Re: Surcharge for providing Internet routes?
Just to clarify, there are both domestic transit and country specific paid peering products out there in Asia/Pacific region. and europe. and ... randy
MikroTik strikes again ?
MikroTik strikes again ? %BGP-6-ASPATH: Long AS path ... 39412 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 received from : More than configured MAXAS-LIMIT aut-num: AS39625 as-name: ARANEO-AS descr: Omni-Araneo's AS number org: ORG-OSTW3-RIPE import: from AS12968 action pref=100; accept ANY export: to AS12968 announce AS39625 import: from AS39412 action pref=100; accept ANY export: to AS39412 announce AS39625 admin-c: TW1273-RIPE tech-c: TW1273-RIPE mnt-by: AS12968-MNT mnt-routes: AS12968-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered
Re: MikroTik strikes again ?
Uhmokay...but why does anyone prepend their ASN that much? Are you saying the Mikrotik did that on purpose? Adrian M wrote: MikroTik strikes again ? %BGP-6-ASPATH: Long AS path ... 39412 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 received from : More than configured MAXAS-LIMIT aut-num: AS39625 as-name: ARANEO-AS descr: Omni-Araneo's AS number org: ORG-OSTW3-RIPE import: from AS12968 action pref=100; accept ANY export: to AS12968 announce AS39625 import: from AS39412 action pref=100; accept ANY export: to AS39412 announce AS39625 admin-c: TW1273-RIPE tech-c: TW1273-RIPE mnt-by: AS12968-MNT mnt-routes: AS12968-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered
RE: MikroTik strikes again ?
Adrian M wrote: MikroTik strikes again ? %BGP-6-ASPATH: Long AS path ... 39412 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 From: Bret Clark [mailto:bcl...@spectraaccess.com] Sent: Monday, 3 May 2010 8:26 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: MikroTik strikes again ? Uhmokay...but why does anyone prepend their ASN that much? Are you saying the Mikrotik did that on purpose? MikroTik asks for an amount of prepends rather than what ASN to prepend with. There was a bug in an old version that would modulus the ASN with 256 and prepend that many times. In this case 39625 modulo 256 = 201 prepends.
Re: MikroTik strikes again ?
It's not really a bug, only a matter of habbit I guess :) I read this some time ago in nanog list: http://www.renesys.com/blog/2009/02/longer-is-not-better.shtml regards, Christian Bret Clark wrote: Uhmokay...but why does anyone prepend their ASN that much? Are you saying the Mikrotik did that on purpose? Adrian M wrote: MikroTik strikes again ? %BGP-6-ASPATH: Long AS path ... 39412 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 received from : More than configured MAXAS-LIMIT aut-num: AS39625 as-name: ARANEO-AS descr: Omni-Araneo's AS number org: ORG-OSTW3-RIPE import: from AS12968 action pref=100; accept ANY export: to AS12968 announce AS39625 import: from AS39412 action pref=100; accept ANY export: to AS39412 announce AS39625 admin-c: TW1273-RIPE tech-c: TW1273-RIPE mnt-by: AS12968-MNT mnt-routes: AS12968-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered
Re: MikroTik strikes again ?
Tim Warnock wrote: Adrian M wrote: MikroTik strikes again ? %BGP-6-ASPATH: Long AS path ... 39412 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 39625 From: Bret Clark [mailto:bcl...@spectraaccess.com] Sent: Monday, 3 May 2010 8:26 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: MikroTik strikes again ? Uhmokay...but why does anyone prepend their ASN that much? Are you saying the Mikrotik did that on purpose? MikroTik asks for an amount of prepends rather than what ASN to prepend with. There was a bug in an old version that would modulus the ASN with 256 and prepend that many times. In this case 39625 modulo 256 = 201 prepends. Yeah...guess I see why that would be a problem.
Re: Surcharge for providing Internet routes?
On May 3, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Will Hargrave wrote: On 3 May 2010, at 05:27, Matthew Petach wrote: In Asia, there is a popular, but incorrectly named product offering that many ISPs sell called domestic transit which they sell for price $X; for full routes you often pay $2X-$3X. I grind my teeth every time I hear it, since transit doesn't mean to select parts of the internet in most people's eyes. It's really a paid peering offering, but no matter how much I try to correct people, the habit of calling it domestic transit still persists. :( This is relatively common in europe too - normally under the name 'partial transit'. At least they are naming it correctly. paid peering: [provider AS] + [providers customers] partial transit: [provider AS] + [providers customers] + [providers peers] Pricing is typically 5-20% of the cost of full routes, and will provide in the region of 40-120k routes. And pricing it correctly! Let's see, transit is at $1/Mbps, so I can get 120K prefixes for $0.05/Mbps? snicker -- TTFN, patrick
any bring your own bandwidth IPv4 over IPv4 tunnel merchants?
Like many people, I can't justify the expense of commercial IP connectivity for my residence. As a result, I deal with dynamic IP addresses; dns issues; and limitations on the services that I can host at my residence. It just struck me that in the same way that IPv6 connectivity can be done via tunneling over IPv4 (Hurricane Electric, etc.), that static IPv4 addressability could be offered in a similar fashion. Some my question is: Does anyone offer (probably bandwidth restricted) IPv4 over IPv4 tunneling (with static IPs) commercially? I realize that making use of such a service MIGHT violate Terms of Service agreements, but that is going to vary from provider to provider and doesn't make offering such a service inherently wrong. Other possible reasons such services might be desired include wanting access to Internet services which are regionally restricted. (Again TOS violation possibilities MAY or MAY NOT apply.) In the (very?) long term, IPv4 over IPv6 tunneling could end up being one way that organizations can get IPv4 connectivity when the default changes from only-IPv4 to only-IPv6. (Yeah, I know that day may never come...) Thanks, Bill Bogstad
Re: any bring your own bandwidth IPv4 over IPv4 tunnel merchants?
http://www.google.com/search?q=vpn+service Encryption would be a side benefit for your purpose. On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Bill Bogstad bogs...@pobox.com wrote: Like many people, I can't justify the expense of commercial IP connectivity for my residence. As a result, I deal with dynamic IP addresses; dns issues; and limitations on the services that I can host at my residence. It just struck me that in the same way that IPv6 connectivity can be done via tunneling over IPv4 (Hurricane Electric, etc.), that static IPv4 addressability could be offered in a similar fashion. Some my question is: Does anyone offer (probably bandwidth restricted) IPv4 over IPv4 tunneling (with static IPs) commercially? I realize that making use of such a service MIGHT violate Terms of Service agreements, but that is going to vary from provider to provider and doesn't make offering such a service inherently wrong. Other possible reasons such services might be desired include wanting access to Internet services which are regionally restricted. (Again TOS violation possibilities MAY or MAY NOT apply.) In the (very?) long term, IPv4 over IPv6 tunneling could end up being one way that organizations can get IPv4 connectivity when the default changes from only-IPv4 to only-IPv6. (Yeah, I know that day may never come...) Thanks, Bill Bogstad -- Brandon Galbraith Voice: 630.492.0464
Re: any bring your own bandwidth IPv4 over IPv4 tunnel merchants?
On Mon, 3 May 2010 14:12:45 -0400 Bill Bogstad bogs...@pobox.com wrote: Like many people, I can't justify the expense of commercial IP connectivity for my residence. As a result, I deal with dynamic IP addresses; dns issues; and limitations on the services that I can host at my residence. It just struck me that in the same way that IPv6 connectivity can be done via tunneling over IPv4 (Hurricane Electric, etc.), that static IPv4 addressability could be offered in a similar fashion. Some my question is: Does anyone offer (probably bandwidth restricted) IPv4 over IPv4 tunneling (with static IPs) commercially? I realize that making use of such a service MIGHT violate Terms of Service agreements, but that is going to vary from provider to provider and doesn't make offering such a service inherently wrong. Other possible reasons such services might be desired include wanting access to Internet services which are regionally restricted. (Again TOS violation possibilities MAY or MAY NOT apply.) In the (very?) long term, IPv4 over IPv6 tunneling could end up being one way that organizations can get IPv4 connectivity when the default changes from only-IPv4 to only-IPv6. (Yeah, I know that day may never come...) Holly shit... Where do you live? In Ukraine we have almost no difference (well it is different from one company to another) between commercial and residental setups. At least it is so with smaller providers like one I have at home and one I work for (they are two different companies). So it seems very very strange to me you need to justify anything with your network operator. -- With best regards, Gregory Edigarov
Re: any bring your own bandwidth IPv4 over IPv4 tunnel merchants?
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 12:12, Bill Bogstad bogs...@pobox.com wrote: Like many people, I can't justify the expense of commercial IP connectivity for my residence. As a result, I deal with dynamic IP addresses; dns issues; and limitations on the services that I can host at my residence. snip Not sure where you live / what service is available to you but many business DSL, cable and fixed-wireless offerings are quite reasonably priced these days. I pay about $100/mo for 16m x 2m and a /28 from my local cable operator - which is likely less than residential service plus a vpn/tunnel service. It sure isn't a fiber metro-E connection but it does let me run my various servers out of the house. Perhaps something to look into. $0.02 ~Chris Thanks, Bill Bogstad -- @ChrisGrundemann weblog.chrisgrundemann.com www.burningwiththebush.com www.coisoc.org
Re: any bring your own bandwidth IPv4 over IPv4 tunnel merchants?
On Mon, 3 May 2010 14:12:45 -0400 Bill Bogstad bogs...@pobox.com wrote: Like many people, I can't justify the expense of commercial IP connectivity for my residence. As a result, I deal with dynamic IP .. On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Gregory Edigarov g...@bestnet.kharkov.ua wrote: Holly shit... Where do you live? In Ukraine we have almost no difference (well it is different from one company to another) between commercial and residental setups. At least it is so with smaller providers like one I have at home and one I work for (they are two different companies). So it seems very very strange to me you need to justify anything with your network operator. In most of the US, the standard residential ISP service gives you - some amount of bandwidth, usually asynchronous - dynamic IP address (with static available for a higher price) - some service quality and repair speed guarantees - many ISPs, especially cable modem, have annoying policies that say you can't run a server at home. But many don't. - some ISPs are starting to get the idea tha Most of the ISPs that provide that kind of service offer business service using the residential technology - higher price - better service quality and repair speed guarantees - static IP addresses, and you can run a server -- Thanks; Bill Note that this isn't my regular email account - It's still experimental so far. And Google probably logs and indexes everything you send it.
Re: Surcharge for providing Internet routes?
Back when I was on that side of the house, if you bought transit from 7018 and were managing your own routers, you got your choice of BGP or static, and BGP could have full routes, our-customer routes, default routes, and maybe some other variants. No charge for any of those options, but if you wanted full routes you'd need a hefty enough router, and if you thought you wanted full routes on your T1 line we'd offer you some hints about that not being a good idea. Other than that, full routes burned a bit of extra bandwidth, so if you had usage-based pricing that might have some minor effects. (If we were managing your routers, you usually weren't in the dual-homing business, or at least we'd be charging you more for a fatter router and managing the extra complexity of whatever you needed done locally, but all of that was just router management pricing, not network pricing.) -- Thanks; Bill Note that this isn't my regular email account - It's still experimental so far. And Google probably logs and indexes everything you send it.
Re: any bring your own bandwidth IPv4 over IPv4 tunnel merchants?
On Mon, 2010-05-03 at 14:12 -0400, Bill Bogstad wrote: Like many people, I can't justify the expense of commercial IP connectivity for my residence. As a result, I deal with dynamic IP addresses; dns issues; and limitations on the services that I can host at my residence. It just struck me that in the same way that IPv6 connectivity can be done via tunneling over IPv4 (Hurricane Electric, etc.), that static IPv4 addressability could be offered in a similar fashion. Some my question is: Does anyone offer (probably bandwidth restricted) IPv4 over IPv4 tunneling (with static IPs) commercially? I realize that making use of such a service MIGHT violate Terms of Service agreements, but that is going to vary from provider to provider and doesn't make offering such a service inherently wrong. Other possible reasons such services might be desired include wanting access to Internet services which are regionally restricted. (Again TOS violation possibilities MAY or MAY NOT apply.) In the (very?) long term, IPv4 over IPv6 tunneling could end up being one way that organizations can get IPv4 connectivity when the default changes from only-IPv4 to only-IPv6. (Yeah, I know that day may never come...) Thanks, Bill Bogstad You could do this with a VPS. Make sure they run Xen or KVM or VMware though, so you have control over the routing table. William
Re: any bring your own bandwidth IPv4 over IPv4 tunnel merchants?
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Gregory Edigarov g...@bestnet.kharkov.ua wrote: On Mon, 3 May 2010 14:12:45 -0400 Holly shit... Where do you live? In Ukraine we have almost no difference (well it is different from one company to another) between commercial and residental setups. At least it is so with smaller providers like one I have at home and one I work for (they are two different companies). So it seems very very strange to me you need to justify anything with your network operator. North America. Specifically the Boston metro area of the USA. It's fairly common here to put all kinds of type of service restrictions on residential Internet connectivity. From what I've read on NANOG over the years, I thought this was common practice worldwide, but it sounds like that might not be the case in the Ukraine. Thanks, Bill Bogstad
Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping
I'm trying to model ADSL access link bandwidth shaping. With a link of 18Mbps, I'm using a token bucket filter (tc + netem) to model 10Mbps, 8Mbps and 2Mbps access plans. I have a couple of questions: - do ISPs typically use token bucket filters with large bursts to shape traffic? - what kind of burst sizes and latencies/limits are typically used for the filter? Thanks in advance, Srikanth
Re: Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping
Srikanth Sundaresan wrote: I'm trying to model ADSL access link bandwidth shaping. With a link of 18Mbps, I'm using a token bucket filter (tc + netem) to model 10Mbps, 8Mbps and 2Mbps access plans. I have a couple of questions: - do ISPs typically use token bucket filters with large bursts to shape traffic? - what kind of burst sizes and latencies/limits are typically used for the filter? You will definitely have to account for latency. For emulating cable traffic, latencies (in the USA) will be about 60-80ms to typical sites. Burst mode in my experience occurs only for about the first 15 seconds, then is throttled back (though not always; seems to depend on time of day). For DSL, I seem to recall latency being about 90-110ms (note, I haven't used DSL in many years). Burst mode was generally not noticeable or available, that is, you got the same speed regardless of downloading a 1MB jpeg or a 640MB .iso file. IMHO, IME, ISTR, YMMV... --Patrick
Re: Emulating ADSL bandwidth shaping
On May 3, 2010, at 9:19 PM, Patrick Giagnocavo wrote: - do ISPs typically use token bucket filters with large bursts to shape traffic? - what kind of burst sizes and latencies/limits are typically used for the filter? You will definitely have to account for latency. For emulating cable traffic, latencies (in the USA) will be about 60-80ms to typical sites. Burst mode in my experience occurs only for about the first 15 seconds, then is throttled back (though not always; seems to depend on time of day). And queues of 1 second at line rate are not uncommon, so if you load the link, things lag. For DSL, I seem to recall latency being about 90-110ms (note, I haven't used DSL in many years). Burst mode was generally not noticeable or available, that is, you got the same speed regardless of downloading a 1MB jpeg or a 640MB .iso file. Now more typically 40ms. And yeah, no bursts over normal line rate. Most turn down line rate for other plans, not shape.
