Re: parallel installations of mysql

[Jan Steinman]

> From: Reindl Harald 
> 
> Am 03.07.2016 um 04:47 schrieb Martin Mueller:
>> If port 3306 is taken, how is one supposed to know that 3307 is a good 
>> alternative? Why not 3317 or 3703
> 
> seriously?
> 
> when this is your point about bad documentation than you just don't have a 
> point

I have to agree.

If you really insist on this path, it would be good to take a course in UNIX 
system administration. Then you’ll understand ports better.

People who understand UNIX have little trouble with MySQL on the Mac. But 
people who only understand Mac OS using GUI tools have a bit of a distorted 
view of what it takes to install, operate, and support various UNIX tools — 
including MySQL.

I still don’t fully understand your reasoning for insisting on two instances. 
Have you considered simply having two *databases* within the same MySQL process 
space? That should make things MUCH simpler, and faster, too!

With two instances, you’ll be using two heaps, two stacks, and you should 
consider doubling your physical memory, if you’re doing anything intensive. And 
if you aren’t doing anything intensive, there really isn’t any need for two 
identical processes.

Another thing to consider to make the whole exercise simpler is to get another 
Mac. A used Mac Mini is pretty cheap! An older Mac that the university has 
“discarded” will do just fine for light MySQL use. Just put them both on fixed 
10.*.*.* addresses. (After consulting with your IT folk, of course, if they’ll 
also be on the university LAN.) It is MUCH SIMPLER to talk to instances on 
different machines than to keep straight multiple instances on the same machine.

So, rather than ask for advice to implement your proposed solution, why not 
describe your problem more fully? Perhaps there are simpler solutions that 
people could more easily walk you through than helping someone who is not 
comfortable with CLI through having two MySQL processes running. Because in all 
your interactions with the database, the multiple-processes thing is going to 
bite you and confuse you! Especially if you are not comfortable writing simple 
bash scripts.

Jan Steinman
EcoReality Co-op, http://www.EcoReality.org
2152 Fulford-Ganges Road
Salt Spring Island, BC V8K 1Z7 CANADA
+1 250.653.2024




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Re: parallel installations of mysql

[Reindl Harald]

Am 03.07.2016 um 04:47 schrieb Martin Mueller:

If port 3306 is taken, how is one supposed to know that 3307 is a good 
alternative? Why not 3317 or 3703


seriously?

when this is your point about bad documentation than you just don't have 
a point - there is no "good alternive". ist's only a question of is the 
port already used by another service (and since this is a local question 
it has no place in any docs) and "hm, if i start mysqld already with a 
low privileged user i need a port between 1024 and 65535


if all of your points are "i have no clue and the documentation noweher 
talks about macos" then just install a virtual machine which is for 
development setups in general a good solution (simlar environment as 
everywhere in production or mass hoster setups, snapshots, backup of the 
whole environment, cloneable)




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Re: parallel installations of mysql

[Martin Mueller]

Thanks. That’s helpful and makes me think that there may be a “Mac hole” in the 
MySQL documentation. Windows is one thing and Linux another. OS X is sort of 
Unix, but only sort of, and the conventions are not as firmly established. For 
instance, the instructions for the MySQl Sandbox—on the face of it a useful 
utility—are much more Linux specific than the author tells you. Making them 
work on a Mac might be easy for someone who knows a lot about Linux. But if you 
don’t, as I don’t, you’re stuck

It would actually be terrific if MySql 5.7 by default  installed itself as a 
neighbor without encroaching on the 5.6 that is already there, like oXygen. It 
would be equally terrific if it just superseded 5.6, but let you get on with 
your work. But it doesn’t do one or the other.  It will overwrite without 
replacing, and you have to take a lot of very careful steps to make sure that 
things don’t get in each other’s way. The documentation for that, especially on 
the Mac side, is not good. 

If port 3306 is taken, how is one supposed to know that 3307 is a good 
alternative? Why not 3317 or 3703.  The MySQL documentation here is plagued by 
what Steven Pinker in a recent book on writing called the “curse of ignorance,” 
the fact that one neither knows nor cares about what the other person doesn’t 
know. 




On 7/2/16, 9:11 PM, "Hal.sz S.ndor"  wrote:

2016/07/02 18:49 ... Martin Mueller:
> It’s clear from Section 6.6 of the Reference manual that I need to make sure 
> that the new installation differs from the old one with regard to the data 
> directory, the port number, the socket, the shared memory-base-name, and the 
> pid-file.
>
> It’s less clear to me where to change these setting. In the .dmg version of a 
> Mac version, you can’t make any choices. I don’t know whether it’s a bug or a 
> feature, but the button for customizing an installation doesn’t work.
>
> So the other option is the .tar file. There are a lot of files in that 
> directory, but no file that draws attention to itself as the file where you 
> make these changes.
>
> Some of the instructions are obscure to folks like me. What is a good port 
> number? Will anything do, or is there a list somewhere? What do I call an 
> alternate pid file?

Since I use Windows and not Mac, not all my experience is relevant, but 
there is a file, that for wIndows is called "my.ini" but the original 
name is "my.cnf", which is full of stuff. For a while I ran both 5.5 and 
5.6, with port 3306 for the former and 3307 for the latter.
There is on this machine a top-level directory "ProgramData", and the 
version-5.6 files are under "\ProgramData\MySQL\MySQL Server 5.6" (yuck, 
backslash). I imagine for version 5.7 there is to be 
"\ProgramData\MySQL\MySQL Server 5.7". This directory is named in 
"my.ini". The PID file is under this directory.
Maybe some of this maps onto the Mac version.
(Iself have begun to use SQLite for some purposes.)

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Re: parallel installations of mysql

[Reindl Harald]

Am 03.07.2016 um 00:49 schrieb Martin Mueller:

After struggling for several hours with installing an alternate installation of 
MySQL, I’ve concluded that this may be beyond my feeble powers but also that 
the official instructions are not very good. They are written for system 
administrators who are doing work of this kind all the time. I’m a scholar who 
has a reasonably firm command of SQL code but doesn’t work much at the command 
line. So you could say “tough luck” or you could try to be a little more 
explicit in the official instructions.


no, it's just easy, create a startup unit which fires up mysqld with a 
different config file, how that works on your OS is beyond mysqld


mysql  590  0.0  3.2 350092 82972 ?Ssl  Jul02   0:03 
/usr/libexec/mysqld --defaults-file=/etc/my.cnf


mysql  596  0.2  7.5 888280 192620 ?   Ssl  Jul02   0:50 
/usr/libexec/mysqld --defaults-file=/etc/my-dbmail.cnf




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Re: parallel installations of mysql

[Hal.sz S.ndor]

2016/07/02 18:49 ... Martin Mueller:

It’s clear from Section 6.6 of the Reference manual that I need to make sure 
that the new installation differs from the old one with regard to the data 
directory, the port number, the socket, the shared memory-base-name, and the 
pid-file.

It’s less clear to me where to change these setting. In the .dmg version of a 
Mac version, you can’t make any choices. I don’t know whether it’s a bug or a 
feature, but the button for customizing an installation doesn’t work.

So the other option is the .tar file. There are a lot of files in that 
directory, but no file that draws attention to itself as the file where you 
make these changes.

Some of the instructions are obscure to folks like me. What is a good port 
number? Will anything do, or is there a list somewhere? What do I call an 
alternate pid file?


Since I use Windows and not Mac, not all my experience is relevant, but 
there is a file, that for wIndows is called "my.ini" but the original 
name is "my.cnf", which is full of stuff. For a while I ran both 5.5 and 
5.6, with port 3306 for the former and 3307 for the latter.
There is on this machine a top-level directory "ProgramData", and the 
version-5.6 files are under "\ProgramData\MySQL\MySQL Server 5.6" (yuck, 
backslash). I imagine for version 5.7 there is to be 
"\ProgramData\MySQL\MySQL Server 5.7". This directory is named in 
"my.ini". The PID file is under this directory.

Maybe some of this maps onto the Mac version.
(Iself have begun to use SQLite for some purposes.)

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Re: parallel installations of mysql

[Martin Mueller]

Dear Mr. Green,

After struggling for several hours with installing an alternate installation of 
MySQL, I’ve concluded that this may be beyond my feeble powers but also that 
the official instructions are not very good. They are written for system 
administrators who are doing work of this kind all the time. I’m a scholar who 
has a reasonably firm command of SQL code but doesn’t work much at the command 
line. So you could say “tough luck” or you could try to be a little more 
explicit in the official instructions.

I work with a Mac, and as far as I can tell there isn’t much love lost between 
Apple and Oracle. And proper Linux users may think of Mac users as wimps. Which 
they may be. But they still want to use relational databases.

It’s clear from Section 6.6 of the Reference manual that I need to make sure 
that the new installation differs from the old one with regard to the data 
directory, the port number, the socket, the shared memory-base-name, and the 
pid-file.

It’s less clear to me where to change these setting. In the .dmg version of a 
Mac version, you can’t make any choices. I don’t know whether it’s a bug or a 
feature, but the button for customizing an installation doesn’t work. 

So the other option is the .tar file. There are a lot of files in that 
directory, but no file that draws attention to itself as the file where you 
make these changes. 

Some of the instructions are obscure to folks like me. What is a good port 
number? Will anything do, or is there a list somewhere? What do I call an 
alternate pid file?

In documentation that would be friendlier, there might be a side-by side 
scenario, showing the values for the first installation, and possible alternate 
values for a second installation. And it would help to remind the user, who is 
not a systems administrator dealing with this stuff every day, where you find 
the relevant configuration files. It’s an odd feature of MySQL that it doesn’t 
seem to have an initial configuration file in the tar version of the program. 
So the question where to go in the first place is not obvious. 

Having failed to get it right, I tried a MySQL sandbox program that promised to 
do all this without trouble. Alas, it didn’t work on the Mac at all. 

Perhaps I should use SQLite, where you don’t have to worry about any of this 
stuff. On the other hand , MySQL has very  elegant and logically organized 
functions, and it’s a joy to work with once you have it actually installed an 
running. 

I’ll be grateful for any help.

Martin Mueller
Professor emeritus of English and Classics
Northwestern University

On 4/21/16, 5:42 PM, "shawn l.green"  wrote:



On 4/20/2016 2:04 PM, Martin Mueller wrote:
>
> I am running MySQL 5.6.22 on an iMac as a desktop database. I would like to 
> install 5.7.12. Can I install it as a parallel and independent  instance? And 
> if so, are there special problems to watch out for?
>
>
>
>
>
> Why would I want to do this? Well, I have a set of databases and tables on 
> the old installations that have grown over the years. Given the way I work, 
> the simplest thing would be install the new database and then work through my 
> existing tables over a number of weeks and transfer stuff as I go along.   
> That may not be very professional but it works for me, and it would let me 
> keep the old along the new, just in case something goes wrong/
>
> My friends tell me to use sqlite, and they are probably right since file 
> management is so much simpler. But I find the many builtin functions of MySQL 
> very helpful and don't particularly want to learn a new set.
>
> Martin Mueller
>

Many systems have more than one mysqld running on them at the same time. 
To make them operate safely, you have to isolate them from each other 
using the guidance in this section of the manual:

http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.7/en/multiple-servers.html


-- 
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MySQL Senior Principal Technical Support Engineer
Oracle USA, Inc. - Integrated Cloud Applications & Platform Services
Office: Blountville, TN

Become certified in MySQL! Visit https://www.mysql.com/certification/ 
for details.

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Re: parallel installations of mysql

[shawn l.green]

On 4/20/2016 2:04 PM, Martin Mueller wrote:


I am running MySQL 5.6.22 on an iMac as a desktop database. I would like to 
install 5.7.12. Can I install it as a parallel and independent  instance? And 
if so, are there special problems to watch out for?





Why would I want to do this? Well, I have a set of databases and tables on the 
old installations that have grown over the years. Given the way I work, the 
simplest thing would be install the new database and then work through my 
existing tables over a number of weeks and transfer stuff as I go along.   That 
may not be very professional but it works for me, and it would let me keep the 
old along the new, just in case something goes wrong/

My friends tell me to use sqlite, and they are probably right since file 
management is so much simpler. But I find the many builtin functions of MySQL 
very helpful and don't particularly want to learn a new set.

Martin Mueller



Many systems have more than one mysqld running on them at the same time. 
To make them operate safely, you have to isolate them from each other 
using the guidance in this section of the manual:


http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.7/en/multiple-servers.html


--
Shawn Green
MySQL Senior Principal Technical Support Engineer
Oracle USA, Inc. - Integrated Cloud Applications & Platform Services
Office: Blountville, TN

Become certified in MySQL! Visit https://www.mysql.com/certification/ 
for details.


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Re: parallel installations of mysql

[Johan De Meersman]

That works nicely, you just need to make sure that you set up the second 
instance on a different port, with different data and log directories etc.

Do you expect many issues from the upgrade? In most cases, an in-place upgrade 
should work the same or better than the old version :-)


- Original Message -
> From: "Martin Mueller" 
> To: "MySql" 
> Sent: Wednesday, 20 April, 2016 20:04:57
> Subject: parallel installations of mysql

> I am running MySQL 5.6.22 on an iMac as a desktop database. I would like to
> install 5.7.12. Can I install it as a parallel and independent  instance? And
> if so, are there special problems to watch out for?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would I want to do this? Well, I have a set of databases and tables on the
> old installations that have grown over the years. Given the way I work, the
> simplest thing would be install the new database and then work through my
> existing tables over a number of weeks and transfer stuff as I go along.   
> That
> may not be very professional but it works for me, and it would let me keep the
> old along the new, just in case something goes wrong/
> 
> My friends tell me to use sqlite, and they are probably right since file
> management is so much simpler. But I find the many builtin functions of MySQL
> very helpful and don't particularly want to learn a new set.
> 
> Martin Mueller
> 
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> MySQL General Mailing List
> For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql
> To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql

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