Re: [MSX] MSX Resource Center
TFH|Fony wrote: Hmmm, Quite funny to read about FAF again, that has been a LONG LONG time since we did anything with that. *grin* (smiles nostalgic). And MEP? Sorry.. MEP was by me, not by Patriek. I think you mean GEM? I think he meant the MAP, which is actually by me :). And GEM also has a Z80 version. Runs pretty decent on turboR... Even works ok for some games (*cough* tetris *cough* ;p) on 7MHz. ~Grauw -- Ushiko-san! Kimi wa doushite, Ushiko-san!! ___ MSX mailing list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Info page: http://lists.stack.nl/mailman/listinfo/msx
Re: [MSX] MSX Resource Center
Albert Beevendorp wrote: This is really way below the belt. Patriek does more for the MSX Community than you can imagine and at moments like these the only thing you can do is be negative about him without forgetting all the positive he has done already and will do for the community. Well, I think that apart from Herbert's post, the others raised valid points/opinions. And after all, GuyveR800 *did* choose to throw this in the open, and then you then can't expect everyone to agree with that (as long as they don't start swearing - oops -_-;;). By the way, it is funny. The MSX Mailinglist may not be the best place to discuss something like this, because everyone receives these messages and you can't really choose to ignore messages on this topic. Kind of the downside of a mailing list I guess. Anyways, the 'funny' part (in a strange, twisted way, I guess :/) is that a forum would be a much more practical place for this, yet it apparantly cannot be discussed there because, well, sounds like it is being censored. What I think about this (given the little info I have about the details) is that it seems to me the MRC is a bit too trigger-happy with the moderation, and abuses their 'power'. With the latter I mean that MRC basically has a lot of respect from the MSX community... if they say something, it is given greater weight automatically, and if they want to handle things professionally they hence have to be careful in what they say, or in the way they moderate. What I think needs to happen... First of all, MRC apparantly does not see a need to resolve this, and certainly does not believe that they are at least also partly to blame. Maybe rethinking this would be, to put it lightly, a Good Idea. Also, they need to adjust their policy. The current one for example states Everything on the msx.org domain, except for reactions on newsposts, forum entries and files in the freeware downloads database, is copyrighted by The MSX Resource Center.. Following from this is that those three mentioned are copyrighted by the respective user, and means that they have to honour all requests the user has, even for deletion of all copyrighted material from their site. The forum edit lock after 30 minutes is also in strong contrast with this line of the policy. In other words, change it (though files should ofcourse stay copyrighted), or live by it. I think GuyveR800 on the other hand needs to pipe down a little. The MRC *is* their site, and if they don't want certain things to appear on it, I'd say it is basically in their rights to remove it. Ofcourse, it isn't exactly good for their image as an independant site when they throw free speech in the garbage bin (like Daniel said). Posting negative things about the MRC on their forum however doesn't exactly make it easy for them to ignore. Also, I have my doubts that it was really nessecary to bring this in the open. I understand that you are frustrated by the way the MRC treats you lately and basically doesn't let you defend yourself. However it might be a (very) good idea to sometimes swallow your pride and not let the situation escalate further. Ofcourse, I guess it is too late now. On the other hand, as the MRC first said they closed the discussion because they wanted to 'resolve it internally', and later on privately changed their minds, apparantly they either 1. want to resolve it in the open, or 2. don't want to resolve it at all, which seems quite a bad choice and disrespectful towards one of their prime users to boot. So, what are you left with then. Btw, note that if such a thing is brought 'to the attention of the public', then it is kind of hard for that 'public' to make a judgement without knowing the details. Though I'm making a good job trying just that, apparantly :). And I read you wanted a public apology and full rehabilitation. Well, maybe I missed something, but I didn't really see the MRC publicly dismiss you (what happened privately is a seperate matter), certainly not enough to justify such a 'public apology', so a demand for this does seem a bit over the top. A public apology as-in frontpage post at least, an apology in an appropriate forum thread (if they would finally allow one) would be another matter ofcourse. It wouldn't surprise me if Patriek decided to take all his MSX related sites offline and turn his back on the community completely. It would be quite a loss to the entire community, so I really hope he won't do that. That would be soo like... er... ah, let's not go that way. Let's just say that if that were to happen, I'd think it were pretty hypocrite. ~Grauw -- Ushiko-san! Kimi wa doushite, Ushiko-san!! ___ MSX mailing list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Info page: http://lists.stack.nl/mailman/listinfo/msx
Re: [MSX] MSX Resource Center
Hello everyone, First of all, I would like to thank those who offered their support to me. The problem I have with MRC is that they have, on more than one occasion, lied to me, discriminated against me, and (ab)used me. When confronted with these matters, they ignore me. Emails were ignored, forum posts were ignored and/or removed... Only when I started making some fuss, MRC offered to solve the problems, but when I posted 3 days later nothing had happened, they immediately wrote an email in which they retracted the offer to solve things. Their email states: (quote) Live with it. (end quote) I agree this is mainly (but not completely) a private matter, but I have swallowed my pride often enough for the interest of MRC and the MSX scene. All I ask for is a decent, humane treatment from MRC, for which I have done so much. If it was possible to solve this privately, I would have preferred that, but regretfully MRC closed that road. On the other hand, this concerns the entire MSX community, which has become so dependant of MRC. If MRC does not contact me within the next few days to solve this in one way or another, I will write and post a complete history of events, including all the details. You will then know the true MRC, and you will be able to make a fair judgement. Again, it is with the deepest regret I undertake these steps. Some MRC crewmembers I consider my (close) friends, so I hope you can imagine the extend of the impact this makes. Sincerely, Patriek ___ MSX mailing list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Info page: http://lists.stack.nl/mailman/listinfo/msx
Re: [MSX] MSX Resource Center
At 15:02 3-5-04 , you wrote: Albert Beevendorp wrote: This is really way below the belt. Patriek does more for the MSX Community than you can imagine and at moments like these the only thing you can do is be negative about him without forgetting all the positive he has done already and will do for the community. Well, I think that apart from Herbert's post, the others raised valid points/opinions. And after all, GuyveR800 *did* choose to throw this in the open, and then you then can't expect everyone to agree with that (as long as they don't start swearing - oops -_-;;). Even though it was sent as a reaction on GuyveR800's post, it was meant to be a general reaction on the reactions to his post. Sorry if that seemed to differ. I don't expect people to agree, but IMHO it sucks when GuyveR800 decides to put something like this in the open, reactions tend to point more to the negative side of GuyveR800 while the forget about the positive things he did. GreeTz, BiFi Visit my Home Page at www.bifi.msxnet.org mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FTP: ftp.bifi.msxnet.org ICQ #36126979 ___ MSX mailing list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Info page: http://lists.stack.nl/mailman/listinfo/msx
Re: [MSX] MSX Resource Center
At 13:55 3-5-04 , you wrote: I think he meant the MAP, which is actually by me :). And me and, even though not yet as much as he wants to, Frederik Boelens (aka Chaos). Sorry, just had to complete it. GreeTz, BiFi Visit my Home Page at www.bifi.msxnet.org mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FTP: ftp.bifi.msxnet.org ICQ #36126979 ___ MSX mailing list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Info page: http://lists.stack.nl/mailman/listinfo/msx
Re: [MSX] MSX Resource Center
Albert Beevendorp wrote: I think he meant the MAP, which is actually by me :). And me and, even though not yet as much as he wants to, Frederik Boelens (aka Chaos). Sorry, just had to complete it. Right. Pardon me :). I just woke up when I wrote that ;p. ~Grauw -- Ushiko-san! Kimi wa doushite, Ushiko-san!! ___ MSX mailing list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Info page: http://lists.stack.nl/mailman/listinfo/msx
RE: [MSX] MSX Resource Center
Even though it was sent as a reaction on GuyveR800's post, it was meant to be a general reaction on the reactions to his post. Sorry if that seemed to differ. I don't expect people to agree, but IMHO it sucks when GuyveR800 decides to put something like this in the open, reactions tend to point more to the negative side of GuyveR800 while the forget about the positive things he did. GreeTz, BiFi It is a sign of childish behaviour, that when you can not settle differences with a specific group, MRC in this case, you start venting it on all other non-related forums, lists and newsgroups. That is incredibly childish and immature. Even the way Patriek seems to have to resort to threatening to quit, indicates an ineptitude to handle the situation. Any mature and complete person would have said:I'm the bigger man, and I will put this aside me. But no, he starts rampaging around on every forum, list and NG he can think of, bleating like a wounded sheep how wronged he is. Well, fine, but that's not going to solve the problem he has with ONE specific group. And if that group hurts him so bad, why continue going there? Slight symptoms of masochistic tendencies? ;-) No matter what he has done, I gather also from his reactions to my post, that his personality is more the problem than his contributions. If you act like a jerk, people will not appreciate you as an individual, regardles of what you do. I've seen that happen many times before. People who act childish will never be treated as equals. ___ MSX mailing list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Info page: http://lists.stack.nl/mailman/listinfo/msx
RE: [MSX] MSX Resource Center
Herbert Ackermans wrote: That is incredibly childish and immature. Even the way Patriek seems to have to resort to threatening to quit, indicates an ineptitude to handle the situation. Pardon? Where have I resort[ed] to threatening to quit? I have done no such thing, even though, surprisingly, it has been mentioned as a possibility by others. Well, fine, but that's not going to solve the problem he has with ONE specific group. Since this group is so entangled with the MSX community, the way it treats its users and people in general is very much everyone's business. Not doing anything, like you suggest, does not solve the problem either. Furthermore, the comments you make about my personality, and the way you make them, say more about you than me. Patriek. ___ MSX mailing list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Info page: http://lists.stack.nl/mailman/listinfo/msx
Re: [MSX] MSX Resource Center
At 16:54 3-5-04 , you wrote: Right. Pardon me :). I just woke up when I wrote that ;p. Ah... No problem. GreeTz, BiFi Visit my Home Page at www.bifi.msxnet.org mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FTP: ftp.bifi.msxnet.org ICQ #36126979 ___ MSX mailing list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Info page: http://lists.stack.nl/mailman/listinfo/msx
Re: [MSX] MSX Resource Center
Herbert Ackermans wrote: It is a sign of childish behaviour, that when you can not settle differences with a specific group, MRC in this case, you start venting it on all other non-related forums, lists and newsgroups. I would agree with that I don't think this is the best way to go. On the other hand, the MRC itself basically silenced him so on the one place where this would be considered on-topic is not an option. Besides, your initial reply wasn't very mature either. That is incredibly childish and immature. Even the way Patriek seems to have to resort to threatening to quit, Oh? Where? Any mature and complete person would have said:I'm the bigger man, and I will put this aside me. Alas, this is not true. May I remind you of the recent case in Dutch politics, where Pronk called sending asile seekers home 'deportation', and ministre Verdonk subsequently refused to talk to him and his foundation until he resigned? As you see, grown men, mature and complete persons (I hope, as one of them is reigning our country and the other used to), yet still engaging in a public mudfight about one word (which wasn't at all that much off reality, people don't leave their country and homes for the fun of it. But that's a different topic :))... Seriously, if you think this is truely the case, you must be pretty blind to reality. This happens all the time, just read the newspaper (and the tabloids :)), and disagreements between groups have also always been part of MSX history. And as I said before, not everyone employs the same amount of tact. It is human nature. Live with it. Well, fine, but that's not going to solve the problem he has with ONE specific group. I think you are probably right on that. That's why I expressed some doubt. However, on the other hand posting about it in a public forum also makes sense. If he alone says to the MRC that their policy sucks, nothing will change. If there are other people who agree with that however, they can make a 'front'. Maybe the MRC will then see that it is not 'just' Guyver. It is frustrating to see something which is not right, and having to stand alone in making a case of it. I experienced that myself a few years ago at my work (although I did get my way in the end - somewhat :)). It was especially annoying to see that others raised the *exact* same objections a year later. 'Why didn't they say so when it concerned *me*!', was my general line of thought. And as it is a matter which concerns the prime MSX forum and news site's policy and application of censorship, I would agree it is definately an issue that concerns 'the public'. And if that group hurts him so bad, why continue going there? Slight symptoms of masochistic tendencies? ;-) The MRC is the center of most MSX related news and discussion nowadays. Stop frequenting the MRC basically means isolating yourself from the MSX community. So don't make such a thing sound like a trivial decision. ~Grauw -- Ushiko-san! Kimi wa doushite, Ushiko-san!! ___ MSX mailing list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Info page: http://lists.stack.nl/mailman/listinfo/msx
RE: [MSX] MSX Resource Center
Herbert Ackermans wrote: It is a sign of childish behaviour, that when you can not settle differences with a specific group, MRC in this case, you start venting it on all other non-related forums, lists and newsgroups. I would agree with that I don't think this is the best way to go. On the other hand, the MRC itself basically silenced him so on the one place where this would be considered on-topic is not an option. Besides, your initial reply wasn't very mature either. Well, it's just that there's always so many individuals who cry bloody murder when they feel wronged, and start venting it at every medium they can. That is incredibly childish and immature. Even the way Patriek seems to have to resort to threatening to quit, Oh? Where? His initial response: People like you make me want to stop doing so much for the community... Any mature and complete person would have said:I'm the bigger man, and I will put this aside me. Alas, this is not true. May I remind you of the recent case in Dutch politics, where Pronk called sending asile seekers home 'deportation', and ministre Verdonk subsequently refused to talk to him and his foundation until he resigned? As you see, grown men, mature and complete persons (I hope, as one of them is reigning our country and the other used to), yet still engaging in a public mudfight about one word (which wasn't at all that much off reality, people don't leave their country and homes for the fun of it. But that's a different topic :))... Hmmm, Politics do not immediately make one great. If there is any platform where people can act childish, it's Politics. Seriously, if you think this is truely the case, you must be pretty blind to reality. This happens all the time, just read the newspaper (and the tabloids :)), and disagreements between groups have also always been part of MSX history. And as I said before, not everyone employs the same amount of tact. It is human nature. Live with it. Very true. Well, fine, but that's not going to solve the problem he has with ONE specific group. I think you are probably right on that. That's why I expressed some doubt. However, on the other hand posting about it in a public forum also makes sense. If he alone says to the MRC that their policy sucks, nothing will change. If there are other people who agree with that however, they can make a 'front'. Maybe the MRC will then see that it is not 'just' Guyver. And seeing as that did not happen apparently on MRC justifies his actions on numerous other forums, list and NGs? Does it really? If you have a problem with your neighbour, how acceptible is it, to go around to other people in the street and start spilling your grieves there? Or if you start hanging up posters accusing your neighbours? People often take the stance that the internet is different than normal life. And looking to form a front... What is this? World War 3? It is frustrating to see something which is not right, and having to stand alone in making a case of it. Maybe you are wrong then? I experienced that myself a few years ago at my work (although I did get my way in the end - somewhat :)). It was especially annoying to see that others raised the *exact* same objections a year later. 'Why didn't they say so when it concerned *me*!', was my general line of thought. Oh it happens so often. Don't you think the way the government handles the economy is not the most ideal way to do it? Everyone will have the same view, and we express it as well. And as it is a matter which concerns the prime MSX forum and news site's policy and application of censorship, I would agree it is definately an issue that concerns 'the public'. Why not make a second site and forum as counterweight? That's a whole lot more effective then trying to split the community. Obviously, there are people who are more than happy with the MRC. Trying to split it, will result in fights and such. And if that group hurts him so bad, why continue going there? Slight symptoms of masochistic tendencies? ;-) The MRC is the center of most MSX related news and discussion nowadays. Bad thing. Stop frequenting the MRC basically means isolating yourself from the MSX community. So don't make such a thing sound like a trivial decision. In essence, it is trivial. Is the MRC really the only place? Really? If so, you are all really hypocrits for now stepping forward and accusing them of dictatorial behaviour. You should have made sure that the power wasn't concentrated that way. Which is how monopolistic, dictatorial issues rise. People will support that one site, contribute, and all of a sudden, it's the monster from hell. Again, bleeting like a wounded lamb isn't the way to go. Being the better man, and making your case in another way, for instance, a new group, makes a lot more sense. Since Patriek
RE: [MSX] MSX Resource Center
Just like you, Patriek, I often do not approve what the MRC crew does, but I do appreciate the huge work that they are doing for the MSX community. Just as you do too -I mean with your constructive posts, not with the others-. Different opinions, as we all know, are necessary to improve discussions. MRC has on more than one occasion lied to me, falsely accused me, and portrayed me as a troublemaker (both to people in MRC itself and publicly). All I want is a public apology and full rehabilitation. I hardly agree with that. Look here: http://www.msx.org/newspost1887.html As everybody can see, you were insulting Sjoerd and me with no reasons, just to defend your outdated version of TNIasm. I asked the moderators to stop it, but no. Even the post wasn't edited. It is not my intention to continue this war, because it is not mine. I think that MRC should not use its censorship powers, and I also think that only opinions and facts, but not attacks, should be posted there. Anyway, Guyver, as I said in other messages, I do sincerely appreciate your worth contributions to the MSX community, but I think that sometimes your deffend your opinions in a rather unpolite way. MSX was a standard born to unify programs. Let's use it to join forces, not to divide. Regards, Ed Robsy _ ¿Dónde se esconden [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Encuentra miles de perfiles en MSN Amor Amistad. http://match.msn.es/ ___ MSX mailing list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Info page: http://lists.stack.nl/mailman/listinfo/msx
RE: [MSX] MSX Resource Center
Herbert Ackermans wrote: That is incredibly childish and immature. Even the way Patriek seems to have to resort to threatening to quit, Oh? Where? His initial response: People like you make me want to stop doing so much for the community... Interpreting that as a threat to quit is pulling it out of context. I can assure you I have no such plans, even if I sometimes wonder why the hell I'm doing it all... And seeing as that did not happen apparently on MRC justifies his actions on numerous other forums, list and NGs? Does it really? Pardon? I posted my message here, and on the comp.sys.msx newsgroup. Is that numerous? No, it's two. If you have a problem with your neighbour, how acceptible is it, to go around to other people in the street and start spilling your grieves there? This cannot be compared to a problem with neighbours. It could be compared to a problem with government, and people do protest on public forums about that. And looking to form a front... What is this? World War 3? If you think I'm trying to form a front, you're badly mistaken. Why not make a second site and forum as counterweight? That's a whole lot more effective then trying to split the community. Obviously, there are people who are more than happy with the MRC. Trying to split it, will result in fights and such. Don't you think a second site and forum consitutes a split community? The MRC is the center of most MSX related news and discussion nowadays. Bad thing. *snip* Since Patriek has enough to go by, I wouldn't be surprised if he would get lots of support and help when he would go and establish a new community. Now you're talking :) I've actually been playing with this idea for a few months. Originally I wanted to contribute my ideas (and even implement them) to MRC, but obviously that's not gonna work out. If he truly wants to make a change, than make it, don't talk about it, make it. Unfortunately, I'm limited in my time, due to MSX projects I consider more important. However, contacts have been made, things are in motion. Patriek. ___ MSX mailing list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Info page: http://lists.stack.nl/mailman/listinfo/msx
RE: [MSX] MSX Resource Center
Ed Robsy wrote: As everybody can see, you were insulting Sjoerd and me with no reasons *snip* Anyway, Guyver, as I said in other messages, I do sincerely appreciate your worth contributions to the MSX community, but I think that sometimes your deffend your opinions in a rather unpolite way. I'll refer you to my post of March 27th called [MSX] Public apology. It's up to you what you make of it. Patriek. ___ MSX mailing list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Info page: http://lists.stack.nl/mailman/listinfo/msx
Re: [MSX] MSX Resource Center [ FAF ]
Eric Boon wrote: PS. FAF ruled ;-) Makes me think of the FAF demo we made on FDD #2, shooting the Fac SoundTracker disk ;). You know we also made a FAF-Virus? Never released it though. Don't think people would have appreciated it... TFH http://www.file-hunter.com ___ MSX mailing list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Info page: http://lists.stack.nl/mailman/listinfo/msx
Re[2]: [MSX] MSX Resource Center
And MEP? Sorry.. MEP was by me, not by Patriek. I think you mean GEM? Ha-ha, my mistake, sir! I was reffering to excellent, but stale http://map.tni.nl/ site ___ MSX mailing list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Info page: http://lists.stack.nl/mailman/listinfo/msx
[MSX] MSX Bicycle Center
Stop discussing for nonsenses! Today something REALLY bad has happened to me! Someone robbed my bicycle while I was working... now I must spend 200 or more on a new one, and in the mean time I must use train and bus for going to my job place, which is expensive and slow... (ToT) *** XXV MSX USERS MEETING IN BARCELONA: MAY 1st 2004 *** - Konami Man - AKA Nestor Soriano (^^)v http://www.konamiman.com- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ#: 18281450 Be conservative in what you send and liberal in what you receive - ___ MSX mailing list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Info page: http://lists.stack.nl/mailman/listinfo/msx
Re: [MSX] MSX Resource Center
GuyveR800 is respected within the MRC-team as being our most active member on the MRC-forums. We highly appreciate his contributions to our site. In February 2004, we moderated a reaction to a newspost from GuyveR800. He didn't agree with this moderation and decided to start flaming the moderator, instead of contacting us to sort things out. After playing a public cat-and-mouse-game of posting and deleting flames, we decided to ban GuyveR800 from the MRC for a week. During this ban, GuyveR800 sent in a 'Join Our Team'-request. We've had many internal discussions about his submission and eventually, we decided to decline his request because we think GuyveR800 isn't the teamplayer the MRC needs. Ever since, we have a conflict with GuyveR800. We believe we've soundly based our decision towards GuyveR800, but he believes we didn't. After the Tilburg fair, we've sat down with GuyveR800 on a terrace in the Tilburg city centre and offered him a drink in the hope to sort things out once and for all. We exchanged opinions and in the end, GuyveR800 said he understood our decision, but he labels it as cowardly. He told us he only had one option left and that is to start a new MSX community site. With this, for us, the case was closed. We encourage new MSX activities and we also believe the MSX scene mustn't rely too much on one single website. In other words, we're optimistic about GuyveR800 his ideas. Unfortunately, GuyveR800 obviously has decided to flare up the commotion. In our opinion, action leads to reaction and escalation. We thought we agreed to disagree and we believe it is of no use to continue the conversations with GuyveR800 regarding this subject. We stick to our points of view and so does GuyveR800 to his. Why waste more energy? The MSX Resource Center is a hobby site, not a company. We are not professionals but only enthusiastic amateurs. We're doing the things we do because we enjoy MSX and we care about MSX. We're running the MRC in our spare time which means there is quite some pressure on the site already. As mentioned above, we encourage new MSX initiatives and therefor we sincerely hope GuyveR800 will find the time and the people needed to create a healthy continuous MSX community site. We wish him all the best and hope for positive cooperation in the future. The MSX Resource Center Team Sander van Nunen Anne de Raad Bart Schouten Rieks Warendorp Torringa Sander Zuidema ___ MSX mailing list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Info page: http://lists.stack.nl/mailman/listinfo/msx
