Re: mailbox list problem

2009-08-11 Thread Robert Holtzman
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 10:38:10AM -0500, Kyle Wheeler wrote:
 On Sunday, August  9 at 09:14 PM, quoth Robert Holtzman:
 The problem was that I stupidly modified the list of mail lists to  
 duplicate the list of mailboxes. When I went back and realized what I 
 had done I restored both lists from my backup (let's hear it for  
 backups!)and added the rkhunter and sounder lists. Now I'm getting  
 this error message:

 Error in /home/holtzm/.muttrc, line 298: +saved-slrn-user: unknown  
 command source: errors in /home/holtzm/.muttrc Press any key to 
 continue...

 Generally speaking, that means that you have a line that starts with  
 “+saved-slrn-usr”, rather than with a regular command.

 #mailboxes ! +mutt-dev +mutt-users +open-pgp +wmaker +hurricane +vim
 +ietf \
 287 #   +drums
 288
 289
 290 mailboxes ! +INCOMING +list-Chevelle +list-PLUG-discuss
 +list-alpine-info \
 291 +list-clamav +list-debian-users +list-exim-users
 +list-firefox-support \
 292 +list-gnupg-users +list-mondo-devel +list-mutt-users
 +list-openoffice-discuss \
 293 +list-openoffice-users +list-procmail +list-slrn-user
 +list-ubuntu-users +spam \
 294 +list-rkhunter +list-sounder +list+saved-alpine
 +saved-Chevelle +saved-clamav \
 295 +saved-debian-users +saved-firefox-support
 +saved-gnupg-users +saved-mondo-devel \
 296 +saved-mutt-users +saved-openoffice-users +saved-PLUG
 +saved-procmail \
 297 +saved-slrn-user +saved-ubuntu-users +saved-messages \
 298 #mailboxes `echo $HOME/Mail/*`

 Two things: first, I think you have a space at the end of line 295  
 (after the backslash), which breaks the line wrapping. Second, you told 
 mutt to connect lines 297 and 298 (with the backslash at the end), so 
 mutt identifies the whole line by it’s last line number.

That nailed it. I never would have caught it.


 The line wrapping is weird but you can follow it.

 When I get into trouble like that, I always first glue the wrapped lines 
 back together. You have no idea how often (or in how many different 
 programs) doing that has revealed to me that I had a simple  
 line-wrapping error, rather than some other problem.

That tip is worth a lot of beer if you're ever in the area.

 (Do you know what the + is there for?)

 As a matter of fact no. Explain, please.

 I thought not - lots of folks get tripped up by that. It’s actually a  
 shortcut for a mailbox specification. Both the + symbol and the = symbol 
 can be used when specifying a mailbox name as a shorthand for the value 
 of $folder.

 Think of it this way (I’m using example names here): the mailboxes  
 command expects FULL PATHS to mailboxes, like this:

 mailboxes /home/myname/mail/inbox /home/myname/mail/lists

 But that’s a lot to type, and can make the list of mailboxes hard to  
 read. BUT, you can do this instead:

 set folder=/home/myname/mail
 mailboxes +inbox +lists

 The equals sign is a synonym for the plus sign in this context, and can 
 be used as well, if you prefer it:

 set folder=/home/myname/mail
 mailboxes =inbox =lists

 This can be especially useful when using things like imap, where $folder 
 is something big and ugly like  
 “imaps://user:passw...@imap.server.com/INBOX”.


That's the kind of information I have never bee able to get running
searches and reading docs.

 What, specifically, are you trying to do? I mean, you can  
 literally start a www browser in an external program by doing  
 this:

  !firefox

 Not sure where in ~/.muttrc to put this.

 I didn’t say you put that in your muttrc, I said you’d “do” that, by  
 which I mean “this is a key sequence to press while running mutt.” 
 Sorry if I was unclear. By default, the exclamation mark (pressed 
 while mutt is running) tells mutt to get ready to run a shell 
 command. Once you press that, type in “firefox” (or whatever command 
 to launch a web browser), and hit return. That will cause mutt to run 
 that command.

 But that’s just a way to “launch a web browser”, not a way to send 
 URLs from your email to that browser.

 Pardon my seeming ingratitude but from your description, it doesn't 
 seem to do any more than if I switched workspaces, opened FF and pasted 
 in the url. Did I miss something?

 Nope, that’s exactly right. I didn’t quite understand what you were  
 trying to do, so that seemed as good an answer as any other.


I was hoping to duplicate slrn's capability of showing a menu with all
the urls in the message allowing you to highlight one and hit return.
That opens the browser in the ~/.slrnrc file and loads the selected url.

I ran across the urlscan package in the repository and installed it. The
description indicates that it is at least close to what I want. Haven't
had a chance to play with it yet.

I  noticed that I had inadvertantly replied directly to you a couple of
times instead of to the list. My apologies.

Many thanks for walking me thru all this. Coming 

Re: why is there no auto $ (save changes to mailbox)?

2009-08-11 Thread ed
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 09:23:59AM -0400, Marc Vaillant wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 I've been a happy mutt user for over a decade.  Of course there are a
 few minor features here and there that I wish mutt had.  The one that's
 really getting to me lately is that as far as I know, there is no
 automatic way to execute $.  i.e. save changes to mailbox.  This is
 particularly a problem for IMAP because losing your internet connection
 (e.g. sleeping your laptop) usually means losing mailbox changes.  If
 there is a mechanism for accomplishing this now please let me know.
 Otherwise, it seems natural for it to be an action during mail check?
 Shouldn't there be at least an auto save/recover mechanism? 

Hi,

Personally, I'd use screen :)

Best regards


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature


Re: why is there no auto $ (save changes to mailbox)?

2009-08-11 Thread Joost Kremers

ed schrieb:

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 09:23:59AM -0400, Marc Vaillant wrote:

particularly a problem for IMAP because losing your internet connection
(e.g. sleeping your laptop) usually means losing mailbox changes.


Personally, I'd use screen :)


which, however, doesn't solve the problem described... ;-P

--
Joost Kremers
Life has its moments


Re: why is there no auto $ (save changes to mailbox)?

2009-08-11 Thread Marc Vaillant
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 09:10:49AM +, ed wrote:
 On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 09:23:59AM -0400, Marc Vaillant wrote:
  Hi all,
  
  I've been a happy mutt user for over a decade.  Of course there are a
  few minor features here and there that I wish mutt had.  The one that's
  really getting to me lately is that as far as I know, there is no
  automatic way to execute $.  i.e. save changes to mailbox.  This is
  particularly a problem for IMAP because losing your internet connection
  (e.g. sleeping your laptop) usually means losing mailbox changes.  If
  there is a mechanism for accomplishing this now please let me know.
  Otherwise, it seems natural for it to be an action during mail check?
  Shouldn't there be at least an auto save/recover mechanism? 
 
 Hi,
 
 Personally, I'd use screen :)

I do use screen, but it doesn't help for this problem when you are
running mutt locally and not on a remote machine via ssh access.

Marc


Re: why is there no auto $ (save changes to mailbox)?

2009-08-11 Thread Marc Vaillant
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 07:26:57AM +0200, Rejo Zenger wrote:
 ++ 10/08/09 16:44 +0200 - Michael Tatge:
  there is no automatic way to execute $.  i.e. save changes to
  mailbox. This is particularly a problem for IMAP because losing your
  internet connection (e.g. sleeping your laptop) usually means losing
  mailbox changes.
 
 No, there isn't. And that's a good thing (TM). I don't want messages to
 be auto deleted.
 
 No messages will be auto deleted.
 
 The only thing that happens is that messages you earlier have marked as 
 to be deleted will be actually deleted. Or better, any changes you 
 have made to the status of the message is comitted. The behaviour 
 wouldn't be any different from exiting a mailbox or pressing $. 
 
 And, in the spirit of mutt, such a setting would be configurable. One 
 can turn it on or off and set the interval.
 
 I can't think of a reason why this would be bad (especialy if it's 
 configurable and the default is off). 

Thanks Rejo, I'm glad that I'm not the only one that would see this as a
valuable feature.  For now--per Michael's suggestion, I have covered
most of the cases with the following macros:

macro index return display-messagesync-mailbox
macro compose y send-messagesync-mailbox
macro pager q exitsync-mailbox

This doesn't cover N - O flag changes but at least I'm not losing reply
and read flags. 

Marc


Re: why is there no auto $ (save changes to mailbox)?

2009-08-11 Thread Rocco Rutte
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 07:26:57AM +0200, Rejo Zenger wrote:
 
 No messages will be auto deleted.
 
 The only thing that happens is that messages you earlier have marked as 
 to be deleted will be actually deleted. Or better, any changes you 
 have made to the status of the message is comitted. The behaviour 
 wouldn't be any different from exiting a mailbox or pressing $. 
 
 And, in the spirit of mutt, such a setting would be configurable. One 
 can turn it on or off and set the interval.
 
 I can't think of a reason why this would be bad (especialy if it's 
 configurable and the default is off). 

There're some good reasons not to do it and help people by making
it harder for them to shoot in their feet.

For eexample, you tag tag delete messages and cover messages you
didn't want, or have hooks like me that mark duplicates for duplication
which would delete valid mail automatically if I weren't paying
attention to them immediately. But when I have to care of the manually,
I just do the whole syncing business myself.

And yes, these messages are auto-deleted when the interval for
syncing is up...

Rocco


Re: why is there no auto $ (save changes to mailbox)?

2009-08-11 Thread Marc Vaillant
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 06:41:51PM +0200, Rocco Rutte wrote:
 On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 07:26:57AM +0200, Rejo Zenger wrote:
  
  No messages will be auto deleted.
  
  The only thing that happens is that messages you earlier have marked as 
  to be deleted will be actually deleted. Or better, any changes you 
  have made to the status of the message is comitted. The behaviour 
  wouldn't be any different from exiting a mailbox or pressing $. 
  
  And, in the spirit of mutt, such a setting would be configurable. One 
  can turn it on or off and set the interval.
  
  I can't think of a reason why this would be bad (especialy if it's 
  configurable and the default is off). 
 
 There're some good reasons not to do it and help people by making
 it harder for them to shoot in their feet.
 
 For eexample, you tag tag delete messages and cover messages you
 didn't want, or have hooks like me that mark duplicates for duplication
 which would delete valid mail automatically if I weren't paying
 attention to them immediately. But when I have to care of the manually,
 I just do the whole syncing business myself.

Can't this easily be controlled?  set delete=ask-yes.   If that's not
enough,  it suggests that deleting messages should be abstracted from
sync-mailbox so that you can sync flags and delete messages
independently.  Loosing reply flags on e.g. support email--where you
often can't remember if you've replied b/c you don't know the person and
you're answering the same question over and over--is really a pain. 

Marc


Malformed From: address in headers

2009-08-11 Thread Patrick Gen Paul
On the python-users mailing lists, there are posts from a user who
forges his From: email address to something like:

Joe User http://phr...@nospam.invalid

The result in mutt with index_format set to:

 %-30.30n ...

is that the following is displayed in the index:

python-list-bounces+pgenpaul=gmail@python.org instead of Joe User

I edited the mbox and changed the malformed email address in the From:
field, to:

Joe User phr...@nospam.invalid

and on the particular message this fixed the problem.

Does anyone know why this is happening, and how I can work around it?

Thanks,

Gen-Paul.


Re: Malformed From: address in headers

2009-08-11 Thread Kyle Wheeler
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Hash: SHA256

On Tuesday, August 11 at 07:41 PM, quoth Patrick Gen Paul:
Does anyone know why this is happening, and how I can work around it?

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head: his From: header 
is invalid. Mutt can see that it's invalid, and so refuses to trust 
it. As I see it, mutt is behaving defensively. But more specifically, 
several of those characters are invalid in email addresses, which 
demonstrates that the header does not contain trustworthy data.

Since mutt cannot trust the From header, and thus cannot properly 
decode that header, it cannot *use* that header. So mutt treats the 
message almost as if it didn't have that header.

For a metaphor: if you were in a restaurant and found something that 
shouldn't be there (e.g. a screw) in the sauce on the dish you 
ordered, what would you do? Would you just take the screw out, assume 
that the sauce is fine, and continue eating? Or would you choose not 
to eat the sauce? Mutt, like you, chooses not to eat the sauce.

Make sense?

~Kyle
- -- 
Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert 
that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.
-- G. K. Chesterton
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Re: Malformed From: address in headers

2009-08-11 Thread Patrick Gen Paul
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 8:19 PM, Kyle Wheelerkyle-m...@memoryhole.net wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA256

 On Tuesday, August 11 at 07:41 PM, quoth Patrick Gen Paul:
Does anyone know why this is happening, and how I can work around it?

 I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head: his From: header
 is invalid. Mutt can see that it's invalid, and so refuses to trust
 it. As I see it, mutt is behaving defensively. But more specifically,
 several of those characters are invalid in email addresses, which
 demonstrates that the header does not contain trustworthy data.

 Since mutt cannot trust the From header, and thus cannot properly
 decode that header, it cannot *use* that header. So mutt treats the
 message almost as if it didn't have that header.

 For a metaphor: if you were in a restaurant and found something that
 shouldn't be there (e.g. a screw) in the sauce on the dish you
 ordered, what would you do? Would you just take the screw out, assume
 that the sauce is fine, and continue eating? Or would you choose not
 to eat the sauce? Mutt, like you, chooses not to eat the sauce.

 Make sense?

In a roundabout way, as you probably intended.

I'm mostly trying to build some form of argumentation that may
convince this annoying poster to mend his ways.

Is there a well-respected mail etiquette, or RFC even, that I could
refer him to?

I have contacted the poster via the list and asked him to contact me
off-list to discuss further but he has not responded yet.

I'm giving him another 24 hours before I killfile him for good.

Thank you for your comments, much appreciated.

Gen-Paul


Re: Malformed From: address in headers

2009-08-11 Thread Kyle Wheeler
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Tuesday, August 11 at 09:34 PM, quoth Patrick Gen Paul:
 Is there a well-respected mail etiquette, or RFC even, that I could 
 refer him to?

Ah! Why did you say so? I thought you were trying to decide whether or 
not mutt was misbehaving (I wonder what Thunderbird does with this 
fellow's email).

You may find RFC 822 useful. The relevant header definition is this 
one:

 authentic =   From   :   mailbox  ; Single author
   / ( Sender :   mailbox  ; Actual submittor
   From   : 1#mailbox) ; Multiple Authors

He's using the first option, which means his email address MUST 
conform to the mailbox description, which is as follows:

 mailbox = addr-spec ; simple address
 / phrase route-addr ; name  addr-spec

He's chosen the latter form. His name eats up the phrase portion, so 
his email address must conform to a route-addr, defined thusly:

 route-addr =  [route] addr-spec 

Since he's not including a route, the thing within the wockas () 
MUST conform to the addr-spec definition, which is:

 addr-spec = local-part @ domain

The objectionable part of his address is the local-part, which is 
required to be formed like so:

 local-part = word *(. word)

His local-part is composed of two words, separated by a period. The 
FIRST word, though, is broken. A word is:

 word = atom / quoted-string

The quoted-string definition doesn't apply here (since he isn't using 
quotes), and an atom is defined as:

 atom = 1*any CHAR except specials, SPACE and CTLs

specials, as you'll note in section 3.3 of RFC 822 are:

 specials = ( / ) /  /  / @  ; Must be in quoted-
  / , / ; / : / \ /   ;  string, to use
  / . / [ / ]  ;  within a word.

In other words, he's using a colon in an atom, which is explicitly 
forbidden by the definition of email.

Is that sufficiently explicit for you? :)

(And, in case you get into an argument with him, addr-spec has not 
changed, even with more recent less-standardized RFCs)

I'm surprised that his email isn't instantly classified as spam. 
Usually it's just spammers that violate basic well-recognized rules 
like that, and it's fairly common to blacklist emails that are 
fundamentally malformed or disobey basic rules like that---especially 
in an age when it's equally common to see software come out with 
updates warning security fix! malformed input caused cancer in users; 
who would have thought a stray colon would cause that kind of trouble! 
Oh the humanity, how were we poor developers to know that not everyone 
was trustworthy?!? (or something similar).

 I'm giving him another 24 hours before I killfile him for good.

Good luck with that.

~Kyle
- -- 
I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the 
less we use our power the greater it will be.
-- Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Malformed From: address in headers

2009-08-11 Thread Patrick Gen Paul
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:12 PM, Kyle Wheelerkyle-m...@memoryhole.net wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA256

 On Tuesday, August 11 at 09:34 PM, quoth Patrick Gen Paul:
 Is there a well-respected mail etiquette, or RFC even, that I could
 refer him to?

 Ah! Why did you say so? I thought you were trying to decide whether or
 not mutt was misbehaving (I wonder what Thunderbird does with this
 fellow's email).

Sorry, I should have mentioned that I was convinced from the word go that
there's nothing wrong with mutt's behavior, since no other email on this list or
any of the thirty I am subscribed to is thus affected.

In any case I would  never think of filing a bug report for something
this frivolous.

Was thinking the fellow might start arguing and quite easily may know a
bit more about electronic mail than I do. Call it getting ready for the
onslaught :-)

Funny your mentioning T-Bird, btw, since my correspondent (?) actually
appears to use gnus.

 You may find RFC 822 useful. The relevant header definition is this
 one:

 authentic =   From   :   mailbox  ; Single author
   / ( Sender :   mailbox  ; Actual submittor
   From   : 1#mailbox) ; Multiple Authors

 He's using the first option, which means his email address MUST
 conform to the mailbox description, which is as follows:

 mailbox = addr-spec ; simple address
 / phrase route-addr ; name  addr-spec

 He's chosen the latter form. His name eats up the phrase portion, so
 his email address must conform to a route-addr, defined thusly:

 route-addr =  [route] addr-spec 

 Since he's not including a route, the thing within the wockas ()
 MUST conform to the addr-spec definition, which is:

wockas..?

 addr-spec = local-part @ domain

 The objectionable part of his address is the local-part, which is
 required to be formed like so:

 local-part = word *(. word)

 His local-part is composed of two words, separated by a period. The
 FIRST word, though, is broken. A word is:

 word = atom / quoted-string

 The quoted-string definition doesn't apply here (since he isn't using
 quotes), and an atom is defined as:

 atom = 1*any CHAR except specials, SPACE and CTLs

 specials, as you'll note in section 3.3 of RFC 822 are:

 specials = ( / ) /  /  / @  ; Must be in quoted-
  / , / ; / : / \ /   ;  string, to use
  / . / [ / ]  ;  within a word.

 In other words, he's using a colon in an atom, which is explicitly
 forbidden by the definition of email.

 Is that sufficiently explicit for you? :)

:-)

 (And, in case you get into an argument with him, addr-spec has not
 changed, even with more recent less-standardized RFCs)

.. I'm planning on politely asking him to desist - the simple fact that
he starts to argue would be quite sufficient to categorize him as killfile
fodder.

 I'm surprised that his email isn't instantly classified as spam.
 Usually it's just spammers that violate basic well-recognized rules
 like that, and it's fairly common to blacklist emails that are
 fundamentally malformed or disobey basic rules like that---especially
 in an age when it's equally common to see software come out with
 updates warning security fix! malformed input caused cancer in users;
 who would have thought a stray colon would cause that kind of trouble!
 Oh the humanity, how were we poor developers to know that not everyone
 was trustworthy?!? (or something similar).

That, actually is a much better option than killfiling him locally..!!
If he is not
amenable, I'll contact the list's whip and ask him to ban the guy until he
make amends.

With your permission, I will point my report as spam to your exposé

 I'm giving him another 24 hours before I killfile him for good.

 Good luck with that.

Adding a procmail rule that directs his ensuing contributions to my SPAM
folder shouldn't be too hard.

Thank you,

Gen-Paul.


Re: Malformed From: address in headers

2009-08-11 Thread Kyle Wheeler
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On Tuesday, August 11 at 11:47 PM, quoth Patrick Gen Paul:
 Funny your mentioning T-Bird, btw, since my correspondent (?) 
 actually appears to use gnus.

Huh.

 Since he's not including a route, the thing within the wockas () 
 MUST conform to the addr-spec definition, which is:

 wockas..?

:) A name for greater-than and less-than symbols, collectively. Hmm... 
I don't know where I got it from (Google has no idea either, though I 
may be mispelling it). I thought it was a common name (like shebang 
for #!), but Google makes me doubt myself.

 With your permission, I will point my report as spam to your 
 exposé

Heh, well, I'm not saying he *should* be spam, I'm just surprised he 
isn't already classified that way. But feel free to point anyone at my 
email. :)

~Kyle
- -- 
Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing 
your temper.
-- Robert Frost
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Re: Malformed From: address in headers

2009-08-11 Thread Cameron Simpson
On 11Aug2009 19:41, Patrick Gen Paul pgenp...@gmail.com wrote:
| On the python-users mailing lists, there are posts from a user who
| forges his From: email address to something like:
| 
| Joe User http://phr...@nospam.invalid

Ah, so I'm not the only person irritated by this guy.

Possibly mutt users are the only ones whose MUAs protect them to the
extent of hiding the From: altogether.

[...]
| I edited the mbox and changed the malformed email address in the From:
| field, to:
| Joe User phr...@nospam.invalid
| and on the particular message this fixed the problem.

I'm thinking about getting procmail to rewrite that header
as you describe. Maybe (untested):

  :0whf
  * ^from:.*http://phr...@nospam.invalid
  | formail -i 'From: Joe User phr...@nospam.invalid'

ahead of the other rules.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson c...@zip.com.au DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

Archiving the net is like washing toilet paper! - Leader Kibo


Re: Malformed From: address in headers

2009-08-11 Thread Kyle Wheeler
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Tuesday, August 11 at 11:23 PM, quoth Kyle Wheeler:
 wockas..?

 :) A name for greater-than and less-than symbols, collectively. Hmm... 
 I don't know where I got it from (Google has no idea either, though I 
 may be mispelling it). I thought it was a common name (like shebang 
 for #!), but Google makes me doubt myself.

I believe it's a PacMan thing.  or  are both PacMan mouths, and he 
says wocka all the time, so they're wockas.

But don't ask me where or when I first started calling them that; I 
don't know.

~Kyle
- -- 
Ten percent of people can think, another ten percent of people think 
that they think, and eighty percent of people would rather die than be 
made to think.
 -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Re: Malformed From: address in headers

2009-08-11 Thread Cameron Simpson
On 12Aug2009 14:56, I wrote:
| I'm thinking about getting procmail to rewrite that header
| as you describe. Maybe (untested):
| 
|   :0whf
|   * ^from:.*http://phr...@nospam.invalid
|   | formail -i 'From: Joe User phr...@nospam.invalid'
| 
| ahead of the other rules.

I'm now running with this:

:0
* ^from:.*http://phr...@nospam.invalid
{
  :0whf
  | sed '/^[Ff]rom:/s|http://||'
}

Seems to work. (I know that can be written as a single clause instead of
nested; the above is a syntactic thing for my mail rule processor.)

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson c...@zip.com.au DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

  Neomort : Brain-dead human, kept alive for medical purposes.
Medicine Lecturer : Brain-dead human, kept alive for medical purposes.