RE: Bluehost.com

[Kiriki Delany]

I was more stating the macro economics, and specifically commenting on the 
effects of the losing investments if the product/service itself is being sold 
at a loss. Slim margins on the long-tail of high-volume low end is to be 
expected.  

The rich are getting richer, was a generally observation that there is a trend 
of more money coming down from the top. I *think* there is more losers than 
winners in general, but the point is about how businesses survive. They either 
have to be profitable, and typically providing value in the "free market" or 
are being subsidized in some way (by investment). The constant subsidy of 
investment, before there is an actual value-add to the service/product, damages 
the rest of the value proposition for the industry.

I don’t claim to have the answers, just observations from our perspective as a 
privately held, profitable service company. 

These issue are at the heart of conversations about the value of services like 
YouTube (Paid for by Google but a successful business model?) and Streaming 
radio services like Pandora, Spotify, Tidal, etc... Typically those 
conversations are about the value of the content, vs the revenue paid to the 
content creators, and who is doing more "work" i.e is Google getting the 
content out there? Or is it destroying the value of the content by providing 
access. These are content examples, but I think it’s the same conversation for 
the web hosting and networks. 

I'm also saying more energy needs to be put into increasing value and being 
able to raise the prices of a service. After-all if you are supplying a higher 
value, it's worth more to the customer, and they are actually saving money in 
the long run paying for a more valuable service. As networks and web-hosting 
becomes more of a commodity, I wonder how the service side is being addressed. 
It's certainly a struggle for most large operators, just look at Telco's and 
Cable operators, some of the most hated support provided. Even the airlines are 
horrible. No one's solving the problem of how to massively scale and keep up 
the quality of your support services too. 

-Kiriki





-Original Message-
From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Petach
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2015 1:13 PM
Cc: NANOG
Subject: Re: Bluehost.com

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Bob Evans  wrote:
> I think he means to say the rich get richer on the other side of the 
> investment by playing the shorting and the buying of stock in the 
> gambling marketplace. As the stock itself can create a new 
> currency so they make more money playing with that than the 
> actually investment. They are on the inside hence the saying the rich get 
> richer.
> Thank You
> Bob Evans
> CTO


Ah!

So there's two types of value being discussed; network value, vs dollar value.  
While dollar value is being made, and the rich are getting richer, the value of 
the network resources may indeed be destroyed.

Unfortunately, it's very hard to steer behaviour when the incentives are not 
aligned with the desired outcome, and in these cases, the incentive (get 
richer) is often at odds with what the technical community might desire.
As much as we might wish it to be otherwise, the primary job of public 
companies is to make money, not create network value--at least, as long as the 
majority of your voting shares are held by investors rather than technologists.
I look at companies like Google, Alibaba, and Facebook as interesting anomalies 
because they've structured their corporate ownership in a way that doesn't cede 
control over to the institutional investors the way the vast majority of public 
companies have.  It remains to be seen if that separation allows them to 
prioritize creating
network value above making money.   (I suspect
Google sidestepped the question when picking their motto--"Don't be evil" 
doesn't define the nature of evil; for investors, not doing everything possible 
to make a profit might be seen as 'evil'. )

Thanks!

Matt


>
>
>
>
>> On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 5:54 PM, Kiriki Delany 
>> 
>> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> Bottom line, is the industry needs to be increasing value, because 
>>> the flip side working for no profit, surviving off investment 
>>> only... there's no end-game. You see this cycle time and time again 
>>> as market share is grabbed, then underperforming companies are 
>>> rolled up. In this process value is destroyed.
>>>
>>> Ultimately this is also why it's extremely damaging for investors to 
>>> constantly invest in companies that don't make a profit, and don't 
>>> provide a successful economical model for the services/products 
>>> provided. These companies largely live on investor money, lose 
>>> money, and in their wake destroy value for the entire industry. Of 
>>> course the end-game for the investors is to make money... I'm always 
>>> surprised how strong investment/gambles are for 

Re: Opinions on Arista 7280?

[David Bass]

These are being implemented in production on many a bank network...so yes,
they are plenty good enough.  You will obviously need to test them in a lab
to make sure the features you need to implement don't have any bugs that
need to be addressed first.  Overall I've had good experiences with them
though in a spine/leaf topology in major data centers.

I've also been implementing Arista switches as core devices outside of the
data center with some pretty great results, but you need to be careful to
make sure the features you need are available on the platform you want to
buy.  As with Cisco (and any other vendor) there are some hardware
limitations where some features will exist on one platform, but not another.

On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 4:39 AM, H I Baysal  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Hardware is really nice.
> Backplane, buffers, just basically “pumping” bandwidth. It’s really good.
>
> However, mlag can show some bugs when having only 1 interface in an MLAG
> (only 1 side) they had issues with the ifindex numbering in software.
> There were OSPF configuration options missing, etc.
>
> In short, hardware is really nice, software needs more maturing.
> Nice for distribution but not for core.
>
>
>
> > On 24 Nov 2015, at 19:02, David Hubbard 
> wrote:
> >
> > Curious if anyone's used the 7280 and wants to share their experience?
> > I'm looking at it primarily for three reasons, MLAG (i.e. multi-chassis
> > LACP), large ARP/MAC table (256k entries) and large IPv6 neighbor table
> > (256k entries).  For the table sizes we would like out of one pair of
> > switches, we'd be into the Cisco 7000 series, but that's dramatically
> > more expensive and we don't need much of anything else that it offers.
> >
> > Looked at Brocade too, but they don't have devices that can do the multi
> > chassis LACP, has the huge table sizes and has a reasonable number of
> > 10gig ports.  It was possible to construct a workable solution using
> > VDX's for switching and CER's for routing, but that's more complex than
> > Arista's option if it's a usable option.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > David
>
>

[NANOG-announce] Fwd: NANOG 66 - San Diego - Call for Presentations is Open!

[Tony Tauber]

Hi folks,

A reminder of today being the due date for Abstracts for NANOG66 in San
Diego.

We'd like to see things submitted the PC Tool .
Don't sweat it if the idea isn't all the way fleshed out.
The PC meets bi-weekly to review submissions and assign a "Shepherd" w/in
the PC to help develop and refine the content.

If you did happen to have materials such as a draft slide deck ready,
please upload it to the PC Tool as well as it helps give the PC a sense of
the scope and level of detail of the proposal.

Thanks,
Tony
Chair, NANOG Program Committee


-- Forwarded message --
From: Tony Tauber 
Date: Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 5:07 PM
Subject: NANOG 66 - San Diego - Call for Presentations is Open!
To: nanog-annou...@nanog.org


Greetings NANOG Folks,

The last two NANOG meetings (San Francisco and Montreal) set records for
attendance and we hope and expect the trend of strong attendance numbers to
continue for the NANOG 66 meeting February 8-10, 2016 in San Diego, CA
which will be hosted by IIX, Inc.


The detailed NANOG66 Call For Presentations
 has more info but
below is some information that might be useful for quick digestion.

Cheers,

Tony Tauber
Chair, NANOG Program Committee
===

Timeline for submission and proposal review


   1.

   Submitter enters Abstract (and draft slides if possible) in Program
   Committee Site .
   1.

  Any time following Call for Presentations and before deadline for
  Abstracts
  2.

   PC performs initial review and assigns a “Shepherd” to help develop the
   submission.
   1.

  Within about 2-3 weeks
  3.

   Submitter develops draft slides (minimally showing proposed outline and
   level of detail).
   1.

  Please submit initial draft slides before published deadline for
  slides
  2.

  Panels and Track submissions should provide topic list and
  intended/confirmed participants
  4.

   PC reviews slides and iteratively works with Submitter to help develop
   topic.
   5.

   PC accepts or declines submission
   6.

   Agenda assembled and posted
   7.

   Submitters notified


If you think you have an interesting topic but want some feedback or
assistance working it into a presentation, please email the Program
Committee , and a representative on the Program
Committee will give you the feedback needed to work it into a presentation.
Otherwise, don't delay in submitting your talk, keynote, track, or panel
proposal to the Program Committee Site
.  We look forward to reviewing your submission.


Key Dates For NANOG 66

Event/Deadline

Date

Registration for NANOG 66 Opens

Monday, 10/26/2015

CFP Opens for NANOG 66

Monday, 10/26/2015

CFP Deadline #1: Presentation Abstracts Due

Monday, 11/30/2015

CFP Topic List  and NANOG Highlights Page Posted

Friday, 12/18/2015

CFP Deadline #2: Presentation Slides Due

Monday, 1/4/2016

Meeting Agenda Published

Monday, 1/11/2016

Speaker FINAL presentations to Program Committee Site


Wednesday, 2/3/2016

On-site Registration

Sunday, 2/7/2016

Lightning Talk Submissions Open (Abstracts Only)

Sunday, 2/7/2016

Further Presentation Guidelines can be found under "Present at a NANOG"
 and some general advice is
available in Tips on Giving a Talk
.
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