Re: v6 cdn problems
On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 12:51 AM, Jeroen Massar jer...@massar.ch wrote: There used to be a handy ipv6@google address for reporting things. This nowadays bounces. yes, it changed to noc@ I think. and yup, damian (and a few other folk) beat the mtu issue with a cold trout.
Re: v6 cdn problems
On 2014-11-10 09:10, Christopher Morrow wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 12:51 AM, Jeroen Massar jer...@massar.ch wrote: There used to be a handy ipv6@google address for reporting things. This nowadays bounces. yes, it changed to noc@ I think. Thus, in case of an IPv6 issue, contacting n...@google.com is the right thing to do? Good to hear that the folks there are aware of IPv6. and yup, damian (and a few other folk) beat the mtu issue with a cold trout. Thanks for that. From a message by Lorenzo: http://lists.cluenet.de/pipermail/ipv6-ops/2014-November/010278.html it seems Google is breaking PMTUD on purpose preferring to force the MSS to a minimum value instead. But the problem there is not PMTUD, but what is described in: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-v6ops-jaeggli-pmtud-ecmp-problem-01 Which makes sense on a Google-scale of connections. I am not sure that breaking PTMUD and forcing MSS is the correct answer though. Forcing MSS is likely a good intermediary step, actually fixing the load-balancer is a better one though. I am now wondering if that is what is hitting Akamai too, as that would explain the problem being seen: contacting the same IP sometimes works and sometimes does not; which could be a result of the real endnode not always seeing the correct ICMP and thus knowing the correct MTU. Greets, Jeroen
Fwd: [v6ops] IPv6 MTU Flow-label.... (related to draft-v6ops-pmtud-ecmp-problem-01)
Forwarding this so that everybody can comment on this nasty proposal ;) Forcing replies to v6...@ietf.org where they likely should be taking place as that is where recently the mentioned draft was accepted as a WG item. Greets, Jeroen Forwarded Message Subject: [v6ops] IPv6 MTU Flow-label (related to draft-v6ops-pmtud-ecmp-problem-01) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 11:31:52 +0100 From: Jeroen Massar jer...@massar.ch Organization: Massar To: i...@ietf.org, v6...@ietf.org Hola folks (and folks in BCC ;), With the recent Google and Akamai outages (latter still ongoing afaik), it came to light that the cause is likely the model and problem described here: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-v6ops-pmtud-ecmp-problem-01 which previously was: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-v6ops-jaeggli-pmtud-ecmp-problem-01 Or shortly described: terminating an IP address at different hosts and having the balancer box not knowing where to deliver the ICMP PTBs that get send for large packets. One of the suggestions there is to lower the MSS for every connection by forcing it (either on the loadbalancer or on the final host) to a value that works everywhere: the one for an MTU of 1280. MSS only applies to TCP, and people like Google are coming out with QUIC and other schemes. As we really do not want an Internet at an MTU of 1280, why don't we indicate in the packet what the MTU is when it is diverting from the norm? What if we instead let a router that sources a packet from a link or is going to transmit a packet over a link 1500 indicate with that packet that that packet came from/is going to is a link with a MTU 1500. We can't use an additional extension header, as adding anything would mean we might hit the MTU of the packet and we have other issues. As our least-known-used field is the FlowLabel field, we could abuse that and have enough bits there to stuff our data. What if we define that when the first 4 bits are set to 0xF (all one) that the rest (16bits) defines the MTU of the link (MTU 0 - 65k)? (We could even use a 'base of 1280' and thus 0xf = 1280 MTU, but possibly it is better to state value of 0xf0500 is invalid) Thus allowing when the first 4 bits are not set to all-1 that the flowlabel field is a normal flowlabel field ala RFC6437. We could even state Only set this MTU option when the FlowLabel field == 0 to avoid incompatibility (though I do not expect any as I rarely see packets with the field non-0...) Thus given a network like: [H1] 2001:db8:1500::1/64 | mtu = 1500 2001:db8:1500::a/64 [RA] 2001:db8:1501::a/64 | mtu = 1500 2001:db8:1501::b/64 [RB] 2001:db8:1480::b/64 | mtu = 1480 2001:db8:1480::c/64 [RC] 2001:db8:1280::c/64 | mtu = 1280 2001:db8:1280::d/64 [RD] 2001:db8:9000::d/64 | mtu = 9000 2001:db8:9000::2/64 [H2] RA receives packet, src+dst interface are MTU=1500, thus does nothing RB receives packet, src = 1500, dst = 1480, thus sets FL = 0xf05c8 RC receives packet, src = 1480, dst = 1280, thus sets FL = 0xf0500 RD receives packet, src = 1280, dst = 9000, thus sets FL = 0xf0500 (again, just set is quicker than checking) Now even if H2 is a loadbalancer, if the flow is just forwarded (without TTL change btw...) the destination receives it correctly. The disadvantage is of course that you lose the ability to balance based on the FlowLabel, but if we go with only change when not 0 then there was one anyway. Also you got src+dst which is 256bits, which should be pretty good already and optionally next-header + the contents of the header if you want that. Note that as we have no checksum in IPv6, there is little overhead to do this kind of forwarding, HopLimit already needs updating, this is just another field to update. In another model from the above, we could even just let every hop set the known lowest MTU. In that case, H1 would set 0xf05dc in the packet, and then it gets lowered automatically. Which would also mean that a pure 9000 path would nicely work suddenly as everybody knows that 9000 will fit :) Greets, Jeroen ___ v6ops mailing list v6...@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops
Re: I am about to inherit 26 miles of dark fiber. What do I do with it?
OutSide Plant design(OSP) is a specialized field worthy of significant study. The consequences of getting a OSP design wrong are much harder to fix than getting a network design wrong. You are designing for *20 years*. If you are at the point of asking a mailing list NANOG, which, um, is not focused on OSP expertise, it is a really, really good idea to concentrate on hiring the best consultant. I have viewed this train wreck too many times. On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 10:49 PM, Scott Weeks sur...@mauigateway.com wrote: --- fkitt...@gwi.net wrote: From: Fletcher Kittredge fkitt...@gwi.net The below is a really sad story. Condolences on the coming trainwreck. I hope you get someone on staff or on consult that understands outside plant architecture, because it is much more important and complex topic than you seem to realize. - Help guide and build knowledge instead of publicly beat down. scott -- Fletcher Kittredge GWI 8 Pomerleau Street Biddeford, ME 04005-9457 207-602-1134
Re: I am about to inherit 26 miles of dark fiber. What do I do with it?
Gah! Municipal fiber networks can be total failures or the best investment a community can make. It all depends on the implementation. There are eight steps one needs to get right: 1) public policy goals, 2) technical goals meet the public policy goals, 3) survey community demographics and existing network assets, 4) build community consensus, 5) select the right business plan and obtain funding, 6) technical design of OSP and operating structure, 7) RFI/RFP, 8)select EPC vendors and fanatically oversee construction. Steps 1-5 are the most important and the level of success will depend on the quality of their implementation. If a half-assed job is done at any step, the outcome will not be good. This discussion has been focused on step 6: technical design. It is impossible to do a good technical design if you don't understand the problem you are trying to solve. There are vast differences between different municipalities public policy goals and business plans. It doesn't make sense to copy Chattanooga's implementation because their situation is different than yours (you have an existing fiber network, which is always a warning sign. They are serving all residents and businesses and you imply you are focused on businesses.) Focus on developing a deep understanding of what problem the city leaders are trying to solve, then figure out how to hire a competent OSP design person and make them do a good job. This is a hard task in and of itself. The failure of one municipal broadband system reflects badly on all municipal broadband systems. Good luck. On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 11:22 PM, ITechGeek i...@itechgeek.com wrote: I would say the OP is starting out right by reaching out to people who can give advice and point him in the right direction. I would say the first place to start would be budget. I don't think calling this is a trainwreck before it even leaves paper isn't very helpful. One option might be to start in phases, if his POPs can provide decent coverage, maybe start out w/ a wireless solution to start getting customers on the system and start getting revenue coming in (or if this is a city/town backed venture, get voters to see how useful this can be to maybe get more budget for future rollout). Also talk to business customers to see if you extend fiber to them, what kind of services will they want. If you can get large customers to say Yes, I will or would like to purchase a gig of bandwidth between two office or a gig of Internet access, that should help w/ either city or private finance backing to show there will be demand. You might even be able to get help from some companies (If you contact corporate or gov't sales for Cisco/Nortel/etc., they can probably have some techs bring in some equipment for small scale shows). If this is a city trying to do this, reach out to places like Chattanooga, TN or Lafayette, LA or any number of other cities (mostly in foreign countries) that have successfully done this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LUSFiber http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPB On a final note, the Stockholm model I've always thought was the best idea (even before I heard Stockholm invested in it) - Stockholm owns the infrastructure and private companies provide the actual customer services across the city owned infrastructure (let true competition happen instead of the monopoly and duopoly in most cities and if it doesn't work out, you can always start selling services later if true competition doesn't work). http://cis471.blogspot.com/2009/04/why-is-connectivty-in-stockholm-so-much.html (This was the most up to date page I could find in English doing a comparison). --- -ITG (ITechGeek) i...@itechgeek.com https://itg.nu/ GPG Keys: https://itg.nu/contact/gpg-key Preferred GPG Key: Fingerprint: AB46B7E363DA7E04ABFA57852AA9910A DCB1191A Google Voice: +1-703-493-0128 / Twitter: ITechGeek / Facebook: http://fb.me/Jbwa.Net On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 10:25 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: I would suggest that you do some rapid field deployment education in regards to fiber networks. You might consider joining WISPA and or FISPA (two industry associations), where you have folks building out fiber networks, who are very willing to share their experience and tell you what is working and what is not working. Working with Dark fiber can be as simple as you like, or as complicated as you want it to be. However this is one area that it is not un-common to make things appear a lot more expensive and complicated then what they have to be... Depending on what you are inheriting, and what you have to be responsible for, I would suggest that you spend some time on the web, local library, and some of the OSP related publications to get a good understanding of what is done and whybefore just falling for industry
Re: I am about to inherit 26 miles of dark fiber. What do I do with it?
I never said copy Chattanooga's implementation, I just said reach out to them. While every city is different, he might be able to find out problems other cities had and how they got around those issues. Maybe he might get a few problems/fixes from Chattanooga that might help, maybe a few from Lafayette, maybe none. Maybe he might find something in one of those cities implementations that he thinks would help his, maybe not. Maybe one of them had good or bad experiences w/ a consultant that he might want to use or stay away from. Taking a few extra days to learn about people's successes (Hell, I would even call the cities that failed to see someone can say why they failed) might help the OP out. It never hurts to call or email them. --- -ITG (ITechGeek) i...@itechgeek.com https://itg.nu/ GPG Keys: https://itg.nu/contact/gpg-key Preferred GPG Key: Fingerprint: AB46B7E363DA7E04ABFA57852AA9910A DCB1191A Google Voice: +1-703-493-0128 / Twitter: ITechGeek / Facebook: http://fb.me/Jbwa.Net On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 7:40 AM, Fletcher Kittredge fkitt...@gwi.net wrote: Gah! Municipal fiber networks can be total failures or the best investment a community can make. It all depends on the implementation. There are eight steps one needs to get right: 1) public policy goals, 2) technical goals meet the public policy goals, 3) survey community demographics and existing network assets, 4) build community consensus, 5) select the right business plan and obtain funding, 6) technical design of OSP and operating structure, 7) RFI/RFP, 8)select EPC vendors and fanatically oversee construction. Steps 1-5 are the most important and the level of success will depend on the quality of their implementation. If a half-assed job is done at any step, the outcome will not be good. This discussion has been focused on step 6: technical design. It is impossible to do a good technical design if you don't understand the problem you are trying to solve. There are vast differences between different municipalities public policy goals and business plans. It doesn't make sense to copy Chattanooga's implementation because their situation is different than yours (you have an existing fiber network, which is always a warning sign. They are serving all residents and businesses and you imply you are focused on businesses.) Focus on developing a deep understanding of what problem the city leaders are trying to solve, then figure out how to hire a competent OSP design person and make them do a good job. This is a hard task in and of itself. The failure of one municipal broadband system reflects badly on all municipal broadband systems. Good luck. On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 11:22 PM, ITechGeek i...@itechgeek.com wrote: I would say the OP is starting out right by reaching out to people who can give advice and point him in the right direction. I would say the first place to start would be budget. I don't think calling this is a trainwreck before it even leaves paper isn't very helpful. One option might be to start in phases, if his POPs can provide decent coverage, maybe start out w/ a wireless solution to start getting customers on the system and start getting revenue coming in (or if this is a city/town backed venture, get voters to see how useful this can be to maybe get more budget for future rollout). Also talk to business customers to see if you extend fiber to them, what kind of services will they want. If you can get large customers to say Yes, I will or would like to purchase a gig of bandwidth between two office or a gig of Internet access, that should help w/ either city or private finance backing to show there will be demand. You might even be able to get help from some companies (If you contact corporate or gov't sales for Cisco/Nortel/etc., they can probably have some techs bring in some equipment for small scale shows). If this is a city trying to do this, reach out to places like Chattanooga, TN or Lafayette, LA or any number of other cities (mostly in foreign countries) that have successfully done this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LUSFiber http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPB On a final note, the Stockholm model I've always thought was the best idea (even before I heard Stockholm invested in it) - Stockholm owns the infrastructure and private companies provide the actual customer services across the city owned infrastructure (let true competition happen instead of the monopoly and duopoly in most cities and if it doesn't work out, you can always start selling services later if true competition doesn't work). http://cis471.blogspot.com/2009/04/why-is-connectivty-in-stockholm-so-much.html (This was the most up to date page I could find in English doing a comparison). --- -ITG
Equinix Virginia - Ethernet OOB suggestions
Dear List, I've got an upcoming deployment in Equinix (DC10) and I'm struggling to find a provider who can give me a 100Mbit port (With a commit of about 5-10Mbit) with a /23 or /24 of public space , for OOB purposes. We had hoped to use Equinixs services, however they're limiting us to a single public IP. I'm also open to other solutions - xDSL or similar, but emphasis is on cheap and on-net. Cheers /Ruairi
Re: Equinix Virginia - Ethernet OOB suggestions
Couldn't you put a router or VPN system on the single IP they are giving you and use RFC1918 addressing space? OOB doesn't normally justify a /24 let alone a /23. On 10 November 2014 13:18, Ruairi Carroll ruairi.carr...@gmail.com wrote: Dear List, I've got an upcoming deployment in Equinix (DC10) and I'm struggling to find a provider who can give me a 100Mbit port (With a commit of about 5-10Mbit) with a /23 or /24 of public space , for OOB purposes. We had hoped to use Equinixs services, however they're limiting us to a single public IP. I'm also open to other solutions - xDSL or similar, but emphasis is on cheap and on-net. Cheers /Ruairi
Re: Equinix Virginia - Ethernet OOB suggestions
Hey, VPN setup is not really a viable option (for us) in this scenario. Honestly, I'd prefer to just call it done already and have a VPN but due to certain restraints, we have to go down this route. /Ruairi On 10 November 2014 14:38, Alistair Mackenzie magics...@gmail.com wrote: Couldn't you put a router or VPN system on the single IP they are giving you and use RFC1918 addressing space? OOB doesn't normally justify a /24 let alone a /23. On 10 November 2014 13:18, Ruairi Carroll ruairi.carr...@gmail.com wrote: Dear List, I've got an upcoming deployment in Equinix (DC10) and I'm struggling to find a provider who can give me a 100Mbit port (With a commit of about 5-10Mbit) with a /23 or /24 of public space , for OOB purposes. We had hoped to use Equinixs services, however they're limiting us to a single public IP. I'm also open to other solutions - xDSL or similar, but emphasis is on cheap and on-net. Cheers /Ruairi
Re: Equinix Virginia - Ethernet OOB suggestions
I'd be doubtful if anyone will feel like offering a /23 with OOB as justification these days, sadly. Good luck nonetheless. On 11/10/2014 午後 11:00, Ruairi Carroll wrote: Hey, VPN setup is not really a viable option (for us) in this scenario. Honestly, I'd prefer to just call it done already and have a VPN but due to certain restraints, we have to go down this route. /Ruairi On 10 November 2014 14:38, Alistair Mackenzie magics...@gmail.com wrote: Couldn't you put a router or VPN system on the single IP they are giving you and use RFC1918 addressing space? OOB doesn't normally justify a /24 let alone a /23. On 10 November 2014 13:18, Ruairi Carroll ruairi.carr...@gmail.com wrote: Dear List, I've got an upcoming deployment in Equinix (DC10) and I'm struggling to find a provider who can give me a 100Mbit port (With a commit of about 5-10Mbit) with a /23 or /24 of public space , for OOB purposes. We had hoped to use Equinixs services, however they're limiting us to a single public IP. I'm also open to other solutions - xDSL or similar, but emphasis is on cheap and on-net. Cheers /Ruairi
RE: I am about to inherit 26 miles of dark fiber. What do I do with it?
Misc thoughts... Legal I don't know your background, but I recommend you get with the EFF and/or SANS and get a good idea of possible legal ramifications, e.g. if you choose to be an internet provider vs. an internet services provider vs. a private network provider or a telecommunications service or some mixture. These choices can really change the legal (and business) landscape for you. Security If you have a CISSP or equivalent, then you probably know what you are doing from a security standpoint. If not, then I recommend you proceed with caution--maybe take an intensive general course: physical security, protecting your customers, providing extra security services (IPS, DDOS protection, etc.). Maintenance Throw some money in the pot for monthly emergencies. Road work. Backhoes. Fibre splicing. Bad pink boxen. Converters. FX modules. Extra switches for fast swap-outs. A fast car and a fast technician who is fast with duct tape and bubble gum. Network Diagnostics You'll be doing a lot of proving it isn't me. Get a fast laptop with an outstanding NIC and make sure you are up to speed with Wireshark and presentations. If you aren't a wizard with Wireshark, then take the 4-12 hours it takes to become one: memorize the hot keys, figure out the advanced filtering, etc. NMAP and SOCAT as well--you'll want to be able to show that your voodoo works, and perhaps even point the finger towards the real problems. A Nice Suit Don't underestimate the power of a nice suit. It reassures your customers. And that'll be 50% of your job. It's all about professionalism until they get to know you. Your Audience If your audience is 90% gamers, you might consider putting together a gamer's NOC. Web page showing pings and lag for various games... traffic flows, bandwidth, switch utilization, the most popular servers, info. Maybe host some games on local servers. Put together a small VMWare Cloud just for that. If your audience is 90% online retail, maybe put in a Secure Zone, a DMZ they can host behind, maybe some Palo Alto firewalls that do WAP (web app protection) and SQL Protection and etc. Or just use an active IPS. Etc. Good luck! --p -Original Message- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Lorell Hathcock Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2014 8:18 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: [EXTERNAL]I am about to inherit 26 miles of dark fiber. What do I do with it? All: A job opportunity just came my way to work with 26 miles of dark fiber in and around a city in Texas. The intent is for me to deliver internet and private network services to business customers in this area. I relish the thought of starting from scratch to build a network right from the start instead of inheriting and fixing someone else's mess. That being said, what suggestions does the group have for building a new network using existing dark fiber? MPLS backbone? Like all businesses these days, I will likely have to build the lit backbone as I add customers. So how would you recommend scaling the network? I have six strands of SMF that connect within municipal facilities. Each new customer will be a new build out from the nearest point. Because of having only six strands, I don't anticipate selling dark fiber. I believe I need to conserve fibers so that it would be lit services that I offer to customers. I would like to offer speeds up to 10 GB. Thoughts are appreciated! Sincerely, Lorell Hathcock
RE: I am about to inherit 26 miles of dark fiber. What do I do with it?
+1 to what Faisal said. And before you take possession I recommend you do a thorough fibre test. Check for all aspects of the fibre--signal deterioration and etc. Shoot the fibre and map it out, it's strengths and weaknesses, so you know what you are dealing with. --Patrick Darden -Original Message- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2014 9:26 PM To: Lorell Hathcock Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: I am about to inherit 26 miles of dark fiber. What do I do with it? I would suggest that you do some rapid field deployment education in regards to fiber networks. You might consider joining WISPA and or FISPA (two industry associations), where you have folks building out fiber networks, who are very willing to share their experience and tell you what is working and what is not working. Working with Dark fiber can be as simple as you like, or as complicated as you want it to be. However this is one area that it is not un-common to make things appear a lot more expensive and complicated then what they have to be... Depending on what you are inheriting, and what you have to be responsible for, I would suggest that you spend some time on the web, local library, and some of the OSP related publications to get a good understanding of what is done and whybefore just falling for industry jargon. I should be fun... :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom - Original Message - From: Lorell Hathcock lor...@hathcock.org To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Sunday, November 9, 2014 9:18:15 PM Subject: I am about to inherit 26 miles of dark fiber. What do I do with it? All: A job opportunity just came my way to work with 26 miles of dark fiber in and around a city in Texas. The intent is for me to deliver internet and private network services to business customers in this area. I relish the thought of starting from scratch to build a network right from the start instead of inheriting and fixing someone else's mess. That being said, what suggestions does the group have for building a new network using existing dark fiber? MPLS backbone? Like all businesses these days, I will likely have to build the lit backbone as I add customers. So how would you recommend scaling the network? I have six strands of SMF that connect within municipal facilities. Each new customer will be a new build out from the nearest point. Because of having only six strands, I don't anticipate selling dark fiber. I believe I need to conserve fibers so that it would be lit services that I offer to customers. I would like to offer speeds up to 10 GB. Thoughts are appreciated! Sincerely, Lorell Hathcock
Re: Equinix Virginia - Ethernet OOB suggestions
Hey, VPN setup is not really a viable option (for us) in this scenario. Honestly, I'd prefer to just call it done already and have a VPN but due to certain restraints, we have to go down this route. Without explaining the restraints, this kinda boils down to 'cuz we want it, which stopped being good justification many years ago. I doubt you'll find many takers who would want to provide you with a circuit for a few Mbps with a /23 for OOB purposes 'just cuz. I note that we're present in Equinix Ashburn and could do it, and that this is basically a nonstarter for us. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again. - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples.
Re: Equinix Virginia - Ethernet OOB suggestions
On 2014-11-10 15:20, Joe Greco wrote: Hey, VPN setup is not really a viable option (for us) in this scenario. Honestly, I'd prefer to just call it done already and have a VPN but due to certain restraints, we have to go down this route. Without explaining the restraints, this kinda boils down to 'cuz we want it, which stopped being good justification many years ago. I doubt you'll find many takers who would want to provide you with a circuit for a few Mbps with a /23 for OOB purposes 'just cuz. just cuz ack'ing packets for the spam we are sending will be possible then. Is likely what goes through most people's minds... Greets, Jeroen
Re: I am about to inherit 26 miles of dark fiber. What do I do with it?
While short and to the point, what Fletcher said is likely to be the best advice in this thread. Getting someone on staff who understands *both* outside plant architecture and balance sheets... and can co-develop a business model that involves the lateral build-out from the six POPs around town without going broke is the hard part. Six POPs, six strands, MPLS backbone vs. selling waves could be the concept for the opening lines to a sad country song where the protagonist doesn't realize that the long pole in the tent is the making the edge work (someone please run with this and get a musical lightning talk at San Antonio!) -r Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net writes: WoW !.. that was a rather cruel and un-called for ! How does that saying go.Don't say anything, if you cannot say anything nice ! Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom - Original Message - From: Fletcher Kittredge fkitt...@gwi.net To: Lorell Hathcock lor...@hathcock.org Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Sunday, November 9, 2014 9:56:08 PM Subject: Re: I am about to inherit 26 miles of dark fiber. What do I do with it? The below is a really sad story. Condolences on the coming trainwreck. I hope you get someone on staff or on consult that understands outside plant architecture, because it is much more important and complex topic than you seem to realize. On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 9:18 PM, Lorell Hathcock lor...@hathcock.org wrote: All: A job opportunity just came my way to work with 26 miles of dark fiber in and around a city in Texas. The intent is for me to deliver internet and private network services to business customers in this area. I relish the thought of starting from scratch to build a network right from the start instead of inheriting and fixing someone else's mess. That being said, what suggestions does the group have for building a new network using existing dark fiber? MPLS backbone? Like all businesses these days, I will likely have to build the lit backbone as I add customers. So how would you recommend scaling the network? I have six strands of SMF that connect within municipal facilities. Each new customer will be a new build out from the nearest point. Because of having only six strands, I don't anticipate selling dark fiber. I believe I need to conserve fibers so that it would be lit services that I offer to customers. I would like to offer speeds up to 10 GB. Thoughts are appreciated! Sincerely, Lorell Hathcock -- Fletcher Kittredge GWI 8 Pomerleau Street Biddeford, ME 04005-9457 207-602-1134
Re: Equinix Virginia - Ethernet OOB suggestions
On 10 November 2014 15:20, Joe Greco jgr...@ns.sol.net wrote: Hey, VPN setup is not really a viable option (for us) in this scenario. Honestly, I'd prefer to just call it done already and have a VPN but due to certain restraints, we have to go down this route. Without explaining the restraints, this kinda boils down to 'cuz we want it, which stopped being good justification many years ago. Well, I was hoping that I could get some good pointers about where to look to open up the sales discussion and what is possible for us (With some trickery, we could probably do under /24, however again - I dont want a design discussion right now). I was really hoping that this would not turn out to be some bikeshedding or discussions about design constraints in public. Either way, thank you for taking the time to reply. /ruairi I doubt you'll find many takers who would want to provide you with a circuit for a few Mbps with a /23 for OOB purposes 'just cuz. I note that we're present in Equinix Ashburn and could do it, and that this is basically a nonstarter for us. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again. - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples.
Re: I am about to inherit 26 miles of dark fiber. What do I do with it?
On 2014-11-10 15:35, Rob Seastrom wrote: While short and to the point, what Fletcher said is likely to be the best advice in this thread. Getting someone on staff who understands *both* outside plant architecture and balance sheets... and can co-develop a business model that involves the lateral build-out from the six POPs around town without going broke is the hard part. Six POPs, six strands, MPLS backbone vs. selling waves could be the concept for the opening lines to a sad country song where the protagonist doesn't realize that the long pole in the tent is the making the edge work (someone please run with this and get a musical lightning talk at San Antonio!) +1 on both the good advice and the proposal of the musical talk :) Greets, Jeroen
RE: Contact @ harvard.edu?
Thanks for all of the lines everyone dropped me, issue is resolved. Malcolm Staudinger Information Security Analyst II | EIS EarthLink E: mstaudin...@elnk.com M: 360-936-5957 -Original Message- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Staudinger, Malcolm Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 3:50 PM To: NANOG Subject: Contact @ harvard.edu? If anyone from Harvard IT (preferably network/netsec, but I'll take anyone at this point) is on this list, please drop me a line regarding a DoS from your network. I haven't had any luck getting past your student help desk/ticket system. Malcolm Staudinger Information Security Analyst II | EIS EarthLinkhttp://www.earthlink.com/ E: mstaudin...@elnk.com M: 360-936-5957 [http://www.earthlinkmarketingservices.com/email_logo_sm.png]
Re: Equinix Virginia - Ethernet OOB suggestions
On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 08:20:44AM -0600, Joe Greco wrote: Hey, VPN setup is not really a viable option (for us) in this scenario. Honestly, I'd prefer to just call it done already and have a VPN but due to certain restraints, we have to go down this route. Without explaining the restraints, this kinda boils down to 'cuz we want it, which stopped being good justification many years ago. Not to ARIN, which isn't in the business of deciding what uses are valid and what uses are not valid (only that there is, in fact, use). With the recent reduction in minimum allocation sizes, he could get PI space for this directly from ARIN (depending on his previous allocations and efficient utilization thereof, of course). I doubt you'll find many takers who would want to provide you with a circuit for a few Mbps with a /23 for OOB purposes 'just cuz. I note that we're present in Equinix Ashburn and could do it, and that this is basically a nonstarter for us. Not an unreasonable business decision. His challange will be finding a provider large enough that they can easily allocate a /23 but small enough that they're interested in a 10(ish) Mbps connection that isn't likely to grow much. -- Brett
Re: I am about to inherit 26 miles of dark fiber. What do I do with it?
Goodwill != nice. Goodwill is respect, honesty and a genuine concern for a positive outcome. nice is frequently concentrating more on avoiding conflict than on a good outcome. I care more than most about the outcome than most because I will share your failure. I will be sitting on some panel having to explain why the failure of your town's system isn't indicative of the failure of all municipal broadband, just as I now have to explain Provo, UT, Burlington, VT, http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/10/technology/in-rural-america-challenging-a-roadblock-to-high-speed-internet.html?hpwrref=technologyaction=clickpgtype=Homepagemodule=well-regionregion=bottom-wellWT.nav=bottom-well_r=0Monticello, Minn; and Dunnellon and Quincy, Fla http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/10/technology/in-rural-america-challenging-a-roadblock-to-high-speed-internet.html?hpwrref=technologyaction=clickpgtype=Homepagemodule=well-regionregion=bottom-wellWT.nav=bottom-well_r=0 . Patrick Darden's comments on getting good legal advice and security design are great points. Municipal broadband is governed by federal, state and municipal laws. The last two vary widely... Fiber ownership, overlash rights, additional pole attachment. Stay in telecommunications space and out of electrical space if you can. Join the FTTH Council; it is very cheap for what you get. The resources available to members are extensive; concentrate on the public policy and business resources (disclaimer: I speak at their conferences on financing). www.muninetworks.org is another, though it comes with a perspective. Any technical advice from this forum is suspect because not enough has been shared about the goals of the project to make any technical choices. However, there are some general technical goals that all projects should examine, if only to discard them: 1) Expandability: We are in the early days of gigabit fiber networks and your network should last at least 20 years. Design in such a way that your network can grow significantly. Issues include fiber count, connection architecture, slack loops for many modifications. If you are building a business only network, think through how it would be expanded to all residential customers at a later date. By definition infrastructure is a shared resource and the more users the greater the value and the lower cost per user. Plan to share any infrastructure you design with everyone. 2) Flexibility: don't assume today's uses will be tomorrow's uses. Can you switch from passive to active if that is required later? You inherited a fiber plant that I bet you are going to find is insufficient to the task. Learn from that and don't pass on the same mess to later generations. 3) Open access, preferably dark fiber. Long discussion, but I think there is a compelling case that the best systems are usually open access dark fiber. See flexibility and expandability above and network consolidation below. 4) Plan for network consolidation. Every other network built in the past has gone through a network consolidation phase: telegraph, railroads, electrical, telephone, cable. The network economies of scale are so enormous that no single, small network can match them. Plan for that future and use a standard OSP design that matches the networks around you. On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 7:40 AM, Fletcher Kittredge fkitt...@gwi.net wrote: Gah! Municipal fiber networks can be total failures or the best investment a community can make. It all depends on the implementation. There are eight steps one needs to get right: 1) public policy goals, 2) technical goals meet the public policy goals, 3) survey community demographics and existing network assets, 4) build community consensus, 5) select the right business plan and obtain funding, 6) technical design of OSP and operating structure, 7) RFI/RFP, 8)select EPC vendors and fanatically oversee construction. Steps 1-5 are the most important and the level of success will depend on the quality of their implementation. If a half-assed job is done at any step, the outcome will not be good. This discussion has been focused on step 6: technical design. It is impossible to do a good technical design if you don't understand the problem you are trying to solve. There are vast differences between different municipalities public policy goals and business plans. It doesn't make sense to copy Chattanooga's implementation because their situation is different than yours (you have an existing fiber network, which is always a warning sign. They are serving all residents and businesses and you imply you are focused on businesses.) Focus on developing a deep understanding of what problem the city leaders are trying to solve, then figure out how to hire a competent OSP design person and make them do a good job. This is a hard task in and of itself. The failure of one municipal broadband system reflects badly on all municipal broadband systems. Good luck. On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 11:22 PM,
Problem reaching AS794 (Oracle) Through Level3 (Stockholm / Sweden).
I have had problems reaching www.mysql.com (AS794 Oracle) from AS39651 (Comhem Stockholm Sweden) for about a week now. Looking glass from Level3 and Telia shows me error as well. Can give login to a linux shell for troubleshooting. Traceroute : Host Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev 1. om-doc-1-bu30.comhem.se 0.0%166.5 9.7 6.5 19.5 4.0 2. 213.200.164.203 0.0%168.1 9.9 7.1 17.7 3.2 3. 213.200.163.81 0.0%169.0 10.1 7.3 18.3 2.8 4. s-b5-link.telia.net 0.0%169.1 11.7 7.9 20.5 4.9 5. s-bb4-link.telia.net 0.0%169.0 12.8 8.2 30.3 6.2 6. s-b6-link.telia.net 0.0%168.9 12.5 8.2 23.4 4.8 7. level3-ic-155475-s-b2.c.telia.net 25.0%169.3 8.6 7.4 9.6 0.8 8. ae-4-90.edge5.Dallas3.Level3.net 12.5%16 159.6 164.1 157.1 210.7 13.9 9. ae-4-90.edge5.Dallas3.Level3.net 12.5%16 158.7 163.9 157.5 181.7 7.6 10. ???
Re: Cisco CCNA Training
Let me second those thanks On 11/9/2014 4:38 PM, scottie mac wrote: Holy molly, thankyou!! I just enrolled. On 08/11/14 23:00, nanog-requ...@nanog.org wrote: From: Wakefield, Thad M. twakefi...@stcloudstate.edu To: nanog@nanog.org nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Cisco CCNA Training Message-ID: b3093724fb4d2747ae895c89420a1edc0133ad7...@scsu83a.campus.stcloudstate.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Until midnight Monday this course is on sale for $24: https://www.udemy.com/collection/thankyou-400-24deal -Original Message- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of scottie mac Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2014 6:02 PM To:nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Cisco CCNA Training This course has 25 hours of video, I haven't started it yet but I've watched many of Laz's videos on Youtube, and he explains stuff very well. It is $399 though. They could share the Udemy account, and watch them in their free time. *I'm not affiliated with Udemy* https://www.udemy.com/the-complete-ccna-200-120-course -- Jeff Shultz
Tech Laptop with DB9
Hi all, DB9 ports seem to be a nearly extinct feature on laptops. Any suggestions on a cheap laptop for use in field support (with an onboard DB9)? Thanks, Max
RE: Tech Laptop with DB9
Get a cheap usb--serial converter. Check amazon for trend usb rs-232 db9 serial converter, tu-s9. Then you can just use whatever laptop. --p -Original Message- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Max Clark Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 2:39 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: [EXTERNAL]Tech Laptop with DB9 Hi all, DB9 ports seem to be a nearly extinct feature on laptops. Any suggestions on a cheap laptop for use in field support (with an onboard DB9)? Thanks, Max
RE: Tech Laptop with DB9
If you are able to carry a USB cable I've actually found that these work PERFECTLY: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004ETETZK I've never had an issue, I currently have an OOB console server set up with the 4 head version of this and haven't had an issue. They're rock solid. -- Kate -Original Message- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Max Clark Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 12:39 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Tech Laptop with DB9 Hi all, DB9 ports seem to be a nearly extinct feature on laptops. Any suggestions on a cheap laptop for use in field support (with an onboard DB9)? Thanks, Max
Re: Tech Laptop with DB9
On Mon, 10 Nov 2014, Max Clark wrote: DB9 ports seem to be a nearly extinct feature on laptops. Any suggestions on a cheap laptop for use in field support (with an onboard DB9)? You might be able to pick up something like an old Dell Latitute D800 series pretty cheaply. Built-in RS232 serial ports are very tough to find on current laptops, however USB serial drivers have come a long way in the last several years, depending on your OS. jms
Re: Tech Laptop with DB9
On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 12:39:02PM -0800, Max Clark wrote: DB9 ports seem to be a nearly extinct feature on laptops. Any suggestions on a cheap laptop for use in field support (with an onboard DB9)? Might be easier to get an Aten UC232A converter to do USBDB9, you are right that DB9 directly on laptops is a dying breed. Do you have a specific application that would prohibit the use of USB? Kind regards, Job
Re: Tech Laptop with DB9
On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Job Snijders j...@instituut.net wrote: Do you have a specific application that would prohibit the use of USB? It's purely for convenience and forgetfulness.
Re: Tech Laptop with DB9
On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 10:39 PM, Max Clark max.cl...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, DB9 ports seem to be a nearly extinct feature on laptops. Any suggestions on a cheap laptop for use in field support (with an onboard DB9)? You can look at older Dell Latitudes such as D620 or any Prolific based USB-to-Serial adapter (If running those on Windows, you can set the driver so that it will report the same COM port even if it's plugged in different USB ports).
Re: Tech Laptop with DB9
ftdi chipsets work on both mac and windows devices. http://www.amazon.com/Serial-Console-Rollover-Cable-Routers/dp/B00M2SAKMG/ref=sr_1_16?s=electronicsie=UTF8qid=1415653377sr=1-16keywords=ftdi+serial On 11/10/14 10:39 AM, Max Clark wrote: Hi all, DB9 ports seem to be a nearly extinct feature on laptops. Any suggestions on a cheap laptop for use in field support (with an onboard DB9)? Thanks, Max signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Tech Laptop with DB9
If USB is banned, ask about expansion cards. The HP 650 G1 has a serial port, but it's not cheap. On 11/10/2014 12:39 PM, Max Clark wrote: Hi all, DB9 ports seem to be a nearly extinct feature on laptops. Any suggestions on a cheap laptop for use in field support (with an onboard DB9)? Thanks, Max
Re: Tech Laptop with DB9
I have found Air Console to be amazing: http://www.get-console.com/airconsole/ I have one that comes with me in my bag everywhere. I also have purchased a couple of their 1.8M USB to Cisco Rollover Cables which include the USB to Serial converter in the USB Plug. The cable can be adapted to serial and null modem with the end adapters (may not work in every situation) The FDDI chip in these cables has strong driver availability across all OS’s and is also installed by default in some OS’s (including OS X - my personal preference for direct interaction machine) This way as long as you have USB ports and Wifi you have an awesome tool set. The Air Console can even bridge traffic for monitoring / wireshark over Wifi (obvious bandwidth limitations) so I really enjoy having it with me. Regards Alexander Alexander Neilson Neilson Productions Limited alexan...@neilson.net.nz 021 329 681 022 456 2326 On 11/11/2014, at 9:39 am, Max Clark max.cl...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, DB9 ports seem to be a nearly extinct feature on laptops. Any suggestions on a cheap laptop for use in field support (with an onboard DB9)? Thanks, Max
Hosted IP telephony
Hi, We are an Internet and IP telephony provider in Canada and looking for options to reduce our costs. We are exploring hosted IP telephony option to see how it can help us reducing cost and operational headaches. We have few hundred of phone adapters to register and this number increases from day to day. If you provide this type of solutions or know providers of this type of solutions please contact me. Your help will be appreciated. Thank you Karim
Re: Tech Laptop with DB9
On 10/11/14 12:53, Darden, Patrick wrote: Get a cheap usb--serial converter. Check amazon for trend usb rs-232 db9 serial converter, tu-s9. Then you can just use whatever laptop. I've seen some cheap RS-232 converters fail with some devices. I was last bitten by one that just refused to work with Cisco Aironet APs 2600. I can't say if it was the device or the driver. I never knew what the problem ultimately was. Using a different model or brand worked. Just to have the precaution. O.
Re: Tech Laptop with DB9
I had a cheap one. Worked great but never worked on Windows 7 This is the one I recommend. http://www.amazon.com/Manhattan-Serial-Converter-Connects-205146/dp/B0007OWNYA On 11/10/2014 12:53 PM, Darden, Patrick wrote: Get a cheap usb--serial converter. Check amazon for trend usb rs-232 db9 serial converter, tu-s9. Then you can just use whatever laptop. --p -Original Message- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Max Clark Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 2:39 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: [EXTERNAL]Tech Laptop with DB9 Hi all, DB9 ports seem to be a nearly extinct feature on laptops. Any suggestions on a cheap laptop for use in field support (with an onboard DB9)? Thanks, Max
Re: Tech Laptop with DB9
On 11/10/2014 03:59 PM, Eugeniu Patrascu wrote: Prolific based USB-to-Serial adapter Anecodotally, I recommend against Prolific-based solutions. While doing some embedded dev work, I quite unintentionally found a specific data pattern that would reliably get corrupted by the Prolific cable I had. After several hours of debugging my software, finally resorting to a 'scope to verify that the data on the line was correct, I chucked it in the trash after I found that it worked fine with my 1st-party FTDI cable. Probably should have kept it and tried to isolate a minimal test case, but meh. 1st party FTDI cables can be had with bare wire ends on them. With a little effort, you can crimp an 8P8C directly on and have yourself a Cisco-style cable that's very reliable and includes traffic indicator lights in the USB molded housing. I think you can also get them pre-wired to DE9 connectors. They've got RS-485 and RS-422 options, too. I buy them from Digi-Key - not the cheapest place by any means, but you know for sure that they're real. I've had good luck with FTDI on all OSes. No drivers needed on (modern) Linux, and the drivers are easy to work with on all versions of Windows that I've used with them (XP, 7). Dunno about MacOSX, but I think there's at least options. YMMV, of course. FTDI got in some hot water recently by intentionally bricking 3rd party clones of their stuff in a Windows driver update. -- Brandon Martin
Re: Tech Laptop with DB9
On 11/10/2014 02:05 PM, joel jaeggli wrote: ftdi chipsets work on both mac and windows devices. I'd be careful with FTDI chipsets, you want to make sure you get the real chip. If they decide to move forward with bricking counterfeit chips, you'll be wasting your $$. --John http://www.amazon.com/Serial-Console-Rollover-Cable-Routers/dp/B00M2SAKMG/ref=sr_1_16?s=electronicsie=UTF8qid=1415653377sr=1-16keywords=ftdi+serial On 11/10/14 10:39 AM, Max Clark wrote: Hi all, DB9 ports seem to be a nearly extinct feature on laptops. Any suggestions on a cheap laptop for use in field support (with an onboard DB9)? Thanks, Max
Re: Tech Laptop with DB9
You mean like they did with the last driver update pushed via Windows Update? http://hackaday.com/2014/10/22/watch-that-windows-update-ftdi-drivers-are-killing-fake-chips/ On 10 Nov 2014 23:32, John Schiel jsch...@flowtools.net wrote: On 11/10/2014 02:05 PM, joel jaeggli wrote: ftdi chipsets work on both mac and windows devices. I'd be careful with FTDI chipsets, you want to make sure you get the real chip. If they decide to move forward with bricking counterfeit chips, you'll be wasting your $$. --John http://www.amazon.com/Serial-Console-Rollover-Cable- Routers/dp/B00M2SAKMG/ref=sr_1_16?s=electronicsie=UTF8 qid=1415653377sr=1-16keywords=ftdi+serial On 11/10/14 10:39 AM, Max Clark wrote: Hi all, DB9 ports seem to be a nearly extinct feature on laptops. Any suggestions on a cheap laptop for use in field support (with an onboard DB9)? Thanks, Max
Re: Equinix Virginia - Ethernet OOB suggestions
On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Paul S. cont...@winterei.se wrote: I'd be doubtful if anyone will feel like offering a /23 with OOB as justification these days, sadly. why thought? Justification is really about having a use for the ips, right? and if you have 500 servers/network-devices ... then you have justification for a /23 ... it seems to me. Good luck nonetheless. On 11/10/2014 午後 11:00, Ruairi Carroll wrote: Hey, VPN setup is not really a viable option (for us) in this scenario. Honestly, I'd prefer to just call it done already and have a VPN but due to certain restraints, we have to go down this route. /Ruairi On 10 November 2014 14:38, Alistair Mackenzie magics...@gmail.com wrote: Couldn't you put a router or VPN system on the single IP they are giving you and use RFC1918 addressing space? OOB doesn't normally justify a /24 let alone a /23. On 10 November 2014 13:18, Ruairi Carroll ruairi.carr...@gmail.com wrote: Dear List, I've got an upcoming deployment in Equinix (DC10) and I'm struggling to find a provider who can give me a 100Mbit port (With a commit of about 5-10Mbit) with a /23 or /24 of public space , for OOB purposes. We had hoped to use Equinixs services, however they're limiting us to a single public IP. I'm also open to other solutions - xDSL or similar, but emphasis is on cheap and on-net. Cheers /Ruairi
RE: Tech Laptop with DB9
The bonus about the adapter that I linked is that they use legit chips. I went through the FTDI driver update without a problem. -Original Message- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces+kate=quadranet@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Bacon Zombie Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 2:44 PM To: John Schiel Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Tech Laptop with DB9 You mean like they did with the last driver update pushed via Windows Update? http://hackaday.com/2014/10/22/watch-that-windows-update-ftdi-drivers-are-killing-fake-chips/ On 10 Nov 2014 23:32, John Schiel jsch...@flowtools.net wrote: On 11/10/2014 02:05 PM, joel jaeggli wrote: ftdi chipsets work on both mac and windows devices. I'd be careful with FTDI chipsets, you want to make sure you get the real chip. If they decide to move forward with bricking counterfeit chips, you'll be wasting your $$. --John http://www.amazon.com/Serial-Console-Rollover-Cable- Routers/dp/B00M2SAKMG/ref=sr_1_16?s=electronicsie=UTF8 qid=1415653377sr=1-16keywords=ftdi+serial On 11/10/14 10:39 AM, Max Clark wrote: Hi all, DB9 ports seem to be a nearly extinct feature on laptops. Any suggestions on a cheap laptop for use in field support (with an onboard DB9)? Thanks, Max
Re: Tech Laptop with DB9
On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 11:05:39AM -1000, joel jaeggli wrote: ftdi chipsets work on both mac and windows devices. As long as it's FTDI and not FTDI... - Matt -- Once one has achieved full endarkenment, one is happy to have an entirely nonfunctional computer -- Steve VanDevender, ASR
Re: Tech Laptop with DB9
On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 12:57:49PM -0800, Max Clark wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Job Snijders j...@instituut.net wrote: Do you have a specific application that would prohibit the use of USB? It's purely for convenience and forgetfulness. Cable ties. They're my forget-me-not. - Matt -- Alas, slideware often reduces the analytical quality of presentations. In particular, the popular PowerPoint templates (ready-made designs) usually weaken verbal and spatial reasoning, and almost always corrupt statistical analysis. -- http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/books_pp
Re: Tech Laptop with DB9
I have a box of the db9 to USB converters from monoprice, cheap as dirt and work great with the prolific and open source version as well. Cody On Nov 10, 2014 12:52 PM, Max Clark max.cl...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, DB9 ports seem to be a nearly extinct feature on laptops. Any suggestions on a cheap laptop for use in field support (with an onboard DB9)? Thanks, Max
Re: Tech Laptop with DB9
On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 03:15:38PM -0800, Kate Gerry wrote: The bonus about the adapter that I linked is that they use legit chips. If only supply chain security were that easy. - Matt
Kind of sad
Kind of sad that the state govs don't curtail telnet,,, [root@bighughness ~]# telnet 167.240.254.155 623 Trying 167.240.254.155... Connected to external-dns1.state.mi.us (167.240.254.155). Escape character is '^]'. Username:root Password:
Re: Tech Laptop with DB9
Also worth mentioning: in a pinch they work great on Android and BlackBerry (Z30) devices with USB OTG support. From memory I believe both pl2303 and FTDI work. Another laptop option is an ExpressCard to serial adapter: http://www.brainboxes.com/serial-expresscard Disclaimer: this was merely the first Google result. M. Original Message From: joel jaeggli Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 16:19 To: Max Clark; nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Tech Laptop with DB9 ftdi chipsets work on both mac and windows devices. http://www.amazon.com/Serial-Console-Rollover-Cable-Routers/dp/B00M2SAKMG/ref=sr_1_16?s=electronicsie=UTF8qid=1415653377sr=1-16keywords=ftdi+serial On 11/10/14 10:39 AM, Max Clark wrote: Hi all, DB9 ports seem to be a nearly extinct feature on laptops. Any suggestions on a cheap laptop for use in field support (with an onboard DB9)? Thanks, Max
Re: Kind of sad
Generally speaking its a bad idea to show you hacking into a server. Makes it to easy to prosecute those who do.
Re: Tech Laptop with DB9
We recently bought some HP 6570b laptops. They come standard with a DB9 in the back. On Mon, 10 Nov 2014, Max Clark wrote: Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 12:39:02 -0800 From: Max Clark max.cl...@gmail.com To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Tech Laptop with DB9 Hi all, DB9 ports seem to be a nearly extinct feature on laptops. Any suggestions on a cheap laptop for use in field support (with an onboard DB9)? Thanks, Max
Re: Tech Laptop with DB9
You can pick up an old toughbook on eBay that have serial ports for reasonable prices. Put in flash disk and run linux for a reasonable experience. But for the height of convenience you cant go past an Air Console. http://www.get-console.com/airconsole/ Nothing beats being able to plug it in deep inside a rack and then walk back to a comfortable seat to work. Beats the cold data center floor any day! Matt /* Matt Perkins Direct 1300 137 379 Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd. Office 1300 133 299 m...@spectrum.com.au Fax1300 133 255 Level 6, 350 George Street Sydney 2000 SIP 1300137...@sip.spectrum.com.au ABN 66 090 112 913 PGP/GNUPG Public Key can be found at http://pgp.mit.edu */ On 11/11/2014 7:39 am, Max Clark wrote: Hi all, DB9 ports seem to be a nearly extinct feature on laptops. Any suggestions on a cheap laptop for use in field support (with an onboard DB9)? Thanks, Max
cheap laptop with 32G or 64G recommendations
Hello, Any recommendation, not looking for anything fantasy, my understanding it should be quardcore, with more than DIMM0 slot so each can have 8G. wind7-64bits to work. I want to use it as a server or practice logical routers
Re: Kind of sad
That's a far, far cry from hacking... On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Brian Henson marin...@gmail.com wrote: Generally speaking its a bad idea to show you hacking into a server. Makes it to easy to prosecute those who do. -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Re: cheap laptop with 32G or 64G recommendations
On November 10, 2014 4:49:08 PM EST, lobna gouda lobna_go...@hotmail.com wrote: Hello, Any recommendation, not looking for anything fantasy, my understanding it should be quardcore, with more than DIMM0 slot so each can have 8G. wind7-64bits to work. I want to use it as a server or practice logical routers Cheap and 64GiB of RAM are incompatible concepts in laptops. There is no earthly reason you should need to carry a machine like that anyway. If for some reason you need something so equipped, get yourself a cloud instance and connect to it. That's how you save money. If you're stuck working in a completely isolated environment, then work it into the contract. That's the cost of being on an island. -- Izaac
10Gb iPerf kit?
We're looking for a semi-portable solution to validate 10Gb customer circuits and hitting walls surrounding PCI lanes and the amount of data laptops can push via their busses. We'd prefer to not have techs lugging around server equipment for these tests. Anyone out there testing 10gbE with iPerf? If so, what are you using? Thanks, Dan
Re: 10Gb iPerf kit?
I have not tried doing that myself, but the only thing that would even be possible that I know of is thunderbolt. A new MacBook Pro and one of these maybe: http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echoexpresssel_10gbeadapter.html -Randy - On Nov 10, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Daniel Rohan dro...@gmail.com wrote: We're looking for a semi-portable solution to validate 10Gb customer circuits and hitting walls surrounding PCI lanes and the amount of data laptops can push via their busses. We'd prefer to not have techs lugging around server equipment for these tests. Anyone out there testing 10gbE with iPerf? If so, what are you using? Thanks, Dan
Re: 10Gb iPerf kit?
why doesn't a tbird do this for you? On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 7:35 PM, Randy Carpenter rcar...@network1.net wrote: I have not tried doing that myself, but the only thing that would even be possible that I know of is thunderbolt. A new MacBook Pro and one of these maybe: http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echoexpresssel_10gbeadapter.html -Randy - On Nov 10, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Daniel Rohan dro...@gmail.com wrote: We're looking for a semi-portable solution to validate 10Gb customer circuits and hitting walls surrounding PCI lanes and the amount of data laptops can push via their busses. We'd prefer to not have techs lugging around server equipment for these tests. Anyone out there testing 10gbE with iPerf? If so, what are you using? Thanks, Dan
Re: cheap laptop with 32G or 64G recommendations
On Nov 10, 2014, at 4:24 PM, Izaac iz...@setec.org wrote: If you're stuck working in a completely isolated environment, then work it into the contract. That's the cost of being on an island. This is the argument being made against all the citizens who have the temerity to live in British Columbia, yet not within the borders of a sanctioned municipality. Izaac, spend a year getting shot at in Surrey, then get back to us. --lyndon signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
Contact at internode / iiNet (AS4739)?
Hey, If anyone from the routing / peering team of Internode / iiNet happens to frequent this list, could you reach me off-list? I've been having routing problems with my peering session to you for a few months already, and haven't been able to get a response off the helpdesk. Thanks, and sorry for the noise.
Re: 10Gb iPerf kit?
You really want one of these http://www.jdsu.com/en-us/Test-and-Measurement/products/a-z-product-list/Pa ges/tb-6000.aspx#.VGFcetZ65PI Or it¹s larger 9000 series that can scale to 100Gb. On 11/10/14, 7:26 PM, Daniel Rohan dro...@gmail.com wrote: We're looking for a semi-portable solution to validate 10Gb customer circuits and hitting walls surrounding PCI lanes and the amount of data laptops can push via their busses. We'd prefer to not have techs lugging around server equipment for these tests. Anyone out there testing 10gbE with iPerf? If so, what are you using? Thanks, Dan
Re: 10Gb iPerf kit?
I gotta wonder. How reliable is iPerf over something like RFC2544 or Y.1564? Especially at those speeds? I just picked up a couple of Accedian’s RFC2544/Y.1564 boxes to use as loopbacks to our field Exfos. We’ll probably wind up buying a few more Accedian boxes for the field where we don’t need to spend the money on an Exfo. One of the Accedian boxes is arguably less than what you’d pay for a TB MBP and that Sonnet adapter. On Nov 10, 2014, at 7:38 PM, Christopher Morrow morrowc.li...@gmail.com wrote: why doesn't a tbird do this for you? On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 7:35 PM, Randy Carpenter rcar...@network1.net wrote: I have not tried doing that myself, but the only thing that would even be possible that I know of is thunderbolt. A new MacBook Pro and one of these maybe: http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echoexpresssel_10gbeadapter.html -Randy - On Nov 10, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Daniel Rohan dro...@gmail.com wrote: We're looking for a semi-portable solution to validate 10Gb customer circuits and hitting walls surrounding PCI lanes and the amount of data laptops can push via their busses. We'd prefer to not have techs lugging around server equipment for these tests. Anyone out there testing 10gbE with iPerf? If so, what are you using? Thanks, Dan
Re: Kind of sad
On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Mike Hale eyeronic.des...@gmail.com wrote: That's a far, far cry from hacking... Maybe in your opinion, but not the opinion of the very same people who were stupid enough to keep telnet open. ...and those same people have armies with guns. So my opinion and your opinion don't really matter. ;) -A
Re: Kind of sad
Aaron C. de Bruyn wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Mike Hale eyeronic.des...@gmail.com wrote: That's a far, far cry from hacking... Maybe in your opinion, but not the opinion of the very same people who were stupid enough to keep telnet open. ...and those same people have armies with guns. So my opinion and your opinion don't really matter. ;) -A Not sure I'd be all that worried about state.mi.us's Army. On the other hand, I might try to sell them some penetration testing and security hardening services :-)
Re: Kind of sad
On 11/10/2014 06:34 PM, Joe wrote: Kind of sad that the state govs don't curtail telnet,,, [root@bighughness ~]# telnet 167.240.254.155 623 Trying 167.240.254.155... Connected to external-dns1.state.mi.us (167.240.254.155). Escape character is '^]'. Username:root Password: Hopefully a honeypot / synthetic response from an IPS unit -- -James
Re: cheap laptop with 32G or 64G recommendations
Nobody will ever need more than 64K...M...G... George William Herbert Sent from my iPhone On Nov 10, 2014, at 4:24 PM, Izaac iz...@setec.org wrote: On November 10, 2014 4:49:08 PM EST, lobna gouda lobna_go...@hotmail.com wrote: Hello, Any recommendation, not looking for anything fantasy, my understanding it should be quardcore, with more than DIMM0 slot so each can have 8G. wind7-64bits to work. I want to use it as a server or practice logical routers Cheap and 64GiB of RAM are incompatible concepts in laptops. There is no earthly reason you should need to carry a machine like that anyway. If for some reason you need something so equipped, get yourself a cloud instance and connect to it. That's how you save money. If you're stuck working in a completely isolated environment, then work it into the contract. That's the cost of being on an island. -- Izaac
Re: Kind of sad
--- jmkel...@houseofzen.org wrote: From: James Michael Keller jmkel...@houseofzen.org On 11/10/2014 06:34 PM, Joe wrote: Kind of sad that the state govs don't curtail telnet,,, [root@bighughness ~]# telnet 167.240.254.155 623 Trying 167.240.254.155... Connected to external-dns1.state.mi.us (167.240.254.155). Escape character is '^]'. Username:root Password: Hopefully a honeypot / synthetic response from an IPS unit -- State gov't. I doubt it. I've seen the horrors that happen in those places... :-) scott
Re: Equinix Virginia - Ethernet OOB suggestions
Why use IPv4 for OOB? Seems a little late in the day for that. -Bill On Nov 10, 2014, at 15:02, Christopher Morrow morrowc.li...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Paul S. cont...@winterei.se wrote: I'd be doubtful if anyone will feel like offering a /23 with OOB as justification these days, sadly. why thought? Justification is really about having a use for the ips, right? and if you have 500 servers/network-devices ... then you have justification for a /23 ... it seems to me. Good luck nonetheless. On 11/10/2014 午後 11:00, Ruairi Carroll wrote: Hey, VPN setup is not really a viable option (for us) in this scenario. Honestly, I'd prefer to just call it done already and have a VPN but due to certain restraints, we have to go down this route. /Ruairi On 10 November 2014 14:38, Alistair Mackenzie magics...@gmail.com wrote: Couldn't you put a router or VPN system on the single IP they are giving you and use RFC1918 addressing space? OOB doesn't normally justify a /24 let alone a /23. On 10 November 2014 13:18, Ruairi Carroll ruairi.carr...@gmail.com wrote: Dear List, I've got an upcoming deployment in Equinix (DC10) and I'm struggling to find a provider who can give me a 100Mbit port (With a commit of about 5-10Mbit) with a /23 or /24 of public space , for OOB purposes. We had hoped to use Equinixs services, however they're limiting us to a single public IP. I'm also open to other solutions - xDSL or similar, but emphasis is on cheap and on-net. Cheers /Ruairi
Re: Equinix Virginia - Ethernet OOB suggestions
because a /23 of ipv6 is very large :) also, it's hard to use ipv6 when your last miile provider doesn't offer it... #fios On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 7:53 PM, Bill Woodcock wo...@pch.net wrote: Why use IPv4 for OOB? Seems a little late in the day for that. -Bill On Nov 10, 2014, at 15:02, Christopher Morrow morrowc.li...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Paul S. cont...@winterei.se wrote: I'd be doubtful if anyone will feel like offering a /23 with OOB as justification these days, sadly. why thought? Justification is really about having a use for the ips, right? and if you have 500 servers/network-devices ... then you have justification for a /23 ... it seems to me. Good luck nonetheless. On 11/10/2014 午後 11:00, Ruairi Carroll wrote: Hey, VPN setup is not really a viable option (for us) in this scenario. Honestly, I'd prefer to just call it done already and have a VPN but due to certain restraints, we have to go down this route. /Ruairi On 10 November 2014 14:38, Alistair Mackenzie magics...@gmail.com wrote: Couldn't you put a router or VPN system on the single IP they are giving you and use RFC1918 addressing space? OOB doesn't normally justify a /24 let alone a /23. On 10 November 2014 13:18, Ruairi Carroll ruairi.carr...@gmail.com wrote: Dear List, I've got an upcoming deployment in Equinix (DC10) and I'm struggling to find a provider who can give me a 100Mbit port (With a commit of about 5-10Mbit) with a /23 or /24 of public space , for OOB purposes. We had hoped to use Equinixs services, however they're limiting us to a single public IP. I'm also open to other solutions - xDSL or similar, but emphasis is on cheap and on-net. Cheers /Ruairi
Re: Kind of sad
Generally speaking its best you do what your good at and this is not it. Exposing there is a window open to a gov agency is not hacking, trust me. I would say go back to fathering children and once you have a few more years under your belt feel free to join in. On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 5:48 PM, Brian Henson marin...@gmail.com wrote: Generally speaking its a bad idea to show you hacking into a server. Makes it to easy to prosecute those who do.
Re: Kind of sad
Ha ya know what they say... Don't ever trust someone that says trust me... -- Jason Hellenthal Mobile: +1 (616) 953-0176 jhellent...@dataix.net JJH48-ARIN On Nov 10, 2014, at 21:43, Joe jbfixu...@gmail.com wrote: Generally speaking its best you do what your good at and this is not it. Exposing there is a window open to a gov agency is not hacking, trust me. I would say go back to fathering children and once you have a few more years under your belt feel free to join in. On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 5:48 PM, Brian Henson marin...@gmail.com wrote: Generally speaking its a bad idea to show you hacking into a server. Makes it to easy to prosecute those who do.
Re: Tech Laptop with DB9
On 2014-11-10 21:55, Justin M. Streiner wrote: On Mon, 10 Nov 2014, Max Clark wrote: DB9 ports seem to be a nearly extinct feature on laptops. Any suggestions on a cheap laptop for use in field support (with an onboard DB9)? My HP EliteBook 8570p has a DB9 port. (I bought it last year, so it may still be available.) When I searched for notebooks with DB9 port last year, I also found 2 models by fujitsu-siemens and some in the rugged/outdoor sector. (Depends on what you call cheap, though). Sorry, the links are in German, mostly. HTH, jutta http://de.fujitsu.com/ps2/aktionsmodelle/g/notebooks/e782.html http://business.panasonic.de/computerloesungen/panasonic-computer-product-solutions-produktsortiment/unser-produktsortiment-panasonic-toughbook/semi-ruggedized-notebooks http://www.durabook.com/en/compare2.php?no=88return_link=product.php%3Fno%3D88
Undefined terms overload
I was able to ignore it for a while, but now I have run into one in two unrelated threads. What does bikeshedding mean here? And, what does OOB mean here--the decodes with which I am familiar do not seem to fit: Out of Bounds, Out Of Body, Out of Bed, Out of Business, Open Of Business (used to see this one many times daily), Out Of Bullets, Out Of Band (also familiar from telephone days). -- The unique Characteristics of System Administrators: The fact that they are infallible; and, The fact that they learn from their mistakes. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
Re: Undefined terms overload
On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 11:16 PM, Larry Sheldon larryshel...@cox.net wrote: I was able to ignore it for a while, but now I have run into one in two unrelated threads. What does bikeshedding mean here? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson's_law_of_triviality And, what does OOB mean here--the decodes with which I am familiar do not 'out of band' - ideally: Access the console of my equipment without having to use the network my equipment is supporting seem to fit: Out of Bounds, Out Of Body, Out of Bed, Out of Business, Open Of Business (used to see this one many times daily), Out Of Bullets, Out Of Band (also familiar from telephone days). -- The unique Characteristics of System Administrators: The fact that they are infallible; and, The fact that they learn from their mistakes. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
Re: Undefined terms overload
On 11/10/2014 22:23, Christopher Morrow wrote: Thanks--I've received several useful offers of help. What does bikeshedding mean here? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson's_law_of_triviality I'd forgotten the Parkinson's discussion and the term didn't stir anything up. I have current experience with the concept. And, what does OOB mean here--the decodes with which I am familiar do not 'out of band' - ideally: Access the console of my equipment without having to use the network my equipment is supporting From another helpful message I was able to connect to the old telephone term that had the same functional definition in a different physical implementation. Thanks, all. -- The unique Characteristics of System Administrators: The fact that they are infallible; and, The fact that they learn from their mistakes. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
Re: Equinix Virginia - Ethernet OOB suggestions
On Tuesday, November 11, 2014 01:00:54 AM Christopher Morrow wrote: why thought? Justification is really about having a use for the ips, right? and if you have 500 servers/network-devices ... then you have justification for a /23 ... it seems to me. Unless Equinix have an actual product called OoB, in which case it automatically comes with a /30, or /126. Mark. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
