Re: 5G roadblock: labor

[Mark Tinka]

On 30/Dec/19 09:12, Christopher Morrow wrote:

> Huh, you mean since you have to deploy a tower/unit every ~100 meters
> to get 5g to actually work at reasonable speeds (with nothing in the
> line of sight) you're going to need a bunch more people to put up
> these new things-ma-bobs?

In my neighborhood, I've been noticing scanty investment in expanding 4G
from my mobile provider in the last 2 years or, ever since they launched
VoWiFi.

Even though I live in a reasonably well-to-do suburb, anytime I am off
the wi-fi at home, but in the hood, 4G performance is not that great,
and I sometimes get downgraded to 3G or even EDGE, depending on which
side of the house I am. Performance is significantly better if I am
around commercial buildings/neighborhoods, though.

My theory is that due to the growth of FTTH in the last 2 - 3 years in
major South African cities, mobile carriers (well, mine, anyway) are
relying on VoWiFi to deliver their (voice and SMS) services to you in
their home, where they are using your FTTH service for the workload,
getting you to push data off their network, and spending more of their
cash elsewhere (or not at all).

You should see what happens when the neighborhood has a power outage.
You still get 75% - 100% radio quality with 4G, but 80% packet loss when
you try to connect to the Internet.

At least in residential areas, I think my mobile provider is offloading
their costs to home owners' FTTH services, while still milking us of
decent wedge.

This does not give me any hope of them spending real time and effort on
5G. To be fair, I wouldn't blame them either.

Mark.

Re: 5G roadblock: labor

[Christopher Morrow]

On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 5:50 PM Michael Thomas  wrote:
>
> An interesting article on the road to 5G that they need to about double
> the size of the workforce to roll it out. I expect that this affects
> some of you directly.

Huh, you mean since you have to deploy a tower/unit every ~100 meters
to get 5g to actually work at reasonable speeds (with nothing in the
line of sight) you're going to need a bunch more people to put up
these new things-ma-bobs?

shocking news.

Re: Iran cuts 95% of Internet traffic

[Christopher Morrow]

On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 6:02 PM Keith Medcalf  wrote:
>
>
> Why would anyone with anything important to say use somethingmail.com
>
> Somethingmail.com is not e-mail.  It is a Giggle Gaggle Google thing.

huh what?
;; ANSWER SECTION:
somethingmail.com. 86400 IN MX 10 mail.somethingmail.com.

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
somethingmail.com. 172795 IN NS ns2.allnotrisk.com.
somethingmail.com. 172795 IN NS ns1.allnotrisk.com.
somethingmail.com. 172795 IN NS ns4.allnotrisk.com.
somethingmail.com. 172795 IN NS ns3.allnotrisk.com.


>
> --
> The fact that there's a Highway to Hell but only a Stairway to Heaven says a 
> lot about anticipated traffic volume.
>
> >-Original Message-
> >From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Scott Weeks
> >Sent: Sunday, 29 December, 2019 15:38
> >To: nanog@nanog.org
> >Subject: Re: Iran cuts 95% of Internet traffic
> >
> >
> >
> >--- jhellent...@dataix.net wrote:
> >From: "J. Hellenthal" 
> >
> >Yeah sorry to say any email list or not is going to be one
> >of the things that are not going to get through unless ...
> >you’ve taken extra measures to circumvent that.
> >
> >Personally, email would be the easiest to block behind
> >riuting.
> >---
> >
> >
> >After I sent the email I started to realize I likely
> >misunderstood.  I hesitated to correct that to the list,
> >but here I go. :)
> >
> >
> >> queues can be written to media, physically transported
> >> in/out, and then injected either into an internal or
> >> external network seamlessly modulo the time delay.
> >
> >I believe he meant similar to *nix boxes where you could
> >just copy the files in $HOME/mail (or where ever it is)
> >onto media and once the data is out of the country it can
> >be copied onto another mail system's $HOME/mail and then
> >shared with the unblocked part of the internet.  Not a
> >user account on somethingmail.com, but rather the entire
> >$HOME/mail of all accounts and mailed to someone else who
> >is somewhere else on a regular basis.  Also, the reverse
> >path for receiving mail in the repressive country.
> >
> >A good idea either way.  KISS works. :)
> >
> >scott
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> > J. Hellenthal
> >
> >The fact that there's a highway to Hell but only a stairway to Heaven
> >says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.
> >
> >> On Dec 29, 2019, at 15:57, Scott Weeks  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> :: If you're trying to get information in/out of a
> >> :: society that is raising network barriers to
> >> :: realtime communication, then you need methods
> >> :: that don't rely on a network and aren't realtime.
> >>
> >>
> >> This is a great idea, but 99.9% of folks use GUI
> >> email. :-(
> >>
> >> scott
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- r...@gsp.org wrote:
> >>
> >> From: Rich Kulawiec 
> >> To: nanog@nanog.org
> >> Subject: Re: Iran cuts 95% of Internet traffic
> >> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2019 09:11:23 -0500
> >>
> >>
> >> And this is why, despite all the disdainful remarks labeling such
> >> things as "antiquated", mailing lists and Usenet newsgroups are vastly
> >> superior to web sites/message boards/et.al. when it comes to
> >facilitating
> >> many-to-many communications between people.  Why?  Well, there are many
> >> reasons, but one of the applicable ones in this use case is that their
> >> queues can be written to media, physically transported in/out, and then
> >> injected either into an internal or external network seamlessly modulo
> >the
> >> time delay.  And because the computing resources required to handle
> >this
> >> are in any laptop or desktop made in the last decade, probably earlier.
> >>
> >> If you're trying to get information in/out of a society that is raising
> >> network barriers to realtime communication, then you need methods that
> >> don't rely on a network and aren't realtime.
> >>
> >> ---rsk
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
>

Re: 5G roadblock: labor

[Mark Tinka]

On 30/Dec/19 00:49, Michael Thomas wrote:
>
> https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/29/big-barrier-trump-5g-america-089883
>
>
> An interesting article on the road to 5G that they need to about
> double the size of the workforce to roll it out. I expect that this
> affects some of you directly.
>
> But one of its premises seems a little shaky to me: has the US ever
> led the pack rolling out new network technology? I always thought it
> was Japan and South Korea that were years ahead of us. In silicon
> valley and SF it's still very rare to see FTTH. I'm not sure why we
> would expect to get to 5G any faster than we normally do.

Personally, I'm skeptical about major 5G investment at scale.

This is one of those "time will tell" situations.

I mean, we aren't struggling for 4G/LTE performance, and in my mind, 5G
was developed when fibre was probably less perverse, from a global
standpoint. Times have changed a tad since then.

Mark.

Re: ServiceFinder: Ärendenummer 185392

[Ross Tajvar]

I've been getting these too. It'd be nice if the admins could unsubscribe
these people.

On Sun, Dec 29, 2019, 5:26 PM J. Hellenthal via NANOG 
wrote:

> Well if that ain’t just plain spam I don’t know what is!
>
> --
>  J. Hellenthal
>
> The fact that there's a highway to Hell but only a stairway to Heaven says
> a lot about anticipated traffic volume.
>
> On Dec 29, 2019, at 16:18, i...@servicefinder.com wrote:
>
> 
> __
> Vänligen skriv endast ovanför denna markering när du svarar på meddelandet.
> Hej Scott Weeks,
> Tack för din fråga!
>
> Vi har nu registrerat ditt ärende och du kommer inom kort att bli
> kontaktad av oss på Kundservice.
>
> Du kan också få hjälp själv via vårt Support Center på
> www.support.servicefinder.se. 
>
> Du har ärendenummer *185392* – och alla våra ärenden hanteras i den
> turordning som de kommer in.
>
> Vi kontaktar dig så snart vi bara kan, din fråga är viktig för oss.
>
> Ha en fortsatt bra dag,
> --
>
>
> Med vänliga hälsningar
> *Kundservice*
>
> Öppettider: Vardagar 9-17 | Växel: 08-653 00 00 <+468653>
> Hemsida: www.servicefinder.se [image: ServiceFinder.se]
> --
>
> Detta meddelande skickades till sur...@mauigateway.com med hänvisning
> till ärende 185392.
> [[a6e862e24e9f255dfb1e2e9c14f288dfee770f40-1483209862]]
>
>

RE: Iran cuts 95% of Internet traffic

[Keith Medcalf]

Why would anyone with anything important to say use somethingmail.com

Somethingmail.com is not e-mail.  It is a Giggle Gaggle Google thing.

--
The fact that there's a Highway to Hell but only a Stairway to Heaven says a 
lot about anticipated traffic volume.

>-Original Message-
>From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Scott Weeks
>Sent: Sunday, 29 December, 2019 15:38
>To: nanog@nanog.org
>Subject: Re: Iran cuts 95% of Internet traffic
>
>
>
>--- jhellent...@dataix.net wrote:
>From: "J. Hellenthal" 
>
>Yeah sorry to say any email list or not is going to be one
>of the things that are not going to get through unless ...
>you’ve taken extra measures to circumvent that.
>
>Personally, email would be the easiest to block behind
>riuting.
>---
>
>
>After I sent the email I started to realize I likely
>misunderstood.  I hesitated to correct that to the list,
>but here I go. :)
>
>
>> queues can be written to media, physically transported
>> in/out, and then injected either into an internal or
>> external network seamlessly modulo the time delay.
>
>I believe he meant similar to *nix boxes where you could
>just copy the files in $HOME/mail (or where ever it is)
>onto media and once the data is out of the country it can
>be copied onto another mail system's $HOME/mail and then
>shared with the unblocked part of the internet.  Not a
>user account on somethingmail.com, but rather the entire
>$HOME/mail of all accounts and mailed to someone else who
>is somewhere else on a regular basis.  Also, the reverse
>path for receiving mail in the repressive country.
>
>A good idea either way.  KISS works. :)
>
>scott
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--
> J. Hellenthal
>
>The fact that there's a highway to Hell but only a stairway to Heaven
>says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.
>
>> On Dec 29, 2019, at 15:57, Scott Weeks  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> :: If you're trying to get information in/out of a
>> :: society that is raising network barriers to
>> :: realtime communication, then you need methods
>> :: that don't rely on a network and aren't realtime.
>>
>>
>> This is a great idea, but 99.9% of folks use GUI
>> email. :-(
>>
>> scott
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- r...@gsp.org wrote:
>>
>> From: Rich Kulawiec 
>> To: nanog@nanog.org
>> Subject: Re: Iran cuts 95% of Internet traffic
>> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2019 09:11:23 -0500
>>
>>
>> And this is why, despite all the disdainful remarks labeling such
>> things as "antiquated", mailing lists and Usenet newsgroups are vastly
>> superior to web sites/message boards/et.al. when it comes to
>facilitating
>> many-to-many communications between people.  Why?  Well, there are many
>> reasons, but one of the applicable ones in this use case is that their
>> queues can be written to media, physically transported in/out, and then
>> injected either into an internal or external network seamlessly modulo
>the
>> time delay.  And because the computing resources required to handle
>this
>> are in any laptop or desktop made in the last decade, probably earlier.
>>
>> If you're trying to get information in/out of a society that is raising
>> network barriers to realtime communication, then you need methods that
>> don't rely on a network and aren't realtime.
>>
>> ---rsk
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: Iran cuts 95% of Internet traffic

[Karl Auer]

On Sun, 2019-12-29 at 16:16 -0600, J. Hellenthal via NANOG wrote:
> Personally, email would be the easiest to block behind riuting.

"Give me ssh and an open port and I shall tell the world"
  - Archimedes, circa 250 BC

Of course, he'd still need a network.

I think the point about email is that it is inherently store-and-
forward, so it can relatively easily be moved off a network, stored,
moved by other means, and put back on a (possibly different) network. 

Regards, K.

-- 
~~~
Karl Auer (ka...@biplane.com.au)
http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer
http://twitter.com/kauer389

GPG fingerprint: 8D08 9CAA 649A AFEF E862 062A 2E97 42D4 A2A0 616D
Old fingerprint: A0CD 28F0 10BE FC21 C57C 67C1 19A6 83A4 9B0B 1D75

5G roadblock: labor

[Michael Thomas]

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/29/big-barrier-trump-5g-america-089883

An interesting article on the road to 5G that they need to about double 
the size of the workforce to roll it out. I expect that this affects 
some of you directly.


But one of its premises seems a little shaky to me: has the US ever led 
the pack rolling out new network technology? I always thought it was 
Japan and South Korea that were years ahead of us. In silicon valley and 
SF it's still very rare to see FTTH. I'm not sure why we would expect to 
get to 5G any faster than we normally do.


Mike

Re: Iran cuts 95% of Internet traffic

[Scott Weeks]

--- jhellent...@dataix.net wrote:
From: "J. Hellenthal" 

Yeah sorry to say any email list or not is going to be one 
of the things that are not going to get through unless ... 
you’ve taken extra measures to circumvent that.

Personally, email would be the easiest to block behind 
riuting.
---


After I sent the email I started to realize I likely 
misunderstood.  I hesitated to correct that to the list, 
but here I go. :)


> queues can be written to media, physically transported 
> in/out, and then injected either into an internal or 
> external network seamlessly modulo the time delay.

I believe he meant similar to *nix boxes where you could 
just copy the files in $HOME/mail (or where ever it is) 
onto media and once the data is out of the country it can 
be copied onto another mail system's $HOME/mail and then 
shared with the unblocked part of the internet.  Not a 
user account on somethingmail.com, but rather the entire 
$HOME/mail of all accounts and mailed to someone else who 
is somewhere else on a regular basis.  Also, the reverse 
path for receiving mail in the repressive country.

A good idea either way.  KISS works. :)

scott
















-- 
 J. Hellenthal

The fact that there's a highway to Hell but only a stairway to Heaven says a 
lot about anticipated traffic volume.

> On Dec 29, 2019, at 15:57, Scott Weeks  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> :: If you're trying to get information in/out of a 
> :: society that is raising network barriers to 
> :: realtime communication, then you need methods 
> :: that don't rely on a network and aren't realtime.
> 
> 
> This is a great idea, but 99.9% of folks use GUI
> email. :-(
> 
> scott
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- r...@gsp.org wrote:
> 
> From: Rich Kulawiec 
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: Iran cuts 95% of Internet traffic
> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2019 09:11:23 -0500
> 
> 
> And this is why, despite all the disdainful remarks labeling such
> things as "antiquated", mailing lists and Usenet newsgroups are vastly
> superior to web sites/message boards/et.al. when it comes to facilitating
> many-to-many communications between people.  Why?  Well, there are many
> reasons, but one of the applicable ones in this use case is that their
> queues can be written to media, physically transported in/out, and then
> injected either into an internal or external network seamlessly modulo the
> time delay.  And because the computing resources required to handle this
> are in any laptop or desktop made in the last decade, probably earlier.
> 
> If you're trying to get information in/out of a society that is raising
> network barriers to realtime communication, then you need methods that
> don't rely on a network and aren't realtime.
> 
> ---rsk
> 
> 
> 

Re: ServiceFinder: Ärendenummer 185392

[J. Hellenthal via NANOG]

Well if that ain’t just plain spam I don’t know what is!

-- 
 J. Hellenthal

The fact that there's a highway to Hell but only a stairway to Heaven says a 
lot about anticipated traffic volume.

> On Dec 29, 2019, at 16:18, i...@servicefinder.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Vänligen skriv endast ovanför denna markering när du svarar på meddelandet. 
> Hej Scott Weeks, 
> Tack för din fråga!
> 
> Vi har nu registrerat ditt ärende och du kommer inom kort att bli kontaktad 
> av oss på Kundservice.
> 
> Du kan också få hjälp själv via vårt Support Center på 
> www.support.servicefinder.se.
> 
> Du har ärendenummer 185392 – och alla våra ärenden hanteras i den turordning 
> som de kommer in.
> 
> Vi kontaktar dig så snart vi bara kan, din fråga är viktig för oss.
> 
> Ha en fortsatt bra dag,
> --
> Med vänliga hälsningar
> Kundservice
> Öppettider: Vardagar 9-17 | Växel: 08-653 00 00
> Hemsida: www.servicefinder.se 
> --
> Detta meddelande skickades till sur...@mauigateway.com med hänvisning till 
> ärende 185392.
> [[a6e862e24e9f255dfb1e2e9c14f288dfee770f40-1483209862]]


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: Iran cuts 95% of Internet traffic

[J. Hellenthal via NANOG]

Yeah sorry to say any email list or not is going to be one of the things that 
are not going to get through unless ... you’ve taken extra measures to 
circumvent that.

Personally, email would be the easiest to block behind riuting.

-- 
 J. Hellenthal

The fact that there's a highway to Hell but only a stairway to Heaven says a 
lot about anticipated traffic volume.

> On Dec 29, 2019, at 15:57, Scott Weeks  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> :: If you're trying to get information in/out of a 
> :: society that is raising network barriers to 
> :: realtime communication, then you need methods 
> :: that don't rely on a network and aren't realtime.
> 
> 
> This is a great idea, but 99.9% of folks use GUI
> email. :-(
> 
> scott
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- r...@gsp.org wrote:
> 
> From: Rich Kulawiec 
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: Iran cuts 95% of Internet traffic
> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2019 09:11:23 -0500
> 
> 
> And this is why, despite all the disdainful remarks labeling such
> things as "antiquated", mailing lists and Usenet newsgroups are vastly
> superior to web sites/message boards/et.al. when it comes to facilitating
> many-to-many communications between people.  Why?  Well, there are many
> reasons, but one of the applicable ones in this use case is that their
> queues can be written to media, physically transported in/out, and then
> injected either into an internal or external network seamlessly modulo the
> time delay.  And because the computing resources required to handle this
> are in any laptop or desktop made in the last decade, probably earlier.
> 
> If you're trying to get information in/out of a society that is raising
> network barriers to realtime communication, then you need methods that
> don't rely on a network and aren't realtime.
> 
> ---rsk
> 
> 
> 


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: Iran cuts 95% of Internet traffic

[Scott Weeks]

:: If you're trying to get information in/out of a 
:: society that is raising network barriers to 
:: realtime communication, then you need methods 
:: that don't rely on a network and aren't realtime.


This is a great idea, but 99.9% of folks use GUI
email. :-(

scott




--- r...@gsp.org wrote:

From: Rich Kulawiec 
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Iran cuts 95% of Internet traffic
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2019 09:11:23 -0500


And this is why, despite all the disdainful remarks labeling such
things as "antiquated", mailing lists and Usenet newsgroups are vastly
superior to web sites/message boards/et.al. when it comes to facilitating
many-to-many communications between people.  Why?  Well, there are many
reasons, but one of the applicable ones in this use case is that their
queues can be written to media, physically transported in/out, and then
injected either into an internal or external network seamlessly modulo the
time delay.  And because the computing resources required to handle this
are in any laptop or desktop made in the last decade, probably earlier.

If you're trying to get information in/out of a society that is raising
network barriers to realtime communication, then you need methods that
don't rely on a network and aren't realtime.

---rsk

Re: Iran cuts 95% of Internet traffic

[Rich Kulawiec]

And this is why, despite all the disdainful remarks labeling such
things as "antiquated", mailing lists and Usenet newsgroups are vastly
superior to web sites/message boards/et.al. when it comes to facilitating
many-to-many communications between people.  Why?  Well, there are many
reasons, but one of the applicable ones in this use case is that their
queues can be written to media, physically transported in/out, and then
injected either into an internal or external network seamlessly modulo the
time delay.  And because the computing resources required to handle this
are in any laptop or desktop made in the last decade, probably earlier.

If you're trying to get information in/out of a society that is raising
network barriers to realtime communication, then you need methods that
don't rely on a network and aren't realtime.

---rsk