But not on Z180. The only I really miss are mult and div, FOR MSX, of course. On Educar the things will be a lot different... (-; The new instructions of the Z380 have been repeated over and over in the past week, and I'm not gonna do it again. :/ If you really don't understand the new instructions are NOT related to the new address space and registers, I can't make it any clearer to you. :( But it's a way not MSX... (-; And you will not convince me. Just because a new processor has a lot of enhancements doesn't make it a better solution for upgrade MSX. I mentioned x86 as a powerful processor, better than Z380. x86 isn't powerful at all. Z380 is more powerful than 386 at same clockspeed! The only reason 486 and Pentium-series are more powerful than 386 is because they are superscalar, so that doesn't count. Besides using a recent x86-processor would mean a HUGE cost in board-design 'n stuff... You said "oh, but there is only 7 registers...!"... Well... then let's use PowerPC, on a new board. PowerPC is a looong way better than Z380. And has lots of registers also. You want to program PowerPC assembly? neither do I! Heh, why not use MIPS 4000 or something... Those processors aren't even designed for assembly programming. You yourself said how important it is to use a processor architecture people are already familiar with. MSX people are familiar with Z80, so use a Z80-family processor. Patriek MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Re: Z180 vs Z380 (was Re: ACE 002 and ADVRAM...? New MSX?)
Pablo Vasques Bravo-Villalba wrote: I'm not a programmer, and of course I can't push my personal software shortage to any program; my dream tool doesn't exist and I honestly can't say if a programmer devoted time, sweat and sleep to a project like mine (considering I'd hardly help him) it would be rewarding to him. Maybe I'll never know if there's more people like me, who dream of a music composing tool with support to PSG, SCC, MSX-Music, MSX-Audio, Moonsound and some other hypothetical music hardware... Oh, I dream of the same thing! Besides being a programmer, I like to make music as well. (At least I did a few years ago ^^;) I've had several ideas over the last few years and you know, I may even decide to write the perfect music composing tool! :) Patriek MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Re: ACE002, Z180, (LPE) Z380, ADVRAM... New MSX...
I do not think they are "so" important, since they never were missed by me... (-; This type of thing will take away the "register selection" task... (-; If you think like this, you wouldn't need ANY new instructions! Ofcourse you can do whatever new instruction the Z380 has in several legacy Z80 instructions, but I'd like to see how slow your implementation of "LD DE,(SP-12)" would be! Or "EX B,B'" for that matter. And they can be REALLY handy. The reason you never missed them, is because you never thought about them as a possibility! Heh, why don't you go program 6502? 3 registers, and only 8 bit at that! A programmer doesn't need anything more, does he? And as I stated above, most new instructions could also have been added to the Z180... They have nothing to do with the extended address range etc. Yes, you are right. Some. But they are absolutely NOT 200% more than Z80 instruction set! I haven't done the exact math, but when you look at the Z380 opcode tables, it seems the instruction set has nearly doubled. And if you take into account the enhanced Z80-instructions (16 bit indexing 'n stuff) it's easy to get to that number. Patriek MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
8x8 sprites in BrMSX screen 5
Yeah? Well, I still haven't seen 8x8 sprite support in screen 5. And we really need it, for GEM development... Hey, big fudeba! I told you once, Daniel told you and also Ricardo told you! Send e-mails to Ricardo asking for 8x8 sprites in BrMSX SCREEN 5 until he implements it. Or you'll continue without your 8x8 sprites until one day he decides to implement it. That's the true. Got it? Adriano Camargo Rodrigues da Cunha ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Engenharia de Computacao - UNICAMP http://www.adrpage.cjb.net http://if.you.dont.like.msx.usuck.com * This tagline is not Y2K compliant: Happy 1900! * MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Re: two liners art gallery
On Mon, 24 Apr 2000 18:03:54 -0300 (EST), Marco Antonio Simon dal Poz wrote: Why didn't you never showed us "Nemesis Dawn" demo? Don't say that you made it yestarday! It was shown in MSX Rio'99! (-; AbraçOS/2, Daniel Caetano ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ...!m.tag OS/2 Sites: http://www.quasarbbs.com/daniel/ http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8752/os2hp/os2index.html MSX Sites: http://www.fudeba.cjb.net/ Drawings: http://www.djgallery.tsx.org/ MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Re: Z380, go read the manual (was Re: ACE002, Z180, (LPE) Z380, ADVRAM... New MSX...)
On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 00:30:50 +0200, Patriek Lesparre wrote: If you take away all new registers and the new address space of the Z380, you would still benefit greatly from the enhanced instructions. They are NOT depending on those features! I think you are a lazy programmer. (-; Have you at all read the Z380 manual?! Yes, a long time ago, and I think it's good, but even at that time, I knew processors a lot better than it (like PPC). So, of course I did not put "that" attention to it. I will read it carefully when I will program for it. I have no time to expend on learning an ASM language that maybe I'll never use. At this time,I had re-read almost two time all Z80 ASM books I have here, to look how I can benefit from it's features, instead of dreaming with a never-ending history. I believe you once said you're not a real assembly programmer. HAHAHAHA. I learn ASM programming just 11 years ago. And I'd programming somewhat actively since begginig of 98. That would explain why you don't see the great improvement the Z380 instruction set offers, even without the new registers and address space. I understand, son. But if you think that easy programming will bring us more programmers, or even better programs, sorry, but you are very, very wrong. Processors easy to program and "little barriers" bring us laziness. If you say me: "Lets use Z380 coz it has an BIG address space and it'll let us do *this* and *that*, which are not possible with only 64K", I'll agree you. If you say: "Let's use Mult and Div" because we will be able to create 3D games impossible without these instructions", I'll agree with you. If you say me: I want to do LD HL,DE because I don't want to use PUSH DE, POP HL or LD E,L , LD D,H , I'll not agree with you, unless you proof me which application that is not possible today without this feature will be possible. To make the things easier... let's program Visual Basic on a PC. (-; Like I said before, the new instructions are NOT a consequence of the new registers and address space! Read the manual again. If the computer using Z380 arrive to my hands, I'll for sure. By now, I believe on those WORK with HARDWARE and read the manual everyday and say me what is good and what is not. And the things you are talking "that are awesome", I really think are good thinks, but not "awesome". As a Z80 programmer, I like to program it because it's easy to program, but also because it's very limited and even on this way I can do very interesting things with it. And I think: "Ricardo do with a MSX what you don't do with your Pentium". And he is RIGHT. The ones that KNOW how to do, don't need to wait for a new machine. Do it now. And it works... better or worst, but works. Look at MUST. It's the "MSX MP3"... (-; Of course with Z180 it'll be possible to play REAL MP3 with full quality, but with Z80 and PSG, the best is what MUST do... (when talking about compressed sound). This is the real chalenge. I don't care if I can do LD DE,HL with a single instruction or it will need two instructions. I care if I CAN do something or if I CAN'T. And WHAT Z380 CAN DO THAT Z80 CANNOT? Address 4Gb of RAM, switch between 4 banks of 32 bit registers, MULT, DIV... x86 isn't powerful at all. Z380 is more powerful than 386 at same clockspeed! The only reason 486 and Pentium-series are more powerful than 386 is because they are superscalar, so that doesn't count. Besides using a recent x86-processor would mean a HUGE cost in board-design 'n stuff... Hey, come on. 386 + 387 (once Z380 HAS a math processor inside it... better... It IS a MMU with a processor inside it) do more things than Z380. Some things I really like on 386 (I don't remember if they are on Z380 also, but I think they are not: - 386 even manages multiple v86 sessions. This is a complex task, and very usefull when multitasking. - 386 helps to manage virtual memory (swap). - The main feature VERY NICE on x86 processor is generate address spaces always begining at :::. (-; This is nice. There is no need for relocatable code if you have such feature - 386 (and even 286, if I'm not wrong) has the interesting feature of hardware protection for applications, throught the rings. x86 is a great processor. It just lacks some more registers, and a better computer (the PC architeture is very bizarre and use the x86 on the worst way possible). But when I talk on x86, I means x equal or greater than 3. (-; You want to program PowerPC assembly? neither do I! I don't know. I was looking for some PPC ASM books. It's a wonderful machine. Heh, why not use MIPS 4000 or something... Those processors aren't even designed for assembly programming. (-; All processors are designed to talk on their own language. (-; It may be easy or difficult, but you can always benefit on programming ASM. Of course, it you have a good assembler that do the optimizations on alignment. Do alignment "on hand" is very hard and boring. You
Re: ACE002, Z180, (LPE) Z380, ADVRAM... New MSX...
On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 01:05:26 +0200, Patriek Lesparre wrote: If you think like this, you wouldn't need ANY new instructions! Ofcourse you can do whatever new instruction the Z380 has in several legacy Z80 instructions, but I'd like to see how slow your implementation of "LD DE,(SP-12)" would be! Or "EX B,B'" for that matter. I just miss some math instructions, sometimes. But that's all. But you may be sure: My "slow implementation" will runs everywhere. Your "fast" implemantation will run on your house. Look at DalPoz SuperFastCopy! It's the faster disk copier possible. But it only runs on port based interfaces. As result? Almost no one knows DalPoz's Super Fast Copy! And they can be REALLY handy. The reason you never missed them, is because you never thought about them as a possibility! Sometimes I think "Oh! If this opcode just exists I could replace these ten lines by one!". But then I think "nah, this way is better. This is which make the programming something nice!". If there was a opcode for everything, anyone would do everything. And it would be all "one opcode programs", because there is even an opcode "WordProcessor" and this type of things. Heh, why don't you go program 6502? 3 registers, and only 8 bit at that! A programmer doesn't need anything more, does he? I think that programers for 6502 are real artists. AbraçOS/2, Daniel Caetano ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ...!m.tag OS/2 Sites: http://www.quasarbbs.com/daniel/ http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8752/os2hp/os2index.html MSX Sites: http://www.fudeba.cjb.net/ Drawings: http://www.djgallery.tsx.org/ MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Re: two liners art gallery
On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Daniel Jorge Caetano wrote: Why didn't you never showed us "Nemesis Dawn" demo? Don't say that you made it yestarday! It was shown in MSX Rio'99! (-; The version in the page in not the same version shown in rio'99 As you may remember , that version had only half of the animation. The version in the art gallery has the complete animation. Now you may ask me why I delayed for so long the release of the new version... The answer is that the current version didn't work in BrMSX until the new release 2.5 ;-) Ricardo Bittencourt http://www.lsi.usp.br/~ricardo [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Ricardo is subtle, but malicious he is not" -- Uniao contra o forward - crie suas proprias piadas -- MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
Re: ACE 002 and ADVRAM...? New MSX?
At 08:01 PM 4/21/00 -0300, you wrote: On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 19:17:04, Ricardo Jurczyk Pinheiro wrote: There is a RGB - VGA module schematic into Novatec´s homepage. Does it only work for VGA monitors? Or it works with SVGA too and am I not aware? Don´t know, ask Egor... =) Ricardo Jurczyk Pinheiro - ICQ UIN:3635907 - [EMAIL PROTECTED]|_Sola Scriptura | http://i.am/rjp -M.Sc. Numerical Modelling (hope so!) |_ Sola Gratia | UFF - Niteroi - RJ - Brazil - [EMAIL PROTECTED]_| Sola Fide | MSX, ST, B5, X-F, Anime, Christian, Maths, CuD, Linux!_| Solo Cristi | Christian, Rock, Comics, Transformers, and hate M$! | Soli Deo Gloria | MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
MSX Talk
25/04/00 Hi Folks! I just wanna tell you about a MSX forum, called MSX Talk, anyone iw welcome to post any messages there! Here's the Url http://network54.com/Hide/Forum/21026 Hope to read your messages there soon!!! Rafael Lima (A.K.A. Shatterhand) MSX Mailinglist. To unsubscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put "unsubscribe msx [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without the quotes) in the body (not the subject) of the message. Problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information on MSX can be found in the following places: The MSX faq: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/ The MSX newsgroup: comp.sys.msx The MSX IRC channel: #MSX on Undernet
