Re: SaoPaolo to Frankfurt

[d...@darwincosta.com]

> On 13 Jul 2020, at 17:17, Rubens Kuhl  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 12:01 PM Mark Tinka  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On 12/Jul/20 17:19, Rubens Kuhl wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Alternative routes before EllaLink comes into operation would be one of the 
>>> Brazil-Africa cables (one to Cameroon, the other to Angola) and then to 
>>> Europe. 
>> 
>> Are you talking about SAex?
>> 
>> There is SACS as well.
>> 
> 
> Brazil-Angola cable is SACS, which for an European route would be paired with 
> WACS to go from Angola to Portugal. 
> Brazil-Cameroon cable is SAIL, which to get to Europe would be paired with 
> ACE to go from Cameroon to Portugal or France. 

Correct. 
> 
> 
> Rubens
Darwin-.
>  

Re: Anyone running C-Data OLTs?

[Mark Tinka]

On 13/Jul/20 17:33, Mike Hammett wrote:
> Fiscal and logistic reasons, would be my guess.

Nick was being facetious :-).

Mark.

Re: Anyone running C-Data OLTs?

[Mike Hammett]

Fiscal and logistic reasons, would be my guess. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Nick Hilliard"  
To: "Mark Tinka"  
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 10:25:20 AM 
Subject: Re: Anyone running C-Data OLTs? 

Mark Tinka wrote on 13/07/2020 16:03: 
> Still don't know what "third world" means (of course I do...), but 

Obviously he means countries like Sweden, Ireland and Switzerland. 

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World#/media/File:Cold_War_alliances_mid-1975.svg
>  

It's not clear why there's any relationship between third world status 
and the choice of PON/active FTTP equipment used in 2020. Or maybe 
there's some subtlety that being lost here. Hard to tell. 

Nick 

Re: Anyone running C-Data OLTs?

[Mark Tinka]

On 13/Jul/20 17:25, Nick Hilliard wrote:

>
> Obviously he means countries like Sweden, Ireland and Switzerland.
>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World#/media/File:Cold_War_alliances_mid-1975.svg
>>
>
> It's not clear why there's any relationship between third world status
> and the choice of PON/active FTTP equipment used in 2020.  Or maybe
> there's some subtlety that being lost here.  Hard to tell.

:-).

Mark.

Re: Anyone running C-Data OLTs?

[Nick Hilliard]

Mark Tinka wrote on 13/07/2020 16:03:

Still don't know what "third world" means (of course I do...), but


Obviously he means countries like Sweden, Ireland and Switzerland.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World#/media/File:Cold_War_alliances_mid-1975.svg


It's not clear why there's any relationship between third world status 
and the choice of PON/active FTTP equipment used in 2020.  Or maybe 
there's some subtlety that being lost here.  Hard to tell.


Nick

Re: SaoPaolo to Frankfurt

[Mark Tinka]

On 13/Jul/20 17:16, Rubens Kuhl wrote:

>
> Brazil-Angola cable is SACS, which for an European route would be
> paired with WACS to go from Angola to Portugal. 
> Brazil-Cameroon cable is SAIL, which to get to Europe would be paired
> with ACE to go from Cameroon to Portugal or France.

WACS is also an option out of Limbe.

Naturally, the trick will be finding out which operators have capacity
on this combination of cables, for the OP.

Best place to start would be to ask the consortium members.

Mark.

Re: SaoPaolo to Frankfurt

[Rubens Kuhl]

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 12:01 PM Mark Tinka  wrote:

>
>
> On 12/Jul/20 17:19, Rubens Kuhl wrote:
>
>
>
> Alternative routes before EllaLink comes into operation would be one of
> the Brazil-Africa cables (one to Cameroon, the other to Angola) and then to
> Europe.
>
>
> Are you talking about SAex?
>
> There is SACS as well.
>
>
Brazil-Angola cable is SACS, which for an European route would be paired
with WACS to go from Angola to Portugal.
Brazil-Cameroon cable is SAIL, which to get to Europe would be paired with
ACE to go from Cameroon to Portugal or France.


Rubens

Re: SaoPaolo to Frankfurt

[Mark Tinka]

On 13/Jul/20 16:23, Nick Hilliard wrote:

>  
> 160gbit/sec split over a standard 80ch itu dwdm grid sounds like
> 2gbit/sec per channel (although there are more efficient options than
> the standard itu grid).  This sounds like it's seriously not worth it
> for today's bandwidth requirements, which might explain why it's only
> viable for voice traffic.

One of the few applications where you wouldn't mind running a
vendor-specific technology :-).

Mark.

Re: SaoPaolo to Frankfurt

[Mark Tinka]

On 13/Jul/20 15:41, Colin Stanners (lists) wrote:
>
> Looking at the Wikipedia article, it claims that  Atlantis-2 “can
> already be upgraded with current technology to 160Gbit/s”. Would be
> interesting why that wasn’t already done on this 20-year-old cable –
> assuming that the underground infrastructure (repeaters) are
> compatible with the newer modulations (or additional wavelengths, but
> that would have necessitated much more design), the upgrade cost
> should be small compared to the cable’s value.
>

There is only so far you can upgrade 20-year old repeaters until
considering to replace all of them across the full length of the current
system makes building a new system a simpler option.

Repeaters aren't cheap, and you'd need more over a shorter interval
distance to increase capacity, or deploy current generation ones to
minimize cost without sacrificing ultimate capacity.

Mark.

Re: Anyone running C-Data OLTs?

[Mark Tinka]

On 12/Jul/20 23:43, J. Hellenthal via NANOG wrote:
> Almost no surprise they are all third world, still scary in a sense.
> Might just have to rethink a blacklist strategy for traffic
> originating behind those locations.

Still don't know what "third world" means (of course I do...), but
looking at what the guy in the top seat in America is doing, we are as
equally concerned about kit coming out of there as we are coming out of
anywhere else.

I will say that where we once had confidence that the traditional
vendors had us in their best interests, that trust level is not
automatically the same in 2020.

Mark.

Re: SaoPaolo to Frankfurt

[Mark Tinka]

On 12/Jul/20 17:19, Rubens Kuhl wrote:

>
>
> Alternative routes before EllaLink comes into operation would be one
> of the Brazil-Africa cables (one to Cameroon, the other to Angola) and
> then to Europe.

Are you talking about SAex?

There is SACS as well.

Mark.

Re: SaoPaolo to Frankfurt

[Mark Tinka]

On 12/Jul/20 17:05, Max Tulyev wrote:
>  
>
> I see there is only one undersea cable going directly from Brazil to
> Europe. Why?

Have you ever read a C&MA contract for a submarine cable build :-)?

Mark.

Re: 60ms cross continent

[Mark Tinka]

On 12/Jul/20 14:00, Paul Nash wrote:

> Not quite VSAT, but in the bad old SA days (pre-demicracy), I did some work 
> for a company that used a UK-based satellite provider for data to the client 
> (data was sent in the VBI), and dial-up for the traffic from the client.
>
> Still relied on a local provider for the dial-up, though, so could be 
> censored.

Yes, in these scenarios, we called the uplink the "back-channel" :-).
And it could be anything, including dial-up.

It was not uncommon to buy uplink via SCPC from one provider, and
downlink via DVB on an inclined orbit satellite from a totally different
provider. This was a very common model between 2000 - 2009, where your
uplink and downlink ISP's were vastly different.

And who says the Internet must be symmetric :-)?

Mark.

Re: Anyone running C-Data OLTs?

[Mark Tinka]

On 11/Jul/20 02:16, Brandon Martin wrote:
>  
> All of the part numbers I was able to find a description of (after
> sifting through the numerous pages copying the vulnerability
> disclosure) appeared to be low-cost, low- to mid-density pizza-box
> EPON OLTs.  I didn't see any ONUs, but then I also didn't find data on
> everything.
>
> I know a low of EPON deployments go for all-in-ones with the ONU,
> router, WLAN, etc. integrated into a single box presumably because
> it's cheaper for initial deployment than separate boxes for ONU and
> CPE router/AP.  No indication of those being affected in this notice,
> at least that I could find.

A number of vendors, these days, implement Active-E and GPON in the same
chassis, and you can decide what you want to run it as.

I recall Cisco picked up some company back around 2014 that gave them
this style of box in the ME4600. Not sure how it's doing nowadays.

Tejas do the same with their Ethernet boxes.

Mark.

Re: Anyone running C-Data OLTs?

[Mark Tinka]

On 11/Jul/20 00:22, Alexander Neilson wrote:
>
> For these to be internet exposed presumably they must be including a
> router function and not simply doing some bridging of customer traffic.

Well, if the attacker were able to find a way into your bastion host...

Mark.

Re: Anyone running C-Data OLTs?

[Mark Tinka]

On 10/Jul/20 18:58, Owen DeLong wrote:
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/backdoor-accounts-discovered-in-29-ftth-devices-from-chinese-vendor-c-data/?ftag=TRE-03-10aaa6b&bhid=29077120342825113007211255328545&mid=12920625&cid=2211510872
>
>
> Wow… Just wow.

And unlike routers, switches (and OLT's) don't seem to get as much love
re: vulnerability software upgrades with operators, despite the vendors
putting our code often enough (C-Data notwithstanding, of course).

Mark.

Re: SaoPaolo to Frankfurt

[Nick Hilliard]

Colin Stanners (lists) wrote on 13/07/2020 14:41:
Looking at the Wikipedia article, it claims that  Atlantis-2 “can 
already be upgraded with current technology to 160Gbit/s”. Would be 
interesting why that wasn’t already done on this 20-year-old cable – 
assuming that the underground infrastructure (repeaters) are compatible 
with the newer modulations (or additional wavelengths, but that would 
have necessitated much more design), the upgrade cost should be small 
compared to the cable’s value.


160gbit/sec split over a standard 80ch itu dwdm grid sounds like 
2gbit/sec per channel (although there are more efficient options than 
the standard itu grid).  This sounds like it's seriously not worth it 
for today's bandwidth requirements, which might explain why it's only 
viable for voice traffic.


Nick

RE: SaoPaolo to Frankfurt

[Colin Stanners (lists)]

Looking at the Wikipedia article, it claims that  Atlantis-2 “can already be 
upgraded with current technology to 160Gbit/s”. Would be interesting why that 
wasn’t already done on this 20-year-old cable – assuming that the underground 
infrastructure (repeaters) are compatible with the newer modulations (or 
additional wavelengths, but that would have necessitated much more design), the 
upgrade cost should be small compared to the cable’s value.

 

From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces+colin-lists=highspeedcrow...@nanog.org] On 
Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 10:19 AM
Cc: Nanog 
Subject: Re: SaoPaolo to Frankfurt

 

 

 

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 12:06 PM Max Tulyev mailto:max...@netassist.ua> > wrote:

Hi All!

Who can provide a VLAN from SaoPaolo to Frankfurt for remote IX.BR 
  
participation? Please contact me off-list.

I see there is only one undersea cable going directly from Brazil to 
Europe. Why?

 

And this single cable, Atlantis-2, has very little capacity so its usage is 
mostly voice traffic. 

There is a new cable in construction called EllaLink (https://ella.link/) that 
when installed will add plenty of capacity to this route, but most Brazil - 
Germany traffic goes thru the US nowadays. 

 

Alternative routes before EllaLink comes into operation would be one of the 
Brazil-Africa cables (one to Cameroon, the other to Angola) and then to Europe. 

 

 

Rubens