Re: Any experience with Broadcom ICOS out there?

[Baldur Norddahl]

Yes please please Fiberstore get rid of the fake reviews. You are better 
than this.


Den 06/01/2018 kl. 21.43 skrev Filip Hruska:

I think FS reviews are simply fake.

Check out reviews on this bag of connectors: 
https://www.fs.com/products/10964.html#all_reviews


3 different people from supposedly 3 countries added pictures of the 
bag. To me it looks like the bag is on the exact same table in all 
photos,
under totally same lighting conditions, just shot from different 
angles. Also, there is a dent in the table, which is visible in 2 of 
the photos.


I wonder, why would they do this? Doesn't instill a lot of confidence 
in me.



Regards

--
Filip Hruska
Linux System Administrator

Dne 1/6/18 v 06:15 Chuck Church napsal(a):

I smell some BS here, at least in their 'Verified Purchase' reviews:

"It is installed as a network hub in my basement and it is working 
fine. Great quality product. I've had a lot of business with FS for 
years. This is a very reliable company and they stand behind their 
company's products with a first class warranty! I highly recommend."


"It just takes several days to receive my 100G switch with Broadcom 
ICOS which is packaged safely and intactly. I followed the 
instruction and seems simple for a non-tech user. Three steps would 
be done: plug it in, cable it up, turn it on. Just the way a good 
product should be. I would like to recommend both the product and the 
seller."



Non tech user, network hub in my basement.  $10K L3 switch. Jesus.  
The Tactical Flashlight seems more believable right now.


Chuck.

-Original Message-
From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2018 4:55 PM
To: Bryan Holloway ; nanog@nanog.org list 


Subject: Re: Any experience with Broadcom ICOS out there?

You may have better results with the same question on OCP (open compute
platform) related forums and mailing lists. The Quanta version of 
that switch sold by FS is pretty much the same thing:


https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/801037-qct-reveals-their-quantamesh-network-switches/ 



Quanta has been very active in the OCP community for whitebox 
switches. I have heard that they are the switch manufacturer for a 
great deal of Facebook's hyperscale stuff.




On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 1:46 PM, Bryan Holloway  wrote:


Thank you everyone for the responses so far; I should probably
re-phrase the question at this point ...

Has anyone had production experience with Broadcom ICOS and the
features it claims to support? Positive or negative?


On 1/5/18 2:46 PM, joel jaeggli wrote:



On 1/5/18 10:50 AM, Bryan Holloway wrote:


Fiberstore is rolling out some CRAZY cheap 100Gbps switches, and I'm
curious if anyone in the community has any thoughts or real-life
world experience with them.

E.g.: https://www.fs.com/products/69340.html

For the price point, it's almost in the "too good to be true" 
category.



The COGS on a single ASIC tomahawk switch was is in $5000-7000 range.
so it's consistent with a low value add reseller of merchant silicon.
that silicon is getting older (tomahawk 3 was announced in
anticipation of 2018) so we can presume they are getting cheaper. I
generally have a favorable experience of FS but then I buy optics and
cables, not switches so your mileage may vary.

Naturally it claims to support an impressive range of features
including

BGP, IS-IS, OSPF, MPLS, VRFs, blah blah blah.


The software stack is Broadcom ICOS. if you're not familiar with that
I start looking at that. if it meets you needs that's cool. if not
you might be looking at cumulus or onos. That said Broadcom does
enough to get their customers (whitebox odms) out the door, not
necessarily the customers of those odms so your recourse to a
developer is kind of limited which you get a from a vendor more
involved in the software stack. A lot of those choices here depend on
how responsible you want to be for what's running inside the box.


There was an earlier discussion about packet buffer issues, but,
assuming for a second that it's not an issue,


It can be avoided, but for people used to running all 10Gb/s
cut-through trident 2s kind of hot, some of consequences are kind of
impressive. 4 much smaller buffers and the virtual assurance that
you'll be doing rate conversion eats into the forwarding budget.


can anyone say they've used these and/or the L2/L3 features that
they purportedly support?

Thanks!
 - bryan

Re: Any experience with Broadcom ICOS out there?

[Filip Hruska]

I think FS reviews are simply fake.

Check out reviews on this bag of connectors: 
https://www.fs.com/products/10964.html#all_reviews


3 different people from supposedly 3 countries added pictures of the 
bag. To me it looks like the bag is on the exact same table in all photos,
under totally same lighting conditions, just shot from different angles. 
Also, there is a dent in the table, which is visible in 2 of the photos.


I wonder, why would they do this? Doesn't instill a lot of confidence in me.


Regards

--
Filip Hruska
Linux System Administrator

Dne 1/6/18 v 06:15 Chuck Church napsal(a):

I smell some BS here, at least in their 'Verified Purchase' reviews:

"It is installed as a network hub in my basement and it is working fine. Great 
quality product. I've had a lot of business with FS for years. This is a very reliable 
company and they stand behind their company's products with a first class warranty! I 
highly recommend."

"It just takes several days to receive my 100G switch with Broadcom ICOS which is 
packaged safely and intactly. I followed the instruction and seems simple for a non-tech 
user. Three steps would be done: plug it in, cable it up, turn it on. Just the way a good 
product should be. I would like to recommend both the product and the seller."


Non tech user, network hub in my basement.  $10K L3 switch.  Jesus.  The 
Tactical Flashlight seems more believable right now.

Chuck.

-Original Message-
From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2018 4:55 PM
To: Bryan Holloway ; nanog@nanog.org list 
Subject: Re: Any experience with Broadcom ICOS out there?

You may have better results with the same question on OCP (open compute
platform) related forums and mailing lists. The Quanta version of that switch 
sold by FS is pretty much the same thing:

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/801037-qct-reveals-their-quantamesh-network-switches/

Quanta has been very active in the OCP community for whitebox switches. I have 
heard that they are the switch manufacturer for a great deal of Facebook's 
hyperscale stuff.



On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 1:46 PM, Bryan Holloway  wrote:


Thank you everyone for the responses so far; I should probably
re-phrase the question at this point ...

Has anyone had production experience with Broadcom ICOS and the
features it claims to support? Positive or negative?


On 1/5/18 2:46 PM, joel jaeggli wrote:



On 1/5/18 10:50 AM, Bryan Holloway wrote:


Fiberstore is rolling out some CRAZY cheap 100Gbps switches, and I'm
curious if anyone in the community has any thoughts or real-life
world experience with them.

E.g.: https://www.fs.com/products/69340.html

For the price point, it's almost in the "too good to be true" category.


The COGS on a single ASIC tomahawk switch was is in $5000-7000 range.
so it's consistent with a low value add reseller of merchant silicon.
that silicon is getting older (tomahawk 3 was announced in
anticipation of 2018) so we can presume they are getting cheaper. I
generally have a favorable experience of FS but then I buy optics and
cables, not switches so your mileage may vary.

Naturally it claims to support an impressive range of features
including

BGP, IS-IS, OSPF, MPLS, VRFs, blah blah blah.


The software stack is Broadcom ICOS. if you're not familiar with that
I start looking at that. if it meets you needs that's cool. if not
you might be looking at cumulus or onos. That said Broadcom does
enough to get their customers (whitebox odms) out the door, not
necessarily the customers of those odms so your recourse to a
developer is kind of limited which you get a from a vendor more
involved in the software stack. A lot of those choices here depend on
how responsible you want to be for what's running inside the box.


There was an earlier discussion about packet buffer issues, but,
assuming for a second that it's not an issue,


It can be avoided, but for people used to running all 10Gb/s
cut-through trident 2s kind of hot, some of consequences are kind of
impressive. 4 much smaller buffers and the virtual assurance that
you'll be doing rate conversion eats into the forwarding budget.


can anyone say they've used these and/or the L2/L3 features that
they purportedly support?

Thanks!
 - bryan

Re: ✘Netflix

[Brett A Mansfield]

I got a delivery failure for that email address.

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

> On Jan 6, 2018, at 8:09 AM, Michael Crapse  wrote:
> 
> geolocat...@netflix.com
> 
>> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018, 7:41 AM John Lightfoot  wrote:
>> 
>> If your IP range includes an ipv6 tunnel, Netflix blocks it thinking it's
>> a vpn.  You need to block the ipv6 routes to Netflix and force it to fall
>> back to ipv4.
>> 
>> On 1/6/18, 2:19 AM, "NANOG on behalf of Gary E. Miller" <
>> nanog-boun...@nanog.org on behalf of g...@rellim.com> wrote:
>> 
>>Yo All!
>> 
>>Sorry to bother, but...
>> 
>>Netflis is blocking my IP range.  1st line support useless.  Months and
>>can not reah anyone with a clue.  Anyone got a Netflix contact?
>> 
>>RGDS
>>GARY
>> 
>> ---
>>Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97703
>> 
>>g...@rellim.com  Tel:+1 541 382 8588
>> 
>>Veritas liberabit vos. -- Quid est veritas?
>>"If you can’t measure it, you can’t improve it." - Lord Kelvin
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: ✘Netflix

[Michael Crapse]

geolocat...@netflix.com

On Sat, Jan 6, 2018, 7:41 AM John Lightfoot  wrote:

> If your IP range includes an ipv6 tunnel, Netflix blocks it thinking it's
> a vpn.  You need to block the ipv6 routes to Netflix and force it to fall
> back to ipv4.
>
> On 1/6/18, 2:19 AM, "NANOG on behalf of Gary E. Miller" <
> nanog-boun...@nanog.org on behalf of g...@rellim.com> wrote:
>
> Yo All!
>
> Sorry to bother, but...
>
> Netflis is blocking my IP range.  1st line support useless.  Months and
> can not reah anyone with a clue.  Anyone got a Netflix contact?
>
> RGDS
> GARY
>
> ---
> Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97703
> 
> g...@rellim.com  Tel:+1 541 382 8588
>
> Veritas liberabit vos. -- Quid est veritas?
> "If you can’t measure it, you can’t improve it." - Lord Kelvin
>
>
>
>

Level 3 IRR

[Mike Hammett]

I've tried an assortment of e-mail addresses for Level 3 and LightCore (the ASN 
that placed the entry, conveniently now all under the same roof) to get a 
record removed from their IRR. I appreciate any good contacts offline. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

Re: ✘Netflix

[John Lightfoot]

If your IP range includes an ipv6 tunnel, Netflix blocks it thinking it's a 
vpn.  You need to block the ipv6 routes to Netflix and force it to fall back to 
ipv4.

On 1/6/18, 2:19 AM, "NANOG on behalf of Gary E. Miller" 
 wrote:

Yo All!

Sorry to bother, but...

Netflis is blocking my IP range.  1st line support useless.  Months and
can not reah anyone with a clue.  Anyone got a Netflix contact?

RGDS
GARY
---
Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97703
g...@rellim.com  Tel:+1 541 382 8588

Veritas liberabit vos. -- Quid est veritas?
"If you can’t measure it, you can’t improve it." - Lord Kelvin

Re: Attacks from poneytelecom.eu

[Radu-Adrian Feurdean]

On Fri, Jan 5, 2018, at 00:34, Stephen Satchell wrote:
> On 01/04/2018 01:02 PM, Dan Hollis wrote:
> > when the first tier incompetence stops, the direct contacts will stop too.
> 
> But, but, but...when the first tier support person gets the training to 
> not be incompetent, he is promoted to the second tier and the vacuum is 
> filled with another incompetent first-tier person.
> 
> So, by definition, the first tier of support will only be able to answer 
> questions "from the book".  Anything more complex than what's in "the 
> book" is bumped to the second tier...where the problem is above the 
> second-tier pay grade and it gets bumped further up the chain.

Yes and no. 

You need to have a good "script" for the first-level support, and then you need 
to have people that understand what they are trying to do: take the information 
from the requester, do minimal (ideally script-defined) checks, run through it 
the script, then either fix (and confirm that it's fixed) or escalate.

For smaller business structures, you may seriously loosen the script and go as 
far as require that people answering the phone or treating the support queue 
have an understanding of everything that the company does and how it does it. 
This does not scale. You cannot expect this for companies with more than (10s 
of) thousands of customers. You cannot expect to only have technically 
competent people to handle 100s or 1000s of tickets per day. 

Then you compare this with contacting directly someone that only receives a few 
requests a week because he/she is usually doing something else. That's 
obviously more effective as long as:
 - the person in question is still in a position to help or at least to 
escalate/forward properly
 - the person in question is still willing to help
 - the person in question is not flooded with requests impacting his/her normal 
duties, in which case the willingness to help may decrease to zero (or even 
make sure that a direct contact is counter-productive).

Particularly for abuse management, thinks are a little more complex. 
Arbitration needs to be done between what you (the requestor) think is abuse, 
what the provider thinks about it, what the customer thinks about it, what the 
laws says and what does the contract/T&C/AUP says about it (and about how to 
deal with it). This may take time, involve non-technical persons and may not 
give the expected outcome even when dealt with by a good-faith service provider.

Re: Attacks from poneytelecom.eu

[Radu-Adrian Feurdean]

On Thu, Jan 4, 2018, at 06:46, Tim Burke wrote:
> AS12876 is online.net... home of the €2.99 physical server, perfect for 
> all of your favorite illegitimate activity. I’m curious how much traffic 
> originates from that ASN that is actually legitimate... probably close 
> to none. 

For you, in US, probably not so much, but you should really check.
For us, here in France, Online is one of the 2 top hosting providers (they even 
have several neutral datacenters where they lease racks/cages/datarooms) with a 
quite enough of legitimate traffic. I say enough, since 10's of MBps of traffic 
to classic (locally) well-known sites is easily hidden by spikes due to file 
transfer (they are also popular here for hosting private off-site backups - 
they actually even have an archiving service) or bittorrent.

I also saw a mention of Iliad, their parent company, stock-listed (ILD on 
EuroNext Paris), as "buletproof hosting". You should note that they also own 
one of the top 4 ISPs here in France and one of the 4 frequence-owning mobile 
operators. But those run each on separate networks.

One should probably do some minimal research on non-US companies before 
accusing.

PS: No, I don't work for them. Just happen to be personally a customer of 3 of 
the Iliad-owned companies (Online.net being one of them).

RE: Any experience with Broadcom ICOS out there?

[Edwin Pers]

I've got a few older quanta switches still around, they're running a fairly old 
version of Broadcom's Fastpath software on top of vxworks 5.x. 
Fastpath runs ospf and ospfv3 just fine, exports sflow, makes the hardware do 
everything you'd expect a l3 switch to do. The CLI is kinda quirky, but it 
works.
I'm not sure how much they've changed since then, but from what I understand 
the software is mainly just a reference spec to go along with the reference 
hardware designs you can get from Broadcom. Then the company 
designing/manufacturing the actual switch could/would build something on top 
that, tailored to any customizations beyond the ref design they added.
Haven't had any problems with them, although the documentation Quanta provided 
was almost useless - par for the course with them from what I've heard..

-Original Message-
From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Holloway
Sent: Friday, January 5, 2018 4:47 PM
To: joel jaeggli ; NANOG list 
Subject: Re: Any experience with Broadcom ICOS out there?

Thank you everyone for the responses so far; I should probably re-phrase the 
question at this point ...

Has anyone had production experience with Broadcom ICOS and the features it 
claims to support? Positive or negative?