RE: v9938 databook...
I have a pretty good photocopy (at least most of it is pretty good...)
I'll take it with me to Tilburg. Where can I find you?
On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Hans Otten wrote:
Yes, with the right software (Finereader for example) ocr scanning is a very
mature solution of getting text into editable format again.
But you need quality scans or the original paper and a scanner. The 9938
scans made by Sean Young are too low quality for ocr software.
So if someone has good scans or good original or photocopies...
Hans
---
/** mastermind. input 4 numbers 0-5. output right.in the right place **/
main(){int c[4] ,x=3 ,l=getpid() ,i;; for( srand(l);c[ x]=- rand
()%6 ,x-- ;);; for( ;44 x;){ char a[9] ,*p=
"%.1f\n", b[9];x=i=0; gets(a);for (l=4 ;l-- ;)x+=-(a[l] -=48)==
(b[l ]=c[ l]); ;for (l=0;16i;l =++i %4)x
+=(b[i/4]+ a[l] ?0:( a[l]=b[i/4] =10)) ;printf(p,x *.1) ;};}
--
For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: v9938 databook...
Laurens Holst wrote:
I am manually entering the contents of the v9938 databook into a textfile.
just to let you know, in case someone else is also doing this.
current progress: page 11 of 161 (bareuh...).
This sounds like a very good initiative. But it will take a lot of (your)
time. Isn't there good software nowadays to read graphics into text (I
think it's called OCR or something, but I never used it) ? It may be worth
checking out...
Bye,
shevek
---
/** mastermind. input 4 numbers 0-5. output right.in the right place **/
main(){int c[4] ,x=3 ,l=getpid() ,i;; for( srand(l);c[ x]=- rand
()%6 ,x-- ;);; for( ;44 x;){ char a[9] ,*p=
"%.1f\n", b[9];x=i=0; gets(a);for (l=4 ;l-- ;)x+=-(a[l] -=48)==
(b[l ]=c[ l]); ;for (l=0;16i;l =++i %4)x
+=(b[i/4]+ a[l] ?0:( a[l]=b[i/4] =10)) ;printf(p,x *.1) ;};}
--
For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
RE: v9938 databook...
Yes, with the right software (Finereader for example) ocr scanning is a very
mature solution of getting text into editable format again.
But you need quality scans or the original paper and a scanner. The 9938
scans made by Sean Young are too low quality for ocr software.
So if someone has good scans or good original or photocopies...
Hans
-Original Message-
From: B. Wijnen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 09:06
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: v9938 databook...
Laurens Holst wrote:
I am manually entering the contents of the v9938 databook into a textfile.
just to let you know, in case someone else is also doing this.
current progress: page 11 of 161 (bareuh...).
This sounds like a very good initiative. But it will take a lot of (your)
time. Isn't there good software nowadays to read graphics into text (I
think it's called OCR or something, but I never used it) ? It may be worth
checking out...
Bye,
shevek
---
/** mastermind. input 4 numbers 0-5. output right.in the right place **/
main(){int c[4] ,x=3 ,l=getpid() ,i;; for( srand(l);c[ x]=- rand
()%6 ,x-- ;);; for( ;44 x;){ char a[9] ,*p=
"%.1f\n", b[9];x=i=0; gets(a);for (l=4 ;l-- ;)x+=-(a[l] -=48)==
(b[l ]=c[ l]); ;for (l=0;16i;l =++i %4)x
+=(b[i/4]+ a[l] ?0:( a[l]=b[i/4] =10)) ;printf(p,x *.1) ;};}
--
For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
--
For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
RE: v9938 databook scanned: PDF online
The PDF version of the V9938 Technical databook is online. Based on the scans made by Sean Young I have created a PDF file. As much as possible the scans were converted to black and white, the pages that became unreadable are the original scans. The result is a PDF file of about 3Mb, which can be found at: http://ganymede.spaceports.com/~hansmsx/ Hans -Original Message- From: Sean Young [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 17:32 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: v9938 databook scanned On Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 05:50:26AM +0200, JP Grobler wrote: Here is the v9938 databook in (word?) format: http://ieee.d.umn.edu/~bsprange/files/v9938.doc it is a 37M download, but it is there! It is ons the page of Brian Spranger. He is building a games station. http://ieee.d.umn.edu/~bsprange/ That's a word version of my scans. I sent him the first scan I made, 36MB of .tif files (straight from the scanner). It's same stuff as the scans on my homepage, but at a higher colour depth. All .tif files where converted to .png with ImageMagick: convert -colors 4 page.tif page.png So it's the same stuff -- higher colour depth so really no better. Sean -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
RE: v9938 databook scanned
In my view, all we really need is someone to convert the scans into a single pdf file, so v9938.pdf can be viewed in Acrobat Reader. Most of the other MSX datasheets are in this format. Richard -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
RE: v9938 databook scanned
Oh, that is easy. I volunteer. Hans -Original Message- From: Richard Atkinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 21 February 2001 19:49 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: v9938 databook scanned In my view, all we really need is someone to convert the scans into a single pdf file, so v9938.pdf can be viewed in Acrobat Reader. Most of the other MSX datasheets are in this format. Richard -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: v9938 databook scanned
On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:18:01 +0100, you wrote: When the ocr program converted the picture to black and white i could even see fingerprints. With this original using ocr will be a task. So much for the lossless compression with PNG. Enlarged, I also noticed that the characters are not sharp enough to be recognized by my OCR program (Iris). No really, nothing but space is lost by the conversion to 256 color JPG. Pierre -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: v9938 databook scanned
So much for the lossless compression with PNG. Enlarged, I also noticed that the characters are not sharp enough to be recognized by my OCR program (Iris). No really, nothing but space is lost by the That's not the fault of the PNG format, but of the too low resolution scans. conversion to 256 color JPG. Nope, it will be worse. You will throw away even more information. (Apart from the informatiin that was thrown away by taking a too low resolution.) Grtjs, Manuel PS: MSX 4 EVER! (Questions? The Ultimate MSX FAQ: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/) PPS: Visit my home page at http://bilderbeek.cjb.net/ -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
RE: v9938 databook scanned
I agree, jpg is not the format you want for line art and text scans. There you want a black and white lossless format. Not popular,here, but GIF is very convenient in size. I did convert all PNG pictures to GIF and that made it to the previously mentioned 1.8 Mb. TIFF is also good. Hans -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: v9938 databook scanned
I agree, jpg is not the format you want for line art and text scans. There you want a black and white lossless format. Not popular,here, but GIF is very convenient in size. I did convert all PNG pictures to GIF and that made it to the previously mentioned 1.8 Mb. TIFF is also good. Hans, can you try to OCR the images that are in that file mentioned by JP Grobler? I checked that .doc file, and it seems to be a Word file with only images in it. Maybe there the resolution is better to perform OCR. The URL was: http://ieee.d.umn.edu/~bsprange/files/v9938.doc On Brian Spranger's site is also the PSG Technical Databook. But that one is on msx2.com already too. It would be cool to have that V9938 technical Data Book on msx2.com too! :) Grtjs, Manuel PS: MSX 4 EVER! (Questions? The Ultimate MSX FAQ: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/) PPS: Visit my home page at http://bilderbeek.cjb.net/ -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: v9938 databook scanned
On Wed, Feb 21, 2001 at 11:06:46PM +0100, Hans Otten wrote: I started converting to PDF by converting all files from PNG color format tot black and white. The resulting sum shrinks to 1.8 Mbyte. What's the colordepth? 1 bit? Sean -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
RE: v9938 databook scanned
Yes, one bit is 2 colors. -Original Message- From: Sean Young [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 22 February 2001 16:32 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: v9938 databook scanned On Wed, Feb 21, 2001 at 11:06:46PM +0100, Hans Otten wrote: I started converting to PDF by converting all files from PNG color format tot black and white. The resulting sum shrinks to 1.8 Mbyte. What's the colordepth? 1 bit? Sean -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
RE: v9938 databook scanned
Yes, i will try. Tomorrow i will download the doc file, ISDN is too slow. At work a 2Mb line is better! Hans -Original Message- From: Manuel Bilderbeek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 22 February 2001 16:01 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: v9938 databook scanned I agree, jpg is not the format you want for line art and text scans. There you want a black and white lossless format. Not popular,here, but GIF is very convenient in size. I did convert all PNG pictures to GIF and that made it to the previously mentioned 1.8 Mb. TIFF is also good. Hans, can you try to OCR the images that are in that file mentioned by JP Grobler? I checked that .doc file, and it seems to be a Word file with only images in it. Maybe there the resolution is better to perform OCR. The URL was: http://ieee.d.umn.edu/~bsprange/files/v9938.doc On Brian Spranger's site is also the PSG Technical Databook. But that one is on msx2.com already too. It would be cool to have that V9938 technical Data Book on msx2.com too! :) Grtjs, Manuel PS: MSX 4 EVER! (Questions? The Ultimate MSX FAQ: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/) PPS: Visit my home page at http://bilderbeek.cjb.net/ -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: v9938 databook scanned
Yes, i will try. Tomorrow i will download the doc file, ISDN is too slow. At work a 2Mb line is better! Hans, thanks in advance for your great efforts. Sean and Brian too of course. :) Grtjs, Manuel PS: MSX 4 EVER! (Questions? The Ultimate MSX FAQ: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/) PPS: Visit my home page at http://bilderbeek.cjb.net/ -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: v9938 databook scanned
On Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 05:16:54PM +0100, Hans Otten wrote: On Wed, Feb 21, 2001 at 11:06:46PM +0100, Hans Otten wrote: I started converting to PDF by converting all files from PNG color format tot black and white. The resulting sum shrinks to 1.8 Mbyte. What's the colordepth? 1 bit? Yes, one bit is 2 colors. (fixed non-standard layout of reply) But if it's 1 bit (monochrome) many pages are unreadable. Note that the actual book I have is rather dirty, and the scanner is crap aswell. All old stuff. Sean -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: v9938 databook scanned
On Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 05:50:26AM +0200, JP Grobler wrote: Here is the v9938 databook in (word?) format: http://ieee.d.umn.edu/~bsprange/files/v9938.doc it is a 37M download, but it is there! It is ons the page of Brian Spranger. He is building a games station. http://ieee.d.umn.edu/~bsprange/ That's a word version of my scans. I sent him the first scan I made, 36MB of .tif files (straight from the scanner). It's same stuff as the scans on my homepage, but at a higher colour depth. All .tif files where converted to .png with ImageMagick: convert -colors 4 page.tif page.png So it's the same stuff -- higher colour depth so really no better. Sean -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: v9938 databook scanned
HI Here is the v9938 databook in (word?) format: http://ieee.d.umn.edu/~bsprange/files/v9938.doc it is a 37M download, but it is there! It is ons the page of Brian Spranger. He is building a games station. http://ieee.d.umn.edu/~bsprange/ PS I only found the url! JP Grobler [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
RE: v9938 databook scanned
I started converting to PDF by converting all files from PNG color format tot black and white. The resulting sum shrinks to 1.8 Mbyte. Now the next step (this weekend..) is to create a pdf which i estimate to shrink to 1Mb. I will keep you informed. Hans -Original Message- From: Hans Otten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 21 February 2001 19:53 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: v9938 databook scanned Oh, that is easy. I volunteer. Hans -Original Message- From: Richard Atkinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 21 February 2001 19:49 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: v9938 databook scanned In my view, all we really need is someone to convert the scans into a single pdf file, so v9938.pdf can be viewed in Acrobat Reader. Most of the other MSX datasheets are in this format. Richard -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
RE: v9938 databook scanned
I tried it on a page from the scans made by Sean. I used Finereader PRO 5, one of the best OCR programs around, i am used to 100% errorfree ocr results with this program. Not on this scan, the error rate was quite high. Too low a resolution (300 dpi is adequate) and it is is a low quality color scan and not a high contrast black and white. When the ocr program converted the picture to black and white i could even see fingerprints. With this original using ocr will be a task. But with a better quality scan (by preference directly from the ocr program) it can be done in a reasonable tiem, ocr programs are quie good in not only chracter recognition but also keeping the layout intact. Not that i am ungrateful, far from that. I appreciate very much the work put in the scans by Sean. -Original Message- From: Ricardo Jurczyk Pinheiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 21 February 2001 04:07 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: v9938 databook scanned Em sex, 16 fev 2001, Sean Young escreveu: JPG is meant for photographs and nothing else. (Stuff with smooth color gradients.) Why not 256 color (or even BW) GIFs? GIFs are evil. From http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/ : (...) Sorry, I forgot that "little problem" with GIFs. =) Well, I think it'd be interesting to use an OCR program to convert all PNG files to text. -- Ricardo Jurczyk Pinheiro - M. Sc. Numerical Modelling - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - 3635907 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Anime, ABU, MSX, Linux, Gospel, ST, Rock, Math Sola Scriptura - Sola Gratia - Sola Fide - Solo Christi - Soli Deo Gloria Time heals all wounds, but the belly button remains. -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: v9938 databook scanned
Em sex, 16 fev 2001, Sean Young escreveu: JPG is meant for photographs and nothing else. (Stuff with smooth color gradients.) Why not 256 color (or even BW) GIFs? GIFs are evil. From http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/ : (...) Sorry, I forgot that "little problem" with GIFs. =) Well, I think it'd be interesting to use an OCR program to convert all PNG files to text. -- Ricardo Jurczyk Pinheiro - M. Sc. Numerical Modelling - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - 3635907 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Anime, ABU, MSX, Linux, Gospel, ST, Rock, Math Sola Scriptura - Sola Gratia - Sola Fide - Solo Christi - Soli Deo Gloria Time heals all wounds, but the belly button remains. -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: v9938 databook scanned
] ``PNG was designed to be the successor to the once-popular GIF format, which ] became decidedly less popular right around New Year's Day 1995 when Unisys and ] CompuServe suddenly announced that programs implementing GIF would require ] royalties, because of Unisys' patent on the LZW compression method used in GIF.'' ] ] Note that this is only for writing GIFs, not reading. Basically you need ] to pay Unisys 5000 US$ (IIRC) if you want to make gif files. Also note that this is only applicable in countries that recognize the LZW patent (like the US). Most European countries do not recognize it. Amongst others because the LZW algorithm was published (in a scientific magazin) a year before the patent was requested. And in Europe it is impossible to get a patent for an already published algorithm. Kind regards, Alex Wulms -- Visit The MSX Plaza (http://www.inter.nl.net/users/A.P.Wulms) for info on XelaSoft, Merlasoft, Quadrivium, SD-Snatcher on fMSX, the MSX Hardware list, XSA Disk images, documentation, Japanese MSX news from Ikeda and lots more. -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: v9938 databook scanned
On Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:27:58 +0100, you wrote: I'ts 13MB, zipped png files. Hi Sean, You can get half the size by converting the PNG files tot 256 color JPG files and then putting them in a RAR archive. (6.868.605 bytes). Another advantage is that you can view JPG's on your MSX. Bye, Pierre -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: v9938 databook scanned
png = lossless, jpg = lossy with text this matters a lot. later, Tam Pierre Gielen schreef: On Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:27:58 +0100, you wrote: I'ts 13MB, zipped png files. Hi Sean, You can get half the size by converting the PNG files tot 256 color JPG files and then putting them in a RAR archive. (6.868.605 bytes). Another advantage is that you can view JPG's on your MSX. Bye, Pierre -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: v9938 databook scanned
png = lossless, jpg = lossy JPG is meant for photographs and nothing else. (Stuff with smooth color gradients.) with text this matters a lot. Yup. Maybe TIFF would be better, it features compression and lacks the copyright problems of GIF. Another advantage is that you can view JPG's on your MSX. You don't want that, it takes forever! :) Especially when you consider to read those docs, you don't want to do that on MSX from JPG files. Grtjs, Manuel PS: MSX 4 EVER! (Questions? See: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/) PPS: Visit my home page at http://bilderbeek.cjb.net/ -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: v9938 databook scanned
On Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 03:04:55PM +0100, Manuel Bilderbeek wrote: png = lossless, jpg = lossy JPG is meant for photographs and nothing else. (Stuff with smooth color gradients.) with text this matters a lot. Yup. Maybe TIFF would be better, it features compression and lacks the copyright problems of GIF. Another advantage is that you can view JPG's on your MSX. You don't want that, it takes forever! :) Especially when you consider to read those docs, you don't want to do that on MSX from JPG files. Grtjs, Manuel PS: MSX 4 EVER! (Questions? See: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/) PPS: Visit my home page at http://bilderbeek.cjb.net/ .png uses zlib compression and allows you to set a compression rate. (e.g. in the gimp) It is also an open and standardized format. - Joost -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: v9938 databook scanned
On Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 03:04:55PM +0100, Manuel Bilderbeek wrote: png = lossless, jpg = lossy JPG is meant for photographs and nothing else. (Stuff with smooth color gradients.) with text this matters a lot. Yup. Maybe TIFF would be better, it features compression and lacks the copyright problems of GIF. The scanner produced .tiff files, which were 36MB zipped. AFAIK you really can't beat the compression of .png -- it does far more than just compress it with zlib. Another advantage is that you can view JPG's on your MSX. You don't want that, it takes forever! :) Especially when you consider to read those docs, you don't want to do that on MSX from JPG files. A plain ascii version would be nice. Then we can also add things and correct mistakes. It's must faster to download and easy to read on an MSX. Nothing wrong with plain text IMHO. :-) Sean -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: v9938 databook scanned
A plain ascii version would be nice. Then we can also add things and correct mistakes. It's must faster to download and easy to read on an MSX. Nothing wrong with plain text IMHO. :-) Yep, please someone with time and OCR software: download it and process it to get a nice text file! :-) (Just like Kari did with the MSX Red Book, and Nestor with the MSX2 Technical Databook!) Grtjs, Manuel PS: MSX 4 EVER! (Questions? See: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/) PPS: Visit my home page at http://bilderbeek.cjb.net/ -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: v9938 databook scanned
Em sex, 16 fev 2001, Manuel Bilderbeek escreveu: png = lossless, jpg = lossy JPG is meant for photographs and nothing else. (Stuff with smooth color gradients.) Why not 256 color (or even BW) GIFs? -- Ricardo Jurczyk Pinheiro - M. Sc. Numerical Modelling - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - 3635907 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Anime, ABU, MSX, Linux, Gospel, ST, Rock, Math Sola Scriptura - Sola Gratia - Sola Fide - Solo Christi - Soli Deo Gloria If you want it done right, let do it. -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: v9938 databook scanned
On Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 03:27:09PM -0200, Ricardo Jurczyk Pinheiro wrote: Em sex, 16 fev 2001, Manuel Bilderbeek escreveu: png = lossless, jpg = lossy JPG is meant for photographs and nothing else. (Stuff with smooth color gradients.) Why not 256 color (or even BW) GIFs? GIFs are evil. From http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/ : ``PNG was designed to be the successor to the once-popular GIF format, which became decidedly less popular right around New Year's Day 1995 when Unisys and CompuServe suddenly announced that programs implementing GIF would require royalties, because of Unisys' patent on the LZW compression method used in GIF.'' Note that this is only for writing GIFs, not reading. Basically you need to pay Unisys 5000 US$ (IIRC) if you want to make gif files. Remember the ``burn all gifs day''. :-) Sean -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
