Re: using mysql in commercial software
On Aug 09, 2004, at 17:56, Jeremy Zawodny wrote: This is confusing. There are *two* official places to discuss the licensing and community issues? Ugh. Or am I misunderstanding things? The licensing forum seems to generally be used provide quick answers on licensing questions for proprietary software developers, while the community forum is more for discussing any non-technical issue that relates to the MySQL community. Cheers! --zak -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: using mysql in commercial software
Greetings All, LinuxWorld is now finished (meaning that some of the key MySQL people who need to be in on these discussions will be back to a more normal working setup) and the weekend is more or less here. I hope to pick up discussions on these issues with the other MySQLers on Monday (or to word it differently, I hope to avoid talking about licensing on my weekend! ;) Also, this discussion is a better fit for the community list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). There are already a group of people interested in the licensing issues on that list. Unless people feel strongly, I will move this issue to that list. I urge those with an interest in our licensing and other community issues to subscribe to the community list. Those who are subscribed to our community list but not the MySQL general list, see http://lists.mysql.com/mysql/169680 to catch up on the discussion thread this message refers to. Also, those of you with an interest in licensing might also be interested in the licensing forum at http://forums.mysql.com/list.php?4 - there are additional discussions there on a variety of licensing issues. Have a good weekend! -- Zak Greant MySQL AB Community Advocate -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: using mysql in commercial software
At 11:24 AM 8/2/2004, you wrote: On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 01:35:44 -0700, Jeremy Zawodny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 01:26:15PM -0500, gerald_clark wrote: Steve Richter wrote: exactly! Is Linux distributed under the same type of license as MySql? If I sell software that runs on linux I dont have to give away my code, right? To use my software you first have to install no charge Linux and MySql. Why would that not be permitted? Because the MySQL license does not allow you to use it free with commercial software that requires MySQL. If you are running commercial software that requires MySQL you must buy a license. And this is where the confusion start. MySQL is covered by the GPL. So is Linux. As far as the server goes, sure. However there is a key difference in that APIs such as glibc on Linux are licensed under the LGPL. The mysql client libraries used to be the same way, then they changed them to be under the GPL. So don't use the MySQL client libraries.g This means that, according to the most common interpretation of the GPL, just linking with them automatically requires your code be under the GPL. License: The GPL license is contagious in the sense that when a program is linked to a GPL program, all the source code for all the parts of the resulting product must also be released under the GPL. So what if the client app doesn't require the MySql client libraries in order to access the MySQL database? My client application requires no dll's at all, because everything is compiled inside an .exe file. That's because I'm using a 3rd party set of components that bypasses the libmysql*.dll libraries altogether. My application doesn't link to MySQL's code, GPL or otherwise. Does this now make my application license free even if I distribute it for $$$? Or will the software police come banging on my door at 4 AM looking for me? Mike -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: using mysql in commercial software
Hi Mike, On Aug 06, 2004, at 18:08, mos wrote: This means that, according to the most common interpretation of the GPL, just linking with them automatically requires your code be under the GPL. License: The GPL license is contagious in the sense that when a program is linked to a GPL program, all the source code for all the parts of the resulting product must also be released under the GPL. One important note here: The GPL does not behave in the way described above. There is no requirement to distribute software that you build with or on top of GPL-licensed software to others. However, if you choose to distribute software that is a derivative work (defined in US copyright law as A ''derivative work'' is a work based upon one or more preexisting works) of GPL-licensed software, then the software can only be distributed under the GPL. So what if the client app doesn't require the MySql client libraries in order to access the MySQL database? My client application requires no dll's at all, because everything is compiled inside an .exe file. That's because I'm using a 3rd party set of components that bypasses the libmysql*.dll libraries altogether. My application doesn't link to MySQL's code, GPL or otherwise. Does this now make my application license free even if I distribute it for $$$? Or will the software police come banging on my door at 4 AM looking for me? This architecture might bypass the requirements of the GPL - I don't really know. The best course of action here is to consult a lawyer who is an expert in Free Software/Open Source software licensing who can advise you of the validity of your course of action for your given situation. We would probably assert that the software forms a derivative work with GPL-licensed MySQL because the software would likely not function without MySQL. However, this is a tough area to speculate on. As we are not lawyers (nor are we in the business of giving free legal advice to help people circumvent our own business model :), we always recommend that proprietary applications (aka applications that do not share their source code and the rights to modify it with others) should always use the proprietarily licensed version of MySQL. This recommendation ensures that our licensing terms are never violated and helps us generate revenue to fund development of the database. Usually, people who distribute proprietary applications are selling them. We feel that it is reasonable to charge users who wish to charge their users and who do not give their users the freedom to view, modify and share the source of the application. We also suggest that people consider putting their software under a Free Software/Open Source license (such as the GPL, the BSD license, the Apache license and so on). Then they can use MySQL for free. This model may not work for everyone, but there is still significant potential for revenue with the model by selling the application at a fee that the market finds reasonable, along with related services like hosting, support, consulting, etc. People may also want to consider using a dual-licensing model that allows them to share with others who choose to use Open Source/Free Software licenses, but gives them a revenue stream from people who prefer traditional proprietary licenses. Cheers! -- Zak Greant MySQL AB Community Advocate -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: using mysql in commercial software
Greetings All, I walked through the mailing list thread earlier today. The big issues that I believe that people raised were: * Incorrect information on distribution as it applies to the GPL in our licensing documents * Lack of clarity from MySQL on what is and not acceptable use of GPL-licensed MySQL * Lack of concrete examples of suitable/unsuitable use of GPL-licensed MySQL I opened up a new ticket at http://zak.greant.com:/licensing/tktview?tn=40 to cover the last two of issues. The ticket is rather terse, but I think that we all understand the issues. The existing ticket http://zak.greant.com:/licensing/tktview?tn=32 seems to cover the first issue. Also, I have started discussing these issues with the other MySQLers and hope to have something useful to report soon. I understand that this is not optimal because it does not involve all of the people who have a stake in the licensing. Frankly licensing is a tough issue for us - it is the base of our revenue and it affects many people within and without the company. Additionally, it is a legal issue - something that makes many people, including us, very cautious. Please continue to provide feedback on this area using any channel that you feel comfortable using. I admit that I prefer knowing about feedback on MySQL, so a courtesy Cc to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and/or to our community list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) and/or an open ticket in the licensing issue tracking system (http://licensing.zak.greant.com) are all greatly appreciated. Cheers! --zak -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: using mysql in commercial software
- Original Message - From: mos [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 03:41 AM 8/2/2004, Jeremy Zawodny wrote: On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 11:49:02PM -0500, mos wrote: At 04:43 PM 7/26/2004, you wrote: looks like the answer is no. As soon as fee based software touches the mysql install on the PC, the user is obligated to pay the $250. Actually I believe the MySQL 4.x license is more stringent than that. If the MySQL database is distributed within a company for free, then a license is still required, unless the application is distributed under the GPL. Huh? I bet it depends on the country. In the USA, companies are considered singular legal entities. Internal distribution is aking to giving copies to yourself. The GPL doesn't restrict that. Well, I'm not so sure. Here it is straight from the horses mouth namely [EMAIL PROTECTED] Free use for those who never copy, modify or distribute. As long as you never distribute (internally or externally) the MySQL Software in any way, you are free to use it for powering your application, irrespective of whether your application is under GPL license or not, http://www.mysql.com/products/licensing/opensource-license.html. Here's an interesting idea: What if you run a MySQL mirror (My company just started hosting http://mirror.mirimar.net/mysql/ for example) - that wording of the license is dangerous, because, as a company working with software/web development, we'd be getting sucker punched for most apps because we distribute MySQL software... And I thought we were doing MySQL AB a favor! ;-) Issac -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: using mysql in commercial software
Issac Goldstand [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 03/08/2004 09:47:31: - Original Message - From: mos [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, I'm not so sure. Here it is straight from the horses mouth namely [EMAIL PROTECTED] Free use for those who never copy, modify or distribute. As long as you never distribute (internally or externally) the MySQL Software in any way, you are free to use it for powering your application, irrespective of whether your application is under GPL license or not, http://www.mysql.com/products/licensing/opensource-license.html. Here's an interesting idea: What if you run a MySQL mirror (My company just started hosting http://mirror.mirimar.net/mysql/ for example) - that wording of the license is dangerous, because, as a company working with software/web development, we'd be getting sucker punched for most apps because we distribute MySQL software... And I thought we were doing MySQL AB a favor! ;-) Irrelevant, because you are redistributing under the GPL (I assume). That is, you are offering the full source, as offered on the -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: using mysql in commercial software
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Issac Goldstand [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 03/08/2004 09:47:31: - Original Message - From: mos [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, I'm not so sure. Here it is straight from the horses mouth namely [EMAIL PROTECTED] Free use for those who never copy, modify or distribute. As long as you never distribute (internally or externally) the MySQL Software in any way, you are free to use it for powering your application, irrespective of whether your application is under GPL license or not, http://www.mysql.com/products/licensing/opensource-license.html. Here's an interesting idea: What if you run a MySQL mirror (My company just started hosting http://mirror.mirimar.net/mysql/ for example) - that wording of the license is dangerous, because, as a company working with software/web development, we'd be getting sucker punched for most apps because we distribute MySQL software... And I thought we were doing MySQL AB a favor! ;-) Irrelevant, because you are redistributing under the GPL (I assume). That is, you are offering the full source, as offered on the Redistributing MySQL, you mean? That sounds ridiculous - if one could do that, then that would solve all license problems - just include the MySQL source alongside the binaries for the sake of it being there, and you can freely redistribute it with your applications! That just doesn't make sense. And not all of *our* applications are opensource, let alone GPL... Issac -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re[2]: using mysql in commercial software
since GPLed software can also be commercial i think the subject of the thread should probably read using mysql in proprietary software. instead of commercial -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: using mysql in commercial software
Hi Jeremy, Greetings All, First, thank you for taking the time to discuss this issue. It is important that people let us know when they upset with us. Next, it is clear that we need to look at the issues that were raised by this thread. When more of the right people from MySQL return from LinuxWorld, we (MySQL) can take action. Until then, there are a few things that I can recommend: * visit http://licensing.zak.greant.com/ - this is where I keep a partial list of issues relating to MySQL's licensing * of particular interest to this discussion is bug report http://zak.greant.com:/licensing/tktview?tn=32,6 * if this is not bug report is not complete enough, please consider adding an additional request * I won't be back to network access until late tonight, but I will work on scraping the issues from the thread tomorrow * the work on the listed bug report had stalled while we worked on extending the exception to our current GPL licensing * drop by the MySQL booth at LinuxWorld and discuss your feeling with the MySQL team who is present. In particular, you would want to talk to Brian Aker, Zack Urlocker and Marten Mickos. -- Cheers! Zak Greant MySQL AB Community Advocate -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: using mysql in commercial software
On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 01:26:15PM -0500, gerald_clark wrote: Steve Richter wrote: exactly! Is Linux distributed under the same type of license as MySql? If I sell software that runs on linux I dont have to give away my code, right? To use my software you first have to install no charge Linux and MySql. Why would that not be permitted? Because the MySQL license does not allow you to use it free with commercial software that requires MySQL. If you are running commercial software that requires MySQL you must buy a license. And this is where the confusion start. MySQL is covered by the GPL. So is Linux. Jeremy -- Jeremy D. Zawodny | Perl, Web, MySQL, Linux Magazine, Yahoo! [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://jeremy.zawodny.com/ [book] High Performance MySQL -- http://highperformancemysql.com/ -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: using mysql in commercial software
On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 05:43:58PM -0400, Steve Richter wrote: looks like the answer is no. As soon as fee based software touches the mysql install on the PC, the user is obligated to pay the $250. At least I guess it is the user who has to pay. So a copy of MySQL on Windows is free until I buy a copy of MS Access to build forms that display the data stored in MySQL? I don't think your fee based software claim is accurate at all. Jeremy -- Jeremy D. Zawodny | Perl, Web, MySQL, Linux Magazine, Yahoo! [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://jeremy.zawodny.com/ [book] High Performance MySQL -- http://highperformancemysql.com/ -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: using mysql in commercial software
On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 11:49:02PM -0500, mos wrote: At 04:43 PM 7/26/2004, you wrote: looks like the answer is no. As soon as fee based software touches the mysql install on the PC, the user is obligated to pay the $250. Actually I believe the MySQL 4.x license is more stringent than that. If the MySQL database is distributed within a company for free, then a license is still required, unless the application is distributed under the GPL. Huh? I bet it depends on the country. In the USA, companies are considered singular legal entities. Internal distribution is aking to giving copies to yourself. The GPL doesn't restrict that. Wouldn't it be nice if MySQL created a nice little table with a couple of columns License and No License and a bunch of examples down the left hand side? Yes, it would de-mystify a lot of this. Jeremy -- Jeremy D. Zawodny | Perl, Web, MySQL, Linux Magazine, Yahoo! [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://jeremy.zawodny.com/ [book] High Performance MySQL -- http://highperformancemysql.com/ -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: using mysql in commercial software
Jeremy Zawodny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 02/08/2004 09:41:40: On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 11:49:02PM -0500, mos wrote: At 04:43 PM 7/26/2004, you wrote: looks like the answer is no. As soon as fee based software touches the mysql install on the PC, the user is obligated to pay the $250. Actually I believe the MySQL 4.x license is more stringent than that. If the MySQL database is distributed within a company for free, then a license is still required, unless the application is distributed under the GPL. Huh? I bet it depends on the country. In the USA, companies are considered singular legal entities. Internal distribution is aking to giving copies to yourself. The GPL doesn't restrict that. Not only that, but I would have thought that you would normally be willing to offer distribute the source of your application, and/or the GPL source of MySQL, to colleagues in the same company. The GPL does not require you to distribute your source to the world, only to those people to whom you distribute your application. It seems to me that intra-company distribution would fulfill the GPL in all but the most paranoid of companies. Wouldn't it be nice if MySQL created a nice little table with a couple of columns License and No License and a bunch of examples down the left hand side? Yes, it would de-mystify a lot of this. I have a couple of simple rules which, while they might not satisfy the lawyers, seem to me to satisfy the spirit of MySQL's licence: If: 1. You are being paid money for software, and 2. That software would not work without MySQL then MySQL deserves a share of that money, and they have defined the amount they think they deserve by the licence fee - take it or leave it. If you are distributing your application under the GPL, then you are being paid (if you are) for development and not for software, and no licence fee is due. Alec -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: using mysql in commercial software
On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 01:35:44 -0700, Jeremy Zawodny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 01:26:15PM -0500, gerald_clark wrote: Steve Richter wrote: exactly! Is Linux distributed under the same type of license as MySql? If I sell software that runs on linux I dont have to give away my code, right? To use my software you first have to install no charge Linux and MySql. Why would that not be permitted? Because the MySQL license does not allow you to use it free with commercial software that requires MySQL. If you are running commercial software that requires MySQL you must buy a license. And this is where the confusion start. MySQL is covered by the GPL. So is Linux. As far as the server goes, sure. However there is a key difference in that APIs such as glibc on Linux are licensed under the LGPL. The mysql client libraries used to be the same way, then they changed them to be under the GPL. This means that, according to the most common interpretation of the GPL, just linking with them automatically requires your code be under the GPL. Does this still apply to, say, Java code where you are using the standard JDBC interface? How about if you use mysql specific SQL calls? I would suggest perhaps not, but it isn't a simple question. So, for example, you could not sell an application under terms not compatible with the GPL and include the mysql client drivers. Even selling an application that is linked against them, but requires the user to get them themselves, is arguably not permitted. You can go read the FSF's FAQ for their interpretation, but that is just their interpretation. However, remember the GPL only covers copying, distribution, and modification. Not use. Also note that MySQL AB allows an exception designed for the client libraries to be more compatible with other open source licenses: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql/en/MySQL_FOSS_License_Exception.html I believe that MySQL AB is deliberately vague and confusing on their licensing page to try to get people to buy mysql licenses. All their words there don't matter though, what matters is the actual license. It would, however, be nice if their commentary were a bit closer to the reality of what the GPL means. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: using mysql in commercial software
On Mon, Aug 02, 2004 at 09:24:59AM -0700, Marc Slemko wrote: I believe that MySQL AB is deliberately vague and confusing on their licensing page to try to get people to buy mysql licenses. All their words there don't matter though, what matters is the actual license. It would, however, be nice if their commentary were a bit closer to the reality of what the GPL means. You're far from being alone in that assessment. Jeremy -- Jeremy D. Zawodny | Perl, Web, MySQL, Linux Magazine, Yahoo! [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://jeremy.zawodny.com/ [book] High Performance MySQL -- http://highperformancemysql.com/ -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: using mysql in commercial software
At 03:41 AM 8/2/2004, Jeremy Zawodny wrote: On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 11:49:02PM -0500, mos wrote: At 04:43 PM 7/26/2004, you wrote: looks like the answer is no. As soon as fee based software touches the mysql install on the PC, the user is obligated to pay the $250. Actually I believe the MySQL 4.x license is more stringent than that. If the MySQL database is distributed within a company for free, then a license is still required, unless the application is distributed under the GPL. Huh? I bet it depends on the country. In the USA, companies are considered singular legal entities. Internal distribution is aking to giving copies to yourself. The GPL doesn't restrict that. Well, I'm not so sure. Here it is straight from the horses mouth namely [EMAIL PROTECTED] Free use for those who never copy, modify or distribute. As long as you never distribute (internally or externally) the MySQL Software in any way, you are free to use it for powering your application, irrespective of whether your application is under GPL license or not, http://www.mysql.com/products/licensing/opensource-license.html. Changes in our licensing began in version 3.23.19 Changed copyright for all files to GPL. Prior versions can/could use the client libraries under the LGPL license. You notice they say never distribute (internally or externally) the MySQL software in any way... I don't know if the MySQL Software they are referring to are the MySQL libraries libmysql.dll or libmysqld.dll files which is needed to run most MySQL applications, or any file that comes from MySQL AB. I agree with you that it is rather stringent to prevent internal distribution of a MySQL application within a company, and I see no logical reason for preventing it. As I read it, the language they're using prevents the finance department from receiving a copy of the database and application from the sales department. But I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV, so if you want further clarification, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: using mysql in commercial software
On Mon, Aug 02, 2004 at 03:11:10PM -0500, mos wrote: At 03:41 AM 8/2/2004, Jeremy Zawodny wrote: I bet it depends on the country. In the USA, companies are considered singular legal entities. Internal distribution is aking to giving copies to yourself. The GPL doesn't restrict that. Well, I'm not so sure. Here it is straight from the horses mouth namely [EMAIL PROTECTED] Free use for those who never copy, modify or distribute. As long as you never distribute (internally or externally) the MySQL Software in any way, you are free to use it for powering your application, irrespective of whether your application is under GPL license or not, http://www.mysql.com/products/licensing/opensource-license.html. Yes, I've read that bit of the web site before. You notice they say never distribute (internally or externally) the MySQL software in any way... I don't know if the MySQL Software they are referring to are the MySQL libraries libmysql.dll or libmysqld.dll files which is needed to run most MySQL applications, or any file that comes from MySQL AB. Given that all of the code is licensed under the GPL, it hardly matters which piece they're talking about. The GPL does not disallow me making a copy of libmysqlclient.so and putting it on a second machine. If you think it does, I'd like to know *where* in the GPL you (or whoever) sees it. From what the GPL FAQ tells me: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html Does the GPL allow me to require that anyone who receives the software must pay me a fee and/or notify me? No. In fact, a requirement like that would make the program non-free. If people have to pay when they get a copy of a program, or if they have to notify anyone in particular, then the program is not free. See the definition of free software. The GPL is a free software license, and therefore it permits people to use and even redistribute the software without being required to pay anyone a fee for doing so. http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowRequireFee To argue otherwise (as some at MySQL AB seem intent on doing) is absurd. While their CEO speaks and conferences about the success of open source business models another arm of their organization seems to be trying hard to warp the GPL to suit their sales targets. And, quite frankly, I'm sick of it. I agree with you that it is rather stringent to prevent internal distribution of a MySQL application within a company, and I see no logical reason for preventing it. Probably because there isn't one. :-) As I read it, the language they're using prevents the finance department from receiving a copy of the database and application from the sales department. Right. Of course, every department is free to download a copy from the MySQL web site, right? Jeremy -- Jeremy D. Zawodny | Perl, Web, MySQL, Linux Magazine, Yahoo! [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://jeremy.zawodny.com/ [book] High Performance MySQL -- http://highperformancemysql.com/ -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
using mysql in commercial software
( if this is a FAQ or better asked elsewhere, can someone point me in the right direction? ) In general, what are the rules for using MySql as the database in a commercial software package? I am writing faxing software in windows. Currently it is just used by the client who paid me to write a custom package for their use. But I would also like to market the software to the general public. First question has to do with using MySql in the custom fax package used by my client. The client can install MySql for no charge on any or all of the PCs in their organization? My other question has to do with embedding MySql into my code when I sell it copy protected, closed source to any other clients that are willing to pay for it. Is that permitted? I need to make a living from my work. MySql looks to be exactly what I am looking for as the database in my windows c++ code. I hope I am able to use it! thanks, Steve Richter -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: using mysql in commercial software
If you go through the online manual of mysql, it points out that mysql can be used under gpl (then you have to be giving away the source code for your software with mysql) or else you have to purchase mysql commercially. In your case you sure need to buy it. On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 08:11, Steve Richter wrote: ( if this is a FAQ or better asked elsewhere, can someone point me in the right direction? ) In general, what are the rules for using MySql as the database in a commercial software package? I am writing faxing software in windows. Currently it is just used by the client who paid me to write a custom package for their use. But I would also like to market the software to the general public. First question has to do with using MySql in the custom fax package used by my client. The client can install MySql for no charge on any or all of the PCs in their organization? My other question has to do with embedding MySql into my code when I sell it copy protected, closed source to any other clients that are willing to pay for it. Is that permitted? I need to make a living from my work. MySql looks to be exactly what I am looking for as the database in my windows c++ code. I hope I am able to use it! thanks, Steve Richter -- Aman Raheja Linux+ Certified [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brainbench Certified Linux (General) Admin www.TechQuotes.comBrainbench Certified Linux (RedHat 9) Admin -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: using mysql in commercial software
Perhaps I misunderstood the license but it would seem to me that for the original use, a commercial license is *not* needed, since anyone can privately use MySQL for their own private commercial use without a license (I think). From what I understand the only need for a commercial license comes when you're selling a product to the general public which relies on MySQL (or redistributing MySQL, etc). Please correct me if I'm wrong... - Original Message - From: Aman Raheja [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Steve Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: chat. mysql. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 5:49 PM Subject: Re: using mysql in commercial software If you go through the online manual of mysql, it points out that mysql can be used under gpl (then you have to be giving away the source code for your software with mysql) or else you have to purchase mysql commercially. In your case you sure need to buy it. On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 08:11, Steve Richter wrote: ( if this is a FAQ or better asked elsewhere, can someone point me in the right direction? ) In general, what are the rules for using MySql as the database in a commercial software package? I am writing faxing software in windows. Currently it is just used by the client who paid me to write a custom package for their use. But I would also like to market the software to the general public. First question has to do with using MySql in the custom fax package used by my client. The client can install MySql for no charge on any or all of the PCs in their organization? My other question has to do with embedding MySql into my code when I sell it copy protected, closed source to any other clients that are willing to pay for it. Is that permitted? I need to make a living from my work. MySql looks to be exactly what I am looking for as the database in my windows c++ code. I hope I am able to use it! thanks, Steve Richter -- Aman Raheja Linux+ Certified [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brainbench Certified Linux (General) Admin www.TechQuotes.com Brainbench Certified Linux (RedHat 9) Admin -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: using mysql in commercial software
As I understand from the following link http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql/en/Using_the_MySQL_software_under_a_commercial_license.html You need to buy a commercial license if the software you are developing is not to be registered under GPL. Aman On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 09:55, Issac Goldstand wrote: Perhaps I misunderstood the license but it would seem to me that for the original use, a commercial license is *not* needed, since anyone can privately use MySQL for their own private commercial use without a license (I think). From what I understand the only need for a commercial license comes when you're selling a product to the general public which relies on MySQL (or redistributing MySQL, etc). Please correct me if I'm wrong... - Original Message - From: Aman Raheja [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Steve Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: chat. mysql. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 5:49 PM Subject: Re: using mysql in commercial software If you go through the online manual of mysql, it points out that mysql can be used under gpl (then you have to be giving away the source code for your software with mysql) or else you have to purchase mysql commercially. In your case you sure need to buy it. On Mon, 2004-07-26 at 08:11, Steve Richter wrote: ( if this is a FAQ or better asked elsewhere, can someone point me in the right direction? ) In general, what are the rules for using MySql as the database in a commercial software package? I am writing faxing software in windows. Currently it is just used by the client who paid me to write a custom package for their use. But I would also like to market the software to the general public. First question has to do with using MySql in the custom fax package used by my client. The client can install MySql for no charge on any or all of the PCs in their organization? My other question has to do with embedding MySql into my code when I sell it copy protected, closed source to any other clients that are willing to pay for it. Is that permitted? I need to make a living from my work. MySql looks to be exactly what I am looking for as the database in my windows c++ code. I hope I am able to use it! thanks, Steve Richter -- -- Aman Raheja Linux+ Certified [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brainbench Certified Linux (General) Admin www.TechQuotes.comBrainbench Certified Linux (RedHat 9) Admin -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: using mysql in commercial software
-Original Message- From: Michael Abbott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 11:28 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: using mysql in commercial software This may not be strictly legal, but you could have the end user download MySQL.. to run with your software. exactly! Is Linux distributed under the same type of license as MySql? If I sell software that runs on linux I dont have to give away my code, right? To use my software you first have to install no charge Linux and MySql. Why would that not be permitted? -Steve -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: using mysql in commercial software
Steve Richter wrote: -Original Message- From: Michael Abbott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 11:28 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: using mysql in commercial software This may not be strictly legal, but you could have the end user download MySQL.. to run with your software. exactly! Is Linux distributed under the same type of license as MySql? If I sell software that runs on linux I dont have to give away my code, right? To use my software you first have to install no charge Linux and MySql. Why would that not be permitted? -Steve Because the MySQL license does not allow you to use it free with commercial software that requires MySQL. If you are running commercial software that requires MySQL you must buy a license. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: using mysql in commercial software
Hi all, If I write a comercial software that allow my customer at instalation time to select between mysql, interbase or other data base is it legal? Regards, Laercio. -Original Message- From: gerald_clark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: segunda-feira, 26 de julho de 2004 15:26 To: Steve Richter Cc: chat. mysql. Subject: Re: using mysql in commercial software Steve Richter wrote: -Original Message- From: Michael Abbott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 11:28 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: using mysql in commercial software This may not be strictly legal, but you could have the end user download MySQL.. to run with your software. exactly! Is Linux distributed under the same type of license as MySql? If I sell software that runs on linux I dont have to give away my code, right? To use my software you first have to install no charge Linux and MySql. Why would that not be permitted? -Steve Because the MySQL license does not allow you to use it free with commercial software that requires MySQL. If you are running commercial software that requires MySQL you must buy a license. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: using mysql in commercial software
I guess that would depend on what kind of license your database connection libraries come with. ** DISCLAIMER ** I AM NOT A LAWYER and THIS IS *NOT* LEGAL ADVICE. **DISCLAIMER ** Whenever I ask myself can I sell what I just created and keep my source code hidden, I rely on several factors: 1) What restrictions are placed on any source code I wrote, used, or re-used, as well as any image, sound, or other binary resources included in the creation of the product 2) What license do I posesses to use the tools I use to compile, compress, link, assemble, or otherwize create the product in any fashion. 3) What rights do I have to incorporate or redistribute any third-party libraries that the product will require. To find the answers for your circumstances, you must read and re-read the licensing agreements that apply to _everything_ you use to create your product. If you do not feel comfortable with your translation of the legal-ese in your licenses then you need to ask a competent law professional in your locality. Basically, software is rarely ever sold. What is paid for is the license to use a software product (program, library, source code, etc.) for a particular purpose. Some licenses allow for the unlimited personal use of some very powerful tools but when you go commercial with them (using them to create products for sale or transfer to another party) you must verify that your licenses permit you to do so. Each situation will be different. Every product will be different. You just have to go back and dig up all that stuff again and go over it. Respectfully, Shawn Green Database Administrator Unimin Corporation - Spruce Pine Laercio Xisto Braga Cavalcanti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 07/26/2004 04:06:01 PM: Hi all, If I write a comercial software that allow my customer at instalation time to select between mysql, interbase or other data base is it legal? Regards, Laercio. -Original Message- From: gerald_clark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: segunda-feira, 26 de julho de 2004 15:26 To: Steve Richter Cc: chat. mysql. Subject: Re: using mysql in commercial software Steve Richter wrote: -Original Message- From: Michael Abbott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 11:28 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: using mysql in commercial software This may not be strictly legal, but you could have the end user download MySQL.. to run with your software. exactly! Is Linux distributed under the same type of license as MySql? If I sell software that runs on linux I dont have to give away my code, right? To use my software you first have to install no charge Linux and MySql. Why would that not be permitted? -Steve Because the MySQL license does not allow you to use it free with commercial software that requires MySQL. If you are running commercial software that requires MySQL you must buy a license. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: using mysql in commercial software
looks like the answer is no. As soon as fee based software touches the mysql install on the PC, the user is obligated to pay the $250. At least I guess it is the user who has to pay. Because once you pay for the mysql install, you can use as many fee based applications as you want. -Steve -Original Message- From: Laercio Xisto Braga Cavalcanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 3:06 PM To: 'gerald_clark'; 'Steve Richter' Cc: 'chat. mysql.' Subject: RE: using mysql in commercial software Hi all, If I write a comercial software that allow my customer at instalation time to select between mysql, interbase or other data base is it legal? Regards, Laercio. -Original Message- From: gerald_clark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: segunda-feira, 26 de julho de 2004 15:26 To: Steve Richter Cc: chat. mysql. Subject: Re: using mysql in commercial software Steve Richter wrote: -Original Message- From: Michael Abbott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 11:28 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: using mysql in commercial software This may not be strictly legal, but you could have the end user download MySQL.. to run with your software. exactly! Is Linux distributed under the same type of license as MySql? If I sell software that runs on linux I dont have to give away my code, right? To use my software you first have to install no charge Linux and MySql. Why would that not be permitted? -Steve Because the MySQL license does not allow you to use it free with commercial software that requires MySQL. If you are running commercial software that requires MySQL you must buy a license. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: using mysql in commercial software
At 04:43 PM 7/26/2004, you wrote: looks like the answer is no. As soon as fee based software touches the mysql install on the PC, the user is obligated to pay the $250. Actually I believe the MySQL 4.x license is more stringent than that. If the MySQL database is distributed within a company for free, then a license is still required, unless the application is distributed under the GPL. If you keep the database in one central location at your company (or ISP), then a license is not required. If you use the database for your own use and not give the application to anyone, then a license is not required. If you distribute the application for free, but not under the GPL ( you don't distribute the source to the application), you still have to purchase a license. So basically if you distribute your application that depends on MySQL, you need a license unless your application is distributed as GPL, whether you charge for your application or not. Whew!g Wouldn't it be nice if MySQL created a nice little table with a couple of columns License and No License and a bunch of examples down the left hand side? So if you have an application that uses MySQL, and you are going to distribute it (even for free), then a license is required unless you GPL your application. If you're looking for a loophole in the MySQL license, then you'd be better off looking at FireBird or PostgreSQL or something smaller. There are a few zero footprint databases that work well for a dozen or two dozen users under Windows without costing a lot and paying royalties. Some are even client/server. Mike -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
