Re: 4-Byte ASNs from the perspective of the 2-Byte world
At 08:34 AM 11-10-06 +1000, Geoff Huston wrote: On a related note, but not directly on the topic of the format of 4 Byte AS numbers, I prepared some notes about the view of 4-Byte AS numbers from the perspective of the 2-Byte AS realm, in the format of a presentation. These notes may be helpful to some of the NANOG audience: http://www.potaroo.net/presentations/2006-10-11-asns.pdf Thanks! It would be very helpful if you could add slides indicating which Cisco and Juniper versions support NEW_AS_PATH. -Hank Nussbacher http://www.interall.co.il
Re: Broadband ISPs taxed for generating light energy
A Cisco ZX GBIC produces a max of 4.77 dBm (or less than 4mw). 4mw corresponds to 35 watt hours in one year. .035 kwh per year costs 34.5 cents per year using the average US electricity cost in March 2006 of 9.86 cents/kwh. Since the energy flow could be bidirectional, one of the two parties receives a net benefit of up to 34.5 cents. If a broadband provider offers customers a free gift such as a hat, does this make them into a hat retailer for tax purposes? --Michael Dillon
Re: 4-Byte ASNs from the perspective of the 2-Byte world
These notes may be helpful to some of the NANOG audience: http://www.potaroo.net/presentations/2006-10-11-asns.pdf Thanks! It would be very helpful if you could add slides indicating which Cisco and Juniper versions support NEW_AS_PATH. That's a good point Hank, thanks! It would be very helpful to me if any of the Cisco and / or Juniper folk on this mailing list provided me with this information, assuming of course that they want / are comfortable with this information being included in this material. thanks, Geoff
applause from the gallery
Leaving lurk.mode for one of my very rare comments here . . . I do watch quite a bit of the NANOG meetings and find them quite interesting. However, Tuesday's discussion/debate on IP6 was really a standout and I commend everyone involved for putting on your thinking caps and really mixing it up. As a non-network operator, my main concern is that if the ops community doesn't fix the routing problem, someone else with surplus resources and deficit clue is going to take a whack at doing so . . . If I may venture a further opinion, Randy Bush's comment that deciding exactly what problem needs to be solved is a very key point. regards to all, I hope to attend in person again sometime soon fh portland, oregon
Re: that 4byte ASN you were considering...
On 10 Oct 2006, at 22:54, Per Gregers Bilse wrote: [This isn't meant to be flippant or anything else of the kind, it's a genuinely heartfelt thing, albeit maybe a bit off topic.] What all things computer related has needed from day one is a way of pronouncing (reading out loud) hexadecimal. My first computer was a 6502, and I've resented numbers larger than FF since then (been working with AMD Opterons for a couple of years now, disturbing). If you print and read in hex, you don't need dots or any other syntactic aids, the human eye/brain can easily group the requisite number of digits, at least for the time being. The problem is that from and including A we can't talk about the damned things any more -- we resort to spelling out each number, with no inherent and natural feel for what we're taling about. An A380 has a maximum take-off weight of around 24E (two-four-E) tonnes. An A380 has a maximum take-off weight of around 590 (five hundred and ninety) tonnes. Solve that, and we don't need any new notations beyond subtle groupings, just like we group thousands and millions in decimal notation. - Per This is so, so off topic it's not true. I started this as an off-list reply to Per but I'm so pleased with my solution that I can't help sharing it. Take the solution from natural languages. Most languages I speak (or have a smattering of) have a regular or semi-regular way of pronouncing numbers. Single digit numbers have a unique name. 10 (the base) has a unique name. Numbers from 11 to 19 have a name with a suffix and a sound similar to the terminating digit usually with a break from the rule for 11 and 12. (nine, nineteen) (fünf, fünfzehn) We'd regularize that and not have Two digit numbers with a zero in the lowest position have a name using, again, suffix and a similar sound to the name of the single significant digit involved. (four, fourty) (vier, vierzig) 100 has a unique name. 1000 has a unique name. Multiples of either are said digit name multiplier name. That's enough rules apart from the rules for combining all the above rules. So, we just need:- 1) Unique names for all the single digit numbers. 2) A unique name for the base. 3) A suffix sound for 1x form numbers. 4) A suffix sound for x0 form numbers. 5) As many unique names for x0... form numbers as we feel we need. 6) A combining rule(s). So: 1) Use the english names for 0..9. A..F may need new names if combined versions sound too similar to the compound forms. 2) 0x10 = hen 3) Use the suffix -heen for 0x11 .. 0x1f 4) Use the suffix -he for 0xX0 5) 0x100 = hexdred, 0x1000 = hexdrend 6) use the english combining rules 7) Try lots of combinations and then revisit 1. e.g 0xA0 becomes 'Aye'-he which sounds too much like eighty for comfort; so A may need a new name. So: 0x5432 = five hexdrend, four hexdred and thirhe two. 0x1017 = one hexdrend and sevenheen 0x1 = hen hexdrend Happy counting, Ian
Re: that 4byte ASN you were considering...
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 22:54:03 BST, Per Gregers Bilse said: The problem is that from and including A we can't talk about the damned things any more -- we resort to spelling out each number, with no inherent and natural feel for what we're taling about. An A380 has a maximum take-off weight of around 24E (two-four-E) tonnes. An A380 has a maximum take-off weight of around 590 (five hundred and ninety) tonnes. I've seen somebody pronounce C48C as 'ceety four hundred and eighty cee' - and the person listening grokked it. aety, beety, ceety, deety, eety, effty. aety and eighty are a bit too similar, unfortunately. The thousands/millions probably comes easier to those of us who did a lot of octal work - the newcomers seem to like to clump hex numbers in clumps of 2 and 4. pgpB6pvkaP5kT.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Broadband ISPs taxed for generating light energy
On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 11:36:41AM -0400, Joe Loiacono wrote: Notice the date: October 10. That is the Indian equivalent of our April 1. Ah. Culture clash. Therefore the story can be relegated to the same coop as the IP-carrying pigeons. The sole justification for asking this is to help us all remember this for any further similar postings that might otherwise cause lengthy and weighty discussions on something so lightweight. Why is 10 October their 01 April? Thanks. -- Joe Yao --- This message is not an official statement of OSIS Center policies.
Re: Broadband ISPs taxed for generating light energy
On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 13:57:17 -0400, Joseph S D Yao [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 11:36:41AM -0400, Joe Loiacono wrote: Notice the date: October 10. That is the Indian equivalent of our April 1. Ah. Culture clash. Therefore the story can be relegated to the same coop as the IP-carrying pigeons. The sole justification for asking this is to help us all remember this for any further similar postings that might otherwise cause lengthy and weighty discussions on something so lightweight. Why is 10 October their 01 April? It's 10/10, which if viewed as the binary number 1010 is 10 base 10. Surely that has to mean something! (Well, I just made it up, but it sounds goodd) --Steven M. Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb
Re: Broadband ISPs taxed for generating light energy
On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 02:16:05PM -0400, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: ... It's 10/10, which if viewed as the binary number 1010 is 10 base 10. Surely that has to mean something! (Well, I just made it up, but it sounds goodd) ... Steve, think about it. For all base N, N 1, 10 base 10 is 10. 10/10 [I did notice that] is also [when distributed] half of 20/20, so perhaps half-sighted, or half-sensical. But now we are well and truly OT and may be stoned with virtual rocks. -- Joe Yao --- This message is not an official statement of OSIS Center policies.
Re: Broadband ISPs taxed for generating light energy
On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 11:36:03AM -0700, Gregory Hicks wrote: ... My wife (Korean) tole me yesterday that the past weekend was Chusok (or Korean 'Thanksgiving' - Actually, the Harvest Festival)... So maybe India has something similar...? ... But why would the Harvest Festival be the Trickster Day? And next I expect to see a made-up etymology why Korean Chusok is so like Hebrew Succoth. -- Joe Yao --- This message is not an official statement of OSIS Center policies.
Re: Broadband ISPs taxed for generating light energy
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:16:05 -0400 From: Steven M. Bellovin [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 13:57:17 -0400, Joseph S D Yao [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 11:36:41AM -0400, Joe Loiacono wrote: Notice the date: October 10. That is the Indian equivalent of our April 1. Ah. Culture clash. Therefore the story can be relegated to the same coop as the IP-carrying pigeons. The sole justification for asking this is to help us all remember this for any further similar postings that might otherwise cause lengthy and weighty discussions on something so lightweight. Why is 10 October their 01 April? It's 10/10, which if viewed as the binary number 1010 is 10 base 10. Surely that has to mean something! (Well, I just made it up, but it sounds goodd) My wife (Korean) tole me yesterday that the past weekend was Chusok (or Korean 'Thanksgiving' - Actually, the Harvest Festival)... So maybe India has something similar...? --Steven M. Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb - Gregory Hicks | Principal Systems Engineer Cadence Design Systems | Direct: 408.576.3609 555 River Oaks Pkwy M/S 9B1 San Jose, CA 95134 I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes. I will surely learn a great deal today. A democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding on what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the results of the decision. - Benjamin Franklin The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed. --Alexander Hamilton
Re: Broadband ISPs taxed for generating light energy
Joseph S D Yao wrote: On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 11:36:03AM -0700, Gregory Hicks wrote: ... My wife (Korean) tole me yesterday that the past weekend was Chusok (or Korean 'Thanksgiving' - Actually, the Harvest Festival)... So maybe India has something similar...? ... But why would the Harvest Festival be the Trickster Day? And next I expect to see a made-up etymology why Korean Chusok is so like Hebrew Succoth. You don't remember the Korean general on M*A*S*H toasting with L'chaim? ...as we swerve ever further off topic. -- Jeff Shultz
Re: Broadband ISPs taxed for generating light energy
Notice the date: October 10. That is the Indian equivalent of our April 1. According to http://www.april-fools.us/history-april-fools.htm, the Indian equivalent of April fools day is the Huli festival on March 31. jaap
Anyone with Earthlink available to troubleshoot?
Just curious if someone within Earthlink can contact me or test connectivity to AS 33260; traces in both directions stop at the Earthlink border. Tried calling the number listed with arin but the operator there only knows how to route calls if it's a DSL problem. Thanks, David
Re: that 4byte ASN you were considering...
On Oct 11, 2006, at 9:07 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 22:54:03 BST, Per Gregers Bilse said: The problem is that from and including A we can't talk about the damned things any more -- we resort to spelling out each number, with no inherent and natural feel for what we're talking about. An A380 has a maximum take-off weight of around 24E (two-four-E) tonnes. An A380 has a maximum take-off weight of around 590 (five hundred and ninety) tonnes. I've seen somebody pronounce C48C as 'ceety four hundred and eighty cee' - and the person listening grokked it. aety, beety, ceety, deety, eety, effty. aety and eighty are a bit too similar, unfortunately. There is also a convention defined at- 'x' prefix/suffix convention for pronouncing hexadecimal numbers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexadecimal -Doug
Re: Broadband ISPs taxed for generating light energy
On 10/11/06, Joseph S D Yao [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is 10 October their 01 April? Looks like you got october-fooled, Mr.Yao :) 10 October is just a date like any other .. those of us in India who want to play tricks on our friends stick to 4/1 like everybody else -- Suresh Ramasubramanian ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
